Hi. This is something I know about professionally. In legal terms it is called "non-insane automatism". I believe in psychiatric terms it is called "disassociative disorder". Essentially, what happens is that due to a huge psychological shock the person disengages from all forms of normal control and reacts completely of character, usually violently.

Therefore, IMO, it is most likely to be a concern that the BS would disassociate due to the shock of discovering adultery and react violently, yes, generally referred to as a crime of passion. Since a WS is not shocked they would not likely react in the same way. It is not something that happens frequently and is hard to prove as a defence in court.

Andrea Yates' defence was that of undiagnosed postpartum depression which can include psychosis, something entirely different.

Giver snapped basically is repressed resenment showing its ugly manifestation to protect oneself from further hurts from giving. It is used by SH to describe some WS's. Definitly won't result in murder, only to satify the takers within.

PSTD. This is real but it wontt result in murder directly or snapped. It is disorder cause by extreme trauma. It is an anxeity disorder.

Post-Partum is a bit different. It is known to cause murder b/c the resentment toward the individual (the babies).

To me the snapped on Oxy' channel is a twinkie defense like Daisy37 said.

Orchid ... which snapped you are talking about ?. You know I could diagnosed you as a candidate to become a giver snapped and I think you know why <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LovingBoundaries:
<strong>If it wasn't Giver's Snap, I wonder what it really was? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What was your symptoms ?

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bad d good d:
<strong>In legal terms it is called "non-insane automatism". I believe in psychiatric terms it is called "disassociative disorder". Essentially, what happens is that due to a huge psychological shock the person disengages from all forms of normal control and reacts completely of character, usually violently.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I learn something new everyday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , thanks for that legal term. However Disassociative Disorder is completly diferent, it is completely non violent, it is about trying to disassociative oneself b/c it is too painful. Dis. Fugue, Dis. Amnesia, etc. The only one that might be violent is if one is diagnosed as Diss. Id Disorder or formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder. I just finish my final on psychopathology a few weeks ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

I can't find any written internet articles but I did see it printed somewhere..... something about Andrea Yates and others who have either killed their children or spouses.... said something like she/he snapped and just killed them.

I think I would rather just call it insane and be done with it.

Remember - "seek to understand that which you would become"

Killing children is evil, plain and simple... Or insane if you prefer.

i was told thats what happened to me when i had the breakdown...disassociative disorder...let me tell you it is very real. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Daisy-

So not snapping is a fashion thing for you?? LMAO

Ya know what's funny??? My Mom uses all this tough love crapola on me...like "wish I could have my cake and eat it too" But she seriously feels sorry for people that murder. She doesn't think OJ is guilty, I don't know about Scott Peterson, but she feels SORRY for Susan Smith...she said she's sure she is sorry, I do NOT get it. She also thinks that rape victims are over-reacting when they say it ruined their lives.....LMAO (She also doesn't think we ever landed on the moon or that Elvis is really dead LMAO)

I don't know how I am her offspring, I really don't...LMAO

-Caren

BDGD,

Thanks for the clarification.... it is a crazy mixed up world and there are dozens of way to describe the same thing.....

Legal term:"non-insane automatism".
Psychiatric terms: "disassociative disorder"
Slang: "Snapped"

LB & RH,

I raised this question not because my giver is thinking of snapping... I countered that long ago when I allowed my taker to balance out my giver status. I relinquished some of my control needs and pulled back a bit. Gave the taker a bit more leeway and have been having some success.

I brought up this point because if there is any truth to this problem, then those involved in the A have danger all about them.

IMHO, I think the WS/OPs create the scenario then often step back and let the BS go out of control or like in the case of when the WS (Scott P) or OP (fatal attraction or the murder of Steven B where the lesbian OP shoots the BS then the wife finishes him off by allowing an infection to kill him), that these types of cases can be on the rise.

These WS/OPs are usually quite smart.....they also think they are above the law and in their own foggy mind convince themselves that what they are doing is for the good of the many.

The scary part is if this is on the rise, how soon will it be that the WS/OPs start resorting from emotional vengeful actions to criminal vengeful actions?

The police can't act when it is only an emotional attack. In most cases their hands are tied somewhat. Yea, their is domestic abuse charges but as most of us who have gone to the law knows..... the OP and WS can get away with murder whereas the BS suffers for even having an evil thought.

My point is that the stories here on MB are for the most part horrific. Yet many a BS stays in the R with the WS and often is used to enable the A in various forms. Getting a BS to move to plan B for their OWN protection is often met with resistance. Why is that? It is the fear of losing.... losing what? A WS? We should all want to lose a WS. Losing a spouse? That one disappeared or has been abducted.....so why not go find that spouse before he/she are gone for good? Plan B helps us to that.

JMHO,
L.

ok, sis, whatever you say ... make sure your taker is in checked.

It is not Dissassociative Disorder, could you stop calling it ? Here is the disorder index. Since APA reserved PSTD for severe trauma, lawyer tries to make money by forcing the issue of "insanity" defense. It is a twinkie defense ... as lame as Fogese.

-rh-

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

My dear bro' RH,

I don't fear going out of bounds since I have my support group still working.....just not as much OT for them as in prior years. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Remember all those phone calls before? I used to talk on the phone almost daily with Knewjie, then her [H] and even ol' SNL & his W. LOL!!!

Even when Resillient, WAT and others (including Empty & Faith1) along with Zorweb and Indy.....they all helped me stay sane. Then of course there was Cali, Sing, Lor, Sheryl, Lora, Bramble Rose, JL, Persevering and a whole bunch of others who helped me keep my santity. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> To all of you, I am much indebited. Then again, my H s/b indebitted to you all as well. re: Both sides of my family were sumaris'...... LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Not afraid of anything sharp ya know!?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L.

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I think that ALL of us have the possibly of Snapping.....I know that on DD I "snapped too".

We were 120 miles away from home at a bed and breakfast on the coast line (NICE HUH??)

He finally couldn't take lying anymore and his timing was really really bad!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> AFTER he told me of the A........I HIT the hat right off his head and grabbed my bags and got in my car....I actually WAITED for him to pay bill and then drove a winding ocean road at about 90 mi. per hour.

If I look back.....I think "If I had thought there was no hope....." I may have well taken out a giant redwood on his side of the car!!! Seriously, I know I scared the living day lights out of him on that ride "from hell"...LOL I can laugh now, but at the time.......IF MY LOGIC had not kicked in????? I might have really killed him???

I was blinded with RAGE............only thing was the little "sanity" I could come up with in my brain at the "moment" that saved HIM....and me.

So...........we all can SNAP.

Heres a sad one too.....on the same out of state job my had his A on...he worked with a guy in his early 30's whos own W was at home having an A. When his W told him when he got home from his job what he did was shoot himself in the head.

Sad.............I thank God everyday that he helped me conjure up just one thought of HOPE when I was in that state driving so close to those cliffs and those trees!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Atruheart

I had a lot of thoughts and more questions. Now there's another page! Now I have more questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I don't know where to start.

I think I'll start with this---is this my Taker and I just don't recognize it? What I did was I intentionally quit meeting any of FWH's ENs. Is this my Taker in action---intentionally withdrawing all effort to meet FWH's ENs (not giving anything, not expecting anything from him)?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LovingBoundaries:
<strong> I had a lot of thoughts and more questions. Now there's another page! Now I have more questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I don't know where to start.

I think I'll start with this---is this my Taker and I just don't recognize it? What I did was I intentionally quit meeting any of FWH's ENs. Is this my Taker in action---intentionally withdrawing all effort to meet FWH's ENs (not giving anything, not expecting anything from him)? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think your 'taker' did that is wrong?

Sorry to answer a ? with a ? but...... inquiring minds need to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Well, I'm not exactly thinking that it's wrong---IF that's my Taker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I was wanting to know if that was my Taker.

FWH says that I have turned into a Taker, and that all I do is take take take and give nothing. I agree that I give nothing, and sometimes I remind him that I told him beforehand that I was going to start giving nothing. It took a long time to actually accomplish this, and sometimes I still slip and give, but for the life of me I can't see what I "take". I took my Giver away, but other than that I just don't see what else I took or take now.

LB,

I'm confoozed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How r u a giver?
How r u a taker?

L.

sis ... read this The giver and the taker .

LovingBoundaries,
What is your purpose of stopping ENs ? I am not sure that you don't expect anything from him. It is your taker is speaking "After you have been giving, giving, giving to your spouse, and receiving little in return (because you haven't bargained for much), your Taker rises up to straighten out the situation."

Do you recognize the patterns of your "slipped" ?. After he did something or you remember of what he did ?

-rh-

I missed this ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> re: Both sides of my family were sumaris'...... LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Not afraid of anything sharp ya know!?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was the danger of Giver Snapped. They keep it quite and inside ... then when it is snapped, it went to the other exterme. Including cutting something that is not sushi and not with sissor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

-rh-

Lost my reply <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Keep in mind that this only applies to my dealings with FWH, not others.

Orchid asked:
"How r u a giver?
How r u a taker?"

I am not a giver. I am not a taker (as far as I can tell anyway). It would be easy to see that I was a taker if FWH met any of my ENs and I didn't meet any of his. Since FWH does not meet any of my ENs I cannot figure out how that makes me a taker---what's to take? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I'm trying to figure out if this is a ploy to get me to start meeting some ENs again without him having to meet any of mine (still), or if I have become the type of taker who doesn't have a clue that is what they are (imo the worst kind of taker).

redhat asked:
"What is your purpose of stopping ENs ?"

FWH did not start meeting any of mine. No ENs being met, on top of numerous LBs on a daily basis, led me to stop meeting ENs at all.

redhat said:
"It is your taker is speaking "After you have been giving, giving, giving to your spouse, and receiving little in return (because you haven't bargained for much), your Taker rises up to straighten out the situation."

That is how it started. I told FWH that I would stop meeting his ENs if he didn't start meeting mine. And you're right, I didn't bargain for much and got even less. That's why I had a date for Plan B---stupid me got talked into giving FWH a little more time and then the option for Plan B was gone. Before you say there's always a way, even SH couldn't find one (he said that was not typical, there's usually some way, but not for me).

redhat asked:
"Do you recognize the patterns of your "slipped" ?. After he did something or you remember of what he did ?"

The "slips" I was referring to are when I met one of his ENs before realizing it. It's ironic that it is a LOT harder to stop meeting ENs than it is to eliminate LBs.

I wanted to post this before reading the link so I could get a before/after comparison of understanding.

Thanks a lot Orchid and redhat. I'm off to read <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I thought you were linking me to something I haven't read before. I would be embarassed to tell you how many times I've read that page and still am confused.

This part might explain why I can't see how my Taker is in charge:
"But when the Taker is in charge, we are rude, demanding and inconsiderate. All we seem to think about is ourselves, and what our spouses can do to make us happy. We expect our spouses to make sacrifices for us, because our Takers don't care how our spouses feel."

I don't think about what FWH can do to make me happy---and I don't think about what I can do to make FWH happy. I don't expect FWH to make sacrifices---and I don't make sacrifices for him. I do not make demands---and I no longer give in to his demands.

However, this is characteristic of Taker: Many times I am rude when FWH is rude to me, I am definitely inconsiderate because I don't consider him at all, and I don't care how he feels.

I should give you this info: FWH has made it very clear over a long period of time with consistent words and actions that he wants me to be a wife but he does not want to be a husband.

So, is my Taker in charge with FWH? If so, is this a bad thing?

Orchid just out of pure curiousity I asked in the Psych unit about 'snapped' but they think - after making fun of me for 15 mins - like I have The Helpless Parent Syndrome, or The Loudmouth Syndrome, or Mary Poppins SYNDROME, and living with a Irritable Male Syndrome - so THANK YOU .........lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

they think its an invention by some smart [censored] reporter who couldn't spell Psychosis... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />