Hi again. My D-Day was only about 1 month ago. Since then, I've tried to be loving and supporting and told my WH many times how much I still love him and want to save our marriage of 20 years and 3 little boys. Last night, I got angry at him for the first time - very angry in fact and told him he had to choose between me and her in the next few days before his next long business trip - that I simply could not stand groveling for snippets of his attention, etc. What brought this on is that he basically stood me and the boys up last night and I don't think was planning to call. I called him at his apartment at 9 pm and asked if he had spent the time promised to us on phone with her (she is in another state). Well, one thing led to another and I put it on the line. He said okay he would choose me or her. I thought he was going to choose that second so I grabbed the tiny thread that was keeping from falling into a very dark place and said, "is it her"? He said, I'm not going to decide this minute but I will let you know in the next few days. I'm glad I said he had to choose because I am miserable playing second best but I am SO afraid he'll choose her. What now????????? He'll be over tomorrow morning to see kids and he may have made up his mind. If it is her, should I just say okay and shut myself down? I never in a million years could have fathomed how loving someone could hurt this bad!

Hey VSN3,

There's nothing wrong with telling your H to choose... you are his W. You and your H have a history together and children... It sounds like your H is in a very deep fog...

You might want to consider going dark on him and letting the OW meet all of his needs for a while... Once a taste of "real life" sets in for your H and the OW, their little fantasy world won't seem so rosey...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Ok, you have stuck your foot in his mouth and now he will choose. Is this how you really want it?

I did the same.....out of desparation maybe, thought it would bring him to his senses. It didn't but when I told him that I would choose and gave a date, it shook the fog a bit. Still he was wrapped up in it for an additional 3 years.

So know that as long as he is stalling, he is choosing her. BTW, that wasn't your H you spoke with it was the WS.

Take a look at plan A and B. Plan B s/b implemented when you see yourself losing respect and love for your H because he is being replaced by a hurtful WS.

What have you read from here?

L.

RIF and Orchid,
Thanks for your replies. I think my WH will be here shortly so I'm going to step back and let him lead any conversation. I think I've voiced my opinions. If he tells me he chooses her, I think I will go dark but let him know that if he changes his mind and wants to work WITH ME in the near future to save our marriage to let me know - of course after completely severing things with her. I will still encourage my h to spend time with our boys but I will make it a point to not be around. Orchid - I did not understand about Plan B. Can you tell me what I should read on the site? I have wondered around the site several times but think I must be missing some important information. I also want to order a book but am not sure which one would be best to start with in my situation.

The thing is that most likely he will choose you...and her...

and he will lie to you about it...
profess no contact end of contact...
and still maintain contact with her....

or lie to both of you...

or just lie lie lie lie...

do you want a your husband to choose because you made an ultimatum...and
an ultimatum is fine as long as the only whose actions result from it...are your own...

for instance...you leave him out of the equasion of choice totally...and decide that if HE doesn't end contact by ____________then YOU will do this or that...
not him
or anyone else..
but you....those are the only ultimatums that work...

you will become his jailkeeper
you will become his mommy punishing him...

much better is a person who processes their actions the destruction they bring to all people and choose to no longer be that person...

plan a has boundaries...but no ultimatums...
you just found out....
this is way....early


did he disclose
or was he "busted"

have you read the concepts here...

ARK

Im sorry..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But I tend to agree with Ark. It's too early for this....but being as it's done now, I guess you will just need to wait and see what he says to it???

READ READ READ......it's your best weapon in saving your M right now!!!

If I could have saved you from making this ultimatum I would have...I know from my own experience with my H that he would have taken the "easy" road at the time...Ow.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hang in there...and READ all you can right now.

Blessings,
Atruheart

Hey VSN3,

Have you heard back from your H yet?... How are you doing this weekend?

VerySadNow3,

Im concerned about you too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Please let us know how you are doing.....this stuff can be so "painful" and sometimes we just don't know what too do!!

Your in my prayers.....Blessings,
Atruheart

I feel for you, and am going through similar things with my WS right now. I wish I had some answers..., hang in there and know that "All things work together for good"

Last night, I got angry at him for the first time - very angry in fact and told him he had to choose between me and her in the next few days before his next long business trip - that I simply could not stand groveling for snippets of his attention, etc.

This is just my opinion...

Why would you tell him to choose?

Why don't YOU choose?

YOU need to make the choice...it is evident that he cannot.

committed

Here's a tip for the BS ....

Do not ask your WS a question without a PLAN for dealing with all possible answers.

The "ultimatum" you asked was really a question in disguise.

You wanted to ask, "Will you choose me?"

But, you may not be ready with a plan for after you hear his answer.

Before you ask anything like this again, think ahead to what your action will be for all the responses you can imagine.

Pep

<small>[ January 16, 2005, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I agree with Pep on this one. I was in Plan A from Dday #1 (May 1) til Dday #2 (Dec 31), I had tried to initiate Plan B prior to dday#2 (I knew just no evidence til then), but he won't leave our home and I cannot put him out without judge's order. He gave me and OW the same "I can't choose" "I love you both in different ways" and "I don't know what I want", she and I decided that neither of us (ow & I) wanted to share, he came back home - still saying undecided - didn't want divorce - liked idea of separation (on his terms) to "think things through" which only means to try out life without me and with her.

OW is just as wishy washy as WH, breaking it off each time she and I speak and I tell her the truth of what goes on between he and I, then going back with him when he lies, lies, lies.

So, I decided I am the only one capable of making a choice. I refiled for D. He is still here - refusing to leave again, OW & WH are on the outs (i think) for now. He is very angry and trying to bully and threaten me to back off D and talk separation again. I told him that it will be at least 3-4 months til we have to sign the final papers, that should be enough time to get out on his own and figure things out.

It is really hard because I don't want a D, I love him dispite my attempts not to. I want my family together. But, I want a faithful spouse and I want MY NEEDS MET and I want some self respect too!

Thanks a million times for your concern. Right now, I'm feeling pretty tired, sad and a bit shocked. Today is the first day since D-Day on 12/18/04 that I gave my WH his space. Thanks to you guys, when he arrived yesterday a.m. I had just realized that I needed to retract that ultimatum - so I did. He does know that he'll have to break things off with her though before we can truly begin to reconcile. Right now, I think he has no intention of breaking things off with her. I sincerely hope he will break out of some of his fog very fast though because he let down our almost 7-year old son today by not coming back for a planned afternoon outing and by never returning his voicemail about when he would be home. Our oldest son still does not know Daddy has been living in an apartment for a week. (We had decided to let him know after my h returns from a lengthy business trip coming up mid-week this week.) My h is such a great Dad - I'm completely shocked that he ignored his oldest son's plea to let him know when he'd be home. Here it is after 10 pm and he never called. My son went to bed and never asked where Daddy was at but he did say he was sad that Daddy wanted to spend the afternoon with his friends instead of him (he thinks Daddy spent the afternoon watching football with his friends). If my h does not show up early in the morning, we may need to tell our son because I'm not sure I can pretend Daddy came home after he went to bed and went to work before he got up. Not sure why I'm defending my WH but I think he just needed a complete afternoon/evening to himself but how could he not at least call our son back??? He did call me once in the afternoon before our son left the message to say he was going to stay at his apartment to watch football. I sad okay since our son was busy at that time and to let me know what his evening plans were - assuming he would be here in the evening to make up the time with our son and continue the farce a few more days until he left on business. He told me to "take care", which I took as a positive and his way of saying thanks for giving me space today and have a good afternoon. Now I'm starting to feel worried - he did seem fine this morning and I know probably is just sleeping now after a rare afternoon of football. Should I call him? This is so, so utterly confusing and unfathombly sad...

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. It is confusing and sad.

After reading this I was thinking that now that you've retracted the ultimatum (which I think was a good idea EVEN THOUGH you have every right to do it) you shouldn't call and you shouldn't bring it up.

He knows he should call. He's a big boy.

He knows he needs to choose. He's a WH not stupid....okay...he is stupid but he still knows he needs to choose.

He's also going to keep this up as long as he can.

You need to read up on Plan A. Plan A assumes your WH IS STILL INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIR. You need to set your boundaries though. It's a hard line to walk. For me the boundary included not calling OW from our home or around our children.

In Plan A you are being the lighthouse. READ ARK'S LIGHTHOUSE THREAD!!! It clarified so many things in my mind.

Ark's Lighthouse Post

Read about Plan A and Plan B on this site.

You have an opportunity to shine right now. Don't bring up the choice. Don't call him and tell him to get home.

Make your home a place that is painful to NOT be in.

I got so much closer to my kids during this time. I put thought into how my home "felt", what we did, how happy we were each day.

It literally changed my life and the life of my children...for the better. We play more now...even with WH gone. It helped to bring me out of my own sadness and depression.

I got mad and sad and hurt and angry still, don't get me wrong. But I had my warm, safe, happy home to soothe me.

Try it...it can only help and gets easier the longer you do it. Focus on you and your growth and your home. Make those happy and healthy first. You can't change your WH but you can show him what he is missing and change your own life in the process.

Hi VerySad...

I really feel for you. I was in that position not too long ago and it really sucks. But you do need a plan. Sounds to me like he is totally heavy in fog and is cake eating big time. If you want to save your marriage you need to get OW out of the picture big time. Read up on Plan A and Plan B on here and see if they are the Plan's you need.

If you need help, post questions on here and you will get plenty of wonderful responses.

I too issued an ultimatum, but I meant mine. But you can see where the ultimatum got me from my signature line. WW chose the OM... If your not prepared for that choice then its best not to issue the ultimatum, in my humble opinion.

Miker

Faith and Miker,
Thanks for your replies. Faith - I really like your suggestion to focus on making the home a warm place for me and the kids - and yes for him, too, as often as he chooses until he returns to me and the kids (WITHOUT the OW in picture)or until I go to Plan B. This weekend, I ordered two books from this site - His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving An Affair.

Faith - where do things stand with you and your husband now?

VSN3, my D-Day was just 2 months ago and after my WS and I decided to "work" things out, I also gave him an ultimatum. It was the wrong thing to do. He wasn't ready to make a decision.

I read some more on this site on Plan A/B. I am currently in Plan A. My WS is much more respectful of me and doesn't LB as much. I had some trouble with Plan A at first b/c although I was being attentive, I was also very controlling (monopolizing his time so he wouldn't see the OW). In the end, he ended up moving out so he could get more "space" (spend unaccounted time with OW).

I'm still in Plan A but treat WS more as a boyfriend than H and have no expectations of time we spend together (but we don't have any kids so I imagine that must be harder for you). Everyone keeps talking about time makes wounds heal, but sometimes time doesn't go fast enough. But you do have to be patient. Don't fantasize into the future but just take it one day at a time. Learn to love you and demonstrate to him your good qualities. They get noticed...

So my recommendation is to figure out what your Plan is and execute it. If you ever have questions about anything, post on this site. Sometimes we get down and tend to make irrational choices. Thinking it though and all the possibilities helps.

Just a quick update. I had a panic attack of sorts this a.m. because I had not heard from my h. Irrationally, I decided because he did not return his son's call yesterday nor this a.m. that something was terribly wrong. I left one vm fairly early with a legitimate question (no response)then I think two more over the next 2 hours saying I was worried and to just call me to say all was okay. He did not so I called a 4th time and got him - he was annoyed and said "come on," when I told him I was concerned something was wrong. Obviously, my concern was not appreciated nor did he seemed touched in any way by it even when I explained that it was completely unlike him to ignore his son (hoping he would see my concern was truly legitimate). I really think/hope this time that I can back off. I leave for a 1 day/1 night trip tomorrow for work and then he leaves for almost 2 full weeks to the other side of the country. All I can say is that I will be truly disappointed in myself if I call him first (barring no children emergencies) or more than he calls me. Should I cancel all phone service to make sure? I really just have to keep replaying his annoyance in my head at my sincere concern for him for a few days and then I think I'll build up the will power I need. He does not want to be pursued so I just have to stop it - plain and simple, right?

You need to acquaint your self w/plans A and B. This means right now you need to keep commuication open which makes it a difficult time for you as a BS.

Work on yourself, love your and your children. Be each others support. Keep posting here, read the concepts page above. Check out those books from the library if you need them now. GEt with a good MC or place a call for phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer @ MB.

You have a lot to keep you busy before you go cancelling anything. Try not to be so needy of his time and attention. He isn't your H he is a WS.

L.

Positive Update! My WS stopped by this morning very early (try 4:30 AM!) and spent nearly an hour cuddling with me before leaving on a 10-day business trip. He didn't actually have sex with me but we definitely showed affection to one another. I heard him come in and thought he left something here from the night before with kids that he needed for his trip. I love this man so much - cross your fingers for us! I know without a doubt that I can't get my hopes too high - even though no move he makes is ever done lightly. I think he is coming round so quickly after my retracted ultimatum because I told him a few days ago that I would not assume his reaching out to me meant we would be together forever. I would take it simply as he wants to work on things (SF, Communication, Consideration, Shared Activities, etc.) - and that if we could not both get to the place where we needed to be, we could at least say we tried our best and it's time to move on... Before I said this, I think perhaps he thought any little bit of reaching out to me would commit him to the marriage again. Hopefully, I will have more good news to share soon. Thanks for all your support! I should be getting the Dr. Harley books I ordered soon.