FR, I'm back and I have your answers. They're very similar to everyone else's.

1: At what point did you realize that you were not yourself?

When I began behaving inappropriately at work. Drinking too much at office drinks, being "over the top" at said drinks, having panic attacks at home. Withdrawing from family, work productivity going right down. Started smoking again after having quit for 6 years.

2: Could anyone have done anything to pull you out of the fog once you were in? If so; who and what?

No. No one. Friends tried. Friends hated what I was doing but no one was prepared to expose - fear of hurting my H.

3: Were there moments, however fleeting, that you could see through the fog to the damage your actions were doing to your H, your children, etc.? If so, what were the situations and what kept you from leaving the fog?

Absolutely. Although family and H were unaware. They thought I was stressed at work. This raises an interesting point. The A had been over 6 months when my H found out. I wonder how I would have reacted if he'd found out mid-A. I think he and I would have been dealing with a whole different kettle of fish.

4: What began the process of you leaving the fog once and for all?

My H finding out and him being determined to recover and rebuild our marriage. Me finding MB and talking to people here.

5: Now that you're free from the fog; do you fear that you will return? If yes, or no; why?

I was exceptionally foggy and know that the OM will probably always be dangerous to me. Hence, NC, forever. But there was a lapse last week when I met OM accidentally and this made it very clear to me that I was now over all the fog.

So, no, I no longer fear the fog will return.

Jen

Ladies - Thanks for your honest replies. I'm not a FWW, but really am interested in your answers. Glad you can be so brave. It helps lots of us. God bless you all.

First I want to say I was involved in a similar EA than turtlehead - no mushy talk, no future plans, no gifts, no secret email accounts etc. Like turtlehead, the EA was mostly in my thoughts and feelings.

1: At what point did you realize that you were not yourself?

After I started getting obsessive thoughts and feelings about OM and started struggling with severe anxiety at work. I felt stressed all the time and became very depressesed. I also realized I was not myself after my H started telling me I acting distant and aloof. I was not really happy, alive and spontaneous anymore. At this point I’ve already started to keep certain things secret from my H. I felt guilty about this. The pull of my emotional attachment towards XOM was very strong. I felt trapped and didn’t know how to get out of it. All these feelings added to my anxiousness and depression.

2: Could anyone have done anything to pull you out of the fog once you were in? If so; who and what?

Yes. I started coming out of the fog after my H discovered my inappropriate friendship with OM and after I had to face the consequences of my actions. My IC also helped me to get out of the fog. The medication for obsessive-compulsive disorder with associated depression and anxiety also helped much. However, my biggest help in overcoming the fog was the discovering of this website and by realizing I was involved in an EA. Before I discovered this website I still thought I could stay casual friends with XOM somehow, but this website was an eye-opener to me.

3: Were there moments, however fleeting, that you could see through the fog to the damage your actions were doing to your H, your children, etc.? If so, what were the situations and what kept you from leaving the fog?

Yes, definitely. As I’ve said before, I felt guilty about my inappropriate thoughts and feelings, but at the same time my strong and unhealthy emotional attachment towards OM and the strong pull of the EA kept me from leaving the fog completely.

4: What began the process of you leaving the fog once and for all?
Having NC with OM and starting withdrawal. And of course, much time and patience... Withdrawal was a very hard and long process for me - during that time I still had obsessive thoughts and feelings about OM, but the medicine helped breaking that obsessive cycle and helped putting me on the path to ‘real’ recovery.

5: Now that you're free from the fog; do you fear that you will return? If yes, or no; why?

No, I won’t allow myself to ever make the same mistakes and choices again. It’s simply not worth the pain... I put my all my faith and strength in God and I know everything is possible through Him. Yes, I know I have certain weaknesses, and that’s why I’ve put certain precautions in place to protect my heart and mind from infidelity: I don’t allow myself to have close friends of the opposite sex anymore unless that person is a friend of both me and my H and our marriage and where both me and my H can share time with the person. No alone time with someone of the opposite sex.

<small>[ January 19, 2005, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Thanks to everyone posting. This is very helpful to me.

Mr. G

Great post!!

Question for WS's....
Did you feel that you were truly in love with the OP and that you no longer loved your spouse?

What opened your eyes that made you realize that you still loved your spouse and that the OP was not what you thought?


Just curious because my WH says he loves me like a sister. What makes my WH think he will be so much happier with OW?

Sorry....just have a lot on my mind today. My 15 anniv. is tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hi Tree,

“Did you feel that you were truly in love with the OP and that you no longer loved your spouse?”

Yes.

”What opened your eyes that made you realize that you still loved your spouse and that the OP was not what you thought?”

When I realized my mistake and fell apart, my H stood by me. My H is a better person all-around than FOM. It really didn’t take much for me to see that when I finally began to look at reality.

”What makes my WH think he will be so much happier with OW?”

I’m going to guess that he has fallen for the widespread belief that loving someone means being in the “honeymoon stage” all the time. I think most of the people at this site would agree that he is in for quite a shock.

The lovey-dovey part will wear off with OW, just like it does in any R or M eventually. There will be real-life, day-to-day events that all couples have to confront, and it isn’t always pretty. It takes maturity and, for some of us, lessons hard learned to keep loving someone even when the fun part wears off, or even wears thin.

I hope tomorrow isn't too hard on you, Tree. Do you think it would help you to plan to do something as a distraction, like go to the movies with your son or a friend, or something?

God bless,

Rose

Thank you for answering those questions Rose.
Yes, me and my son are going out to dinner and we even got each other gifts. I'm also going to the movie with a friend tomorrow afternoon.

I just don't know if my WH will ever see that he made a mistake. Even though I don't want him back it would be kinda nice to see some remorse and regret for what he's done and is still doing.

I'll answer in a bit Tree - I'm at work right now and can't play!

Questions:

1: At what point did you realize that you were not yourself?

My A lasted 5 months, about the 4 month in, I realized what a disaster I was making of my life, and I was trying to get out gracefully. I can look back now, almost a year from DDAY, and honestly tell you, I can not believe I did have an A. It is not who I am at all, yet, I did.


2: Could anyone have done anything to pull you out of the fog once you were in? If so; who and what?

Had my H found out during my A, he would have taken drastic measures to end it, and having him know, having him on the verge of leaving, I would have tried NC, although, I don't think in the midst of my A, NC would have stuck. When was is in the A, you need a hero, you are not yourself, you are addicted, you need to be saved. You need a LIGHTHOUSE to find your way home.

In all honesty, my A had run its course, I was done, and I confessed. However, the OM, was still in hot pursuit of me for months after. We don't all fall in love at the same time, and we don't all fall out of love at the same time. DISCLAIMER, that is just a saying, I did not feel I was truly in love with OM.

3: Were there moments, however fleeting, that you could see through the fog to the damage your actions were doing to your H, your children, etc.? If so, what were the situations and what kept you from leaving the fog?

My H was so disconnected from me emotionally, I could have had the A forever and he would have been unaffected. He was clueless, and so were my children. It was all done very privately, I had lots of time to myself. My H was always gone.
I could only see the damage I was causing OM's W and her kids. I was friends with OM's W, I talked to her daily, I heard her pain, she was fighting for her M, and all the while, I was the cause. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

4: What began the process of you leaving the fog once and for all?

Wasn't ever to thick for me, but the OM was very willing to leave his family. I had told him all along, I was not going to leave my H. He had moved out, he was basically stalking me. He was being very disrespectful to my H. He was manipulating my H, and I was disgusted by it. Yes, I realize I was doing the same to his W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I no longer seen OM in a positive light, his character flaws were like fireworks, flying up left in right, in very bright vibrant colors. He really hurt my H, and I could no longer watch it.

OM's W knew, but was in denial, she was still trying to be my friend, still trusting me, I just couldn't do it anymore.

5: Now that you're free from the fog; do you fear that you will return? If yes, or no; why?
I have made extreme changes in my life. I am a different person. I educated myself in the WHY's of A's and I have changed many behaviors of my own. I have read many books, learned from MB, I attended IC. My H and I have communicated fully for the first time in a 10 year marriage. We are both different people, our M is completely different.

We have both stepped up, and realized how precious our M is and we are both willing to make drastic changes in our life to make a happy M.

I WILL NEVER RETURN!!!!!! I now know how not to.

KY

I feel like I'm at a conference with a panel of experts answering questions from the audience.

FR you asked some good Q's. I have a few of my own I my ask later on a different thread.

One thing I've seen from the respondents though is that none pursued divorce as an option. Is my assumption correct?

Hi Tree!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you feel that you were truly in love with the OP and that you no longer loved your spouse? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I wasn’t in love with him – well I guess I was falling for him but now knowing how the brain chemicals work it was just an infatuation. At the time though I thought I was falling for him, I even told him so. I never fell out of love with my hubby but I was headed that way – I’m sure of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What opened your eyes that made you realize that you still loved your spouse and that the OP was not what you thought? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope I don’t get 2x4’d for this answer. I always knew I was meant to be with my hubby, God brought us together and we are to be together. I don’t have any horrible feelings for my OM. Let me take that back, his actions were wrong, horribly wrong. He pursued me when I tried to break it off. That in and of itself was wrong, but I do believe that he was caught up in the A as much as I – just as addicted.

My hubby would have a very different opinion of the OM and understandably so! It hasn’t been until recent months where I really have come to adore my husband for all that he has done for me. I mean he had legal grounds for a divorce and he stayed with me. I will never take that for granted because I think he’s a total hottie and a good guy and I am very lucky to be married to him – he could marry far better but again, he chose me!. It’s almost like it took something as major as an A to make me see that.

I’m so sorry Tree that you are going through all this mess. Fly on over here to So Cal and enjoy the sunny weather here. I’ll set you up at the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Beach – how’s that???!!!

Tom:

Just a quick answer to your question – I toyed with separation in my head but never truly pursued divorce, neither did my hubby.

(next questions from the floor, thank you chair TJ...)

Hi Tree,

Did you feel that you were truly in love with the OP and that you no longer loved your spouse?

I was questioning my love for my spouse before I met OM. The problem was that, instead of being open about it with H and addressing our issues, I was too afraid and apart from a few hints, mostly acted as though things were OK. I was strongly attracted and charmed by OM, but love... no I knew at the time that I wasn't in love with him.

What opened your eyes that made you realize that you still loved your spouse and that the OP was not what you thought?

I never felt that I had lost all my love for my H. Realising I still loved him passionately happened gradually after NC and Dday (for me, NC was before Dday).

Hope that helps,

And TJ - I also never thought seriously about D. I did think about separation after Dday when everything fell apart for both of us - but because I thought H hated me and would never recover. I wasn't in contact with OM then anymore.

<small>[ January 19, 2005, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: smur ]</small>

Hi Tom,

The divorce bird flies over our house, but so far has not built a nest!

When I confessed on d-day, I expected my H would want a divorce. I offered to move out, but after 3 soul-wrenching days and much prayer, he decided that he didn't want a D.

He has said that the first thing he thought after I told him was, "Oh, no, now I HAVE to D her," like people would expect him to, and that was his only choice. On the 4th day, we talked to our pastor, and he's the one who told my H that he didn't HAVE to D me. Jesus is quoted as saying that people CAN get D over adultery, but he didn't say they HAVE to.

We both agreed early on that D was still an option should either one of us feel like we couldn't go on with the horror that recovery can be (is).

There have been scary times when H and I both really thought we weren't going to make it. He has told me that at least once a day he feels like he can't do this anymore - that the pain is too great. BUT neither one of us really wants to D and are both working really hard to avoid it.

One thing my H really struggles with is that people will think he's weak for staying with me. I can't talk him out of that idea. I sometimes wish he would post here, but he finds it too painful even to read here.

Right now things are good, but we take things one day at a time. We lean heavily upon our faith, family, and friends to keep this M together. It ain't easy, as I'm sure you know.

God bless,

Rose

Thanks Rose for answering that.

What I really meant, was did the WW want or force a divorce after DDay. Did any of the FWW out there pursue a divorce, throw thier H out of the house, try to keep H from seeing kids, steal money from the bank, etc. Did they flaunt their adultury in thier H's face?

It seems that the FWW on here have been fairly cognizant of thier actions despite any fog. They may have decieved thier husbands but after DDay at least tried to keep the marriage together, even if sometimes thier attempts failed.

I guess it is too much to ask if any FWW out there were outlandishly cruel and then woke up.

I'm sorry for the rant. Believe me that this is not a 2X4 for anyone. I admire the efforts and honesty of the people who responded.

The wounds I've suffered over the past 7 months have not begun to heal. I did not have a WW like the ones posting here.

.

.

TJ...
I agree with you...I also feel like my WH is different from most FWH on here. Maybe he's not but I just can't seem to find anyone else who's WS acts like mine. I guess he's a special alien kind!!!!

Thanks to everybody for answering my questions. I guess I'm just trying to find a way to understand my WH.....almost impossible!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tom Joad:
<strong> I did not have a WW like the ones posting here.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TJ, I am in the same boat, WW has been all too happy to flaunt OM and push him on my kids, she moved him & his kids in her apartment, and even registered their upcoming wedding using our home computer the day after d-day. no sign of any remorse on her part, maxed out her credit cards, $1000 phone bill, left 4 me etc...

I get encouragement from the brave FWWs in here, but like you, I haven't seen any that are like our WWs seem to be

I also have not healed yet, and maybe one day we will meet, and we can share our experiences over a cold one, but until then I (& hopefully you as well) will continue to plod on 1 day at a time.

You guys will heal...

I really enjoy answering these questions. I mean I don't enjoy like I enjoy Disneyland, chocolate, or classical music. It's just very, I don't know how to say it. Cathartic - yah, I like the sound of that. These are challenging questions and they have given me a chance to think about my actions, personality, emotions, etc. By answering them it's like I am letting go of some of the crap that I have hung on to.

My Answers on TreeReich’s questions:

Did you feel that you were truly in love with the OP and that you no longer loved your spouse?

Yes, for a long time I did feel that I were in love with the OP but I never felt that I no longer loved my H. However, for some time during my fog and withdrawal I did feel very confused about my feelings for XOM and questioned my feelings for my H. This was all part of the ‘fog’ and my own lack of knowledge and understanding about the nature of love and the differences between infatuation; “falling” in love and mature love in a M. I didn’t understand how it could be possible to develop such deep “in love” feelings for another man while you still loving your own spouse… I thought it couldn’t be possible to have feelings for two persons at the same time. However, I have read and researched a lot on this topic and discovered the following:

People and especially WS’s often confuse real, stable & mature love (which can only be obtained through a long, committed relationship like a M) with the first stages of immature, puppy love when people “fall” in love and when hormones and chemicals are running high… These are 2 completely different types of love (mature & immature) and many people often expect to always have those “in love” feelings for their partner. They think something is wrong with the M if those euphoric feelings wears off… When the WS then get involved with someone else and experience those early stages of love & feelings again, they start to say to their spouses: “I love you, but I’m not in love with you”. I thought the same thing after my EA ended, but I have learned and grown and realized that I was indeed “in love” with my H, but in a more mature way. I have learned there is a difference between “falling” in love and “being” in love: Spouses don’t stop to love each other, but instead, love transforms and develops into something more mature and stable.

The following is from a website link and very insightful:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Falling in love is obviously not confined to infidelity. Most contemporary marriages start out with romantic love. But, therapists say, couples have to grow up and understand that "feelings of love are neither steady nor constant but travel in natural cycles," as Abrahms Spring puts it. "If your relationship doesn't live up to your ideas about love, the problem may be not with your relationship but with your ideas," she writes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What opened your eyes that made you realize that you still loved your spouse and that the OP was not what you thought?

Knowledge and understanding as explained in my answer to the first question. Lifting of the fog also helped me to realize this.

Suzet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess it is too much to ask if any FWW out there were outlandishly cruel and then woke up.

I'm sorry for the rant. Believe me that this is not a 2X4 for anyone. I admire the efforts and honesty of the people who responded.

The wounds I've suffered over the past 7 months have not begun to heal. I did not have a WW like the ones posting here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tom Joad - Yes, Tom (and Hosea_2004), there are FWW's who "were outlandishly cruel and then woke up. "

I'll not hijack Fishracer's thread, but I thought you both needed to hear that others have had wives who claimed to be deeply in love with their OM and planned to divorce. I am still married to "one of those" former wayward wives.

If you want to read more I can give you links to my original threads (probably best to post something like that, or to continue a conversation, on a separate thread).

I will add that if you have not yet read Torn Asunder by Dave Carder, you need to. What your wives are involved in are Class II affairs, and they are the hardest, especially when it is the woman who is in the affair, but they are not "hopeless."

Also, I don't know whether or not your wives are Christians, but I personally believe that their fundamental faith belief has a lot to do with recovery possibilities. I DO know how hard this sort of thing is on you, so you are both in my thoughts and prayers.

(((((Tom Joad, Hosea_2004)))))

FH, thanks for that reminder.

Thoe folks reading on here who only see my own recovery going pretty well may not remember that my Squid was one of those viciously spiteful WS who wanted a divorce and to set up home with her new soul mate OM.

I too am with her with every hope of recovery thank God.

You must learn the dynamics of affairs by studying books like Torn Asunder and surviving an affair and by testing their premises against stories on this board.

Knowledge is power in recovering from affairs honestly.