Tane,

Good for you. This time don't let up. She has more law resources than you do so get a good one, and get the drug use documented if you can.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aussieswife:
<strong> tane

have you spoken to all your kids yet?

The two youngest will certainly need some reassurance and dont discount the oldest from that either.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't talked to the kids yet - my wife wants me to do it with her. I want to talk it over with her first, because I want to know what she wants to say first. I intend to tell them that their mom has decided that she doesn't love me anymore and has found another person that she thinks is a better person than I am and is breaking up our family to try to find out. I plan to tellthem that I think it is very wrong, and that I am sorry that I can't change her mind, but that I love her and will always be their dad and always love them.

Or something along that line - still thinking about it. Cheryl is gone today, so I have them all here now, but in respect for their mother, I do want to know what she plans to say first.


<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as custody battles go, I expect the best thing is for you to have actual evidence of your claims otherwise it comes down to she says he says.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for her using my Valium prescription for he friends, I have no true evidence - can't use that. But I can request a drug test for the pot.

One other question: although it feels (to me) that this is too far gone for hope, should I still draft a PBL and give it to her? Reason I'm asking: She sent me an email last night appologizing deeply for the hurt she has caused me and that she understands that I have every right to be angry, but that she still intends to go thru with divorcing me, and she wants to make it as easy for the children as possible. I think she wants me to sort of 'cover up' the real reason she's ending our marriage. I don't intend too do so, but is this a sign that I should dtill keep in mind there is still a possibility in the future?

Where I am right now, I would be so glad that she is out of my life. For almost five years now she's made my life a living hell, and the peace would be amazing. I'm not sure I even want her back....

David

<small>[ January 29, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

You know, I've truly never experienced such pain and anguish before. Just when it seems worst, things get even darker. Said at the risk of being called a wimp again. This gets harder to bear each day as each decision affecting my kids, wife, family, are made, and with such a feeling of finality. My prayer is that no one ever have to experience this - I know most of you here on these boards either have, are, or will, but it's still my prayer

God bless you all. Off to another shift at the old ER.

Pete,
First let me say I'm so sorry for what you are going through. If you would like to read my story, the link is in my signature, our stories are very similar.

Now, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you DO NOT MOVE!!! that includes moving the kids, the court will look at their place of residence for the past 5 years or so, and if it appears that they had a stable residence, and YOU removed them from that, you could very well end up the bad guy with no kids. Use the money for the apartment for the attorney, if she wants you gone, tell her to leave!!!!!

Once the tax money comes in, guard it well, but keep close track of what you spend it on.

Keep a daily log of everything she does, or doesn't do that is or isn't harmful to the kids, selling valium, and smoking pot are definately harmful, and if you can get some proof GET IT.

Also note in the log the things you are doing for the kids, the key you need to remember is everything needs to be "in the best interest" of the kids. YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG, your kids need you now more than ever. you will also want to start collecting evidence of your involvement in the kids lives, signed report cards, notes from school showing you were an active participant, you want to be able to keep her from saying you were not involved in their lives.

I know you might be thinking that WW wouldn't do that, but Brothewr let me tell you, WW's will do anything if they think it will make them look good, or happy, and pain to you is included in that list.

The email she sent is basically her way of making herself feel happy that what she is doing is OK, we all know better.

You can also use email to try to get her to self incriminate, maybe send her an email confronting her about the valium & pot, WW's in the FOG are not thinking clearly and she just might admit something.

Bottom line... Keep your wits about you, she is in the fog, you can see clearly, USE THAT TO SAVE YOUR KIDS.

I will be praying for you and if you need to talk just holler (I can be reached on msn messenger NICE1/CHUCK )

Hosea

Look...

What JL is trying to get you to do is focus right now. I had a period of time where everything was coming to a head and I needed to protect myself and the kids. I filed. I was very scared. Made a bunch of fuss on here about not wanting to do it, not wanting to scare her permanently away. But then my wife did something that clarified everything for me now (go back to my threads in December 02 and January 03). So, I filed for divorce, went to a full Plan B finally...and waited for whatever result to happen.

Well, I had an immediate result. I began to stop feeling so out of control. I was now in control. Throughout the next two years, I never lost that feeling. It was liberating.

The second result was that by filing, I now was on record. So, when it came down to a year and a half later...and she went foggy again and tried to file...we went to court for custody, and I got custody. Why? Because I was prepared. Because I had mounds and mounds of evidence (I will help you get what you need...yes Oregon will be tougher for you than Virginia, since we have adultery laws here...but you can still do it). But, because I had filed before, because I had shown her love and taken her back...because she walked out again, she had NO credibility with the judge. None. While, even though I had made some mistakes, the judge could see that I had been all about my marriage. That even though I had filed, I had taken her back. I was looking out for the kids. I had taken care of them while she was gone. So, when she files...she goes for the kill. The judge saw right through the whole thing.

The last thing I gained was respect from my wife. Why? Well, a foggy WW wants us to file, to divorce them. They need us to legitamize what they have done. So, while filing first, you do not proceed past the custody hearing. You do not push it forward. All the while, you go to Plan B, you give her the letter...and anytime she wants to talk or push you, you give her the letter again. What you end up showing her is that you have boundaries, you will protect your family, that her behavior is unacceptable...but you will not help her end the marriage. If she wants all of this, she bares all of the responsibility for its demise. And in the eyes of her children, that can be quite damning.

But in the end, it will be respect you get from her. Through her anger, she will begin to see a man. resolute in protecting his family. And reslute in his vows he made before God and before man. From what I hear most women, that is quite an attractive position to be in.

Something I noticed while all of this was going on. When the affair first happened and I was spinning out of control, women around me seemed to look on me with pity. "Poor Mortarman...it si so sad...look at him." But when I stood up, protected my family and still stood by my vows, something very interesting happened. All the women around me and us (and many of them married...sadly) began to change how they saw me. They began to respect what I was doing. And with that respect, I actually began to be hit on by many of them...some that were friends of my wife (like I said above, sadly many were married). Of course, I didnt take the bait. But all of a sudden, I was the talk of the gossip out there. Many of the women began to really see my wife as screwed up...and the magpies just kept talking.

Well, that doesnt go on too long without it reaching my wife. She then notices that almost all the women around us have a new found respect for Mortarman. Shoot, even her own mother was starting to take my "side" and told me she respected me for what I was doing with the kids (that was a HUGE jump for her). She began to hear that there were some that were interested in me, and that they knew I had filed for divorce.

Well, since I was in Plan B, I was filling none of her needs. She was hearing of women wanting what I had. she saw how resolute I was in protecting my family and my vows...and she began to have that respect for me too. And then one night, she up and came home and demanded I talk to her about us. That she wanted to come home.

You know, God has it right. Women want to be loved. Men want to be respected. for a woman to respect a man, he has to be respectable. It isnt just loving them like Christ loves us. That is a part of it. But it is also leading, being respected, being resolute.

So, after all of this, what I am trying to say here is that all of us want you to succeed at this. But this is a war. And there are many battles in a war. You must get to the point in all things where your wife will not want to battle you any longer. You must get to the point that your "strength" is so over powering that she doesnt even dare take you on. That whatever she tries, she will find a man that is completely ready and above board. That he will "die" for her and his family.

You can no longer wait on her. If she comes home, she will catch up with you. You take your family and lead now. Lead. leadership is not done with words. It is done with actions. Your marriage isnt over...so stop worrying about whether you will want her back or not. That isnt the battle right now. That battle is later. The battle right now is those children. We can help you prepare.

But you have to be ready.

In His arms.

Ok everyone - points taken. I'v wanted to move for years because we ay too danged much for our budget, but if it means stability for the kids, I'll stay here - she has already offered to move. I just wanted to get a cheaper place. I will have to cut bak on a lot of luxuries, stuff we have no use for, like, 400 cable channels (the kids watch 3, I watch 2),etc.

I want to fight fo r the kids, I do need hep because my wife is a very strong-willed person, used to getting her way (hence her nickname Princess) and she has a large support group of law students who'd love to see a good marriage fail if just for the legal experience.

I do need your help. I don't know enough to do it on my own, I just know I need to get to the lawyer right away, and work all the extra hours I can. As for evidence from school - that's no problem at all. I'm the only parent the teachers have seen all year. I'm the one in constant communication. I''m the one arguing with the school booard on how I'm going to pay the tuition now that my wife has refused her part.

I could also use many prayers. This is a difficult thing to do.

Thanks.
David

David...

You are not alone in your journey....there are so many similiarities to other's stories..Yet it is your story...your pain....understand we have walked a mile in your shoes.....I and others know EXACTLY how you feel right now. You are not abnormal in any way. Use us for support...for strength.....what ever you need. I know that I wish I found this place 3 years ago....when my XW was pressuring for a divorce....never telling me that there HAD been someone else....I found this place after DD....

We're here for you....I know I have been checking on you....e-mail if you wish...

coombse@excite.com....

Hi all - my wife and I had as close a 'talk' as we could have this morning. I realized how wrapped up in fog she really, truly is.

Everynight I have left a note on her pillow, telling her goodnight, and that I hoped all her studies went well the next day - that sort of things. Short nots, etc. She asked me if I was trying to change her mind. I told her no, I was just letting her know I care very much about her and wanted her to know that everynight before she went to sleep.

Yesterday I sent her an email lettng her know just how much pain she was causing me - both because of her betryal of me and of what she was doing to the kids. I did it just to plant the seeds that she was hurting us all.

She informed me that I was moving out, she was keeping the kids and staying here - I didn't argue that, instead, I told her I did not want her bringing OM into the kid's lives. She said, I'm not going to do that. Then she said, I'm not sleeping with him - I know you think that, but its not true. I told her it would end up that way if she continued, she said yes, but not as long as we're married, which is why she wants the divorce.

That obviously means that she does intend to involve this OM with the kids.

She complained that I am still being dishonest with her by not telling her what I plan on doing, and that she thinks I'm going to make this as hard as possible. I tried to tell her that I feel very discounted whenever I try to make a point, she said "There you go, making excuses, just like that MC called you on in that last session." In that seeion I tried the "I feel" when "X" happens thing sevreal times, he just asked her if she was tired of my excuses.

Then she said, yes she has found someone else who does not treat her as I do (I presume meaning the old LBs I used to use). She said "I know, I know, it won't last, you've told me that enough times"

We started to talk about the divorce, I said if we do get a divorce, at the least I wanted joint custody of the kids. She said she hadn't studied enough law to know what that meant.

I tried to bring up her issue with being unwilling to discuss options about our marriage, she said that the reason she wants out is because she feels trapped, and wants to be happy. I told her we could work on that in our marriage, that it isn't a trap (mistake there - I wasn't really listening - BIG LB) Immediately she flew into a rage, started into the same old stuff she always accuses me of (I don't even remember all of what she claims - it's happened so often that I just ignore it - probably another LB, but I know I'm not the man she thinks i am, wasn't interested) Instead I appologized for not hearing what she was saying in the conversation, but by then it was too late, she stormed out of the house on the phone with someone.

However she did bring up one statement in the middle of the conversation - I think when I was explainiung joint custody, and she said, well, why don't we get a separation then...

So I think I'm going to draft a PBL (I wrote one last night but I don't like it) and post it tomorrow sometime for review and help. And I am seeing my lawyer first thing tomorrow, although I think I can convince her to leave kids here anyway and move out to her own place to try things out. I need to get the D papers ready anyway, although I don't plan on signing them.

One thing that I need to state very clearly - athough I've been a model husband and father lately during what I can at least call my attempt at a Plan A, my love bank for her if virtually gone. Nearly every feeling I ever had for her is gone, I am pretty much at the stage where I don't care what she does. Pretty bad for starting a plan B, eh?

Anyway, although I really do NOT want to stay in this house - I am not interested in the cost - rent, water, sewer, garbage, etc., if that's what you all suggest I do to keep stability for the kids, I guess I'll try. I cfould really use a much cheaper place with utilities paid - would that still look bad to any judge in any custody hearing? Seems to me that it would be more responsible to try to lower the budget.

I can tell you this - telling a WS in the fog that you are working hard at becoming the person they want, or that you are changing doesn't fly. Better to just do it without making any defense.

Still dazed and confused, guess this next week is the test.....she is too busy to get to a lawyer - her school and love life take up too much time.

I did ask that she return my Valium, I need it for my stress {"That's right, it's always about YOU, what about MY happiness?" was her reply - heh heh. I don't care if she's stressed or not. Let her be - see the Dr yourself, woman, get your own drugs to give away.

I asked her to send me an email explaining what it was about the OM that makes her life so different, but she's too smart for that - she told me she was worried that I'd use it in some way against her. Dangit, she saw right thru me...

Oh David,
I have a few days off the computer and I come back to see so much has happened with you!!
I Just wanted to say that my thoughts are with you and I will be checking in.

I completely understand about not wanting to stay in the house, besides all the bills, there are the memories - good and bad. My IC said that it may be better for the both the kids and me to get a new place if it comes to that. Think of it as a new start for everyone. Helps to put things into perspective, ya know?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by suzychapstick:
<strong> Oh David,
I have a few days off the computer and I come back to see so much has happened with you!!
I Just wanted to say that my thoughts are with you and I will be checking in.

I completely understand about not wanting to stay in the house, besides all the bills, there are the memories - good and bad. My IC said that it may be better for the both the kids and me to get a new place if it comes to that. Think of it as a new start for everyone. Helps to put things into perspective, ya know? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Suzy - tell me about the bills! My wife hasn't paid a thing except the cable bill and car insurance in months! I just had the gas guy come to the door with a huge bill - either that or shut off the gas. I had to pay - there goes more of my savings. I can't figure out what she's been doing with out money! Oh well. Opened a new account under my name.

Told her over IM today that I wasn't going back to that MC - that we could easily tell the kids the truth on our own. She is, of course, very angry about that - I expected it, but I have already told the kids her plans. They want to stay with me and let her come back. DD grabbed her purse and wanted to go to the store immediately and buy mom some flowers so that she would start loving her family again. I had already advised DD that mom loves her very very much - I wish my wife could have beeen there for that. I wish something would break thru that fog.

She accused me of telling the truth to the kids 'slanted in my favor' - DUH! Like I'm gonna 'slant it in her favor'! She's the one doing the wrong, not me, no matter how empty her Love Bank may be.

pete, I don't have any advice, but I'm so sorry about how this is going. Just wanted to leave my good thoughts for you, and maybe a little strength.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aislinn:
<strong> pete, I don't have any advice, but I'm so sorry about how this is going. Just wanted to leave my good thoughts for you, and maybe a little strength. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just haveing the support of this board - regardless of outcome, has kept me sane - seriously. I thought about committing suicide when I found out about the affair, but turned here instead. Your strength helps me keep going.

God bless

David

This is all very new to you. I imagine the pain is very deep and has not abated much.

I'm not going to lie and say the pain goes away completely, but it loses its edge, and my Lord, what a blessing *that* is. Just wait until you get to the point where you realize you don't NEED your marriage...even though you still want it. That was the turning point for me. Took awhile for me to get there, but then again, I did not find MB until 1.5 yrs after the affair.

I'm inviting you to Idiotville. There's a desperate poster there now, knowalibis. Think you could help talk him out of of the darkness? If you can't right now, I would understand. But sometimes helping others is the best way to see the light ourselves.

**editing in as dinner is cooking***

Thanks, David. You made a really good post in there and I hope that KA can relate to you. I feel so sad when anyone feels so deep in the hole. I've been there too and I'm better which is why I would hate to see someone in such a dark and desperate place seek such a drastic measure.

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: aislinn ]</small>