</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mortarman:
<strong> Okay,

Let me make this short. You received some good information from her, mixed in with babble. The point is to cull out what she has said and get to the meat of it, and ignore the crap.

She said she wants the marriage. Her actions show that is true. How? Well, she hasnt run off and left and signed divorce papers, has she? She is still talking about sex and other stuff with you, right? So, she is still in the "game." But, she is also still in the fog.

There is a lot of pain there. Some that you have caused. A lot that she has caused due to this affair. To come out of the fog means that she has to confront that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's where I'm so confused, Mortarman! I have repeatedly told her that I would giv her every single detail (as much as I can remember) of my EA of four years ago - ANYTHING she may want to know - in hopes that it might make her feel more confortable telling me about what she did. But she refuses both to listen to me - she will asj a question, and then interrupt with some off the wall blow up about something that I did years ago - told her that I thought a book she was reading was dumb, or something like that. I UNDERSTAND THAT'S THE FOG.

But what I don't understand is what happened this morning. She went to her own IC, who informed her that her business is private, and I have no business prying into her personal life. SHe then went into a tirade about how I snooped on her and caused all the turmoil in our marriage.

I mentioned that I respect her privacy, but that it was the secrecy that bothered me - that I was seeing all the signs of an affair - especially after she directly lied to me when I asked where she had gone the morning I watched her put on her sexiest underwear, nicest looking clothes, and leave while I was sleeping (I was sort of pretending I was asleep while I watched her get ready.). When I asked her where she went, she told me to a friends house. Now unless she's having a lesbian affair, I know that's not why she wore that underwear. And then later that day I found the map to the OMs house on my truck seat. That's when I went in and 'snooped' thru her password protected email. And found all sorts of horrible, hurtful things.

And she told me I should have asked her for permission. I had already asked why she password protected it - she gave the lamest excuse, red flags were already flyng. Even if I had asked permission -I can guarantee that I would have found nothing on her computer. I was told by a councellor that it was wrong for me to snoop like that, but Dr Harley says there should be no resaon to hide anything like that.

She told me the dumbest (foggiest) thing: "You want me to be in the present with you and leave your past transgressions in the past" - I've already appologiszed over and over for what I did, and said that I would take it all back if I could. I did what I hope was an acceptable Reverse Babble, I said, "You're right - my transgressions should be in the present and you should be in the past", but I wish I hadn't said that 'cause I think she's going to be even more angry now.

I know, Mortarman, that things are on God's hands and on His time - but I need to talk to someone now. I read my bible all the time, but I do know he puts us together for this same reason.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>But get this (and I had to learn this the hard way)...SHE has to do it. You can not tell her, educate her, manipulate her, demand of her, etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, and I need to back off on all forms of trying to communicate about this thing. It's just that it hurts so much to know that she was in the arms of some other , better looking, smarter, younger guy - and may still be. And if I can't snoop, how am I going to know? How do I bite my toungue and keep giving to her Taker, when I suspect she's getting what she wants from both of us?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It is like that in the fog. They need to re-attach with reality. And that is not done over night. It takes one step at a time. The damage has been done. In order to get out of it, they need to do this at their pace.

So, what does that mean for you? It means, just sit back and watch. If you write a journal, it may help. It will help because you will be able to go back at times and read...and watch her progress. With her starting off saying "we're thru." To the current "I want to work on this, but you have devastated me." You can watch the changes. It is hard to see them day-to-day. But over time, you will notice.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've filled one journal already in the past week with my thoughts.

I know it didn't happen overnight - but it seems to me that the healthiest thing would be to look at this as a chance to start with a clean slate - work thru the questionaires, find out what each other's LBs and ENs are, and go forward from there. She wants to focus on all her hurts - she keeps re-opening them to get the fresh rush of pain....it's not right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>You are going to have to trust God on this one. And just do what you can. Dont worry about an apology.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>


Don't worry about an appology? When I had my affair, we went to our Pastor and he made sure I appologized and asked her forgiveness. Why should I expect to just let this slide and go on like nothing happened? This happened in my first marriage and I just let it end without a fight. Is that what you are suggesting now?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>You may never get one. Shoot, my wife is just now reaching the point of getting to anything like that. And believe me, there are times where she still says "well, you did this in the past, which caused that..." Retraining the brain!!

You can't make your wife do anything, and especially be what she should be overnight. Just like you wouldnt expect the brain damaged guy I was talking about to just jump up and be normal tomorrow.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally understand that - but she is deliberately hurting me with every breath, and it is getting too painful. I'm already on my knees praying every chance I get, I'm taking way too much Xanax, I'm on Prozac, I have Valium if I need it - and I still am hurting and angry and confused. HOW DO I SORT THIS INTO SOMETHING THAT WON'T AFFECT MY KIDS OR WORK?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What does God say is your role as husband? It is different than the role given to the wife. My wife used to say "many women are mad at the word "submit." But I dont see it that way. I see you having the harder job. Because I am called to submit and respect you...you are called to love me like Christ loves us...to die for me."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just read up on that, and I'm trying to imagine what He went thru - He went thru much worse - for people that not only wanted to divorce him, but wanted him dead and gone as well, and He went thru with it for their benefit. But I'm not Christ - I can't save my wife, no matter what I do. And the thought of losing a frined like that is kinda hard to bear. I know there are plenty of wonderful women out there that would never do this to me, would be willing to work hard at a marriage - but I vowed myself to this one, and I want this one to work. Yes, as my wife keeps reminding me, thats totally selfish, but by gum, its true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Do you have the same love for her as Christ has for you? If you dont, then you have a lot of work to do.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, you're right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>God doesnt ask of us to do things that we cant do. If He tells us to do something, He will also give us the power to do so. So, call on Him. Lean on Him. Ask Him for the answers.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, man. I need to do something. It's very lonely, and she's leaving ALL the housework, kids, everything for me right now to punish me for snooping and being untrustworthy. I'm not untrustworthy, any more than any other person, and I went thru an affair - I saw the hurt it cause my family. I am angry that she chooses to blame me for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>You see, we all have a lot of work to do. And it really doesnt matter what our spouses do or dont do. You do what you are supposed to do. God will take care of the rest.

In His arms. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you again.

Still depressed! I'll get over it somehow. God willing.

David

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>