If you think it's the best approach. Does she ever want sex from you?
You both ought to be going out of your way to go absolutely overboard meeting EN's. I think she ought to be doing her best to fulfill you sexually, and I think that you ought to be doing whatever it takes to meet her EN's.


I filled my EN questionnaire, but I don’t think she has seen it. I brought home a blank questionnaire and I believe she intended to fill it, but I have not seeing it. I asked her about ENs and she said admiration was no 1. She also enjoys pampering….massage, someone running fingers thru her hair, ect. She did not tell me SF was high on the list. I am not making this up when I say that there have been nights when I have spent hours stroking her hair and rubbing her back while she falls asleep like a cat. I could do this till the cows come home and I see no correlation with SF--------- There is no relationship. I also spend days telling her how great she is and praising her incredible good looks. This is easy for me as I don’t have to make it up. It comes out spontaneously as I am madly in love with her. I get nothing from this either. As a result I have become distant and feel more at ease and there is no chance of disappointment. I also seem to absorb the idea of no SF much better because I have low expectorations.

As for who initiates?

She initiated a quickie Saturday AM after I made up my mind I was not going to try anymore. Or maybe we had an argument and she wanted me to feel better---- I don’t remember. Other than that it is usually me who initiates.

We had a good discussion today and agreed on sexual abstinence.

The ball is on her court. I think she likes the idea of not feeling the pressure to perform and I believe I can get used to this. Maybe she will regain her desire------- who knows?

<small>[ January 12, 2005, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if it would be of any value to you to have me make some observations.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please do!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if it would be of any value to you to have me make some observations.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please do! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1- grieving may or may not clairfy accountability and displaced anger.

2- you have displaced anger, rage and resentment.

3- your head game playing with your wife was a dishonest manipulation of her heart while you played 'secret admirer' it set her up to form an emotional attachment with someone she was not married to while you witheld emotional honesty and integrity from the relationship for the sake of getting hot sex yourself.

4- your need for sex is extreme and designed to ameliorate underlying feelings of you say sadness, I say fear even terror or paranoia.

5- you want sex to make you feel whole.

6- you justify the extreme sexual demands you have and when that fails you resort to unspecified 'other measures' which I can only assume means solo sex or an extramarital affair of your own. either way you are acting out a state of resignation and punishment where sex is still the highest priority.

7- you're extreme and exxegerated reliance upon sex to resolve inner conflict isn't working.

8- you blameshift and displace unresolved emotions on your wife keeping yourself blind to your own mistakes rather than examine yourself fearlessly and look for your own shortcomings and how they can be overcome.

9- you are largly trying to control outcomes by yourself with notable exceptions like coming here and opening yourself to mine and other's feedback however you're demonstrable resolution to take suggestion and act on it is questionable.

10- you avoid the possibility that you are sexual compulsive while your actions and thought process suggest to me you might be to some degree.

11- your wife is defensive, you are agressive, neither of you feels safe and both of you feel justified and unjustified at the same time.

12- sex seems to be the pivot point for your entire connection in the relationship not just one of a number of balanced needs, yours is an eccentric distorted unmanageable marital agreement made by TWO people which overemphasizes sex fulfillment as the solution to all other problems.

I'll leave you do draw your own conclusions from these observations. I'm not infallible. These could be all true, partially true or all wrong. This is just the view I see from where I sit.

I also see you both care for and love each other. It's distressing to see you both hurting so much.

Here, let me oversimplify this:

Say an H's top EN is SF, and his W's top EN is conversation

An H has no more right to "SF on demand" as a W might have to "conversation on demand."

Come on, are there not times when an H just might not be inclined to engage in deep, meaningful conversation with his W about the topic of her choice? Perhaps he needs to complete an urgent task of some sort. He can gently ask for a rain check without LBing or being accused of failing to meet some need, doncha think? And wouldn't the same apply to a W who might just be too exhausted after a tough day to provide SF for her H?

Seems to me that ENs should have to be met on demand 24x7x365. Let's get real, people.

Here, let me oversimplify this:

Say an H's top EN is SF, and his W's top EN is conversation

An H has no more right to "SF on demand" as a W might have to "conversation on demand."

Come on, are there not times when an H just might not be inclined to engage in deep, meaningful conversation with his W about the topic of her choice? Perhaps he needs to complete an urgent task of some sort. He can gently ask for a rain check without LBing or being accused of failing to meet some need, doncha think? And wouldn't the same apply to a W who might just be too exhausted after a tough day to provide SF for her H?

Seems to me that ENs should have to be met on demand 24x7x365. Let's get real, people.

K:

Thanks for the reply and the warning regarding the stingers you were planning to send my way. Do not be concerned, like a lot of men I welcome criticism as I can always learn something from it.


1- grieving may or may not clarify accountability and displaced anger.
2- you have displaced anger, rage and resentment.

The word that best describes how I feel is sadness, therefore I am depressed. The depression is better than at the onset as I am able to eat and just this past week I started to go to the gym again. I had some anger after D-day------- I am mostly sad and disappointed in myself since i knew this could happen since day one. I was too trustful and way too type B (personality) in my approach to things.

3- your head game playing with your wife was a dishonest manipulation of her heart while you played 'secret admirer' it set her up to form an emotional attachment with someone she was not married to while you withheld emotional honesty and integrity from the relationship for the sake of getting hot sex yourself.

I did the secret admirer things as my wife was becoming conformtable with the Internet. Unlike my children and myself she was a late comer into the Internet. My original idea was to surprise her after a couple of e-mails and IMs. As soon as I established a rapport I asked her if she would consider having an affair and she was very straight with her answer. She stated she had never been with another man and would never consider infidelity. However, I started to slip sexual innuendoes and she did not stop talking to me. So one day I wrote her a lurid e-mail which she read shortly before i got home from work and then I noted she was aroused. She started to give me very good SF and I decided to keep it up. SHe would then tell her secret lover (me) that the e-mails were spicing her sex life with H (me).

It must be noted that by then she had already started an EA with OM and she even told OM about the secret admirer (minus the details about SF and the lurid e-mails). In other words, the affair had started and was not provoked by this act.

However, I was deceitful in not telling her I was playing a game and she was deceitful in establishing this sort of Internet relationship behind my back. At some point I thought about exposing the whole deal, but decided against it to avoid the embarrassment (conflict avoider). If I had exposed everything and created a bru-haha perhaps the shock of this discovery might have stalled my wife’s relationship with OM. I will never forgive myself for making the wrong decision.


4- your need for sex is extreme and designed to ameliorate underlying feelings of you say sadness, I say fear even terror or paranoia.
5- you want sex to make you feel whole.
6- you justify the extreme sexual demands you have and when that fails you resort to unspecified 'other measures' which I can only assume means solo sex or an extramarital affair of your own. either way you are acting out a state of resignation and punishment where sex is still the highest priority.


I know quite well that at age 54 I should not be looking to have daily sex with my wife whom I have known since my early teen years. It is not something that can be released with masturbation or an affair. I believe it has to do with a change in brain chemistry promoted by the idea that I almost lost my wife----- the so called sperm competition syndrome. I believe this is well described after an affair and can also develop in women. AT this point I am using the SF to treat my depression, but when I want the SF is not a concious decision to do so. I actually feel a natural strong attraction to my wife----- she turns me on! Myrta is very loving to me all day and that turns me on even more. She even teases me a lot and therefore I get too enthusiastic. Perhaps she teases me to feed her need for the EN admiration ------ I don’t really know.

7- you're extreme and exaggerated reliance upon sex to resolve inner conflict isn't working.
8- you blame shift and displace unresolved emotions on your wife keeping yourself blind to your own mistakes rather than examine yourself fearlessly and look for your own shortcomings and how they can be overcome.


I hope you are not a religious extremist K.

I have many defects which I freely accept and try to improve. My worst defect in this marriage is that I was never pressed for Myrta and perhaps this was the wrong thing to do when the spouse needs admiration. Don’t get me wrong, I was more than romantic compared to most folks and went out on dates with m y wife, always holding hands when walking or arm around her shoulders, always gently kissing her neck in public if I had more than two glasses of wine and still telling her ho pretty she is. The fact that after 29 years of marriage i was still thinking of ways to spice the sex life tells me that my wife was always in my radar screen.


9- you are largely trying to control outcomes by yourself with notable exceptions like coming here and opening yourself to mine and other's feedback however you're demonstrable resolution to take suggestion and act on it is questionable.


In this household it is my wife who is the doer. If she does not make the arrangements for MC I w probably will not go. However, I believe we will be calling someone from this board for help. The last thing I want is a lame counselor where I have to spend 6 weeks telling him or her the whole story to then receive the advice that we should go out on dates and hold hands. For God’s sake I have done that all my life!!



10- you avoid the possibility that you are sexual compulsive while your actions and thought process suggest to me you might be to some degree.
11- your wife is defensive, you are aggressive, neither of you feels safe and both of you feel justified and unjustified at the same time.


I am the poster child for type B personality (not kidding). Compulsion is not my game--- I am laid back. However, this issue has changed many things and I demonstrated some compulsive traits regarding the affair, I agree,


12- sex seems to be the pivot point for your entire connection in the relationship not just one of a number of balanced needs, yours is an eccentric distorted unmanageable marital agreement made by TWO people which overemphasizes sex fulfillment as the solution to all other problems.


I will try to solve the issue by going into sexual abstinence. It os possible that I could be addicted to the SF high to avoid the downside, In other words perhaps I am looking at SF with my wife in the same manner affair folks do. For them SF is the drug that keeps the relationship going.


I'll leave you do draw your own conclusions from these observations. I'm not infallible. These could be all true, partially true or all wrong. This is just the view I see from where I sit.
I also see you both care for and love each other. It's distressing to see you both hurting so much.


We LB at each other, no doubt, My wife telling me I was never good in the sac was devastating. but I also told her she could have the OM at any time. Not good!!!! I believe we may be entering a stage of resentment and I pray to God we get out of this because resentment is pure hell and the cause of major unhappiness,

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Stanley,

Just wishing you and Myrta good luck in this part of your journey. I miss you guys and hope for the best for you.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>

We had a good discussion today and agreed on sexual abstinence.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Warning.

Abstinence will increase the desire of the high desire partner even more. It is not very effective at increasing desire of the low drive partner.

Most importantly, for the high drive partner, abstinence will NOT make your heart grow fonder of the lower drive partner.

I strongly recommend that you reconsider this decision.

All the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Abstinence will increase the desire of the high desire partner even more. It is not very effective at increasing desire of the low drive partner.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry to report that on my 1st try at abstinence there was SF. NOt my faul I tried to be celibate.

I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry to report that on my 1st try at abstinence there was SF. NOt my faul I tried to be celibate.

I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! </strong>[/QUOTE]

Hi, Stanley.

No person can completely understand another person - male or female, it doesn't matter.

I am going to step out here and tell you what I think is the crux of your *current* relational problem.

Your wife wants to return to a pre-affair condition in your relationship.

That appears to have been a relationship were your wife was primarily in charge, and was the more dynamic personality in your relationship.

You have admitted to being a 'type b' personality.

The problem is that the old relationship had problems. This is evidenced by the wrong choice of an affair, by your wife, to fill her void (whatever it is).

In your new relationship, you must be more assertive, less 'grabby, touchy, feely' and make certain *reasonable* demands of your wife.

While the above is a necessity in your new relationship, your wife, and you, both tend to gravitate to the 'old ways'. The 'old ways' is what brings you both to this site, having contributed greatly to the current situation.

Stanley, you simply must step up to the plate and assume more responsibility in your relationship. Your wife simply must learn to be less controlling and demanding.

You both seem dead-set on keeping the affair secret from your immediate family. I think this is a mistake. I think it is also causing great difficulty in your recovery. Please consider including your children. They know something is terribly wrong, and ultimately, want to support BOTH of their parents through this difficulty.

If you two are to recover, you BOTH have to step up to the responsibilities facing you. Both of you are wallowing about, unsure of the next move. I think that Dr. Harley could be of great service to the both of you.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble, I am impressed by your assessment!

Your wife wants to return to a pre-affair condition in your relationship.
That appears to have been a relationship were your wife was primarily in charge, and was the more dynamic personality in your relationship.
You have admitted to being a 'type b' personality.

I believe she doe---- so do I.

We had a very old fashion system in place. I went to work and my only goal was to provide my wife and kids as much as I could. When I came home I gave all the money to my wife and she ran the household. She was basically in charge of everything, including me. She even bought my clothes, my shoes, ect. I never questioned her judgment and she was good with the money.

She is dynamic, but at the same time she is shy-- quite demure.

I am very laid back and my wife has the edge on being the controlling one. She hates to be controlled! Just like the The Beatles “You say high, I say low!”

The problem is that the old relationship had problems. This is evidenced by the wrong choice of an affair, by your wife, to fill her void (whatever it is).

The problem was that the relationship was very OLD and OLD relationships become calm and lose the high. Nevertheless, for a 30-year-old marriage we acted quite young (still do). This was not enough---- I guess! My wife keeps saying I took her for granted.

In your new relationship, you must be more assertive, less 'grabby, touchy, feely' and make certain *reasonable* demands of your wife.

I think my wife enjoyed the old Stanley who was type B and very happy with what he had. My wife does not like to be manipulated by anyone----- she cannot stand controlling behavior. It is no wonder that when I bluntly told her I was going to try celibacy she changed her tune. She is not going to allow controlling behavior whether it is celibacy or too much SF. She likes to be in charge and I actually like her to be that way. I believe that she is better equipped than me for many of the things we do on the house.


While the above is a necessity in your new relationship, your wife, and you, both tend to gravitate to the 'old ways'. The 'old ways' is what brings you both to this site, having contributed greatly to the current situation.

The old ways were happy days. It was not that bad! Maybe Myrta can tell us about the old days.


Stanley, you simply must step up to the plate and assume more responsibility in your relationship. Your wife simply must learn to be less controlling and demanding.

She is minimally controlling. In fact next to many people she is also laid back. In fact she is quite accommodating to me and almost anyone she meets. BTW, my wife has acknowledged that the OM was very controlling. I guess within the A that is not important.

You both seem dead-set on keeping the affair secret from your immediate family. I think this is a mistake. I think it is also causing great difficulty in your recovery. Please consider including your children. They know something is terribly wrong, and ultimately, want to support BOTH of their parents through this difficulty.
If you two are to recover, you BOTH have to step up to the responsibilities facing you. Both of you are wallowing about, unsure of the next move. I think that Dr. Harley could be of great service to the both of you.

We are chicken! We cannot envision telling our kids. It would be a 100 times more devastating from my wife and I want to protect her from the scorn of others.

Your post has made me rethink many key issues. I always thought it was very positive to have a wife who was in charge of everything.

Do you think she saw me as weak for allowing her so much control and power? Could that be the cause of the affair?

I believe in the greater scheme of things that she was the one who took me for granted instead of me taking her for granted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong>I filled my EN questionnaire, but I don’t think she has seen it. I brought home a blank questionnaire and I believe she intended to fill it, but I have not seeing it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Well, you ought to be doing this before posting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am not making this up when I say that there have been nights when I have spent hours stroking her hair and rubbing her back while she falls asleep like a cat. I could do this till the cows come home and I see no correlation with SF--------- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees that your spouse will automatically reciprocate your EN's with equal enthusiasm.

someone once gave me this formula for great sex.

CERTS

c=consent/communication
e=equality
r=respectfulness
t=trusting/trustworthy
s=secure/safe

the breakdown may be coming from the imbalance of control from your type b coming across as not presenced, not really there or dynamic.

i would still be cautious to do alot of self deficiency analysis. how classic it is to consider that you're not enough and try to be more. Sometimes less is more. you only work one side of this street. The emotional and spiritual reasons she did what she did are hers to confront and don't all rest on you not being a good enough lover in the sack. Don't believe every smoke screen that blows by.

you might say i'm a religious extremist depending on how you view 12 step recovery... I tend to look within the framework of the 12 steps for spiritual principle based imbalances.

quote:
------------------------------------
We had a very old fashion system in place. I went to work and my only goal was to provide my wife and kids as much as I could. When I came home I gave all the money to my wife and she ran the household. She was basically in charge of everything, including me. She even bought my clothes, my shoes, ect. I never questioned her judgment and she was good with the money.
------------------------------------

Quote:
------------------------------------

Stanley, you simply must step up to the plate and assume more responsibility in your relationship. Your wife simply must learn to be less controlling and demanding.

She is minimally controlling. In fact next to many people she is also laid back. In fact she is quite accommodating to me and almost anyone she meets. BTW, my wife has acknowledged that the OM was very controlling. I guess within the A that is not important.
------------------------------------

It doesn't appear that she is "minimally controlling" from the outside looking in, just the opposite. Also, you have said that you worked and she did the rest. That would put her in control.

Quote:
----------------------------------------
She is dynamic, but at the same time she is shy-- quite demure.
----------------------------------------

She is very outspoken here. That is not an assessment of fault, just an observation.

Quote:
----------------------------------------
I am very laid back and my wife has the edge on being the controlling one. She hates to be controlled! Just like the The Beatles “You say high, I say low!”
----------------------------------------

Stanley, do you think she dislikes being controlled or is it possible that she just doesn't like not being IN control?

Quote:
----------------------------------------
The problem is that the old relationship had problems. This is evidenced by the wrong choice of an affair, by your wife, to fill her void (whatever it is).

The problem was that the relationship was very OLD and OLD relationships become calm and lose the high. Nevertheless, for a 30-year-old marriage we acted quite young (still do). This was not enough---- I guess! My wife keeps saying I took her for granted.
----------------------------------------

There is nothing wrong with an OLD relationship, but OLD relationships tend to grow problems. Those problems, if unresolved when they are small, become large ones.

Your wife says you took her for granted - Well, YOU DID!

Every time you blindly gave everything to her to handle, you were taking her for granted. That is what type B personalities do. Avoid conflict.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
I think my wife enjoyed the old Stanley who was type B and very happy with what he had. My wife does not like to be manipulated by anyone----- she cannot stand controlling behavior. It is no wonder that when I bluntly told her I was going to try celibacy she changed her tune. She is not going to allow controlling behavior whether it is celibacy or too much SF. She likes to be in charge and I actually like her to be that way. I believe that she is better equipped than me for many of the things we do on the house
--------------------------------------------------

And her overwhelming desire to control is the major issue that she will have to give up if your marriage is to survive.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
The old ways were happy days. It was not that bad! Maybe Myrta can tell us about the old days.
--------------------------------------------------

If that were true, then how do you explain your current situation? Those days seemed happy only because you were blind to some of Myrta's needs. The reciprocal is true of your wife.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
We are chicken! We cannot envision telling our kids. It would be a 100 times more devastating from my wife and I want to protect her from the scorn of others.
--------------------------------------------------

You can't protect her from what she has already done. The reason is equally simple - It has already been done.

You can't take it back. you can't re-write history, you can't undo it. The sooner both of you face that, the sooner you will recover.

The affair is now, officially, a fact of your lives. It will never go away. What you do about that NOW determines the outcome later.

Quote:
---------------------------------------------------
Your post has made me rethink many key issues. I always thought it was very positive to have a wife who was in charge of everything.

Do you think she saw me as weak for allowing her so much control and power? Could that be the cause of the affair?
---------------------------------------------------

Wether or not she will admit it, yes, I believe she saw it as a weakness.

The 'cause of the affair' was a bad choice on your wife's part. Did it contribute to your marriage being ripe for an affair? Probably so.

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------
I believe in the greater scheme of things that she was the one who took me for granted instead of me taking her for granted.
----------------------------------------------------

I disagree. You both took each other for granted. Your wife chose badly. That is her part of the blame. She will eat it, live it, breathe it, and it will be a part of her for the rest of her life. There is no escaping it. In the same way, you will eat your part of the issues, and the fallout from your wife's choice.

I should think that about covers penance.

Having said that, blame at this stage of the game is nothing more than a useless study in semantics. Both of you might as well stop wasting your time on it.

What BOTH of you must study now, is a proper, functional relationship, and how to convert your broken one into that.

All the best,
Gimble

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

the breakdown may be coming from the imbalance of control from your type b coming across as not presenced, not really there or dynamic.

I hope I don't gave the impression that I am a zero to the left of the decimal point. My wife and I have a fairly equal input in just about everything, but I believe it is my duty as a man to give her greater respect than I deserve for myself. For that reason I often want her to be the last word. For example when we had to buy a house she had the final say or the veto power. Perhaps that comes across as wimpy, but I am not the least threatened by having a strong wife who is not under my control

i would still be cautious to do alot of self deficiency analysis. how classic it is to consider that you're not enough and try to be more.

Good observation, but not an issue in our marriage. I believe I am more than enough for my wife and I also believe my wife is more than enough for me. Forgiving the affair was hard, but also easy since I have a tough skin. The only obstacle is my pride, but in the end pride can be useless. I never, not even for one instance thought I was not enough for my wife. Even when she LBd me with the sexual dissatisfaction I suspected it was all talk in response to my Lbs.

Sometimes less is more. you only work one side of this street.

This is an excellent point. At times in the aftermath of D-day I was VEY CLINGY. It was an uncontrollable urge to hang on to my wife at all times. This has improved markedly. It is not easy to control the emotions post D-day.

The emotional and spiritual reasons she did what she did are hers to confront and don't all rest on you not being a good enough lover in the sack.

I agree. In fact SF was great as she was starting the EA. IN the end it is probably FOO and I certainly do not blame her for that since she has been a great wife to me--------- and as I said before I seriously doubt i could ever find one like her.

Don't believe every smoke screen that blows by.

I think in some marriages there is a current of Lbing each other for reasons that are not clear to me.

OTOH, she has done a fantastic job filling my love bank during the years. I always felt 100% satisfied with her as a wife. Obviously she was not satisfied with me, but lets not forget that there are WWs who would be WWs regardless of the H. That is just a fact of life.

you might say i'm a religious extremist depending on how you view 12 step recovery... I tend to look within the framework of the 12 steps for spiritual principle based imbalances.

Sorry, I am religious too. I mentioned that because you seemed to be on a crusade against the SF my wife and I had------ I was wrong.

Thanks for the magnificent insight------- it really helps. We are not doing MC and all this input is very valuable!

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Gimble:

It doesn't appear that she is "minimally controlling" from the outside looking in, just the opposite. Also, you have said that you worked and she did the rest. That would put her in control.

She is not a controlling person. But, please understand that I am easy going and perhaps next to me she seems controlling. She is an asset to the marriage in that she takes care of things in a very efficient manner and manages some aspects quite well such as scheduling vacations, trips, ect, ect. I am not good at the latter.


She is very outspoken here. That is not an assessment of fault, just an observation.

It is easy to be outspoken in the Internet.

There is nothing wrong with an OLD relationship, but OLD relationships tend to grow problems. Those problems, if unresolved when they are small, become large ones.
Your wife says you took her for granted - Well, YOU DID!
Every time you blindly gave everything to her to handle, you were taking her for granted. That is what type B personalities do. Avoid conflict.

I certainly agree.

And her overwhelming desire to control is the major issue that she will have to give up if your marriage is to survive.

I still think she is suffering from having spent her entire life with me. If she had spent anytime with an anal retentive person she would not be spoiled. What does she want to control? Do you know? This may be helpful to me.

If that were true, then how do you explain your current situation? Those days seemed happy only because you were blind to some of Myrta's needs. The reciprocal is true of your wife.

Obviously I was too laid-back and did not see. However, as soon as she started to talk on the computer she stopped talking to me regarding what was wrong. She was always very happy and NEVER COMPLAINED. In fact at times I was surprised with her happy mood and how easy it was to get by if I did something that in the past may have been considered a no-no.

Wether or not she will admit it, yes, I believe she saw it as a weakness.

I have the typical weakness of a BH. Very trusting and with little imagination. We cannot imagine that others can do what we will not do. That is why womanizers are always checking to make sure their wives don’t cheat.


The 'cause of the affair' was a bad choice on your wife's part. Did it contribute to your marriage being ripe for an affair? Probably so.

Yep, I was an easy target.


Thanks for your input. The things you say make me think and we will reshape our marriage.

Just an update!

This thread was very helpful to me in that it allowed me to leave behind the obsession I had developed about SF. It was clearly an error from my part. I have seen the light with the help of all of you. My lovely wife was very understanding and showed a lot of patience with me.

I am very calm and have adopted the old approach I had--- we have SF when we both feel like it ------ and it is quite good.

Thanks again!

SO far have not been able to get started on that month of celibacy.

Stanley,

I'm happy for you both!

CC