</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He also tells me the reason we're split up is not because of her....apparently we're split up because of ME and she's just a bonus. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren, you do know that all WS's say this, don't you? During our separation, that was the first 1)discussion AND 2)disagreement we had. FWH said it was about ME, and I said it was about OW.

That is probably THE most consistent line I have heard on these boards from WS's, and in 2 more days, I will have been here for 1 year.

We should brain-storm some reverse-babble for you to give your WS when he says that to you.

AND, please consider the damage that could be being done to YOU having SF with him while he is still wayward. Not just STD's, but emotionally. One thing we don't do here at MB enough, is forward-think to the Recovery stage. If too much hurt and resentment builds up, it makes recovery soooo much harder. Please try and think of the future when making these decisions.

Spidey

I am also a year past dday and well into recovery now and still have the movies that play over and over in my head.

I think the SF has been harder for me than I thought it was going to be.

I wish I could bump my head somedays and not even remember any of it. I hate having SF and thinking of them having it. I just wish there was a way to turn off my mind and not think about it. I have tried so many times. Now I just lay there and let it play out and then when it is over I try to concentrate on us. I guess there isn't much else to do in this situation.

HINY

Desensitization is a well-known and valid technique, from what I gather. Is definately one I use a lot.

That is part of why I was(and am) so insistant about getting the gory details. If I focus on what really happened,over and over again, it robs a lot of my urge to play what if?

Familiarity breeding contempt and all that.

Glad you found something that helps.

-OAK

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: OnceAKnight ]</small>

doubledouble

postpost

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: OnceAKnight ]</small>

Noodle, just to let you know that overall the book is not an A book. I did get a lot out of it. And that one part alone really helped me to understand myself better, especially because so many times I've heard that women don't have as much trouble with the sexual betrayal. This other thing the book said hit me also. If you know my story H had the A while my dad was dying and after he died. That is equal to the sexual betrayal in what I need to heal from. The author says that if physical touch is a top EN for us that when we are going through crisis we need to be comforted in that way. When our S withholds physical touch it is very hard to get over that.

Onceaknight, it's nice to hear someone else has needed to know all the gory details. I have asked my H everything, and really I could ask more. He can't understand it, but what you said fits for me also. CV

CV,

Maybe I'll just check it out from the library then.

I had to know the details too..and to be honest..I could ask a thousand more questions every day..and a thousand new ones would fill their place.

You know what I really want ?

I want his memories to be added to mine..his memories as he experienced it and everything that came after..and mine added to his.

I want that complete picture..I want nothing left unexposed..nothing.

If only science could just catch up with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Noodle

Noodle, our minds really do think alike. It's scary!

I don't want there to be any secrets left between them. That is why I had to know where they did it, how often, what positions, etc. H feels like I am beating him up with my questions lately, when I find I have more to ask. His thinking is, what more do you need to know? You know everything. He said once, "Sex is sex. There aren't that many different ways you can do it."

Just knowing that he did something so intimate with her that we had been experiencing for years has just done something to me. Frankly it didn't make him a better lover. It's good, but not as good. maybe it's his guilt and still holding back. Maybe it's me. When he really enjoys himself with me I just think to myself that he did the exact same thing with her, and totally enjoyed it. The extra bonus with her was he had those in-love feelings going on also.

DA**, this sucks! If I could only look at her as an old GF that came before he knew me. He enjoyed sex with others before we were Med. I had my first love before him, and the sex with him was excellant. somehow when your S has an A it's just not the same. Maybe SISF, or any other FWSs who might be reading your thread can chime in. For them I wonder if the sex with their Ss feels special again. CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want his memories to be added to mine..his memories as he experienced it and everything that came after..and mine added to his. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I keep telling my H that we need to do the Vulcan mind-meld. Perhaps if we go hang out at some conventions, we could learn?

Noodle,

You are a girl after my own heart... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kudos for posting this thread because this is something I experienced too but would NEVER have had the guts to post about had you not brought it up.

It felt too weird... too icky... too creepy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I put myself in OW`s skin too, I wouldn`t imagine H with her but I would imagine I was HER.

This is my take on it, part of what bothered me so much about the ONS was it was behind my back, I wasn`t there, I don`t know exactly what happened. I asked for all the details and I do think I got them from H however I felt I still wasn`t in on it. I was lacking the mental movie images that H and the OW share.

I asked for EVERY last detail... was her room upstairs or down? What was she wearing...what colour was her underwear? What did her boobs look like? What did her (ahem) neither region look like? What colour where the walls and sheets in her bedroom? What did she smell like and yes even what did she taste like?

I HAD TO HAVE some kind of image/memory of the event.

So then came the mental movie that I could play out.

And I played it till I got it out of my system.

I don`t think about it anymore.

One more thing, In my mind I did get inside her head and I imagine I know what the experience was like for her because I "played" her...but I`ll never know what it was like to be my H....I still wonder about what the whole experience was like for him. I figure it`s impossible for me to know that.

Daisy,

We are lacking the mental images that they share.

BINGO!

And also..

H is an artist..I have actually toyed with the idea of asking him to draw the whole thing for me.

Sick..moi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Noodle

Noodle,

I think some WS`s might look at the gory detailed questions I asked like the "taste" and the "neither region" and think I may be twisted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> but I`ll tell you...this was MY H experiencing something that should have belonged solely to me and I think that every detail as painful as it was for me to ask and for H to answer was necessary for me to eventually heal.

Sex with an OW happened in MY marriage, it is part of my marriage and it is my right to know exactly what goes on in my marriage.

The way I look at it the whole sorted episode belongs just as much to me as it does to H and the OW.

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

On the flip side, does anyone ever wonder if your H is imagining you ARE OW?? That's my problem. I would hate to think he was picturing her instead of me. I've stopped SF many times over this - or he does something he specifically did with her with me and I freeze up. There is one certain thing I told him he CANNOT do until I am 'past it.' Hoping I WILL get past it.

Interesting thread, noods.

Daisy,

You can come sit with me..in the freak section <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I couldn't agree more. With everything you have said..I have felt the same way.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fraggles:
<strong> On the flip side, does anyone ever wonder if your H is imagining you ARE OW??
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not anymore, I did at first and H and talked about it. He said he NEVER throught of her when he was with me ( I don`t know if this is true but there is no way verify so I don`t think about it anymore) however he did admit that in the three years between the ONS and the d-day he did dream about her. You know THOSE kind of dreams.

After d-day though his dreams about her changed. When he would dream about her the dreams would be nightmares...her popping up on the doorstep and causing trouble...me leaving him type of dreams.

The last time I asked (which has been awhile) he said he no longer dreams about her at all. Nightmares or otherwise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Now about a certain "act"... my H made the mistake of telling me the OW was the BEST EVER at the way she finished him off. Big big mistake to tell me that.

That`s one thing I have dropped from my repetoire. I have had to come up with something else to replace it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I wish I would have seen this thread the other day when I was feeling like a freak of nature for doing the exact same thing! I've told my H about it. He says he doesn't think of her during S either, he has never been able to do that. The OW wanted him to think of her when he was with me during the A and he told her he couldn't. That must have upset her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !
Anyway, an interesting twist in my story is that the OW asked my H if they could have a threesome with me involved! That is one thing I wonder if he still fantasizes about.

Edited: Oh, and one other thing. My H also told me that one things she did was better than me. That really bothered me, too, but it also became my goal to do it better. He tells me I have gotten very good at it, and now he would say I am not only a little better than her, but MUCH better, so don't drop it, make it your own!!!!!
Anyway, thanks for having the courage to post this. I no longer think I am soo strange! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: truetoself ]</small>

Daisy, and my H thinks I have asked detailed questions! The thing is I would like to continue asking everything you asked also. Noodle, just like you want your H to draw it for me, I have wanted my H to walk me through all the rooms at his business they did it in. I want to be allowed to ask any question that I want and to experience any emotion it brings up in me. I think if I do that it might help me exorcise the beast. H is scared to death to even think about doing that.

When I have been alone in the offices I find myself just staring and picturing them having sex. I'm not doing this to punish myself. It's almost like by thoroughly understanding it, by being a part of it, I can maybe put it back in the dark place where it belongs. CV

CV,

Yeah..there is ZERO punative aspect for me either.

None. Zip.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by truetoself:
<strong> Anyway, an interesting twist in my story is that the OW asked my H if they could have a threesome with me involved! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is it with these women????

Our OW asked my H for a threesome too but with another man!!!!!!!

I think she wanted to get her hooks back into my H and began grasping at straws...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> H is scared to death to even think about doing that.

I'm not doing this to punish myself. It's almost like by thoroughly understanding it, by being a part of it, I can maybe put it back in the dark place where it belongs. CV </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course your H is scared of it because it DOES hurt. It will hurt you and it will hurt him...but if YOU need those answers then you need them.

It`s horrible not knowing because you feel like there is still a secret going on...although you know about the A you`re still in the dark.

I didn`t get all the details in one shot...I got it in bits and pieces. H would say to "I don`t know" or "I don`t remember". But I was like a pitbull with a bone and I didn`t give up. I told him I had to know everything, be a part of it and see "it" as they did or I wasn`t going to be able to heal and let go. My H may have even made some of those answers up (the ONS was 3 years prior)...I don`t know....But
I had to have answers.