PLAN B

WHO IS IN PLAN B....
(SPEAK OUT HERE)

DID YOU WRITE A PLAN B LETTER?

DID YOUR PLAN B LETTER INCLUDE THE IMPORTANT BASICS...
1. OWNER SHIP OF PRE-AFFAIR ENVIRONMENT (**if any cause sometimes there ain't)

2. THE GIVING OF HOPE AND BELIEF THAT A WS CAN CHANGE ACTIONS THAT ARE PAINFUL

3. SPECIFIC GUIDELINES ON WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR ANY TYPE OF DISCOURSE TO OCCUR.... ANY!!!!

4. ABSOLUTE NO CONTACT...AND IF THERE MUST BE CONTACT...THE BEST ROUTE IS A MEDIATOR....
OR
EMAIL EXCHANGES ABOUT CHILDREN ETC ONLY...

5. PLAN B INIATED ONLY WHEN PLAN A HAS BEEN FOLLOWED TO THE BEST OF ONES ABILITY....

5. ANY AND ALL THAT I MISSED...

All of it is easier said than done....
and then again is it??....

So much to say about this topic....
so good am I at rambling...(nonsense at times.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> so lets just try to get through some of this....

Plan b is not ever ever a retaliation weapon...it is never to be some knee jerk reaction to a WS actions.....
it is not entered to lightly..
it should come from a place of clarity and firm decision making mind set....

I suggest strongly if you are thinking plan B after an episode really ticks a BS off...that they feel emotionally charged to go to plan B after some action....then it may not be the BEST time to go to it....and encourage posters to post the specific issue that has made them feel this way..and see what other alternatives can be done...

I am not advocating ANYONE staying exposed to a situation that is causing serious emotional or other type of damage....

protection of ones well being is always the first deciding factor..
people may need to withdraw from a situation for safety reasons....but it is most likely not the time to call it plan B...it is time to call it what it is...
SAFETY!!!!!....

What plan B in it's words should say (the letter)
I still have love for you
I still believe in you....

what plan B should say in action...
Is that I choose and claim my autonomy...
that I am no longer willing to be a participant nor voyeur into a WS chaotic life.....

And as much as the fear that a BS going to a plan B....may emcompass the BS to believe that doing this will thrust the WS to go to the OP...
BS aren't that powerful...for if actions could force anything...they would have already forced the end of the affair in the first place...

we humans can not change or control anyone else...if we could...this website wouldn't exist in the first place....

let go of that fear...the WS choice is and always will be in their hands....
any other belief is false...


The wide angle lense of plan B to the WS speaks volumes with its silence....
do not underestimate ever the empowerment this brings to the BS...
believe in this...
relish in it....

we live in a society that thrives on drama and voyeurism....
affairs are drama.....

very often there is much discourse and energy spent by the WS and OP spoken and unspoken that focus around the BS....

plan B takes you completely out of that equasion..time once filled by what the BS did do didn't do does do doesn't do..says or doesn't say...

suddenly gone...
the void can be deafening.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

imagine two people who each know the other is untrustable...staring at one another....

two people who in words may claim to value honesty but know in their hearts their actions do not meet the standards...

no longer can they discuss ANYTHING about what the BS is doing now...
cause they have no idea....

curiousity has killed many a cat....

plan B can be and is often the reality of what the WS says they want...
in their heads it sounds perfect
in their heads it is what they have convinced themselves of what of they desire...

the actual physical and emotional reality of NO CONTACT with a WS often leaves them reeling ..
what we think something is like...and what it is really like are often opposite sides of the spectrum...

As much as you think you are consumed with what your WS is doing...
I say to you...multiply that by ten-fold...and apply it to what the WS is THINKING of the BS...

One of the greatest disservices that WS and OP do is take away the right of a BS to make INFORMED DECISIONS...while the WS and OP have access to all kinds of information and actions of the BS...

affairs are two people litterally deceiving a third unsuspecting party...they enforce on to another human being....environments that are intolerable to people...they take away the BS right to information pertinent to their very core.....

this is a great injustice done to a person...
and not often spoken about here...but it is a core damage component in my book....

plan b in a non retalitory way....lets them really feel this in action.....
lets them taste how distasteful it is to be in the dark.....

One of the ways an affair works prior and even often after d-day..is that the WS still has knowledge and access to what the BS is doing..where they are...etc...therefor they can plan and act out their means of contact...

they then use this information to continue their destruction...
remove that knowledge...and chaos often ensues...

the other thing a plan B says...and why in my book that if you put in writing that you want NO CONTACT...then you must mean no contact...

WS have lost the ability for some most all ?? their words to have meaning....

therefor it is imperative that the BS words have meaning...

when you break your own word...
you give a loaded weapon to the WS to do the same..

Each contact that occurs in plan B...can and often does fills a WS need..
it alleviates their fear
it alleviates their concern
it alleviates their need to know...

it sets back plan B because the WS once again is on familiar territory of being informed....

plan B is not ever ever a weapon that is uses the children...

AND
even after spouting all this..
Plan b is not about the WS or the OP..

plan b is about a person taking back their autonomy and living again in a world where they are not part of a triangle
not part of a marriage that has a third party...
it is a huge staking of a claim that I am done with this...

one way or another I CHOOSE OUT OF THIS....

ARK who hates that anyone has to go through this...
who gets that it is easy for me to sit here and type all this out...
who means none of this as an admonishment...but prays that people can find themselves again in this pain...

and who knows without doubt...that each person holds great value in this universe on this day..inspite of anything anyone else is doing...

ARK, Good post. It is posts such as this that keep me on track. I KNOW, I haven't been able to complete a good Plan A. I know that is the most important step to do BEFORE the Plan B. Else, how can the WS see the good in the R before that is withdrawn with impelmentation of Plan B?

And it is posters like you that lead me to the right path to follow. I have a Plan B letter and I have my Plan A. I know the time constraints and the conditions necessary for both. Thank you for this reminder to keep with the program.

I'm sending out my own Plan B letter tomorrow. Was gonna do it today but I want a tracking number on it so have to wait until tomorrow.

One thing I'd like to add about contact, and ark, you can correct me if I'm wrong here. But I know that this is goign to be the difficult part for me.

No contact also means that *you* are not trying to find out where the WS is...*you* are not snooping any longer. Do not seek to find out what is going on in your WS's life. there are exceptions, of course...someone like frankd needs to have an idea of the environment that Meagan is living in and Meagan may feel too loyal to her mom to really reveal that. But for the most part...going dark from them also means making them dark to yourself.

I so wish I had someone I trusted for intermediary. My letter plans for email as being the communication for things like finances or emergencies...I really would just rather block his emails.

I found that once I had done Plan A and moved on it was a relief to no longer be snooping around on WH. I used to rifle through his pockets, check his voicemail, go through his wallet. Then one day, I was sitting on the loo with the door locked, checking his phone messages and I decided it was ridiculous/outrageous. I was behaving so badly because that's what he had driven me to and I no longer wanted to be like that. I have always been a trusting, loyal person and decided I quite liked who I was before the A. It was too bad he didn't.

But the guilt over my three girls eats me up. We are all so damaged and it is such a shame. Good luck with your Plan B. It might be the beginning of the end. TT

Thanks for this thread! Ark.
I´ve been in plan B since the 26th december after several months of plan A as best as I could because my WH refused to discuss our M, our R or his A. Basically he hasn´t spoken about anything personal for some 2 years (I believe this is MLC). I think the A is still on because he never said he would end it, and as OW is his employee, my condition for even talking again is that he fire her, which he hasn´t yet.
I gave him B letter when he left and he has stuck to everything in that letter, NC and all financial arrangements.He does stay in quite close contact with our DDs.
I don´t post much here because I really have nothing to tell, I´m just waiting and getting on with my life. So I read other peoples stories and learn from their unfortunate (or fortunate) situations.
I know we´ve only been in this plan for a couple of weeks, which is probably too little time for anything to happen, but does anyone think that the fact that WH has difficulty talking about things, make recovery more difficult or less probable? Any advice is welcome.

cc46 I think that conflict avoidance is probably one of the highest risk factors for a marriage not working out...BUT..that does not mean CA is something that can't be changed. My husband is a huge conflict avoider. That was his big contribution to the state of the marriage before the A. But...he's starting to change that all on his own...so it *can* change.

What a great and timely topic for me! I have been Plan B for less than a week. It is very tough. I have not contacted WH except for a financial question. He seems to be unable to honor me with the same. I feel like he is finding any small excuse for contact. I am handling the contact in a way that fits plan B, but the contact itself isvery difficult for me. Any suggestions on how to handle this contact from the WS?

This part of the process has been the most difficult and the easiest. Plan A worked very well for 3 months. We had been developing much more emotional intimacy. Counseling, both MC and IC for both parties, was helping us to grow. However, about 1 month ago, my WH just seemed to fall deeper into a pit. I felt like he was in the FOG, and time would relieve this. However, he broke his NC with affair AND started another affair with an ex-GF from his glory days. At this point I realized that this might not just be FOG. My choice to move to PLan B was difficult, but once I have made it, I have had such peace. Much of the confusion and indecision has been removed.

None of this is to say that any of this process is easy. It is a slow death. But I know that I am on the right path and God will honor that.

I just appreciate this group so!
Tina

He seems to be unable to honor me with the same. I feel like he is finding any small excuse for contact. I am handling the contact in a way that fits plan B, but the contact itself isvery difficult for me. Any suggestions on how to handle this contact from the WS?

How is he contacting you...

physically seeing you
phone calls
email...

what can YOU do to limit the contact..

mediator?

also what is difficult for YOU about the contact...
list what is difficult about it for you..

ark

I am a conflict avoider and so is my WW/STBXW. How can I change so in my next relationship (if I have one, that's the last thing on my mind right now) I don't fall into the same rut?

Anyway to keep this on topic, I think I need to go to plan B, but I went from Plan A to Plan D. Now I can't leave the house or kick WW out, since our attorney's say it's not a good idea. I'm stuck doing a Plan A while divorcing.

My Life Sucks <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cc46:
.... does anyone think that the fact that WH has difficulty talking about things, make recovery more difficult or less probable? Any advice is welcome.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes

and

No

Yes.... difficulty talking during recovery is like slamming on the breaks. H will have to face this particular inadequacy of his sooner or later... and if he desires recovery with you ... it might motivate him to be more expressive with his feelings. If he comes home and does NC and recovery starts ... I strongly suggest counseling for for both of you. Both joint and individual (for him).

No .... If he stuffs his feelings with you for years and years, he's not learned a new behavior to use with his relationship with OW. He may be sullen or sad or distant, and he will not express himself adequately to sooth OW that SHE is not the reason for his moodiness. If OW is an insecure woman, this may work against their ability to make their relationship a mutually happy one.

If your H is the "strong silent" type ... it may be initially attractive for a woman who desires a "rock" to lean on. BUT, if the "rock" refuses to talk to a woman who has "communication" as one of her top ENs .... this is a recipe for conflict avoidance and resentment-building ... and it might take about 6 months before she blows up on him ... and he refuses to talk to her when she blows up ... and a downward spiral begins.

Be patient in your Plan B. It may be lengthy.

Good luck.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and who knows without doubt...that each person holds great value in this universe on this day..inspite of anything anyone else is doing... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, ARK. The greatest disservice done to a BS during this whole thing is the process of self-doubt. I think that is why it is so important for us all to "compare" notes here at MB. Then we can realize that WE as BS's are not BAD, that the WS is simply following a pattern, a pattern created by the huge gap between their actions and their beliefs, IMO.

So many of my FWH's "foggy words" stuck with my for so long. When he said, "I only M'd you because I thought you were the best I could do," my first thought was, "He settled for me? What am I, chopped liver?" Because I was soooo worn down by the betrayal, the lies, the nastiness.

NOW, if he said that, I would have a totally different reaction. If he had another A (although, knowing what I know now, that would take some doing!), it would all look a LOT different than the first time. I don't know what it would look like, I do not put limits on myself by saying I would not stick around again, because that is what I thought about the first time! And here I still am!!

Anyway, tqt on his thread the other day had an interesting thought which I think applies to Plan B. He is doing limited contact right now, considering Plan B, and he "coined" a phrase for detachment. He said, " Detached is when you make the move from... the feeling of losing your WS, to the feeling that your WS is losing YOU.."

That is what reduced contact is to me. I cannot say Plan B, because I never formally entered Plan B because of the fact that we were in MC at the time and I was counseled to follow that program in that area. BUT, our contact for a month was limited to emails ONLY about kids/finances, and it did EXACTLY what you say, ARK. It made him extremely curious, and all of a sudden, him and OW had not much to talk about. The other affect it had, is that H saw me moving on, getting over it all, and that made him begin believing that WE could move on, that WE could get over it all and rebuild our M.

Peace and love, ARK.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said, " Detached is when you make the move from... the feeling of losing your WS, to the feeling that your WS is losing YOU.."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How *perfect* is this tidbit????

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OUt of hiding for this one! You all know the pain and suffering I have been thru for the past year...it has been horrendous for me and my boys. I have failed many times at Plan B, because I wanted to fail...I made any excuse to talk to the alien, find out what he was doing, use my EI to get info on him...He would do the same...He would call me up and just say HI, sending me into a tail spin all over again.

I went into Plan B a week ago today. My situation had gotten so bad though, that I have lost the love I had for my husband only a few months ago. I can get over a LOT of things he did to me...but what he did to me while I was burying my dad, I cant get over.

WS has said many times in the past few weeks that he knows we can work this out, that he kmowns I still have love for him, that he loves me and he will do everything he can to make this work...funny how he was just with her the day before...

For me, I got to a point that I was so angry with him...no matter what he did, it didn't matter...I HAD to go into Plan B. This time, I am doing great. I have no desire whatsoever to talk to him. I have no idea if he is seeing her or not...and I dont care..it doesn't matter anymore...

In my Plan B letter, I stated that I would not do anything legally at this point...and that if he ever gets to the point that he wants to work things out, he must go thru my EI first and I will consider it...He refuses to even email her...

Well, yesterday he pulled a nasty on me..he dropped the kids of 4 hours early...I had my DS9 call him back to come back and get hthem...he said he would only do it if he stayed at the house...so I left...leaving on the desk a to do list...on the list was "call attorney"...

Oh boy, that sent him spinning...he called my mom up ranting and raving. "well she said she wouldn't do anything legally yet, she lied to me" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He then went on to say he had an appt to see a lawyer about the OC, but would have to turn it into a divorce consultation...

Well, I was only going to consult an attorney...he then said this was going to get ugly...why does it have to get ugly? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Honestly, I dont believe that our marriage can work out unless he quits his job and relocates...but he is nto willing to do that...I also am not willing to stay here and look over my shoulder the rest of my life...he has proven to me that he CANNOT have NC with the OW...I will never trust him in this environment again.

Plan B has been amazing for me...it has given me the peace that I so much desired...I dont worry about what he is doing anymore...I dont care...I am living in harmony now. I am rested and not angry all the time. I am doing things for ME...going to eat at places he never wanted to...That is what it is about...It is about YOU, not about the WS...I wish everyone luck in their own journey.

kandi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How *perfect* is this tidbit???? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I KNOW! That's what I was thinking!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

G'day, Pep!

<small>[ January 09, 2005, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MovingForward4me:
In my Plan B letter, I stated that I would not do anything legally at this point...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...so I left...leaving on the desk a to do list...on the list was "call attorney"...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "well she said she wouldn't do anything legally yet, she lied to me"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I was only going to consult an attorney...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he then said this was going to get ugly...why does it have to get ugly?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B has been amazing for me...it has given me the peace that I so much desired...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not "dark" enough if you are aware of his negative reaction to your "to-do" list which you should have NOT left out in plane sight for your husband or your kids to find.

You are not "dark" enough in your Plan B if you come to MB and post about H's reaction to anything. You need to be UNaware of his reactions. He is no longer your business unless there is a child-related emergency. Other things go through your attorney.

Pep

My point being was that he should NOT have been in the house to begin with...he is using the kids to get to me...playing games like dropping them off 4 hours early...I had been making my to do list and forgot about it on the desk when I dashed out when I saw him drive up again...I should have taken it with me, yes I realize that...BUT, I didnt'...he should not have been in this house at all....BUT, he was supposed to have the kids until 8 and I had plans...

He called my Mom...my mom then called me...I should have said I dont want to hear it, which I wish I had said that, but then she would have gotten her feelings hurt...I did tell her she should have said something and I know that hurt her feelings...she should not have told him anything about me seeing an attorney...But she did...

I dont know what is going on in his head, and I dont care...he hasn't done a darn thing that I requested...but I will tell you one thing, he will not be back in this house again....next time if he decideds to drop the kids off early, that's it, I will gladly let them in and that is it...I am not going to put my children in the middle of this anymore!

Hey Pep, in fairness to the previous poster, it was a child-related issue. Dropping off HIS boys 4 hours early is an issue that needs sorting out. As for leaving a list of 'to do' in full view of everyone .... not so good!

Lots of interesting info on this thread.
Thanks Pep foryour thoughts.My WH is the strong silent type but we communicated fine until about 2 years ago. He has changed, I think it´s probably MLC and the A is part of that. I have even confonted him and begged him to please tellme what is going on in his head, both before and after d day. But he just said he couldn´t talk, that he knows I am his best friend, and he recognizes that he does have this problem talking about feelings,but says he "cannot do" anything about it.
I think it will be a long plan B, even if the affair ends soon,I don´t think he´ll be ready to recover for a while.

and he recognizes that he does have this problem talking about feelings,but says he "cannot do" anything about it.

change that in your head that he CHOOSES not to do anything about it....

change it only in your head..
cause right now you are NOT talking at all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ark

...playing games like dropping them off 4 hours early..

don't play the game...
say hello kiddies...lets go out...and go go go..
leave him standing on the door...

I had my DS9 call him back to come back and get hthem...he said he would only do it if he stayed at the house...so I left...leaving on the desk a to do list...on the list was "call attorney"...

that's all drama...that you went for...
so next time you won't...
cause you are smarter than that...

kids four hours early..
and your home...
good thing...it's four "extra" hours with you and the kids....

four hours the alien loses..
using the children as weapon...gaggggggggg

who does he hurt in the end...
himself..
make it so...


but then she would have gotten her feelings hurt

mom needs to know all about your plan...
and also that you have NO interest in hearing a squeak about him...

and in fact mom should say...
SIL unless this is a child's emergency please don't call me....


well she said she wouldn't do anything legally yet, she lied to me"

this is like that TBS commercial..
go ahead and laugh...
the WS is upset because he believed you LIED to him...ha hah hhaa ha hah hah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

then quit laughing and back to serious dark plan b...

ARK