So..those images, in my head..during sex..and the rest of the day too..but particularly during sex. It has to stop.

I had an idea. It's either a really good idea..or a future therapy session, feel free to chime in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

I was inspired by a dream that I had some months ago, in which I had to watch a porn video of H and OW having sex..but the kicker was that this..was a good dream. H and I were using it as foreplay.

*ahem* So anyway.

My circuits have apparently been processing this for some time, and it occurred to me that being very familiar and very callous takes the shock out of things for pretty much anyone.

When I was in high school I worked at the local nursing home as a CNA [they paid better than dairy queen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ] and recalled how absolutely shocked I was by the sight of naked adults..by having to place a urinal on a man [I didn't want to look like a weeny in front of my instructor..but egad my legs felt like jello and my cheeks were RED..hey I was only 14..how familiar would you expect me to be with grown up man parts?] and then later..as years passed I could perform a post mortem while trying to decide what I wanted for lunch. It isn't the input..it's the processing of it that makes a difference.

So here's what I did. When those images hit..I went on the offensive rather than shut down or try a defensive maneuver such as imagining a big stop sign.

I put myself in the role. Completely..not just for the visuals..but the whole shebang.

And it worked..and it continued to work. I find myself far less sensitive to the subject on the whole..I do not have the internal reaction that I once did, and the images come much less frequently and have very little ability to rattle me.

It isn't completely gone..but it's better. It's workable. It's a speedbump rather than a mountain..I have to slow down and deal with it, but it no longer requires oxygen and a rescue team.

So..is there a part of my brain that wants to point a finger while shouting unclean ? Yes.

Know what though? The way I see it..if it involves sex and my husband..the person who doesn't belong there is OW..and I can do anything I want with that imagery..not like it's copyrighted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's counter intuitive..I want to run away..I charge it instead. I don't know why it is so effective, but it seems to help.

A lot of questions and pleas on the board lately for just this problem. Maybe it will help you..maybe Noodle is not playing with a full deck. Choose your own adventure.

Noodle

Good post, Noodle. Maybe I will print this out for my H. He has yet been able to find it within him to get past the mental pics and have SF with me again.

Love the imagery btw of a 14 year old seeing men's privates (especially OLD men <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). My DD is 12 and she can't even stand to SEE the word SEX. LOL

Hi Noodle,

I'd don't believe we've spoken before, but your topic caught my eye. Your "being familiar and very callous takes the shock out of things", while possibly true, seems counter-productive in the sexual arena. (Didn't know exactly how to phrase that.) But callous is not necessary something (I've) previously associated with sex - (Shrug). Perhaps I'm not fully "getting" your meaning.

Like many other BS, I'm haunted by "the images". While distressing, they are for the most part manageable. But, what I've found much less "manageable" is the loss of "speciality" (for lack of a better term) attendant to our sexual relationship. So much has been shared with OP(s), that nothing "special" remains just for us (or more specifically for me). Even more disturbing are the "new tricks", that while interesting and not all together unenjoyable, were practiced and performed for others first. How does one get over yet another feeling of having been cheated?

Any clarification on your original idea(s) appreciated as well as any psychoanalysis re. the loss of "speciality" greatly appreciated.

FF,

Let me know what he thinks.

Ron,

Sorry, no it will not restore the specialness..the sense of specialness or resolve the feeling of having been cheated.

I am talking about commandeering the images and scenarios rather than trying to repress them.

Noodle

Oh yes, I know all about the dreams (nightmares). The gutwrenching, just got hit by a fast moving train, wake up sobbing in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep dreams.

And oh yes, I embraced them. So much so that she became my constant companion, my friend, my biggest regret... to having unknowingly hurt her.

Although I have never seen or spoken to her, to this day.

Although his children hate this person (their former step-mother), she became a kindred spirit of mine, if only in my own psyche.

My nemesis, my shame, my mirror.

Is that what you meant Noodle...only backwards? LOL

Now who has the lesser deck?

Noodle, are you saying in short that you fantasize about thier encounters during SF???

SISF,

Pretty close.

I don't summon the images but when they do hit I choose to put my focus on the parts that I find erotic.

And I replace her with me..I change the perception..so rather than being on the outside looking in..I'm on the inside experiencing.

I'm not thinking about the betrayal, the shame, the disease, the things that make it an adultery..

I focus on the act itself..first time sex..reckless lust..things like that.

Replace and reward has a better likelyhood for success than grit your teeth and hope it goes away while singlehandedly keeping lubrication companies afloat and kindly refrain from throwing up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Maybe they didn't mean for me to take it so literally [whoever they are] but it works.

It's not great, but an improvement. Hopefully a helpfull step toward someplace better.

Noodle

Noodle you have the most amazing way with words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WOW! Talk about owning the situation! I'm impressed! I also applaud your bravery for such a post...LOL I only asked because my W does something similar. Only she doesn't replace OW with herself. She just uses the visual and even verbalizes it sometimes (I wisely keep my mouth shut). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Once she told me she wished OW was prettier so that the fantasy would be better.
I always figured this to be unique and really have no idea how to address it. I guess if it works for her there is no problem...

SISF,

I really debated posting it. It really helps though. Ya know?

So I did imagine that people would read..and then sit there stunned..wads of food balanced on their tongues unchewed..waiting for me to say.."It's OK..just kidding!"

I don't think H has put two and two together yet. I'm not sure what he would think about it..could go either way.

So, I'm relieved to know I am not absolutely the ONLY person to come up with this and find it workable.

Does your W post here?

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> So I did imagine that people would read..and then sit there stunned..wads of food balanced on their tongues unchewed..waiting for me to say.."It's OK..just kidding!"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LMAO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes my wife does post on rare occasion. She posts under the handle SleeplessInSF2. I will tell her of your post. Maybe your two could exchange ideas...lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay...I too have these little 'movies', but mine aren't a full fledged movie, I sorta flash on things...and I don't like it. I can pull myself out of it pretty quick, but it's still a pain. Now I'm sure that when my husband and I are in recovery...3 million years from now, that they'll eventually go away, but they suck when I do get them. I in no way could EVER find my husband doing anything sexual with another woman erotic, it almost makes me physically ill if I let it go on, I can usually stop 'em as soon as they start.

And as for 'tricks' that WH picked up/practicing on others....I haven't noticed any....he had quite the repertoire to begin with, so she's getting the old news not me..LOL!!! I've picked up a few new tricks myself....but not from being with anyone else, they are things that I never was interested in doing before....now I'm pulling out all the stops.....Let's just say he's gonna be hurtin' for certain when I do go dark cuz I don't know too many women he'd be able to talk into this stuff. He couldn't get SF any better from a porn star <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Okay, now I'm embarrassed LMAO

-Caren

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Caren,

I can not describe to you how badly seeing images of H and OW in my head affects me.

I have been told more than once in my life that I "think like a man" [whatever that means <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ] and I have heard that men are often more disturbed by the physical aspect of things..so maybe there is a little something to that..

When I do this..I do not imagine him with someone else ..it's more like..

Noodle<--- will be playing the role of "OW" in tonights show and go from there.

It has helped very much. I don't hold back at all anymore..and the suppression of the images was robbing me of enjoying the experience.

I wouldn't say it's perfect..or at least not yet..but it is sooooo much better than it was.

Noodle

Caren,
I hear you, it wouldn't be for me either. But hey, if it works for others I find it hard to argue. It takes quite the person to be able to turn something like that and "own" the situation. And YES, you SHOULD be embarressed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Noodle, I told my W about your post, maybe she'll check in later if she gets a chance. She's a tax preparer and pretty busy these days but maybe. She also felt a little relief she wasn't the only one. She also added that lately she exchanged OW for another girl (i had no idea) we know or herself because real OW doesn't fit her tastes.

LOL Seattle...how kinky...LMAO

Noodle, I wasn't trying to act like it was strange that you do this, if it works, hell I'm all for it. I think the images probably 'threaten' my SF with WH, but I can put them out of my head pretty quick. It's sorta hard for me to deal with, because a long time ago I read "Men are from Mars/Women are from Venus" and when it talked about SF and how men want it more, etc. he had a suggestion that the woman think....this is my husband, he's all mine and nobody else's to help get you in the mood...and I did it, and it did help, I thought "This man is all mine, no one else can touch him like this" etc, well let me tell you what a big kick in the teeth this is for me to have him cheating on me...so now I can't do that and it's a colossial head trip for me, and I think I'll sue John Gray. (LOL not really...but it sucks)

-Caren

Rats, I thought this was a Gary Larson thread!

Noodle. you're not alone in being bothered by the physical aspects of the A. I have known for a long time that the sexual betrayal bothers me much more than the emotional betrayal. The reason is because the emotional part would have blown apart because it was based on such a bunch of crap. I knew the OW wouldn't be able to be so admiring forever. Also, I knew that eventually H would have been so smothered by her because she was always in touch with him. I am much more independent than she would ever have been. More interesting too.

I am bothered by the images and also by what Ron talked about, no longer feeling special. Except for one thing, everything we did together, they did together. Before the A I really ejoyed SF with H and thought we he did also. I can still enjoy SF, but at times I just think, "Wow, he did this with her. He got excited with her. He had an O with her." Recently I tried something probably similar to what you did. Like you said, kind of like watching a porno movie. Unfortunately, still no specialness.

One more thing that might fit for you. About a month ago I read something in "The Five Love Languages" book that was a lightbulb moment for me. The author said that for those of us who have physical touch as their top EN the sexual betrayal shatters our love banks. My SIL is a FBS and SF is not a top EN, and so the sexual betrayal isn't what bothered her the most about her H's A. This is all so much fun, isn't it? CV

CV,

Wow..I think you hit the nail on the head.

Yes, I agree and have been very emphatic in saying that it DOES NOT restore the sense of specialness.

Just keeps me in the erotic moment rather than losing all desire in an instant..followed by nausea..follwed by bitterness and hopelessness.

Your words could have come from my own lips..er..fingers. We must have crossed thoughts.

I'm gonna go get that book tomorrow.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I put myself in the role. Completely..not just for the visuals..but the whole shebang. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm, becoming the OW. But just in fantasy. I wonder if this can work for me, seeing as how the OW was also my best friend at the time? Perhaps I know her too imtimately for it not to be, well, just plain weird?

Also, my H tells me that the SF wasn't so great with her. He tried to make it great, all 4 times, but he said it just wasn't. So, do I want to put myself into not-so-great-sex roles? Do any of these thoughts ever pop in your head, or do you just over-ride them all and get on with the program? So to speak?

I was just driving down the road today, imagining them . . . doing stuff, thinking about how I have to find a way to get these things out of my brain. Because sometimes still, over a year post D-day, it all comes crashing down on me right in the middle of, ahem, SF. And here I came home to your thread!

All feedback welcome. Thanks for the thread, noodle. You sure got MY noodle processing.

Spidey

It's awful...thinking about the physical part, I don't really dwell on it, but I get a sense of dread, even now typing it gives me the same feeling I get when I flash on it.

I don't know that before the A I would have listed SF as one of my top 3, it has since our problems started been almost number one, actually I would have to say it's running a close 2nd to affection...being as it's the only affection I can seem to get from him.

This is all so profoundly sad, I don't even know what to do with these feelings. As I said, I can push them away when I get them, but I do get them alot....for some reason in the middle of SF, I'll think 'Does he do this with her?'. I wonder if she's any good, I'm sure that he would tell me no, but I don't think that's necessarily the truth. He also tells me the reason we're split up is not because of her....apparently we're split up because of ME and she's just a bonus. I hope with everything I have that isn't really the case, and that he's just trying to ease his conscience as he knows full well I do not deserve any of this, I have been a pretty dedicated wife, friend and lover.

-Caren

**Really pathetic side note: Last night he was petting the bird and baby talking to it, and I thought 'Man, too bad I'm not the bird'.