</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>I get his pain, I live with the man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Earlier in this thread, you said something about how he should know that you're not leaving and he should know that you love him etc.

From what you post here, it doesn't seem that you do get it. It seems like you want him to just get over it. It doesn't work that way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>if OUR love is strong enough, we should be able to make it. But he needs to understand that I have changed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you just think of love as this intangible feeling or idea, then I don't think that you will really make it.

Think of love as a verb. I don't necessarily mean that love = sex, but in a way that is true. If you are holding back, then you are limiting the strength of that love.

Just a few thoughts from someone who doesn't really know what he's talking about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>I HEAR HIM! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, and I also wanted to add that if you hear him, that he feels like he needs sex to heal from the pain that you caused him, how sincere do you think you seem to him when you say that you want to "make it" and then deny him what he has said he needs?

Of course he has to understand your feelings TOO, but he cannot without your help.
OK, now you'll say you help as much as you can... and I'll add - be persistent and don't expect he gets it in the short period of time...
you cannot just wish and he'll forget, you cannot expect he regains his trust as soon as you'd like... Some people need more time, and if you want to save your M you have to be patient.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">P.S. I dont need to re-read his posts, he re-tells me lots of times whats on his mind and I HEAR HIM!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope I'm wrong stating that it's never enough reading... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Or, you might make it working more than couple of days... (your H states: "Our talks only work for a couple of days.")

I don't know either of you, and see just words you both write...

Is it 'one way street'?
No, but his (as a BS) has the right-of-way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

SLAPNUTS- I think you are siding too much here, getting blinded by what you want to believe.
I know he cannot get over this just like that. Its a hard and long road ahead of us. But he can and YOU too for what matters, see what I am thinking and feeling too.
Of course I want us to move as fast as possible to get out of this mess that I created, but I know it will take time. Because I want that, that makes me the "bad guy"?
My words and my actions say "I love you" to my husband, I am not this yo-yo of emotions with what I do or say.

Thank you

MYRTA

I am not looking to throw the towel, that is for sure.

On D-day I was in so much pain that I practically begged Myrta to leave me for the OM. I thought the honorable thing to do was to let her choose her own happiness and destiny . I guess she knew that the small patch of green (the adventure, the SF, the fantasy) was not enough. Everything around it was quite brown. Myrta knew this instantly and refused to leave. I give her a ton of credit for that.

Myrta is defensive------- always has been---always will.

I am trying to cope with the new Myrta and it is not easy giving up the Myrta I knew for almost 30 years. One of the sensations after D-day is that of mourning for the loss of the part of the spouse we loved all these years. We instantly know that aspect is dead and gone forever.

I an actually doing quite well and this is nothing but a valley and hopefully i will soon reach another hill. I feel somewhat liberated after discussing the issue of nightly SF on the board. It has taken a lot of pressure from me and I will expect less. I believe my high expectations were causing me a lot of harm. With low expectations one tends to be happier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>My words and my actions say "I love you" to my husband, I am not this yo-yo of emotions with what I do or say.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your husband felt he had to make a promise to you to not push for sex. I don't know your H, but for me, if I felt I had to push for it, I would not feel loved.

Just a thought.

oops edit not equal quote who would say so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong>Is it 'one way street'?
No, but he (as a BS) has the right-of-way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a great analogy. Well said.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> BELONGING TO NOWHERE--Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I get his pain, I live with the man. Now, does he get mine? n Or this is a one way street?
We have been married for 31 years, I understand my husband very well, I understand what he is coming from. What HE does not understand is that I am change, I am a different person, but he wants to have the actions and words of Myrta pre-affair. And that is not possible, because those two years changed me, and if OUR love is strong enough, we should be able to make it. But he needs to understand that I have changed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

MYRTA

P.S. I dont need to re-read his posts, he re-tells me lots of times whats on his mind and I HEAR HIM! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, your pain was self-inflicted. Stanley's was not. That makes a difference.

The old layed-back Stanley who made few demands of you and your relationship is gone.

Perhaps forever.

In other words, he has changed as well. And over night, not over a period of two years.

Imagine if babies grew to toddlers in a two-week period. The tearing, stretching, the pain, the inability to properly use their body because they had not had the *time* to adjust to the ever- increasing daily changes.

Stanley is that toddler.

Changes forced on him in a very short period of time that have left him reeling, attempting to find a place of functionality.

Can't be the Stanley he used to be, and hasn't determined the Stanley that will be.

I could be wrong, but it looks like you want placid Stanley back and instead you've got emotional Stanley.

Needy Stanley.

Stressed Stanley.

Angry Stanley.

Frustrated Stanley.

And you keep wanting to stuff him back into his old role. But he doesn't fit there anymore. And you want him to respond on your timetable and on your terms. But you've had two years to incorporate your changes. Stanley's had a few months. You chose making your changes. Stanley's changes were not of his own choosing.

You think you understand, but I read your posts and I don't think you do. I am not meaning to be harsh. But what you post here gives little indication of patience on your part. Little kindness. Little softness.

If you could only take a deep breath. Force yourself to think calmly before you react or speak. You may find that responding with softness and kindness when Stanley's off on a tear might get you the same result from Stanley that sex is currently providing for him.

I wish you both well.

WELL, ALL OF YOU!!
SINCE I am not a masochist, I am off this MB!!
You can advice my husband and others.
I already feel bad enough to have evreyone beating on me.

Thanks

OK, I've been lurking and just cannot believe this thread. I'm not going to state my opinions on the "sex on demand whether I want it or not" topic.

But....

Why is it that there is not enough stress that Myrta and Stanley DESPERATELY need MC and possibly they both need IC?? They tried 1 counselor and found it not helpful. A doc friend of Stanley convinced him it's not worth it -- that is ONE MAN's opinion. (Despite what some physician's seem to think, they are not omniscient just because they get to put "MD" after their name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) Maybe they should try the MB counselors. Finances do not seem to be an issue in that regard.

AND...

Why are the issues of ENs and LBs not being addressed? Except of course for Myrta's failure of meeting this EN of Stanley's?? Everyone seems to be focusing on Myrta's failure to "put out" on demand without offering any real help to their marital situation.

If I was drop-dead exhausted, I wouldn't be in the mood for sex either. And if in reply, my spouse retaliates by telling me I should run off with the OP, is that not a ENORMOUS LB?? Why is Stanley not chastised for that?

My advice to Stanley & Myrta, get MC as soon as possible. Maybe even IC. This is not about sex.

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: lsatyd ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>I already feel bad enough to have evreyone beating on me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't seen anyone beating on you.

The trick with MB is that you have no control over your spouse's behaviour. You only control yourself.

I am merely trying to point out to you that by denying sex, you are hurting him.

You say you want to recover, but it seems you are unwilling to do the one thing that would help your H to recover. Instead you focus on his LB's.

Well, to me it seems perfectly understandable that a BS would make plenty of those.

Take out of this what you want, but it was you who drastically changed the dynamic of this relationship, and if anyone should be the one to step outside their comfort zone to fix it, guess who it should be?

It's easy to "feel bad". I'm trying to get you to see that there are actions you can take that will help. All the "feeling" in the world won't help your situation.

It's unfortunate that you have closed yourself so much that you really don't seem to understand the messages your husband is receiving from your actions.

He's feeling immasculated. As a woman, you wouldn't understand how that feels, but suffice to say, it really, really stinks. Do you really think that rationing out sex will help him to recover from that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lsatyd:
<strong>And if in reply, my spouse retaliates by telling me I should run off with the OP, is that not a ENORMOUS LB?? Why is Stanley not chastised for that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My take is that he feels like second choice, since she would go out of her way to have sex with OM, yet won't with him, whom she is trying to rebuild a marriage with.

I feel very sorry, actually for both of them. This marriage seems like a bit of a train wreck.

It just seems to me that if you cause the damage, you ought to be the one to take the initiative in fixing it.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Slapnuts:
My take is that he feels like second choice, since she would go out of her way to have sex with OM, yet won't with him, whom she is trying to rebuild a marriage with.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beg to differ with you on this one. I think he knows better and it goes much deeper than that. Which is why I think they need MC. Besides, they are having SF, just not DAILY like he wants.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel very sorry, actually for both of them. This marriage seems like a bit of a train wreck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to agree with you 100% on this one. It is sad because they obviously love each other and want to make their marriage work. I admire them both for that.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It just seems to me that if you cause the damage, you ought to be the one to take the initiative in fixing it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a hard one. While I would never imply an A is EVER justified, it is obvious to me there are deeper issues that they need to address with a good MC. IMVHO, this is not just about the A and/or sex.

Which reminds me, I read somewhere that Stanley said he had played the part of a Secret Admirer sending Myrta anonymous erotic emails to spice up their sex life. He ended it when it got to the point that Myrta was willing or at least considering meeting the sender of the emails not knowing it was Stanley. This should have sent up red flags all over the place that something was amiss in their marriage. Marital problems are never justification for an A, which CANNOT be justified, but an A (or even serious temptation of an A) should make one reflect on the relationship, IMHO.

It takes the efforts of BOTH the BS & WS to repair the marriage, both the direct effects of the A but also the underlying issues that existed prior to the A.

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: lsatyd ]</small>

Which reminds me, I read somewhere that Stanley said he had played the part of a Secret Admirer sending Myrta anonymous erotic emails to spice up their sex life. He ended it when it got to the point that Myrta was willing or at least considering meeting the sender of the emails not knowing it was Stanley. This should have sent up red flags all over the place that something was amiss in their marriage. Marital problems are never justification for an A, which CANNOT be justified, but an A (or even serious temptation of an A) should make one reflect on the relationship, IMHO.

The secret admirer (me) made it clear he did not want a relationship with a married woman. Myrta told the secret admirer she had never been unfaithful and that she could not go to bed with another man. However, she listened to the secret admirer. And read the erotic emails. She never wrote anything erotic herself. She was very aroused and we had good SF for several weeks. She would tell the admirer that I was getting a lot of SF.

However, last night I learned that my wife has been sexually dissatisfied for many years and that this was one of the reasons for the affair. I also learned she is not aroused and has not been aroused even before the affair. It was a big blow to my ego---- I have decided to stop having SF with my wife until this gets better. Obviously it would be very stressful to have SF under these circumstances. So I am going celibate and will try to explore other avenues.


Originally posted by lsatyd:
And if in reply, my spouse retaliates by telling me I should run off with the OP, is that not an ENORMOUS LB?? Why is Stanley not chastised for that?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My take is that he feels like second choice, since she would go out of her way to have sex with OM, yet won't with him, whom she is trying to rebuild a marriage with.
I feel very sorry, actually for both of them. This marriage seems like a bit of a train wreck.
It just seems to me that if you cause the damage, you ought to be the one to take the initiative in fixing it.



I do feel like 2nd choice. IN fact, if there were no children and OM had a comparable profession and checkbook my wife would be a goner. As fort the SF, I do recognize that when I am cranky about not getting any she gets less and less aroused. Two to three hours a day of rubbing her back, caressing her hair, and everything else does not work. So I am heading for celibacy and see how that goes.


He's feeling emasculated. As a woman, you wouldn't understand how that feels, but suffice to say, it really, really stinks. Do you really think that rationing out sex will help him to recover from that?



As I said SF is now off the table.


If I was drop-dead exhausted, I wouldn't be in the mood for sex either. And if in reply, my spouse retaliates by telling me I should run off with the OP, is that not an ENORMOUS LB?? Why is Stanley not chastised for that?



Sorry, but I asked my wife last night to consider a reconciliation with her OM. At this point I don’t want to be 2nd choice-------- it is a matter of pride.

Needy Stanley.
Stressed Stanley.
Angry Stanley.
Frustrated Stanley.


I used to be the poster child for type B personality!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>However, last night I learned that my wife has been sexually dissatisfied for many years and that this was one of the reasons for the affair. I also learned she is not aroused and has not been aroused even before the affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Ouch. Man, that's got to hurt.

Was she specific about why she was dissatisfied?

I mean, is it something that can be fixed, or is it something that can't, like for example, your age or height or some physical attribute?

Is there something that you could have been doing to get her aroused that you haven't been?

Are you sure she was being honest about this, or is she just speaking out of hurt?

I'm sorry for what you're going through. If my wife said that to me, I really don't think I could go on. It sucks to feel like you're just still in the picture for money.

Good luck.

You both changed in different ways prior to A, A itself changed you in different ways, and now, if you BOTH want to be happily for life married, you BOTH have to change again, but this time must be the same direction.

OK, wife and I are fighting. Sorry for the threadjack, but at least we are fighting about SF frequency and this may be pertinent.

Wife told me that when she said she was sexually dissatisfied she was simply trying to Lovebuster me and that it is not true. After all she was faithful for nearly 30 years and could have strayed in her youth when she was very sexual.

As for the secret admirer, she was actually scared because the admirer knew to much about her and wanted to talk to the guy (me) on the phone.

I have to add that my wife has made a major effort in recovering the marriage and that at this point our only concern was the SF. Otherwise, she is and has always been a great wife and I can say without any doubts that most men would kill to have a wife like Myrta.

However, I still have to grieve the affair and this is not an easy road. At this point I will continue with the plan of sexual abstinence until things get better with other methods. We still have arguments like teens do, but it keeps us young----- sorry!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>Wife told me that when she said she was sexually dissatisfied she was simply trying to Lovebuster me and that it is not true. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

I suspected as much. That's why I asked if she had meybe just said it out of hurt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>However, I still have to grieve the affair and this is not an easy road. At this point I will continue with the plan of sexual abstinence until things get better with other methods. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think it's the best approach. Does she ever want sex from you?

You both ought to be going out of your way to go absolutely overboard meeting EN's. I think she ought to be doing her best to fulfill you sexually, and I think that you ought to be doing whatever it takes to meet her EN's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong> OK, wife and I are fighting. Sorry for the threadjack, but at least we are fighting about SF frequency and this may be pertinent.

Wife told me that when she said she was sexually dissatisfied she was simply trying to Lovebuster me and that it is not true. After all she was faithful for nearly 30 years and could have strayed in her youth when she was very sexual.

As for the secret admirer, she was actually scared because the admirer knew to much about her and wanted to talk to the guy (me) on the phone.

I have to add that my wife has made a major effort in recovering the marriage and that at this point our only concern was the SF. Otherwise, she is and has always been a great wife and I can say without any doubts that most men would kill to have a wife like Myrta.

However, I still have to grieve the affair and this is not an easy road. At this point I will continue with the plan of sexual abstinence until things get better with other methods. We still have arguments like teens do, but it keeps us young----- sorry! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if it would be of any value to you to have me make some observations.