You have the right idea ... keep it low & no LB's. Let the d-day & exposure sink in before you do anything. One thing for sure I would review plan A and start drafting plan B letter.

What do you know about OW ?.

-rh-

Caren,

You hit him where it hurts. YIKES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He is reacting not like a sane man but a mad crazed one. So now is the time to go with a civil standby officer and collect your stuff.

I was the point person for a civil stand by enforcement. I was the appointed one to deliver the RO to a former MBer's H. Myself, her girlfriend and 3 POs called on his mother's house and found this muscle guy crying like a baby in the entry way. It was sad and funny. The officers could not lift a thing. So the 3 of us moved clothes in to boxes, carted away baby stuff and scooted out of there in 1 hour. It was my 1st experience. I got soo good, my other friend had me serve an RO on her neighbor who stole her dog (for breeding purposes). That's a whole 'nuther story. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now it w/b good that you begin working on a good plan B. Know that he will be in this tantrum rampage mood for a while so warn everyone to keep their distance. Esp you and your family. Let him have his tantrum..... call the police as needed. May even need to file an RO against him. Just a thought.

He will calm down, you have wounded his A and he is one mad dog.

Now don't shove more down his throat. It won't do any good at this time.

Work on your plan B. Be safe and keep posting.

Don't forget to secure your finances.

JMHO,
L.

Caren,

I am glad that now you know you are not insane. I know what a load that takes off your shoulders and, as you said, the liberty it brings is stunning.

The anger will come -- he tried so hard to make you the crazy one in this situation -- so prepare for that eventuality. It may hit you like a ton of bricks. But remember that this is par for the course. He thought he was so slick and clever and kept his affair going. Now he sees it unraveling before his eyes and you know what? It's not HIS fault. No. It is YOURS! As WAT would say, he is still on the alien mothership.

It may be awhile before he beams back to earth.

In the meantime, he can no longer convince you that you are a freaking paranoid. Nope. It is now OW's turn. ("No, baby, she's lying... I haven't had sex with my wife since we separated. I swear to you, honeybunch, she is the one who screwed up my sterling credit...."), and blah blah blah. Pity the poor gal. NOT.

I'm glad you got your proof. Get your Plan B letter ready to deliver. I think you're going to need to tune him out very soon.

Make sure your "evidence" is kept in a very safe place that he can't get to.

~ Snow

Caren,

My thoughts are just like Rookkevs, Now is not the time for a plan A..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's time to go completely DARK.....don't TAKE any more phone calls, let the "fall out" happen without you in the picture!! Let the "real life" slap him in the face...without you in the picture!!

Go dark........and wait! See what happens....I would def. get ahold of SH and ask what steps would be best but my instinct is not to plan A this man anymore right now....

Blessings,
Atruheart

Okay....lemme see. She HAD a SO, but I believe that was over before this started, so no one to tell there. I don't know how I'm going to Plan A....he's just livid.

It should be relatively easy to plan B, since I have no idea where he's going to be moving. I thought the last thought's of me were supposed to be loving ones.....this isn't very loving. I think I'll try to Plan A a bit, see what sorta reaction I get.

I text messaged him last night and said: I know you hate me right now, but I love you with all my heart. Goodnight, I love you, God Bless You,

Your Loving Wife,
Caren

The reply I got back was "Whatever"

I know that he still loves me.....and It sorta feels like I should go dark, but then again, it feels like I haven't done enough in Plan A....I've only been doing it solid for about 2 weeks.....So I think I may try to Plan A him some more. I will not shove the Affair down his throat anymore, or love bust about it. I am just going to be nice to him when he calls here. I have to see him in the near future due to income tax season, so we'll see how he feels about me then.

I don't have the $$$ to talk to SH at this juncture. I'm way broke. I haven't even paid all of December's rent yet, although my landlord knows my situation, and has said as long as I'm trying to pay he won't evict me.

I think I need to go to 'welfare' (YUCK) and try to get on some food stamps or something and try to get child support started (which will almost assuredly break him financially...which is why I haven't done it before now, my intent was not to screw him over, although he's been screwing me over for months).

I will keep up the text messages, just 1 or 2 a day, letting him know that I still love him (I guess) Hell I don't know what to do. Whatever it is I've gotta do it quick.

There was also something on the tape about being "tested". I think this may be because I put the thought in his mind that he probably has HPV, because his girlfriend before me had genital warts removed and died of cervical cancer....yes this probably means I also have it (I had a hysterectomy 2 years ago due to pre cancerous cells--although I've never had any sort of warts). With HPV you just have to have the warts removed....but I just thought I'd throw that in there, that he probably has it....he apparently bought it, per the tape LMAO.

He was at home last night at 10:30, not with the OW, so I don't know what's up with that. His house is DISGUSTING with the no water thing, and apparently since he has no water that also means he can't change the litter box, so the cat has been pooping in the bathtub (It's FULL of cat poop....gross, eh?) I KNOW that he wouldn't have her there. Unless of course he's blaming me for his 4 months of disgusting mess too. (Not sure how he can do that, seeing as how I haven't been there....but I'm sure he'll figure out a way to make that my fault too).....so anyway the point is I don't think they were together @ 10:30 when my daughter talked to him to tell him goodnight.

When I was doing the "exposure" thing yesterday, I wasn't remotely mean about it, I just called everyone that I thought ought to know.

Any thoughts on whether I should send a letter to her work? I don't want to get her fired and make her a martyr to him.......here's the letter that I wrote (but haven't sent).

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Caren Mc, I have been a resident of the XXXXXXXX area for 33 years. My entire family lives here in this area, and as you can imagine I have very many friends who most likely frequent your XXXXXXXX location.

I am writing to you today to make you aware of a situation. The manager of your XXXXXXXX store, OW, is having an affair with my husband. His name is XXXXXXMc and is the assistant manager of XXXXXXX Pets which is located 2 stores down from that XXXXXXXXX location.

We have 1 child together and 2 step children, and he has moved us out of our home to pursue this affair with Ms. XXXXX.

I do not believe that it is in the best interest of your business to allow such a thing to take place, especially since she is the manager of the store, and I would think should show some integrity in representing XXXXXX XXXXX.

Ms. XXXXXX has known both my husband and I for years, so she knew in advance that he was indeed married. I believe this shows a character flaw on her part.

I know that I for one will not be patronizing your stores, and I believe once my friends and family are aware of the situation, they will choose not to frequent your stores either.

I just wanted to make you aware of this situation. I have faith that it will be handled.

Respectfully Yours,


Mrs. CarenMc
2738 XXXXXXXXXXXX Way
XXXXX XXXX, OH XXXXX
(000) 000-0000

What do you think? Would that be overkill???? Like I said, don't want to make her a martyr, and they may just think I'm a jealous wife.

All I said to them is 100% true, if any of my friends or sisters went in there, they'd just call her a homewrecker or possibly beat her @....so I've told them all to leave her alone.

It's 6:27 am, I woke up and came down to see what he wrote me back in the text message. (I text his phone from my yahoo account, so the return messages come back like e-mail).

WHERE THE HELL IS MORTAR??? LOL....I need his advice from a religious standpoint.

I am going to church this morning, have to keep the whole daily routine going. Still feel okay today, not mad, not psycho, still just relieved I know I'm not looney. I also miss my H, I do love him with all my heart and dreamt all night about him just being in my arms.

-Caren

{{{{{{{{{{Caren}}}}}}}}}}

You are one tough broad. And you are getting excellent advice. I can't decide if it says do Plan A or Plan B, but perhaps that is because everyone is waiting to see what it all looks like when the dust settles (i.e., your WH is done with his temper tantrum).

My FWH used to get soooooo angry when I exposed. Because the OW, my former best friend, lives in our small community, and she was so embarassed and ashamed. So she pressured H to make me stop. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> *sigh* For being my FBF, she sure didn't know me very well! Nobody can MAKE anybody do ANYthing, and certainly not a woman who is on a mission to save her M!

Silly OW. But they (WS and OP) really aren't themselves, and they project that onto everyone else ~ everything is everyone else's fault. I remember during one MC appointment (that H was only going to in order to make the D go "more smoothly," I think because his mother pressed him to go), H told the lady that the fact I watched the Grand Slam tennis tournaments when they came on each year was a reason he didn't want to be with me anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Whatever. They just grasp and rationalize and justify.

Once you can wrap your brain around that, and it seems you have, you can really become amused with what they say. I tell my H some of the stuff I remember, and he just shakes his head and says, "It is just so hard to believe I really said those things! And what is even more scary, I remember that I really BELIEVED them at the time!"

Hopefully, you will get to hear those same words from your H one day, Caren. I think you are doing great, and it sounds like you really have your head on straight. A bit sarcastic, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but I understand that is how you cope. Could be perceived as an LB, so now is a good time to work on you and learn to communicate and listen better than ever.

Go girl.

Spidey

will keep up the text messages, just 1 or 2 a day, letting him know that I still love him (I guess)

not against text messages..but certainly don't think telling him you love him is the thing to do...

he can't grasp that concept and your words will sound manipulative...

right now he is not acting loving or lovable...

you still can do may love him.....but he can't hear you say those words...and he will twist them against you...

ARK

Any thoughts on sending the letter to her employer???? Like I said, I don't want to make her a martyr to him.

And once again....NO ONE UNDERSTANDS. I told my minister that I had let everyone in the businesses adjacent to his that he was having an A with the OW, he said "Well that's no way to get him back" *sigh* My Mom said the exact same thing although she doesn't want me to get him back, she thinks he's pond scum. I tried to explain that I had been following a plan, and we got into a little mini argument, just because it's hard to get her to "hear" me. She listens but she doesn't hear me.

I said "Mom, I've been a basket case for a while now, you know that. Now that I know, and I have my proof and I've exposed the affair, I don't feel crazy anymore, I feel sort of calm." Then I said "I still don't feel that getting a divorce is the right thing to do, in my heart it feels wrong. So with the two things combined....my sense of peace and feeling that it will all work out....Mom that has to be God! You know that under normal circumstances I would have already beat the tar out of her and been in jail right about now, I've let go, and given it to God, and he's gonna take it from here." That finally got through or made sense to her I guess....She said "Okay, it makes more sense to me now".

I don't really know how to plan B him, I know I need to write the letter, but I am going to have to see him.....sit there with him @ H&R Block while they do our taxes, so I think plan B will have to at least wait until after that.

What do I do for plan A until then, if not tell him I love him? I hadn't thought that it sounded manipulative...but maybe it does to him.

I wonder how long it'll take the dust to settle?!?!?! I mean he still has no shower, and I don't know, maybe he'll start taking one over there, and doing his laundry over there....that oughta be a treat for the OW....LMAO

She's such a b*tch....and OMG she was lecturing him on and on and on about EVERYTHING (between the you make me so horny bull****)about the dentist, about his cell phone, about not "jumping when I say jump", about not filing bankruptcy.....giving him a step by step thing to do "AFTER" he divorces me....for goodness sake, give me a fricken break.....she's gonna be waiting a LONG time for him to be divorced, because I'll fight him every single step of the way.

-Caren

Caren,

I am right here. And I think you have done great! His reaction is right out of the handbook.

Okay, everyone is giving you'adda boys" here. I am going to get you moving.

First off, be careful what you say from now on. No more talk of your "recordings" with him. He could be taping.

Second, I also am not sure there will be much room to Plan A anymore, since you are already separated. You did mention doing taxes together. Hopefully that is soon. So, I would set that day as Plan B day. You go to get the taxes done...then aftwerward hand him your Plan B letter. And then, you will go COMPLETELY dark.

Time to get your Plan B letter on here so we can vet it.

The letter to her employer is good...send it.

Get your Plan B stuff together. You hav a lot to do.Get your stuff out of his house now (do not go alone). Make sure finances are completely separated. Get your stuff ready for court so you can get child support.

You see, he already knows what it is like with you. SF, not porsuing him for money, cooking for him. He has had his cake, and he likes it. But now, I believe that you have reached the point of Plan B...which will take his cake away. And the pain will only increase!!

So, when is the tax prep date? Between now and then, Plan A him when he contacts. Otherwise, stay clear because he is in pain and is angry. Let the dust settle.

The Bible talks about taking a believer that is in rebellion before the church. I think this is the last exposure you need, if he is a believer. If he isnt, then you are okay.

Because Plan B is actually a Bilical tenet. It is where the WS is released into Satan's grasp, so that the Lord can win them back. It means Satan gets to have his way with them.

So, now things get tough for him and easier for you. So, Plan A him when the time presents itself. And get your Plan B act together. I LOVE Plan B. It jelps the BS, it helps save the marriage...AND the WS gets to feel the pain back that they have inflicted on the BS. The best of all worlds!

Good job. Now get busy!

In His arms.

<small>[ January 16, 2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Surviving an Affair describes the "exposure" as an act of love, with it's sole intent to help end the affair, and is NOT an act of Vengence.

But from what I understood, exposure should only be to those that have an influence in helping to stop the affair....meaning family, friends and coworkers. If Caren is also playing the tape to people at buisness who might probably know him but have no influence over his behavior, that might smack of vengeance.

I agree if she is letting everyone know on the street corner, then it is probably vengeance. But, to let the OWs company know what kind of person they have running their store, is highly appropriate.

Need-to-know is anyone that can turn up the heat on the A. Obviously, anyone outside of those that can say or do something is inappropriate. So far, I believe she has included all of those that need to be included. Except, as I said above, the church. I believe she needs to head there and take it before the leadership for them to also confront her husband.

In His arms.

Caren, you ROCK!!!

Ditto what Mortarman said. Send the letter, do the taxes, give him the letter, and go DARK.

Start now making your plan about how you'll manage the Plan B. It sounds like your natural MO goes more easily to Plan A stuff, but IMO it's past time for that.

Best wishes,
PM

TY TY TY for replying Mortar, I did let my Pastor know, but my WH doesn't belong to that church.

I would like to set the record straight, I have played the tape for NO ONE with the exception of the day I confronted him via telephone when he once again lied about having an affair with her, I just pushed "play" and let him listen for a sec, so he knew he was busted.

I told the people in the businesses adjacent to his because they are pretty close knit over there, and I wanted to let them know that the wonderful WH they know is doing this......and he said "I've been hearing about it ALL day" unfortunately, his mother/family doesn't want to get involved, he's a grown man...blah blah blah.

Okee Dokee, I'll draft a plan B and post it. I assume tax prep day will be the beginning of February.

Thanks again so much Mortar..and everyone.

I just knew that I needed your advice from a biblical standpoint Mortar....TY TY TY

-Caren

Caren,

No problem! Just settle down now, and start getting your plan together.

I want you to think for a minute on what your WH is going thru right now. What is he going to feel after the anger wears down?

You see, he is still in that house, still without water. He now knows that you know and thus he is about to be in trouble financially with the court. The people you have told will now look at him in a different way. He will begin to feel even lonelier.

And so, he will reach out to the OW. But you think she wants to hear it? She is mad that Caren has involved her bosses. She is mad because Mr. Caren is going to get to have to pay a lot out to Mrs. Caren. It just keeps getting worse. Not much in the way of loving feelings now for him, or much sympathy!!

Once the anger goes away, he will be more lonely than ever!! He will find himself missing you. And he will remember your Plan A. He will remember the SF. He will remember that the door is still open.

And once he has your Plan B letter, he will have the roadmap back. And then he can make choices.

So, just settle down now. You have your proof. You have done everything you can. Now, the process begins to work on him. In the meantime, as others have said, you begin to work on you. You will be off the rollercoaster soon enough. He will have to ride it alone.

Get your Plan B letter on her as soon as possible so we can get it vetted. Hang tough!! You are one tough lady!

In His arms.

Also,

Since you have listed your first name on here, and your last name (your email address), what state you live in and have talked about possible drug use or possession by your husband, you are open to a possible visit from your local friendly neighborhood DEA officer. I would start an email address on Yahoo or something to get your MB emails. Something generic in its name. And take the reference to this email address off so no one can figure out who you are.

Besides the drug issue, it is also just good security in that you dont know who might be on here, or what they might want.

In His arms.

<small>[ January 16, 2005, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Still haven't talked to WH.....we're going on 2 days. He has talked to my daughter several times, and she asked him last night if she could come and visit him today at his shop, he said he'd call her. (I don't actually know if they're open today) If I do take her over there, I will be parking in full view of the OW's store and going in there and at least smoking a cigarette in the back.....staying in there just long enough to make her nuts, then I'll go to the grocery, or go home and leave my daughter there for a while. (My daughter is the light of his life....he loves her and calls her a bunch of times a day).

I sorta want to see what his reaction to me will be. He won't get violent...not at work, he's a saint at work, and I seriously doubt he'll yell at me or call me names in front of our daughter...although he may be seething and telling me to get out under his breath....we'll see.

He can't keep me out of there...it's a public place, and I wouldn't be causing any trouble, just bringing his daughter to visit.

I also want to ask him if he's moving where the heck my W2's are gonna go, I think it may be a little late in the game to call my ex-employer and current employer and have them change the address. (I purposely left my old address - his address- on all official stuff so that if I needed to get in there it'd be legal, because everything says I still live there.) Also, he's got MY dog....my purebred boxer (We have 2) One is in his name and one in mine....he's not moving somewhere and not telling me where my $1200 dog is.

-Caren

I also want to ask him if he's moving where the heck my W2's are gonna go, I think it may be a little late in the game to call my ex-employer and current employer and have them change the address. (I purposely left my old address - his address- on all official stuff so that if I needed to get in there it'd be legal, because everything says I still live there.)

Hopefully he will not send them back because he would have every right to since you are no longer staying there and didn't think to have your address changed for that important stuff. And be careful with that "I'm legally still living there" talk because I have seen this backfire in court as well. If you are still legally living there, then he could always claim that you are still legally responsible for part of the househould bills as well. So pick one position and stick to it. IMHO

He won't send my W2's back, he's INSISTING that we file together this year, because he knows he's gonna get the shaft on the tax return if I file single head of household, so he wants those things just as bad as I do.

My daughter has called my WH like 5 times today for various reasons, the last time she called to find out "when" he was picking her up. He told her sometime after 5pm. She got off the phone and said "Mom, Daddy was at McDonalds, and he said 'Is this OUR food?'" I said "Yes honey, Daddy is probably with his girlfriend. That's the reason Mommy and Daddy don't live together anymore." She told me that she won't like her, I said "I don't think Daddy will have you around her." My DD10 is a shrunken me, and I pity the poor woman if he does have them together because that girl can give an evil look that could melt steel....and a mouth to match if she's hurt/angry.....she's not gonna buy into any of the sweet talk I assume this chick will throw her way.

She's lucky he's not considering taking my DD13 with him (his step daughter), because she wouldn't just give her a dirty look, she's so mad she has asked me multiple times to take her up to her store (because she wants to beat her up). I said "No, you're not beating anyone up". Today she said "Dad is a cheater and a liar" (We've been together since she was 8 months old, and even though she does she her real Dad, she still calls my WH Daddy) I said "Honey someone who cheats has to lie,there's no way around it." I have asked them how they feel about all of this, DD13 is IRATE, DD19 could give a crap less if he lives or dies, they've never gotten along, and for the most part DD10 won't comment on how she feels. I bought her a journal, and told her she could write her feelings in there if she didn't think she could talk about it....so far just doodles in there LOL, have also taken DD10 to the counselor, and she won't talk there either.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hopefully he will not send them back because he would have every right to since you are no longer staying there and didn't think to have your address changed for that important stuff. And be careful with that "I'm legally still living there" talk because I have seen this backfire in court as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For that matter...if you are still legally married...he is legally OBLIGATED FOR YOUR TAXES AS WELL...so it's really in his best interest to play by the rules.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hopefully he will not send them back because he would have every right to since you are no longer staying there and didn't think to have your address changed for that important stuff. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Might I add...that when your spouse has an A.... a lot of legal, important issues fall by the wayside, people fall apart, lose their jobs, have mental breakdowns.... to indicate that this is really the responsibility of a BS...and "hoping".... she gets the screws put to her in light of tax season is a real slap in the face.

Is the house to get new occupants? What will stop the mail from being delivered there? In other words, can't you stil go there and retrieve your mail? Why is he moving out anyways? I thought he liked his odd living arrangement? Gotta play that back to the WS' brain. Normal expectations are not norm to the WS. Some choose to live in their vehicles to have their A, some live without utilities, move from their homes into rented rooms, go without food, lose their jobs, get sick, get into further debit.... all for what? One stinkin' A? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Such intelligence, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

L.