I'd like to add three famous people to the list...
1)JLo (ho)
2)her h, Mark Anthony
3)Garth Brooks

I'd like to add 6 famous people to the list...
1)JLo (ho)
2)her h, Mark Anthony
3)Garth Brooks
4)Former Tarnished Gospel Queen--Amy Grant
5)her H, Vince Gill
6)Trisha Yearwood (OW of Garth)

I'd like to add 6 famous people to the list...
1)J(ho)Lo
2)her h, Mark Anthony
3)Garth Brooks
4)Tarnished Gospel Queen--Amy Grant (would NEVER buy any of these people's records ever again btw)
5)her H, Vince Gill
6)Trisha Yearwood (OW of Garth)

***1)JLo (ho)
2)her h, Mark Anthony***

Dayanara Torres, Marc Anthony's beauty queen ex-wife and mother of his children, was quoted as referring to J-Lo as "La Puerca" (The Pig.) Now, if that's not the perfect name I don't know what is.
Mulan

Given the infidelity numbers, I guess it's hard to find somebody who hasn't cheated or been cheated on. One of the things to me is the costs of cheating. It seems to me that people having affairs seem to let a lot of other things go. Like the way we see time and time again how WS ignore their children. There's the callusness of inflicting pain on innocent people. The wounded BS. Especially those who flaunt it. If your finger in on the button for the nuclear bomb, do we need you thinking about how you're going to accomplish your SF tonight? No, I think we'd like you to concentrate.

My thoughts about JFK and the entire Kennedy family haven't been the same since his A's were exposed.

DP

<small>[ January 20, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

If the focus is on their bad behavior, absolutely not.

However, if we could see Jack Welch turn his life around and become a man of integrity, I'd very much like for my children to see that lesson.

Again, where does it stop? Alexander Hamilton was killed in a dual because he was a philanderer. Do we discount his pivotal role in the birth of this nation? Thomas Jefferson? Ben Franklin? Famous adulterers.

Who will be our heroes and for what will we admire them.

How many emergency workers who were also adulterers dies in 9/11. Are they not heroes?

How many soldiers died for my freedom abroad? I'm sure that more than few were gettin' a little sumpn sumpn on the side. Are they not heroes anyway?

Low

Others to add to the WS list:

Ronald Reagan
Dwight Eisenhower
Newt Gingrich

Who will be our heroes and for what will we admire them.

Excellent point Low!

And what is the point of this infidelity board? Will you work this hard at Plan A/ Plan B to get your WS back, only to have disdain and lack of respect for them? That to me is the ultimate hypocrisy and deception.

Originally posted by Low Orbit:

This is a hopeless path...

Yep, shortsighted too, obviously. The thread started with the likes of Sagan, Roosevelt, MLK and Albert Einstein and now it's about J.Lo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Parents should look for every opportunity to teach values to children, and all of the above screwed up. What an excellent object lesson to impart your premium on the sanctity of marriage!

Celebrity infidelity is actually an teaching opportunity that shouldn't be wasted but remember, kids aren't stupid. Dismiss the work these people have done and the kids will dismiss YOU. If you don't want your kids to look up to some of these people then be careful what you say, consider the person as a whole while still making your point about how what they did by having an A was wrong. Bitterness is not a good teacher folks and the sooner you let it go, the better of you and your family will be.

And what is the point of this infidelity board? Will you work this hard at Plan A/ Plan B to get your WS back, only to have disdain and lack of respect for them? That to me is the ultimate hypocrisy and deception.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Weaver, awesome! That's really the problem isn't it? Oh well, people are at different stages of recovery so maybe this thread will be pivotal in helping people to see that the dismissal mindset will affect their personal and marital recovery negatively. Wise words, Weaver! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

"Others to add to the WS list:

Ronald Reagan
Dwight Eisenhower
Newt Gingrich"

I saw a dis2rbing interview with "The Salamander" himself this past weekend. Seems he MAY be considering running for President in 4 years.

I'm moving 2 Novosibirsk if that happens.

-ol' 2long

OK guys, where are we?

There are two issues here ... ok three. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

1) Can a "sinner" be forgiven?

If the answer is no, go directly to plan D.

2) Can your WS be a respected member of your family some time in the future - forgiven, restored and respected?

If the answer is no, go directly to plan D.

3) In the larger community or society, can a person who has serious failures in matters of trust in his person's personal life still serve as a role model or as a functioning part of society?

I think the answer is "yes". A good gardener can still beautify a corner of the community even if he cheats on his wife - and looking at his example as a gardener still makes sense to me. If my child needs surgery, I still want the most skilled surgeon even if she cheats on her H. You get the picture.

That's my view of it.

{but I'm not a fan of Bill...
A man who cheats on his W will likely cheat me too - and cheat the company - or the country.)


-AD

<small>[ January 20, 2005, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Excellent AD! I love that.

Knewbetter, your example of using as a teaching tool. I am right with you. I cannot separate the acts from the person, good or bad. We are all of our acts combined. A whole person, with all the failities and imperfections.

And the greatest of all that we are capable of, in my opinion is forgiveness and acceptance that we are all only human. The greater our gifts to mankind the bigger the scrunity, and the less acceptance people have of our humanity. What a shame.

Not a new subject, is it? Have you ever seriously thought about how many were mentioned in the Bible - not the least of which was David, who had OWH killed so he could be with her. Whoops! That's two of the big TEN. But God forgave him and caused Messiah to be born of his lineage.

I think if I tried I could list about 20 right off the top of my head - Biblical examples.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is a successful person still a successful person if he is an Adulterer </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess that depends on the person on the outside looking in and what moral boundaries they have in place..I do not post here very often because I fought a long fight to save my marriage and put my beautiful family back together but as the old saying goes it takes two willing parties to make a marriage work..I will give you the Reader's Digest of my life and let you be the judge if you think my STBX deserves to be called a successful person in Jo Public's eyes...the one comment I have after reading story after story of the WS's who leave and treat the ones left behind as if they never existed saddens me deeply..I guess I have to thankful I do not have young children at home...now on to my story...married at 20...started out with nothing..left home and family and moved from site job to site job in isolation and great wages to get ahead..my son was a baby at the time and I made many sacrifices..right off the bat WS made it clear he was working his way up the success ladder and therefore I would be home and care for our son...once my son started school I found part time employment with great hours 10 to 3 so that I could get my son off to school and be home for him when he returned from school...WS sometimes would have to travel for business so this was a great set-up..after living this lifestyle for ten plus years ..we decided to move back home..during this time we managed to sock money away and in fact flew home in our own plane...WS then decided to open a business.. he has always been very intelligent and seemed to have the midas touch...he always looked after all the financial end of things.. I looked after the household duties and making sure there was always someone home for our son...to make a long story short business was successful..fast forward to two years ago..after our life long struggles and sacrifices we are now living on easy street...WS is a successful businessman in our home town..we have all the bells and whistles...we are retired and spend our winters at our home in Florida..our son is married and we have two beautiful granddaughters...daugher-in-law's parents are our best friends and we have just returned from a month long trip to Europe..every holiday is celebrated together...then the bomb drops..I notice WS is becoming distant..starts hanging out in bars..coming home drunk...keep in mind this personality change is mind boggling..WS has always put his family first and adores his grandchildren..so what happened..to this day everyone who knew us is floored and would have bet a million bucks that this would not be happening to us...I ask WS why the change and if he is seeing anyone and we all know the drill.. I am paranoid, etc. etc.. on my son's anniversary I find a receipt in my vehicle..for an out of the way place I know he was not supposed to be at...he says it belongs to someone else...I am pretty good at detective work and realize he has used my credit card to pay for an outing at a restaurant..he still denies...the worse thing for me he was never upfront with anything... I always had to find out on my own.. conflict avoider..so to summarize found out WS had been living a double life..of yes he was very discreet and good at hiding everything..I guess that is why I was so shocked...in the end I found out he has had mutiple affairs...suspect they were going on when he said he had to go out of town for business.. he flew OW to Florida and put her up in a hotel 30 miles from our home in Florida while I was there...cell bill for one month alone was 1200.00..he removed wedding ring and he and OW told her children he was not married..since 2000 found out he had subcribed to friendfinders.com...you see he made the mistake of bringing home household files from his office as he wanted me to start taking over the paying of the bills when we tried to reconcile..after investigating our finances see our accounts have been drained..WS spent money like crazy..find out we owe 47k on outstanding bills...now only money left is what we have socked away for retirement...WS is smart though..after he leaves he decides to try his hand at a new business..now that we are separated I have no dibs on this... so here I am 52 years old thinking at this stage of my life I would be sharing my retirement with WS, my son and his children.. taking them to Disney in the winter and now realize I have to scrimp every cent that is left in retirement savings to live...by the way WS states he has no income so therefore no maintenance support...he has literally walked away..I have filed for Divorce in order to preserve what little is left for my financial future...recently I see a big spread in my local newspaper with a picture of WS bragging about his new business venture..so folks is this man a Successful person?

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

New Outlook,

I read your story with sadness. And in my eyes, YOU are a success. You have survived a horrendous attack to your soul, to your heart, to your very belief in mankind, and to your family. But you are still here, still striving.

Striving to understand what is not understandable is what gives me the most grief I have come to realize. So I no longer try to understand anything other than "that which I would become". And this change in me alone has brought me peace.

You are a success and I can understand that, that makes sense to me and gives me hope. I can not think about your WS because it makes no sense to me. Pointless, useless pain brought into the lives of a family because of the fathers diseased soul is not within my realm of understanding.

weaver

Thank you for your kind words Weaver <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> my reason in posting my story is to make a point...everyone has the choice in life on what path to journey down...we have all been taught the basic principals of right and wrong..it takes a courageous person to admit mistakes made in life and correct them.. I think I can safely say our admiration for those folks is high on the list from 1 to 10...in my WS's case all the way down the pike he willingly made the wrong the choices...my sadness at this time is that even though he created this mess he continues to bury his head in the sand...I am now left with no recourse but to try to clean it up with the filing of Divorce petition.. I have come along way since that Discovery Day...I have become a stronger, wiser individual and have learned that I can survive on my own...this is a wonderful gift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

To quote from my wise 82 year old Mom: " It's not what life deals you but how you handle the situation!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Just because I can admire one aspect of their accomplishments doesn't mean I let them off the hook over all.

I will not, cannot, vote for Rudy (if I ever get the chance) for the reasons you state.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT, I could not agree with you more.
He really burns my cookies and I have ZERO respect for this man.

Readers Digest did an article on him about a year ago. He talked about how important it was to have someone (his ow) "standing by" through tough times, blah, blah, blah.
What about his wife? Why could HE stand by thorugh tough times.
And the way he did it in the public eye was terrible.

Also, in the papers, Julia Roberts was pictured wearing a t-shirt that said "A Low Vera" (get it, aloe vera?). The wife of the guy she was having an affair with was named Vera and Julia was complaining about her.
Talk about low.
I do not watch Julia Roberts movies.

It's one thing to have had an affair and even gotten divorced over it, but to play it up as some kind of "good thing" IMNSHO, shows extremely poor character.

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

I'm not up Rudy G but my H heard him in an interview talking about how the original wife was not supportive of him during his chemo treatments. Apparently the wife wouldn't give him the time of day. H remembers specifically that he said he had to clean up his own vomit, she wouldn't even hand him the sponge. The affair happened after his cancer was diagnosed and treated.

There are many ways to betray someone and not standing by them in times of life threatening illness has got to be one of the most major LBs possible. If what Rudy G says is true, it puts a whole new light on the situation. No excuses for Rudy, he should have taken the option of divorcing her but if what he says is true about her behavior prior to the affair, his BS certainly shouldn't have been crowing to the hills about how she was so betrayed either. I do remember feeling sorry for her and thinking what a complete jerk he was but honestly after hearing this, I'm not too sure.