Kasey,

That was beautiful! Truly.

Kasey1,

I get the impression from your post that if my wife and I have SF every night, the rest of our lives have no meaning. You even seem to imply that the SF has no meaning.

I do agree it has to be mutual. Doesn't anyone know what it means to be SF frustrated? To do everything you can for you spouse and not get that EN met?

I don't know what else to write. I seem to be out of sync with everyone else, and I don't know how to explain myself.

RAG,

I get where you are coming from, I just have never experienced it. But I for one am taking notes, because if I am ever married, it is going to be a great marriage.

I am getting a lot out of this discussion, and I am alone. Not very often that we get views on this subject from people in a decent, helpful way like this. Atleast I don't, because I don't know anyone in my real life who is in a good marriage.

In the movie "Where the Rivers Run North" Rip Torn tells his SO that he will never be in financial debt and that that is akin to being married to a woman who won't have sex with you. And I think he meant also who won't have sex with you enough to make you feel loved and content.

I think it is an important topic. I wish I had known these things before my relationship went to pot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RAG:
Kasey1,

I get the impression from your post that if my wife and I have SF every night, the rest of our lives have no meaning. You even seem to imply that the SF has no meaning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">easy big fella. don't go ballastic on me. don't read implications and things into what I said. I am sharing a perspective which is simply my own and that is all. I know that for me, there was a time when it meant alot to me to get inside her alot. I also know that there came a point for me where it lost meaning because I wasn't inside the rest of her as much as i was getting inside that one part of her. all I'm saying is that somewhere there is a limit, a line which represents a point at which it means something and a point at which it ceases to mean as much. For me now every night would be too much. i don't know how old you are, I know I used to want it more often and really feel cheated if I didn't get it just like I wanted it. What can I tell you. i still like it but if I don't get it every night, for that matter if I don't get it every week it's not the same big deal it used to be. that may sound fearful but it really isn't. I've learned to appreciate other aspects of our relationship and a high frequency of SF is not as frustrating when it doesn't happen as it used to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I do agree it has to be mutual. Doesn't anyone know what it means to be SF frustrated? To do everything you can for you spouse and not get that EN met? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes I know how that is. I also know that my own ideas of what is a need and what is a want and what is a fantasy have evolved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I don't know what else to write. I seem to be out of sync with everyone else, and I don't know how to explain myself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think it takes alot more explaining. I think many people understand SF frustration. I know many people here do. i'm not implying you don't have a need. I get that you want validation for it. i hope you understand that my offering a differing perspective isn't necessarily an invalidation of the intensity you feel toward this. i'm not you and visa versa and that's ok. I think every man has been SF frustrated at least once in his life.

It's not that I need validation.

What I don't understand is why wives are not more enthusiacstic about having SF with their husbands if, as they say, they love their husbands.

PS: AT 65, I'm even older than JL!

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: RAG ]</small>

Some women do have sex with their husbands every day, or close to it.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Slapnuts ]</small>

I just came back to check on this thread. Octobergirl, I'm really sorry that this hit you hard. I wish that I could meet up with you for some power shopping and snacks! As for what your WS said about the high heels, that was plain dumb. If he knew that it would hurt your back to wear high heels, then it was insensitive. I'd be more upset about that. That's akin to my SIL (who is practically crippled in a wheelchair) to hear from her now ex-H, that he suddenly decided that he "likes legs on a woman, and would like to have children". OMG! How hurtful was that for her to bear?????? Horrible!

This thread amazed me with the turns that it took. RAG, I still think that you're nearly obsessed with the idea of getting all of your SF need met. It's nice to connect with the spouse when you BOTH want it, and I hope that she wants it as much as you do. You sound like those typical men I was talking about in Myrta's post, who whine when they don't get their SF needs met, and ya know what? Sorry, but they can't be met EVERY SINGLE time! We might be tired, or just not into it. We might be experiencing a DRYspell (if you catch my drift, and at your age, I hope you do!!). I'd say that if the spouse politely declines, then you should take matters into your own HANDS (catch my drift again??).

CC

Weaver,

I'm glad you are getting something out of this. Don't get me wrong, I have a wonderful marriage with my second wife. We have been together 20 years and married 19 years. It's just when she is not in the mood for a period of time, I feel like I'm only wanted for financial support.

If you want a horror story, I'll write you the story of my first marriage. It was 19.5 years of PTA (pain, torture, & agony).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RAG:
<strong> It's not that I need validation.

What I don't understand is why wives are not more enthusiacstic about having SF with their husbands if, as they say, they love their husbands.

PS: AT 65, I'm even older than JL! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, RAG.

There are almost as many women that ask the same question about their respective husbands. The difference for them is the misinformed idea that men are always the high drive partners in a relationship.

The answer to your question lies within the constraints of the relationship, i.e., the relationship is the issue, not the sex.

Non-physiological sexual dysfunction in a relationship is almost always a secondary byproduct of a failing relationship.

God Bless,
Gimble

Buttercup's qoute:

"This thread amazed me with the turns that it took. RAG, I still think that you're nearly obsessed with the idea of getting all of your SF need met."

I don't think I'm obsessed. I'm just curious.

"You sound like those typical men I was talking about in Myrta's post, who whine when they don't get their SF needs met, and ya know what? Sorry, but they can't be met EVERY SINGLE time!"

I'm not whining, I'm asking why can't they be met every single time, enthusiastically?


"We might be tired, or just not into it. We might be experiencing a DRYspell (if you catch my drift, and at your age, I hope you do!!). I'd say that if the spouse politely declines, then you should take matters into your own HANDS (catch my drift again??)."

I think I wrote before about medical reasons. I also know about the 10 days of being unclean.

Like I wrote before, I can't seem to explain myself.

The origional meaning of my question was: If you love your husbands like you say you do, why don't you want SF with him all the time?

This is not a obsession, not a whine, not a threat. I do not expect anyone to do things that are physically, mentally, or morally unsafe. It is just a question!

The one thing I notice from this...
Just because I LOVE YOU doesn't mean I am in the MOOD to have SF EVERY time you are.
I would try to be that way more often if that was one of your EN but to expect that because I LOVED you I could somehow hormonally CHANGE....is unreasonable.

Danielle

There have been times in my lifetime when I looked forward to daily SF or several times a day SF. I am currently in the middle of one of those streaks, though it seems to be less intense now.

1. After D-day on June 1, 2004 my wife Myrta became hyper-sexual and gave me daily SF for about one month. In fact five minutes after discovery she was ready to give SF. I also became hyper-sexual. It took about 48 hours, but I did.

2. When we 1st started to have SF in our youth we probably did it daily for many months until one day we skipped.

3. Then there were spurts here and there------- for a weekend or something like that.


I think it is all brain chemistry just as described by Helen Fisher. The funny thing is that some couples start six time a day when they 1st met and then five years later they do it once every two months. Check out the EN section of this forum where you find couples who do it once a year.

Manic depressives can have daily SF when they are manic and some have been known to drive their wives out of the house.

The great thing about women is that they can have SF without feeling motivated to do so. For men it is much harder to provide SF if they are not motivated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Buttercup:CC:
<strong> This thread amazed me with the turns that it took. RAG, I still think that you're nearly obsessed with the idea of getting all of your SF need met.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think your assessment of RAG is a disrepectful one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
It's nice to connect with the spouse when you BOTH want it, and I hope that she wants it as much as you do. You sound like those typical men I was talking about in Myrta's post, who whine when they don't get their SF needs met,
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And now we have expanded the insult onto the whole male gender. Are you aware of the fact that the sexual disparity in relationships impacts both men and women? In other words, women encounter problems associated with desiring sex from an unwilling spouse in about the same ratio as do men.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
and ya know what? Sorry, but they can't be met EVERY SINGLE time! We might be tired, or just not into it. We might be experiencing a DRYspell (if you catch my drift, and at your age, I hope you do!!). I'd say that if the spouse politely declines, then you should take matters into your own HANDS (catch my drift again??).
CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would you find it acceptable for a parent to defend not feeding their child regularly because the parent was tired or just not into it? Is it acceptable to call into work several days each week saying that you can't come in - just too tired and not into it? Regularly skip out on various volunteer commitments you might have made because [plug in standard excuse here].

If the answer to the above questions is no, then why is the marital relationship of less importance?

Wow..I'm just amazed at some of this....

And let's not compare things a person needs to live with things a person needs to be fullfilled (ie eating VS SF)

[quote]The great thing about women is that they can have SF without feeling motivated to do so. For men it is much harder to provide SF if they are not motivated.{/quote]

All I can say is....whooaaaaaa...

I'm backing out of this thread because I'm starting to feel a little insulted and objectified. My problem, I know...but I feel some folks here, whether they be men or women, might benefit from having a talk with a gynecologist and perhaps a psychiatrist who should be versed in both physical and mental conditions in combination.

RAG and others,

I have a story to share, I couldn't share it with my siblings because I was too afraid it would be disrespectful or cause embarassment I guess, so I will share it now.

After my parents died (both in their early 60's) we were cleaning out their bedroom and I found polaroids of my mom naked in the shower on top of my dad's gun cabinet. They had to have been fairly recent judging from her looks.

Now we had all found photos of my mom nude earlier, as a very young woman. My dad was a photo buff and had develped them himself. And they were more of a beautiful nature than anything else.

For me to find the later pictures they had makes me to this day very happy. I don't know it's like they still retained this great love and sexual connection, even in the midst of the hell they had been in for a few years.

I only showed my SIL, out of respect for the family didn't know if I should show the others. All the pictures have since been destroyed out of respect for my mother.

My point is, well I don't know really. But when two people can carry a beautiful, sexual, lifelong marriage to each other their entire lives, it really warms a heart.

Maddy,

I'm with you! Backing out now... Feeling totally offended as a woman and as a sexual partner.

RAG, sorry if I sounded offensive to you. Didn't mean to offend you OR your gender. Believe me, I know many men who don't put out sexually as much as their hyper-sexual wives want it! I've heard it both from men AND from women, so I'm not really slighting one gender.

Gamus (or whatever your name is--sorry I didn't double check it), you should run off with RAG since you're both in sync sexually. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

RAG, btw, I've had sex thousands of times during those "ten days" when I'm not "clean" as you put it. That's less offensive to me than having sex when I'm vaginally dry because I'm going through hormonal changes. I'm not always in the mood, and a loving partner should understand that. I've come away from this THANKING THE LORD that I have my H for a mate! He understands my moods, my hormonal changes, my needs, etc., as I try to understand his. Phew!

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm backing out of this thread because I'm starting to feel a little insulted and objectified. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really?

When we were younger my wife had a greater sex drive than me. Many times she would seek me for Sf when I was not in the mood. I was in my 20s and I remember I would tell her to turn me on or I would start with foreplay even if I was tired. Then after a while we were into it and as I remember the SF at times was quite good even though I have no desire for it. In other words the expectation was low.

As we got older our desire for SF was fairly even or perhaps my wife got used to my frequency. In out later years it was my wife who at times participated in SF when she was not motivated. At times she probably went thru the motions, but there where times when she got into it.

Why are you offended?

We are not talking about forcing anyone to have SF. We are simply stating that sometimes both men and women do a little extra to please the spouse.

Well I thought it was a good discussion, and helpful too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
<strong> Wow..I'm just amazed at some of this....

And let's not compare things a person needs to live with things a person needs to be fullfilled (ie eating VS SF)

All I can say is....whooaaaaaa...

I'm backing out of this thread because I'm starting to feel a little insulted and objectified. My problem, I know...but I feel some folks here, whether they be men or women, might benefit from having a talk with a gynecologist and perhaps a psychiatrist who should be versed in both physical and mental conditions in combination. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">maddy, I'm sorry that you're feeling insulted. I'm female and spoke up because it appeared to me that men were getting bashed a bit. May I ask what you find insulting? Or why the possibility of wanting sex daily should be addressed by gynecologists and psychiatrists?

I think many women in our culture have internalized an idea that men are sexually animalistic, that sex is "merely" a physical action - that old "he's only after sex" has snuck it's way into our marriages and is wreaking havoc. Women who operate from that stance are negating their spouse's expression of love. I would hazard the guess that a high percentage of marriages in trouble would find that the predominant arguments, wounds, hurts and disagreements have been over the frequency of sex.

I see evidence of what I consider skewed viewpoints when it appears that the only two options presented here are "I'm turned on today so we can do it" and "duty sex." Those aren't the only options.

I think we do our spouses a disservice when we place them continuously in the position of cautiously approaching us, hat-in-hand, finger in the air to test the prevailing winds in the hopes of making love. Frequency of lovemaking should be something discussed, agreed to and followed through on, so that the higher drive spouse isn't forced into some feeble position in the relationship.

This, of course, is placed in the context of a reasonably healthy marital relationship not twisted by abuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Buttercup:CC:
<strong> Maddy,

I'm with you! Backing out now... Feeling totally offended as a woman and as a sexual partner.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? What have you found offensive?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
RAG, sorry if I sounded offensive to you. Didn't mean to offend you OR your gender. Believe me, I know many men who don't put out sexually as much as their hyper-sexual wives want it! I've heard it both from men AND from women, so I'm not really slighting one gender.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why "hyper" sexual? The very words you are choosing places a negative connotation on the idea of daily sex. Are you placing yourself and your personal choice of frequency as the arbiter or what is "normal" and anyone who desires to make love more than you is therefore "hyper"?

And dryness is easily rectified with today's lubricants.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Gamus (or whatever your name is--sorry I didn't double check it), you should run off with RAG since you're both in sync sexually. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I have the lower drive in my marital relationship. It's not a matter of sync. It's a matter of caring about my partner.