</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My point being was that he should NOT have been in the house to begin with...he is using the kids to get to me...playing games like dropping them off 4 hours early...I had been making my to do list and forgot about it on the desk when I dashed out when I saw him drive up again...I should have taken it with me, yes I realize that...BUT, I didnt'...he should not have been in this house at all....BUT, he was supposed to have the kids until 8 and I had plans... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kandi, what you ~could~ have done, seeing as how you can only control YOU, would be to accept that he dropped them off 4 hours early. If you were already home . . . why did you make any deals that he could stay home? If he doesn't want to be with his boys for that extra 4 hours, fine! Is it fair to you? NO! But. . . . you have now shown him a way to rile you up, and I will not be surprised if he chooses this behavior over and over again.

To me, Ed is like a child who is trying to figure out what his boudaries are. You tell him in words, but like a child, he wants to see WHAT HE CAN GET AWAY WITH when he PUSHES on those boundaries.

Out smart him, Kandi. He wants to show up 4 hours early? Fine! Drop off the boys, and get out. You LOOOOVE spending time with your boys, and your life will go on, moving forward, whether you have to raise them all by yourself or NOT. Right? Because you can only control . . .

Spidey

Maddyck, thanks for giving me hope about change and good luck with your plan B!

Ark,I know that he chooses. It was very frustrating talking to him when he only answered with yes or no or I don´t know and didn´t volunteer a thing! When I asked WH if he wanted to leave he answered "I don´t know"!
I´m the opposite in that sense.I tell everything and talk about everything... and try to express my thoughts either by talking them out with him or in my diary now.
we have had absolutely no contact exept for 2 brief e mails he sent me about money problems both of which I answered with 1 word: ok.
My main fear is that he will feel too guilty and ashamed to come back.

IC and MC are not in the picture because where I live they are not very popular. Hopefully though, since BIL is in IC he may eventually convince WH to go.So far it is not "necessary" because WH just thinks that the fact the he isn´t in love with me anymore explains all this, the A, separation etc.

Just adding a few extra thoughts onto ark's original post.

This was said using different words, but this is what tipped the scale for me in deciding to finally go to Plan B after a year of Plan A:

Plan B says to the WS that it was their decision to separate, but now it's the BS's decision to STAY separated (until certain conditions are met).

Plan B is all about the BS taking control from the WS.

WAT
---------------
Plan B alumnus, now doing "graduate" studies.

WAT
---------------
Plan B alumnus, now doing "graduate" studies.


tee hee

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, yesterday he pulled a nasty on me..he dropped the kids of 4 hours early...I had my DS9 call him back to come back and get them...he said he would only do it if he stayed at the house...so I left...leaving on the desk a to do list...on the list was "call attorney"...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU lost control over your Plan B when you willingly met H's unreasonable demand to be let into your house, where he proceeded to snoop.

This is YOUR responsibility ... to keep him OUT of your life, out of your stuff, out of your business.

YOU leaving while he had full run of the house was an error I hope you do not repeat.

YOU control your environment now. H's desires, his requests, are moot. YOU do what is best for you.

You caved into what H said he would "only do" ... and you'll do it again unless you become aware of this weakness of yours.

Pep

Advice taken...I KNOW it will not happen again...I WILL NOT let him in this house again...and after I left yesteday, I had a sick feeling in my stomach...cuz now he knows what I am doing..he knows I am cleaning the boys' room..ok, not a big deal..BUT...nonetheless, he KNOWS...I have learned the lesson and it will not happen again...I know I am stronger this time around...heck, I couldn't even make it 3 days last time...I still have no desire to talk to him or even know what he is doing and the info my mom gave me last night was way too much...

BTW, he doens't know my new name here and I doubt he will even come here anymore...but never say never...

MF4M (aka M23B) I am proud of you. I like how you are sticking up for yourself now. Thinking about you. {{{{{MF4M}}}}}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not "dark" enough in your Plan B if you come to MB and post about H's reaction to anything. You need to be UNaware of his reactions. He is no longer your business unless there is a child-related emergency. Other things go through your attorney. Pep </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where *I* am going wrong. I can't seem to let go. When I talk to my MIL she tells me what WH is up to, and I LIKE that. I want to know what he is doing, and peoples opinion about everything. WHY? I just hope they say 'she is gone'. I will go for weeks without hearing from him and I know NOTHING, and then boom either he calls or I talk to someone and get the whole 'scoop'. Then I get thinking again.. I need to stop that, but I feel like I am going further and further away when I don't hear about him.

Danielle

Danielle, first realize that Plan B is NOT just ending contact with your WH. It is soooo much more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't seem to let go. When I talk to my MIL she tells me what WH is up to, and I LIKE that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as you are focused in that direction, HIS direction, you are undermining your OWN efforts to protect YOU.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to know what he is doing, and peoples opinion about everything. WHY? I just hope they say 'she is gone'. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And then what? What if they called you up and told you "she" was gone? AND, your WH STILL chose not to come home and be with you? Would your pain be lessoned any? Seriously. Because, this whole thing really isn't about "her" at all, IMO. It is about your WH. All about him. He's not really thinking about much, besides himself at this time. And you cannot change that. It is his decision to make. Acceptance of where you are, what he chooses to do, is all a part of Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will go for weeks without hearing from him and I know NOTHING, and then boom either he calls or I talk to someone and get the whole 'scoop'. Then I get thinking again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okaaaay . . . and how is this working for you? Calmness, peace, then ~ DRAMA! FEAR! ANGER! HURT! PAIN! Plan B is to remove you from that on a regular basis, yet here you are knowing you will create it over and over again! Hmmmmmm, interesting. Has the "scoop" really changed much? IMO, the "scoop" will have changed when your WH established NC with the OW and decides to contact YOU asking to be allowed to be let back into your life. Anything less than that should be of no interest to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to stop that, but I feel like I am going further and further away when I don't hear about him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Further and further away from what? And you said it, you aren't even hearing FROM him, you are hearing ABOUT him. His is soooo indirectly still controlling your feelings. And you are allowing it. What are you going to do about that?

I challenge you to STOP asking about him. I challenge you to take full advantage of this time to yourself, and get so busy with yourself, that you don't have time or opportunity (and soon no DESIRE, either) to find out what he is up to.

C'mon, girlie! Take back your power. Plan B is all about YOU. What have you done for YOU lately?

Spidey

Dani, this is where a lot of people fail at the Plan B...this is where I failed every time! Remember, you are just as addicted to your WS as he is addicted to his OW...of course you are going to miss him, you love him...but you do not love the drama, the pain, the lies he has put you thru! Remove yourself from it.

You do not want to get to where I am now...I waited so long, that in hindsight, I dont *feel* any love for my WS...do I love him? Probably! But I dont feel them anymore...he hurt me sooo badly, and I LET him do it to me. I LET him lie to me...I LET the affiar continue...for what? To save my marriage? NOOOOO! I didnt' save my marriage, but I will save my sanity

Going into Plan B is not to END the affair, it is to remove YOU from the pain, the lies, the DRAMA! Supposedly my WS has ended the affair, but it was too late...I had already given up...will I ever want to work on the marriage again? I dont know...He has to do a few things first! nothing major, just quitting his job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> but I dont think he will ever do that! Is it a HIGH boundry to set! YES it is, but he has proven time and again that He CANNOT and WILL NOT stop seeing the OW!

So I say...go for it! See her all you want...but I will not allow it to happen under my nose!

Remove yourself from the DRAMA dani...dont talk to your MIL about WS...dont ask the questions...what is it accomplishing? Pain or happiness? Which one would you rather be? In pain or be happy?

Spider--Moving,
You two are both correct, and I know it. I need to 'toughen up' and do it.
Every two weeks (until he sets up an alotment)there comes a time when I need to contact him. I either call him at work, and use the method that Orchid and I talked about (asking for my HUSBAND and hang up if he turns into my WH) or I call his mother to find out if she can call him to get the child support. When I talk to her, the conversation always gets into more...

I have several things that I "need to talk to him" for.

Every two weeks for child support until the alotment is done.
He has left me with no car, but he says he has one for me to use. (he took "our" truck ( I drove it)
I need his orders (which the command claims they can not give me) to move.
I need to try and get our doggy back.
His W2 is only online, and he changed the password to the online access so that I can not get it. Therefor I can not file the taxes, or use the W2 for financial aid for college.


Okay, here is the question. Since I have 'broken' plan B a few times by calling him directly about the money, or answering his call on Christmas and listening to his talk about the OW and his fight.
Do I simply just go dark again? Or do I send him a letter saying that Plan B hasn't gone as it was supposed to and I am going dark and I need him to do some things, and include the issues that I need him to respond to, or what?

Thank you all for keeping me 'in check'.
I DO NOT want the pain and drama...
Danielle

Edited for grammer

<small>[ January 09, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

Are you in the military??? And your WH is having an A?

Have you gone to the JAG? They can represent only ONE of you, whoever goes first. THEY should be handling all this crap for you. YOU should have that alotment, YOU should have a vehicle, YOU should have access to take care of YOUR business.

There is NO REASON you should have to contact him directly. He is an adult. He hasn't figured out yet that he needs to give you money every 2 weeks? That is surely a game he is playing with you, and you need to brainstorm ways to make it NOT happen anymore.

Good grief!

Spidey

How is he contacting you...
Ark- Went to church!

He is contacing by all of the above...
physically seeing you, he hangs around, acting like he is waiting for something after he visits with our daughter ( I am gone during this time, my mother-in-law is here.) What I have been doing is closing the situation myself. ("Well, I am going to bed." and leaving him with his mom.)

phone calls, he calls for little things, all start with business of our daughter or finances, but he eventually asks "How are you, how's your day...?"

what can YOU do to limit the contact..

mediator? My MIL is living with me. She is acting as a "go between."

also what is difficult for YOU about the contact...
list what is difficult about it for you..

I have been making that list. He looks miserable. But it is important to stick by what I believe is the right thing to do. He has shown no real remorse or move to change.

I have learned a lot from people at different points in this journey. Thanks, Tina

HE is in the Navy. His command is FULLY aware of the affair. They have counseled him on it, and that is where it stands. I have talked to the JAG about 2 months ago and they were not much help at all.
When the command counseled him about the affair and family support he agreed to set up an alotment. He never did so I contacted them again and the XO said he would get him to set it up tomorrow. It takes about 1 month to start.

The XO said that his orders and W2 and LES I can not access without the sailors permission. Not much help.

As far as the car, the XO said he would 'look into' what the law allows him to do.

The military is less helpful then I hoped...
Danielle

OK, Danielle, do not give up on the military system so quickly. You simply have not found the "right" person yet.

I advise you to go to the Chaplin. Tell him what you want, what you don't want, and what the command and JAG have done/not done for you so far. The Chaplin knows the ins and outs of the entire system.

Then, if I were you, I would get over to the JAG and file for separation. It is my opinion, since you are in the military, that this is the ONLY way you will be able to keep control over just you and the kids. Otherwise, your WH will constantly be in the loop.

A separation is just that ~ a separation. It is a piece of paper, but in the military, it is your autonomy. But talk to the Chaplain first, OK?

Spidey

Spider,
I will call the Chaplin tomorrow. He is actually familiar with our situation. My WH and I met with him when WH was interested in NC with OW and wanted to work things out. Then the chaplin was in contact with WH when the command found out about the affair. WH said he was on 'his side' but that came out of WH mouth, not the Chaplin. I will contact him tomorrow and see what he can do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thanks for the suggestion.
Danielle

My W had me served in July, and I started plan B on October 13. My W called me to find out when she could come get the rest of her things, and I told her over the phone. She complained, threatened, and cried.

It was the first I'd spoken to her in a month, and what a coincidence. The sealed and stamped plan B letter sat beside me in the car. I sent it the same day.

Since then, there has been no contact, except between the lawyers.

Here's my contribution to this thread:

During plan B, information must pass between BS and WS. It may be through an attorney, an intermediary, in a mediator's office, or in rare and unavoidable contact regarding children and finances...

It will happen.

And the important thing for the BS to remember when it does, I think, is this:

You must be calm and detached. You must not exhibit anger, bitterness, or animosity.

The WS must remember that plan B is not about the BS taking revenge on her. It's about the BS avoiding the abusive environment the A has created, and avoiding the detrimental effects this environment has on his soul.

If the BS gives the WS ammunition to use against him during these occasional exchanges of information... if he gives the WS an excuse to portray the BS to herself and others as bitter, controlling, and crazy, then the BS loses his fragile, precious footing on the high road while the WS is watching.

Often, I imagine what I would do if I were to accidentally run into my wife or OM or both of them. I'm still not sure, but I trust myself to handle myself with dignity if it happens.

GC

Gray cloud-
That is a good way to handle things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You must be calm and detached. You must not exhibit anger, bitterness, or animosity.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes easier said then done. I have found that my WH is either egging me on to react or contiually asking "what is wrong?" Face to face when he is visiting my DD is much more difficult. My MIL is the "mediator." I am not there when WH comes to see DD, but I do often come home while he is still visiting.

Over the phone handling business, I can take deep breaths and compose myself, unbeknownst to him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The WS must remember that plan B is not about the BS taking revenge on her. It's about the BS avoiding the abusive environment the A has created, and avoiding the detrimental effects this environment has on his soul.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B is not about revenge. It is often annoying to have to ask myself with every decision what is my motivation. If my motivation is to guard myself or my heart, or stick with the plan, then it is worth considering. However, if my goal is much less helpful (ie. selling everything he has less in the house..I hate to admit that I have even thought it!). I place those consideration in the trash pile. However, sometimes these thoughts help me work through some anger.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Often, I imagine what I would do if I were to accidentally run into my wife or OM or both of them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These thoughts are often helpful to me. It is a healing process to imagine how you would deal with certain situations. I have to make sure I do not dwell on it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm currently in Plan B and in all honesty, cannot really place a timeframe because I made so many attempts and equally failed. However, when I finally made up my mind that my sanity and my children were more important that my WH selfish behavior, I was able to finally "grow up" and do it right.

I followed all the rules in going into Plan B. Yes, my husband stood and still remains to this day with the OW. Do I miss him? Of course I do, I never expected to not be with him forever. But, do I stress about him, our situation, and everything in between...Nah...not enough time as we have filled up that time with our own wants, needs, etc.

My greatest regret is not "listening" when Star, Tak, Le, and Cerri told me what to do and how it would help ME. I made several attempts with "us" always in the back of my mind. It never worked. When I finally let go of the "us" and focused on "me" (for the good of my children), it became easier and now it is a way of life.

Do I love my husband? Of course, I have always loved him and always will. Do I like him? Hell no, not like this...it hurts to be do disrespected by him for so long...but it finally took a great deal of determination. It was scary and at times, I sometimes want to pick up the phone, e-mail, write, when nostalgia hits....yet, I figure, that would just reopen the wound that he made in my heart. That is the best advice that I could say to someone ready to take the step....

Plan B is to save you, your sanity, and your well-being...if your marriage is saved in the meantime, it is a double blessing.

Best of luck to all....