Not much progress. I don't know what her feelings are. She’s said she wants to leave put can't take that first step out the door. I don't know if that’s her anger or what. Maybe I'm in denial. I discovered her secret friend last July. I've been working through her 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' since then. She kept some contact with OM, greatly reduced, put it was picking up again. I told OM's wife just before Christmas about what I thought was an EA. It been hell since. Over 6 weeks of hell. A bit better, but we don't talk about issues or much else. This past week she just figured out OM's wife hates her. She then realized he is pretty much out of the picture (I'm fairly sure he is not about to leave his wife). That was Thursday and that night she told me it should have been her decision to stop talking with OM. She keeps saying she doesn't see anything wrong with talking on the phone. Good point, but timing the calls when I just leave the house and then resorting to a phone card tell me otherwise. He's the only friend who never calls on the home phone, always a cell phone, and he never uses him home phone either.

I want to ask her if she wants to work things out somehow, but I'm affraid of the answer. Even if she says no I won't believe her. I don't even know what steps to take. She's also said she doesn't want to see another counselor (we both have our own counselors).

Is still affair fog?

Mark - I still hear regret in your words for exposing the affair to OM's wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MarkNY:
<strong>She then realized he is pretty much out of the picture (I'm fairly sure he is not about to leave his wife). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you hadn't exposed, this would not be taking place.

WAT

I want to ask her if she wants to work things out somehow, but I'm affraid of the answer. Even if she says no I won't believe her. I don't even know what steps to take.

Yeah, the BS always has to bite their tongue to avoid R talk 24x7. You're getting wiser though - you realize that even if she does answer you, her answer can't be trusted. She's just nowhere near that yet.

What steps should you take?
Plan A!
Meet ENs. Avoid LBs. Watch the show (knowing that her anger is good and expected), and wait. Focus on yourself and do something you enjoy. I hear pottery classes are in vogue now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A couple of things. Yes I do regret exposing this to OM's wife. Simple put things would e much easier on me and our relationship would not have hit this low. It was shaky before and this virtually colapsed it.

Next, what am I waiting for? When will she come around? Will she come around?

Why do I think I'm in denial? If she said yes lets work on this I'd belief her - thats what I want to hear. If she says she wants to leave but lacks the courage, doesn't want to see a marriage counselor, does see how things could ever possibly get better. Tells me my hugs don't comfort her. Why don't I belief that? Denial comes to mind as a real possibilty. Maybe she IS telling me what she really thinks.

anyone?

This is me:

Tell her to leave the home and go plan B.

Tell her to let OM take care of all her ENs.

Wash your hands, but let her know she is welcomed if she changes her mind

Thanks Stanley, but I'll pass on that right now. I'm not ready for that. I don't want her out of my life and her leaving could very well make that a reality. There is very little left of my marriage right now and I won't be able to recover from many more blunders.

Things sure point to an emotional affair but by removing OM by telling his wife I made a big mess of things. I felt there was some progress with my wife before that. I just couldn't take the sneaky phone calls any more. Its been 7 weeks and 'exposing' this to OM's wife has proven to be nothing but a love buster.

We're still living together, but theres no conversation or cooperation - well very little. She said she wants to leave but hasn't for practical reasons. Could be a hurtful statement, could be the truth. We accepted an invite to a super bowl party and still have plans for our family ski trip at the end of this month. I don't know what to think anymore.

She is busy with work and school and finds them overwhelming. I don't know when a good time is to talk about things. Even to ask her what does she want from me (ENs).

Advice from here is what gave me the though, no obsession, to tell OM's wife. Things have just gotten worse.

Mark,

No, it's not time for Plan B I don't think. If you're going to Plan A you have a lot of work to do. But it sounds like you're not convinced that MB principles are correct.

You probably know some of her ENs already.

Can you say what ENs you have had a problem fulfilling in the past?

Well we are well provided for financially. Not rich, but comfortable.
She doesn't like effection much and says she dislikes sex. Now we barely kiss hello and good bye.
Recreational companion - I tried to get her involved in some together things but she is too busy for things. A lot of what we do together we do with the kids. Right now she is so angry anything here would just be a flop.
I tell her she attractive and she is.

She doesn't use me as her sounding board. She has lots of issues (and I'm one of them). She feels she can't talk to me. This is what I'm trying right now. I'm not sure about this one because it will involve relationship talk. She has many issues in her life right now. She's doubting her career, her marriage, etc. She ranted a bit this morning,. but I had to take a lead by asking is there something I can do to help - with anything. I s there something I should be doing on not doing? She told me there's nothing I can do. She brought up a lot of old fairly trival things, but added up they take a toll.

Should I continue to coax her to talk? I mean by saying things like 'what's on your mind?'

She has lots of issues and is a very depressed person and has been for over a year at least. She questions her whole life right now. She says she's giving up on her therapy (individual cousleor never did marriage therapy), I don't know if there's any truth to it. She said 'talking doesn't help'. Somehow I don't think she's giving up, but she keeps her appointments private lately. I won't know for sure until the benefits statements come in months later.

Even when asked she can't say what she needs or wants right now. She just says she needs time to sort things out. Honestly I don't know how much more I can take.

I don't know if I would use the word coax. There are probably a lot of things on her mind right now that she doesn't feel she can talk to you about. I would be available to listen whenever she wants to talk. And then just listen or ask questions that keep it going. Try to ask questions to try and understand where maybe it's not making sense.

Another tip, "Can I do anything to help?" can be a conversation ender, as in, is there's something I can do to solve your problem. She doesn't want you to solve it for her, she just wants to talk about it.

It's good that she is talking to you. If you can just listen she may open up a bit.

Keep posting so we know how it's going.

Regarding exposure, she'll get over it. You did the right thing even though you may be suffering short term consequences. When the affair ends your job becomes much simpler.

legato,
Thanks for your input. I'll just be there to listen. But isn't there sometime I should talk? I just can't keep quite forever. I'm becoming more aware that if I try to defend myself or try to convince her there were many good times and love she'll just try harder to prove otherwise. When does this end?

My wife is very intelligent and is re-evalauating our marriage. Things were rocky before, but not all that bad in hindsight. I've set back the clock big time.

As for her eamtional affair, the ear marks are there. Letters from a year ago now that are extremely suggestive of an affair. She states its just her writing things down, putting her innermost thoughts on paper. She insists the letters were never sent. I was willing to accpt this explanation back in July and told her to open up her friendship (have him call our home instead of cell phone). This didn't happen and cell phone calls continued at hours when I was not around. She did try some opening up. We would go to breakfast with his family after church. But calls still continued anyway. The last straw was her using a phone card to call him. That was done to avoid my detection of her contact with him. Now she didn't use that exclusively, she didn't hide everything. She was well aware I could and did look at her cell usage (phone's in my name so I get full access to usage data, but it is 'her' phone). She says I drove her to such measures, that she was uncomfortable talking to him in my presence and felt avoiding the issue was the best approach (hide calls with phone card and I then assume there were calls from work). Before Christams he gave us (and some other families) a ham. When I saw it my wife said this is from you know who (meats are his trade). Why did she find it so difficult to mention his name?

Now to complicate things his twin girls are in the same grade as my son. There are school and church events we must attend. My wife started to develop a circle of friends that frequently coincided with him. This is most upsetting to her, she feels all her friends are gone. There will be times when certain social events will be awkward at best. There's not much avoiding them.

Now could my wife have actually put those year old romanic feelings behind her and really develop a plutonic relationship with him? Am I just acting like a jealous idiot?

I'm becoming more aware that if I try to defend myself or try to convince her there were many good times and love she'll just try harder to prove otherwise. When does this end?
My wife is very intelligent and is re-evalauating our marriage. Things were rocky before, but not all that bad in hindsight. I've set back the clock big time.


I would say 100% of WWs try to rewrite marital history. Or they will place emphasis on events that occurred 20 years ago as if though they were relevant today. On the other end of the spectrum sometimes the BH has been a lousy spouse and the WW is simply leaving the marriage and the affair happens to be the exit.

Be honest with yourself and assess your marriage. Perhaps it was great------ but these affairs also developed in great marriages when the WW is simply bored or has FOO issues.

If you allow the wife to continue this in your face affair you will continue to lose ground. Better take a big hit now that to continue to leak oil forever.


As for her eamtional affair, the ear marks are there. Letters from a year ago now that are extremely suggestive of an affair. She states its just her writing things down, putting her innermost thoughts on paper. She insists the letters were never sent. I was willing to accpt this explanation back in July and told her to open up her friendship (have him call our home instead of cell phone). This didn't happen and cell phone calls continued at hours when I was not around. She did try some opening up. We would go to breakfast with his family after church. But calls still continued anyway. The last straw was her using a phone card to call him. That was done to avoid my detection of her contact with him.


You have known about this for a long time and she has acted in a defiant manner. Did you talk to OM and asked him to stop before spilling the beans to the wife’s OM? Is this OM so low that he continues this activity while hiding behind your wife’s skirt? You need to confront the SOB! Remember, OM is a coward, do not be afraid!


She was well aware I could and did look at her cell usage (phone's in my name so I get full access to usage data, but it is 'her' phone). She says I drove her to such measures, that she was uncomfortable talking to him in my presence and felt avoiding the issue was the best approach (hide calls with phone card and I then assume there were calls from work). Before Christams he gave us (and some other families) a ham. When I saw it my wife said this is from you know who (meats are his trade). Why did she find it so difficult to mention his name?
Now to complicate things his twin girls are in the same grade as my son. There are school and church events we must attend. My wife started to develop a circle of friends that frequently coincided with him. This is most upsetting to her, she feels all her friends are gone. There will be times when certain social events will be awkward at best. There's not much avoiding them.


Put your foot down. You will need to change schools, church, ect. You may even need to move to a different city. Who says that you have to out up with this?



Now could my wife have actually put those year old romanic feelings behind her and really develop a plutonic relationship with him? Am I just acting like a jealous idiot?


All------- 100% of relationships cool off------- yours is no exception. Most of these relationships can be rekindled. However, as long as there is contact with OM there is no chance.

Simply tell WW she must be NC with OM. This must be a line in the sand for you. If she insists to have OM in her life while she is married to you there will be no resolution. She is also telling you in a very direct manner she has no regard for you.

As I said before------ put her out on the street and call OM to pick her up if she is not willing to go NC. Do not provide any ENs. Let OM do all the work. You see OMs are only good with the smooth talk---- the bull-dookie! Once, they are faced with taking care of the rest of the bill they fail.

If this is not an exit affair she is likely to be a major cake eater and you are facilitating this.

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Hello, I am new to the discussion board and this is my first post. I am posting here because I didn’t know where to start and I am in need of some guidance. I have read the MB site thoroughly a few times but still do not understand my situation. Sorry if this is so long. Here we go.


My wife (33) and I (33) have been married for 10 years. I just found out 4 weeks ago that my wife was having an EA with the OM from her of work. All the signs were there a couple weeks before I found out and I didn’t want to believe it. I found out by reading emails on the computer. I do know it was “slightly” physical but I think it was mostly an EA. I am also not sure how long it was going on. I would say probably 2 months. The OM works in the same building as she does. She is at that building 3 days a week and at another building 2 days a week. When I confronted her about the A she denied it until I showed her printed emails. Within a day, she committed to breaking it off and having NC with the OM. However, they work together and I know that is impossible. I have asked her to resign at work or move into another position but she has refused. She says she loves her job to much. As far as I can tell (and I have been watching closely) she has not had any contact with OM (unless at work). She did tell me she had a meeting with him the other day and it was strictly business and other people were around. She will not talk about the A. If I bring it up she says she wants to leave and that it is too painful for her. She says she is angry with me and resentful that it came to this because I didn’t show my emotions enough in the past. I am willing to accept that I didn’t and work on it. I am in therapy for it now for it. I am willing to forgive her and commit to making this work. I have been expressing my feeling with her and she does not return any feelings. She said the only reason she committed to trying to make it work was because of our 2 children (4 and 5 yrs old). The last few weeks have been rocky for us emotionally up and down. The first 2 weeks the stress could have been cut by a knife. She was sleeping in a different room. Now she is now sleeping in the same room but we have had absolutely no physical contact what so ever. It is like there is a line drawn down the middle of the bed. She says she wants to make it work but I get very little positive vibes that she is trying. However, I did get some. She asked for a night out last weekend for us (just the 2 of us). We went to the mall and then out to eat. We had a great time but it was like friends. No hand holding, no hugging or talking about our true feelings. She will not tell me she loves me, I guess it is because she doesn’t. Is that something she can get over? What about the no physical contact we have had? I miss just laying in bed holding each other. I know I am a man and wired differently than a women but I need the emotional part just as much to go on very long and I am not getting it. I am trying to follow plan A but am wondering how long I can go on with it. It has only been 4 weeks but I do not really know what is reasonable to see some improvement. I just pray daily that she will let down her wall against me. I do love her very much but it is hard when it is not reciprocating. Any support/insight would be appreciated.

Yes, it's ok for you to talk and tell her how you feel. But as you say, defending yourself will not work. It's perfectly fine to talk about your feelings. I would imagine that your drinking had to do with numbing your own feelings so now would be a good time to explore those feelings, with her if she is willing to listen.

If I were you I would work on Plan A but set a limit on how long you will continue.

You cannot compromise on NC. No, it can never be platonic. She has crossed the line. Every time she has contact it revives those feelings. It is addiction. As long as she is having feelings for him her feelings for you cannot be restored.

So your Plan A should consist of:

1. Improving yourself and becoming an expert at fulfilling her needs and
2. Negotiating NC.

Continue reading. Get copies of "Surviving An Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs" and develop a strategy to try and restore your marriage.

options,

I would suggest starting your own topic. Veteran Marriage Builders are here that can advise you.

Briefly, she is still having contact though perhaps infrequent but at some point it's going to have to stop. I wouldn't expect to see real improvement until NC is established. Continue reading basic concepts and others' stories to learn how to deal with this situation.

Thanks, legato. I will do that. I appreciate the insight too. I do think see is having some contact with OM but I cannot prove it since it is at work. She has committed to NC but is she really sticking to it? It sounds like my situation is very similar to markny. I will start a new post. Thanks

options

Just an update.

Another weeknd gone by. We went to a party Saturday night. Things went OK as in there were people to socialize with and take the pressure off of us. The drive to and from was bad. Nothing to say. I tried to make small talk but got nothing back. She did wear her engagement ring (rings have been off since Christmas. She wore it again Sunday to church. I don't want to say anything about it fearing she'll take it off in retribution. She knows it bothers me she doesn't wear her rings. I feel this has some message to it, but not sure what it is.

How can we break all this tension, just let time pass?

Options, I think we in a very similar situation. Kinly take a look at Suzet's posting addressed to me. BBB

Mark,

Tension. Like real quiet, thinking about something else? She probably has a lot of confusing ideas bouncing around in her head.

There's not much that you can do really other than try to be upbeat and cheerful. This is a real challenge. You have had to endure pain beyond belief but you have to try to be cheerful and approachable. Very, very difficult. I think at some point you have to attain the confidence in yourself to know that you will be alright with or without her.

Church is very good. God hates divorce. He leaves no doubt about that. Pray to God to give you the strength and the wisdom to successfuly fight for your marriage. And the best way to fight is to give it over to Him to change her heart rather than you trying to change it. He, more than anything else will help you succeed.

Nice reply legato...

I am at the end of my ...
I had a nice big cry with the Lord yesterday...
I have handed it to him... now I need to focus on myself, my emotional state and my shortcomings as a person, father and now most of all... a Husband!

I am really needing a Man of God to helm me get through this... I have a pastor that is a few hours away that I know and trust... but she says that he will just see my side of things... so she doesn't want me to talk to him... I might have to do it anyway... a counselor once a week isn't cutting it...

Don't get me wrong... this site helps too...

We will see!