You know, I thought the military had a no tolerance policy when it came to domestic violence (or the potential for such), getting arrested, disorderly intoxication and/or disorderly conduct. I can tell you what most likely happened. The police showed up and asked both your H and the OW for their ID and they ran both of them in the computer for warrants. When it came back that OW had warrant(s) for her arrest, your H (being drunk and full of testosterone) started showing his a$$ trying to defend his OW. He was warned that if he didn't leave and shut up he would be taken to jail, he didn't heed that warning, they smelled alcohol and observed other signs of impairment, he was making a scene and interfering with their ability to affectuate a lawful arrest, so they took him to jail. NONE, and I repeat NONE, of that is your fault!

It seems to me that his superior officer was trying to intimidate you into dropping charges (which you can't do anyway b/c on a disorderly intox charge the officers are the witnesses and complainants, not you) by holding his pay over your head. In the future, if any veiled threats of this nature are made to you by the Navy, I'd ask that they be put in writing. I'd say, "I'm getting the impression from you that you're implying my H's criminal conduct is somehow my fault and furthermore that you're withholding the financial support that me and my children are otherwise legally entitled to as a means of punishing me for my H's bad behavior." One other thing, if you are consulted re: plea negotiations, request probation with an alcohol evaluation and follow any recommended treatment plan along with random breath tests by his probation officer. Good luck! -SNS

dannielle..

you OK

Danielle
I was wondering the same thing. Are you ok?

Tell me there's nothing to worry about...you OK?

Dani,

How r u doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Wow...thank you all for caring and replying!

The past few days have been emotionally trying, and in the end I broke (I guess you could say).

WH was supposed to check into the temporary unit on Wednesday when he got out of jail. The ship was out to sea until Thursday night. I didn't hear from anyone during that time. I called the family ombudsman while they were gone and explained to her that I am feeling like the command is not taking this seriously. She told me that she talked to the Command Master Chief about everything, and he told her that I could call him anytime and told her to give me his number. The ship pulled in late Thursday night. Friday morning I got a call from an officer on board the ship asking WHERE was my WH. I told him that I had no idea, but I did have a number where he could be reached. He informed me that WH did not check into the temporary unit and did not come back to the ship. He was still UA status. The officer called the place that WH is staying and left a message on the answering machine for WH to get his butt on the ship.
Then I got a call from WH at about 1pm saying 'are you happy' I asked him why he was calling me, and I said I was happy that he had finally decided to return to his duty on the ship. He said that when he got back to the ship he heard that I was trying to make his Chief look bad and she asked him to call me and 'sort things out'. I told him that I had nothing to 'sort out' with him but he had a lot to 'sort out' in his own head. He asked me if I knew what was going to happen to him at Mast and I told him that I had no idea. He then asked if I would please, under any circumstances drop the charges against the OW for disturbing the peace. I told him that he had a lot of nerve to even ask me that, and told him that she in fact DID disturb the peace and continues to do so. He said 'Danielle, believe me, she learned her lesson. She spent 24 hours in jail, and cried the whole time, she won't ever come near you again, I promise. If she is found guilty she can spend 30 days in jail and that would kill her' He said that I have only seen her bad side, but she is really a good person. Just like she has only seen my bad side. He basically was trying to convince me not to show up in court, and he would promise me that she would never bother me or the kids. I told him that she has put my children at risk and I can not stand by and watch that happen. Then the conversation turned into my WH saying that if he gets dishonorable discharge, or drop in rank, he will kill himself. How he is depressed, and wants to shoot himself....if the ship lets him off he is going to die, etc.
So when we hung up I called the ship back and let them know about this conversation, and told them that I was concerned because he seems really irrational.
Less then 5 minutes later I get another call from WH saying 'you can stop calling the ship and telling them everything I tell you, because they don't want to hear it' then he hung up.
Then I got a call from his division officer asking me to clarify what he said and his emotional state. I did. In the back ground I heard his Chief say 'is that his crazy wife calling with some suicide threat warning again?' GRRR I don't like her!
Anyhow, his division officer ending up taking WH to the hospital for an eval. They released him back to the ship.
He called me when he got back to the ship to ask if I knew where he was. I said that I did, and I was surprised that he was back on the ship. He said 'I know how to talk. I still feel like doing that, but I know what to say. If I am every in a custody battle, I don't need that used against me, so I know how to play the game'. He was crying when he was telling me that. Then more fog babble about how he has been unhappy from the moment he met me until he met her, and now how he is so happy with her, he just wishes I would accept that....blah.
He said that I am down playing the reason he actually came on Tuesday night. He said he just wanted to kiss the kids. He misses them so bad, and thinks about them all the time, but he feels like I am keeping them from him.

Sometimes I wish I could record what he says and play it back for him, because it is so out of wack. If I had a house phone I would, but we only have the cell phones.
He asked me to e-mail him pictures of the kids....and told me that I need to remember the good times we had instead of dwelling on the fact that he found love with OW.
He had to stay on the ship last night, but gets weekend liberty. (Not sure why).
I believe Monday is his Mast when he finds out the punishment for this.....I have a good idea that the command is going to down play the entire thing.
I am so confused right now, I really am. WH kept calling me from the ship yesterday, and then an official would call, and then WH would call back. The last time WH and I talked he told me that we were together for over 6 years, had 3 children together, spent a lot of good times, etc. He would say 'remember when we went to Chicago with S4 and walked out on the pier and watched the fishermen?' I acknowledged. He said that we need to remember those times, and cherish them, and be friends for our kids. Huge 2x4 (just make it a 20x40 to save time). I had tears in my eyes, and he could tell. He said Danielle, it isn't worth crying, your stronger then that. You are too strong for this. He told me that he says so many things out of anger, but he doesn't mean them. He cares about me, and will always have a place for me in his heart, it just isn't the same place that I used to have. Then he would cry and say he missed the kids. He would bring up the OWs court date on Feb 16th and ask what I want from that. I told him that I want her to leave me alone. He kept saying that this can be so much easier if I just accept the fact the he is in love with her, and move on. (Listen, I know this is awful crazy thinking) but I feel like I am almost at the point where I am okay with that. He has made it clear that he isn't coming back, so why not try to make the best of it? I don't know. I was almost at peace with the fact that he wasn't coming home, he has moved on, and I need to as well. Then he talks the 'memories' talk and I think that he is being such a jerk for everything he has done to expect me to be friends and co-parent without anger.
I feel like a failure right now...I let him break me down. I feel like I might have said something that made him think about 'us', but he is so stuck on 'them' that he won't ever see the 'us' again.
Maybe I should just discontinue posting, I don't seem to be getting anywhere with this. One step forward, 20 backwards....
I do want to say that I really, really, really, appreciate all MB has done for me..
Danielle

Danielle!!!!!!!

Don't say that....you can't stop posting here!! I don't really think it's necessarily about accomplishing anything. I know that for me this place is my sanctuary. Somewhere I can get advice from people who have been there...or at least been CLOSE to where I've been, ya know? That's hard to find in the real world.

I don't know what I would have done without the advice and support on here, they mean so much to me. I know that I can always come here and someone will talk me off of the ledge I've currently gotten myself on.

Please don't go Dani!!

-Caren

I think posting is a good way to clarify your thoughts.
You may be feeling down about the potential to save the marriage but you still need a sounding board to help measure your steps to your future.

Dani,

I just want to clarify, are you considering not going to court when OW's case is heard? Get your butt in there! This woman has harmed your family in so many ways. Dropping the case will only show her that she can intrude on your children's life in any way that she chooses and you'll lie down and take it. It's not about the affair. It's about her thinking that she can take her drunk self over to your house at night and tell you how to run your family. And when visitation comes up for your children, you can use her conviction to enforce the fact that she's not be be around them. Affair or no affair, you need to do anything you can to protect your children from this piece of excrement.

Start the Plan B again. I know you slipped by having that talk with your H, but you can start over. Think hard about how you feel after you talk to him. You can choose not to talk to him and open yourself up to more hurt. He wedges himself into little cracks and busts them wide open again. You don't need that. I can see the difference in your spirit before and after you talk to him. Don't let him blow any more toxic fog up your butt!

Look over your last post again. Add up how many more problems are weighing on your mind that you just wouldn't be thinking about if you hadn't talked to your H.

Let Plan B work.

You have a lot of support here. I'm one of your biggest fans. You have shown courage and grace under some terrible circumstances. You're a very admirable person and we all want to help you disengage yourself from the chaos and do what's best for you and your children.

Dobie

I agree Dobie....Dani definitely has grace under pressure. I, for one, am proud of her.

-Caren

I agree that going back to Plan B would be best. If I understand it correctly, Plan B is designed not only to allow a WS to deal with the lifestyle that they have undertaken, but also to protect the BS from the constant upheaval this creates. One aspect of that is also to prepare for life beyond the marriage, should the relationship become unsalvagable. Please feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding it.

It's clear that your continued involvement with your WH is energizing his relationship with OW. You are allowing them to have a common foe, which they can stand united against. The relationship with the OW cannot die it's natural death, when it continues to receive this kind of fuel.

The damage that you are taking on emotionally in these interactions is another consideration. You don't need this. Your situation is difficult enough without allowing him to undermine your self-esteem and your self-confidence with his hurtful words and actions.

At this time, you are a single parent. You can no longer count on your children's father to assume a parenting role for them. He can't even manage to take care of himself right now. When you consider his history of bad choices, alcohol abuse, and melodramatic suicide threats, of what benefit is he to you and your children?

Perhaps your next Plan B would be more effective if you took an attitude of "moving on". Trying to put some distance literally by re-starting YOUR life. I had posted to you before about taking your babies and going back to your home state. Is that at all feasable?

I think you could probably testify against the OW by affidavit. You could check with the district attorney's office and ask. I agree with the others that it is imperative to keep her away from your children. It will be easier to do that if you do not capitulate to your WH's wishes in dropping the charges.

In fact, I wouldn't allow him unsupervised visitation until he had undergone treatment for his alcohol abuse, and until a legal NO CONTACT agreement had been reached in regards to the OW's exposure to your children.

Maybe you should consider making your next Plan B all about you and your children....what's best for you without regard to him. I don't think you owe him any consideration at this time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He kept saying that this can be so much easier if I just accept the fact the he is in love with her, and move on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't going to post, Dani, but this line got my goat.

What, on earth, does he expect you to do? You DO accept the situation -- that's why you are in Plan B. You ARE moving on, under extremely trying circumstances. You are looking for a car, making financial arrangements, and living life on your own. His calling you up to chew over old times is pulling you back.

You are in Plan B, in any case, Dani. He shouldn't know, or be able to make pronouncements, about what you are doing. He shouldn't know. You aren't telling him.

LadyJane is right on. Your presence is fueling the affair. Withdraw into Plan B, as best you can under your trying circumstances. They desperately need you in this triangle -- but it does absolutely nothing for you.

Sorry you have to go thruogh this. Have you contacted the chaplin on your post/base. He can help. as a go between with the unit so they don't give you any greif. The chaplins have a strong say in matters when families are involved and can easely get to the commanders ear. Tell the chaplin what your desired outcome is he can help. The first time I had trouble with my wife I got a hold of the OM's commander and she didn't think it was such a good thing for him to do and took a stripe from him. I didn't care what they did to him and let the commander know it. If you don't want him in as much trouble make sure you let the chaplin know. Good luck I'll be praying for you and the kids.

Dani,

Just a thought about the way your WH has twisted his CO into thinking you are the one who is a whack job.

He uses the suicide threat to manipulate you. The best thing you could say to him the next time he tries it would be, "well, it'll be sad to see you end your life that way, but that is your choice." Then hang up the phone.

And don't answer when he calls back.

If he were truly suicidal he could not hide this during the evaluation. Truly depressed people can't "fake" being happy. They would see through it.

Don't fall for his BS.

Go dark again. And by all means, show up at the hearing for OW and make her face her consequences. You will need her conviction to keep your children away from her should you wind up divorced.

~ Snow

Dani,

Good to hear from you but sorry the boat is still on choppy waters. As for the voice in the background, you don't know who it is. WS' could have been playing up someone to pretend he is the commander....more drama, you know?

Of course you should document this all down. Take it to the chaplain..... I am sure he has seen fog babble to recognize it.

Your WS is a drama king and in time it w/b seen. If the commander was the one in the background, the Navy ought to decide if he is fit for command because it is his job to give a fair ear to both sides. Even if he wants to take the sailor's side.

When making your next report, also let them know that there was a person in the background that was 'pretending to be the chief (give the right title) but that you were surprised that someone of his command would be so callous to call you ___________'.

See on a personal level, I could see anyone trying to downplay the matter.... but on a professional level, it is his job to keep his boy in check and right now that's not happening. Anyone hearing that convo with 1/2 a brain could hear the babble. Of course they don't have all the info (both sides and reality checks, etc.) but it still is enough to see he is losing it. Now that he has lost it while at work, it is just a matter of time before he loses it in other places of work and bingo....you case is made. Of course your name c/b tainted before it is redeemed. Prepare for that to happen.

Report what you need and stick to the facts. Truth will come out and prevail in time. I called the police when I was led to believe the WS was making a suicide threat call to me. The police said I did the right thing and the OW was furious (because I ruined one of their motel6 rendezvous. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Make sure you have the strength to see the OW in court. Here's where your actions are where you can replay back to him in real time his own words.

ex:

WS: OW is really a nice person. You just saw her when she was having a bad day.

BS: Then you shouldn't have brought her over the family's home on a bad day or anyday for that matter.

WS: You are too mean to her.

BS: I would do tbe same to any person who is 'having a bad day on my doorstep at 10:45pm, wouldn't you?'

WS: Well.....( at this point it doesn't matter what he says..... he can't redeem himself).

W/b nice if this happened in front of a judge but most likely will not. That is why it is important you pick and choose your battles. Journal all events with date and times. Be factual. You can keep the emotional journal separate.

Just stick to the facts Dani. You are doing good.
Keep your boundaries in front of you. Realize that your protection and that of your family depends on it. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. We are pulling for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All the best,
L.

If he were truly suicidal he could not hide this during the evaluation. Truly depressed people can't "fake" being happy. They would see through it.

Its different for different people. I did just this some 13 years ago. I had been having some issues in college and was used to the depression cycle that had existed in my life since my youth. I had even been suicidal before but always seem to pull myself out before I hit rock bottom.

At this particular time, I had just lost a baby in my 7th month of pregnancy and my boyfriend decided to "dump" me on the ride home from being in the hospital after this incident. I stayed on campus and insisted on being taken back there instead of to my parents. I jumped back into classes and work to make it look normal but inside, I was barely hanging on. Some nights after, while speaking to a male cousin long distance, it just popped into my head to end it all. Before the conversation ended, I thanked him for hearing me out and wished the family well. I then went and took half a bottle of sleeping pills.

My cousin, noticing the change of my tone in the conversation plus the fcat that he had been around me in my youth during the cycles, immediatelty called our grandmother who lived across town from me. They tried to call my parents but didn't have any luck contacting them. Two of my aunts who were at my grandmothers house quickly jumped in the car and drove across town to reach me. By the time they got there, I was still conscious but barely. They dumped me in the car and drove to the nearest hospital where my stomack was pumped and the set aside for an evaluation.

By that time I realized that whatever I felt, I didn't want to be in anyones hospital. So I cleared my mind, sought out my most sincerest voice and when the doctor came into ask the questions, I suddenly became just an overworked college student who made a rash decision in trying to get some rest. Told them that I though I had taken just 2-3 sleeping pills but thought the other pills were my allegy and pain pills. The doctor warned me against taking various pills together and if I just had to, remember to take the sleeping pills last so that I wouldn't make the same mistake again. Then I was released and it wasn't coded as a suicide attempt because no one could repeat any info that I said that stated it was.

So while I wasn't faking being "happy", I did fake not being suicidal to get out of the hopital.

Luckily, I no longer live in that type of world.

IMHO, the WS thinks he is smarter than the average bear and will try to pull his WS stunts on others. Evaulators in the business generally can recognize when someone is trying to play a game with them vs someone who had 1 bad episode.

WS sounds smug and arrogant, babbling idiot then crying fool. With all that going on in the fog, don't you think a competent analyst would see it?

L.

I am not ignoring you all, I will post responces later today as I do have a lot to say.
I am 'digesting' all of this. I am so hurt and confused right now.
On one hand I see that I need to go dark...and pretend like WH and I did not have that discussion.
Then on the other hand, when he brings up the 'memories' it 'feels so good' to hear. I need to get my brain to take over again. I said to him on the phone that I enjoyed hunting with him, and he got real quiet, and said 'you did?' real soft.
I want to bust in his head and say YES I DID, NOW GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND LET'S GO!!!
Then he pops in with 'I love OW so much that if she goes to jail I will go UA'

I almost feel like there is no hope for our marriage, no matter what I do, or don't do. If that is the case, why plan B? Why not just continue to talk to him on an adult-co-parent level? Answer: because he doesn't deserve it! BUT I feel like I DO!
Okay, now I am tossing my thoughts around on paper ....
More later...
Danielle

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

One thing I just remembered that my WH said when we talked...
I said something about long term commitment(I can't remember what) and WH said
"well didn't you already say I can only be with one women for a few years before I 'move on'?"
I said "yep, did you tell OW that?"
He said LAUGHING "I was kidding" and
I responded "No, you were serious" He just kept laughing quietly. [Eek!]
He went on to explain that he feels like his 'job in life' is to help people. He came into my life and made me a better person. He says this because he allowed me to be a SAHM, and go to school, while he worked. He said he left because he felt that he could not help me any further, or give me what I needed. SO, now he found someone else who needs his help, and he will help her be a better person, and then move on? [Roll Eyes]
I asked him 'What about bettering yourself?'
His responce 'I don't matter' [Confused]
He has a lot to learn about life...and I mean that.
He reminds me of things that I had to learn about life, and the ways that I have changed since D-day and prior to that. I think it upsets him that it took him leaving for me to see what I needed to do for my life. It upsets me too, but there is nothing I can do about it. It was his choice not to see that I could change, and come home.
Man, I feel like I could ramble all day!
Danielle

D

His job is to help people? Give me a break. Wish he wasn't so selfish. At least for your sake. Be strong! We need you here. Wish I was his commanding officer. Life wouldn't be so good and he would wish he was back in jail. Get some rest and eat.