Hello, I am new to the discussion board and this is my first post. I am in need of some guidance. I have read the MB site thoroughly a few times but still do not understand my situation. Sorry if this is so long. Here we go.


My wife (33) and I (33) have been married for 10 years. I just found out 4 weeks ago that my wife was having an EA with the OM from her of work. All the signs were there a couple weeks before I found out and I didn’t want to believe it. I found out by reading emails on the computer. I do know it was “slightly” physical but I think it was mostly an EA. I am also not sure how long it was going on. I would say probably 2 months. The OM works in the same building as she does. She is at that building 3 days a week and at another building 2 days a week. When I confronted her about the A she denied it until I showed her printed emails. Within a day, she committed to breaking it off and having NC with the OM. However, they work together and I know that is impossible. I have asked her to resign at work or move into another position but she has refused. She says she loves her job to much. As far as I can tell (and I have been watching closely) she has not had any contact with OM (unless at work). She did tell me she had a meeting with him the other day and it was strictly business and other people were around. She will not talk about the A. If I bring it up she says she wants to leave and that it is too painful for her. She says she is angry with me and resentful that it came to this because I didn’t show my emotions enough in the past. I am willing to accept that I didn’t and work on it. I am in therapy for it now for it. I am willing to forgive her and commit to making this work. I have been expressing my feeling with her and she does not return any feelings. She said the only reason she committed to trying to make it work was because of our 2 children (4 and 5 yrs old). The last few weeks have been rocky for us emotionally up and down. The first 2 weeks the stress could have been cut by a knife. She was sleeping in a different room. Now she is now sleeping in the same room but we have had absolutely no physical contact what so ever. It is like there is a line drawn down the middle of the bed. She says she wants to make it work but I get very little positive vibes that she is trying. However, I did get some. She asked for a night out last weekend for us (just the 2 of us). We went to the mall and then out to eat. We had a great time but it was like friends. No hand holding, no hugging or talking about our true feelings. She will not tell me she loves me, I guess it is because she doesn’t. Is that something she can get over? What about the no physical contact we have had? I miss just laying in bed holding each other. I know I am a man and wired differently than a women but I need the emotional part just as much to go on very long and I am not getting it. I am trying to follow plan A but am wondering how long I can go on with it. It has only been 4 weeks but I do not really know what is reasonable to see some improvement. I just pray daily that she will let down her wall against me. I do love her very much but it is hard when it is not reciprocating. Any support/insight would be appreciated.
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No contact is the essential ingredient in marriage recovery after any kind of affair. If they are working together, you cannot start to rebuild your marriage because every day, your WW is in a position to make her vulnerable.
Because this has not developed into a full-blown PA, she might not see a need to change jobs. It's really tough for you. I suppose, for now, you need to continue your Plan A and let her see the best you can be. Not sure what should happen next. Hopefully, someone else can step in. Good luck. TT

Thanks TT. It is very hard and today is not a good day. She will not talk and we continue to have no physical contact. She pulls away even if I try to hug her. I am not sure what is next either....She tells me she is committed to NC but I don't believe her. I know she has an external email account that she could be using to contact OM. I would never know. She says she is committed to making it work but her action do not speak anything. I am trying to be meet her emotional needs but nothing is being deposited. I just feel hopeless and don't know if it ever will.....

options,

I think that you should assume that there is still contact. She still works at the same place and there will continue to be contact. She doesn't understand the need for absolute NC yet. She may think that contact in the workplace is OK. She may think that they can remain "friends". I think you know that that is not going to work but she probably does not realize it yet. She loves her job? Yes, but it's only a job. She may also be loving the fact that she continues to get the occasional "fix" from seeing him now and then. This is addiction and she will have to realize at some point that she will have to change jobs in order to recover from it.

So, what does this mean to you? It means that you need to work on your Plan A. Continue trying to learn how to meet her needs and put your own needs for affection on the back burner for now. She will open up to you when she feels that it is safe to do so. Try to create that safety. Try to let her know that she can tell you anything and she will not be punished with DJ (Disrespectful Judgement) or AO (Angry Outburst).

It is encouraging to me that she wants to stay together for the children; it means that she is not completely in fantasyland; many WS have absolutely no regard for their children whatsoever. It is very sad. You could tell her that you admire her for this. That might make a deposit to her LB.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We went to the mall and then out to eat. We had a great time but it was like friends. No hand holding, no hugging or talking about our true feelings. She will not tell me she loves me, I guess it is because she doesn’t. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be her friend. Create good times with her. These are Love Deposits. That is exactly what she needs right now and gives you the opportunity to meet her needs. Think of her as someone who you just met and are trying to get to know.

As far as her not loving you, she is very confused right now and doesn't know how she feels. Don't ask about her feelings cause she cannot answer any questions right now. Just listen. If she starts talking and rambles, gets angry, disrespectful, weepy, guilty, just let her go where she wants to go and try as best you can to bite your toungue and be sympathetic. If it gets to be too much for you and you feel like you're going to lovebust, feels like you're going to boil over, just tell her that you need to take a break. You can say how you feel and that you can't take anymore right now. Go for a walk; calm yourself.

It may take a while for her to show any encouragement or affection and even then she may feel like she is being dishonest because she doesn't want to get your hopes up.

If she is truly having no contact, or limited contact she will be experiencing withdrawl and be very difficult to be around because it is just like withdrawl symptoms from drugs; depression, irritabilty, hateful, etc. You will need to try and not take it personally.

I hope this helps. Keep posting. Others will give you advice but I would recommend only listening to those who give you advice based upon MB principles so you need to be able to distinguish. Study basic concepts and read "Surviving An Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs"

Plan A is very hard and many people don't seem to be able to do it. It is probably the hardest thing that you will do in your life but it sounds to me like you are motivated and that's what it takes to be successful.

Hello,

NO CONTACT is essential. She has made it clear to you that her job is more important to you than your marriage. She is in contact with him everyday. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. I strongly suggest marriage counseling. She is in contact with him everyday and refuses any physical contact with you. Apparently she feels you will accept and take all sorts of disrspect. I suggest that you read the book Love Must Be Tough by Dobson. There must be consequences to her actions. How do you think she would be reacting if the roles would have been reversed? You should make it clear that you indeed also have options if she continues with her behavior. I wish you luck.

"Love Must Be Tough" is an excellent book and I definitely recommend using those principles when it's time to go to Plan B. However, to me it sounds as if Plan A is still the best way to proceed at this time. I believe that an excellent Plan A followed by Plan B only if necessary is the best hope for a marriage surviving an affair.

Bryan - where has she made it clear that her job is more important than her marriage? How do you know that she is having contact everyday?
I gotta tell you honestly - you sound more like a marriage buster than a marraige builder. Do you not agree with Marriage Builder concepts?

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: legato ]</small>

Thanks legato,

I really think she wants to make it work but doesn't know how to remove the fog in her head. You are right about the NC. I have stressed that to her but I have to expect the worst and think that she is still having contact with OM. I don't think she knows the importance of that either. I do think she is going through some withdrawl now because she is experiencing all those symptons that you mentioned..depression, anger, irritable....I have messed up over the last few weeks and wanted her to talk feelings. That was a big mistake and seemed to push her away more. I have learned to just listen which isn't much either because she doesn't talk at all.

I also realize that it may take some time for her to show encouragement/affection but if someone could give me an insight to how long...I realize everybody is different but are we talking 2 months, 6 months, or 2 years. What is reasonable to expect?

legato, you are right. I am extremely motivated to make this work. I love her and the kids beyond imaginable.

Bryanp, I don't know if she was saying her job is more important than our marriage but I think she doesn't see her job as a problem to working it out. I think she thinks she is strong enough to do the NC at work. Or, maybe that is me wanting to believe that. I don't want her to think her actions are ok without any consequences but how do I show her that without breaking plan A?

Thanks for posting,
options

Legato:

I suggest you reread his original message. The wife had been lying about the emotional affair with some physical. He immediately asked her to resign her job because she works with the OM. Her reply was no because she loved her job too much!
I honestly do not see how you could not imply by logical inference that she puts her job above the recovery of her marriage? No contact is at the heart of marriagebuilders. I suggest that you reread his original message before your attack the motives of other responders.

options,

you are very perceptive - you asked

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want her to think her actions are ok without any consequences but how do I show her that without breaking plan A?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And the answer is that you can't do both. It's not for you to try and show her anything right now except that you love her and that you are willing to fight for your marriage and the woman that God has given you. I am sure that she is not very happy right now so in fact she is suffering the consequences of her actions.

If she continues with the A then the natural consequences will be forthcoming - Plan B is about letting them suffer the full consequences of their actions.

She is at least saying the right things. It sounds to me that she got in over her head without realizing. This happens very frequently when couples don't know how to affair-proof their marriages.

As to how long, continue studying MBs? It can take a while and each contact resets the clock just like a junky they have to start all over going through withdrawl.

She probably does not understand that this is what is happening. You can tell her but you have to go very easy with this because the addiction will defend itself when it feels threatened. Think of it as sending a little secret message to your wife who is buried somewhere inside the WW.

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: legato ]</small>

Thanks legato...

you are a good person and I appreciate your advice and support. I know it will be a long haul but again I will do what it takes to make it work. I have to really bit my tongue sometimes to avoid asking her talk about her feelings. I did not know this was wrong at first but with people like you, I can be guided in the right direction. As for the contact at work, that is my worst fear to making it work. I have to trust her now but hopefully she is honest with it. As for now I will concentrate on Plan A

options

BryanP,

I'm sorry that you feel that I am attacking your motives. My point is that you seem to not grasp MB concepts.

I agree that NC is necessary for recovery but in my experience, issuing a NC ultimatum rarely has the desired effect. Plan A involves negotiating for NC; persuading the WS to commit to NC.

Have you found the NC ultimatum to be a successful technique? Tell us your story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is at least saying the right things. It sounds to me that she got in over her head without realizing. This happens very frequently when couples don't know how to affair-proof their marriages.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">legato, I think you hit the nail on the head with this.....

options

You are very welcome.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for the contact at work, that is my worst fear to making it work. I have to trust her now but hopefully she is honest with it. As for now I will concentrate on Plan A
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the principles of NC is that she lets you know when there has been contact. And there can be no reprisal for this - if you want honesty you have to learn not to punish it.

One of the paradoxes of MB is that even though the BS is the one whose trust has been shattered, it is many times the WS who finds it difficult to trust - to trust that the changes they see in you are for real, that you won't revert back to your old ways, etc. Once they start to trust you, once they start to see that you are now kind and loving, they can begin the journey back home.

It has been said before here, that if you feel like a doormat, that means you are doing a good Plan A; there is plenty of time later to regain your self-esteem.

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: legato ]</small>

legato- you sound right on the money....again!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">to trust that the changes they see in you are for real, that you won't revert back to your old ways, etc. Once they start to trust you, once they start to see that you are now kind and loving, they can begin the journey back home.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My up bringing is from a family didn't open up and show their feelings very much. I know I have not been the best at that in the past. I now realize my problem and have been going to therapy for it. I know my wife has seen a difference in me (hopefully for the better) but she does not trust it is the true me. She has actually said that. It also seems like when I am kind and loving that it pushes her away. I think that is because she is putting a wall up because she doesn't trust me. Sound right? I am realizing it will take a lot of time to win her trust back while I struggle to trust her again.

I will be working on plan a all weekend! The hardest thing for me is to not asking her to share her feelings....but I am really working on it. I will bite my tongue.

I do feel like a doormat so that is encouraging. Thanks again for your advice and being supportive!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It also seems like when I am kind and loving that it pushes her away. I think that is because she is putting a wall up because she doesn't trust me. Sound right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that does sound right. It is very difficult for people to change, I think. And it's very difficult for those who know you well to accept that you have changed.

There is also, I think a kind of "fairness" at work in that they don't feel that they deserve to be loved or treated well when they have in fact done something that is very wrong. So she may feel undeserving of your love or forgiveness. Her own feelings of guilt may make her unable to accept kindness. It's like you're too good to be true. That's why I think it's important to let her know what your true feelings are, that you are in fact a real human being rather than a saint.

It's tricky because if, for example, you're feeling angry because of something that she has said, you can't express that anger in the way that you probably have in the past. But this does not mean that you "stuff" the feeling either. It's ok, I think, to say, "You know I love you very much, but this is making me very angry. Can we talk about something else?"

Thanks... I just wish I knew what she was thinking... This is so hard to take. Our weekend was so so. There was no improvment on anything. It is just frustrating that she must be so confused. I am trying my hardest to follow plan A and think I did a pretty good job this weekend. How do people do plan A for months? It has been 4 weeks and a few days for us. It is so hard to take being a doormat and not getting anything on return. I am sure I will do plan A for months if that is what it takes but it is so physically and emotionally draining... I express my feelings to her quite frequently in writing and verbally to her. She definitely knows how much I love her. It doesn't phase her though. Hopefully, or maybe it is working in a way that I just don't see. Any insight would be appreciated.

Options

Just make sure that your Plan A includes learning about what her most important ENs are and trying to fulfill them.

Yes, it is draining. This is a marathon rather than a sprint so you have to take care of yourself, physically and mentally, so that you can endure to the end. It's alright for you to take a break from her, go to the gym, go for a walk, etc. You don't have to try and be there with her at all times. Plan A involves a certain amount of detachment so that you can maintain your own mental health.

The doormat feeling comes mostly from not defending yourself when she engages in lovebusting or rewriting history as in, "it's all your fault". I don't know if she is saying these kinds of things to you yet but it seems to be very common.

So, take care of yourself also. Avoid appearing clingy or needy. They don't respect it.

If the expressions of your love are not having any effect then back off a bit on that; it's probably not what she needs right now. It may make her feel guilty in that she can't return those feelings right now.

I will try and back off on the expressions of love. It doesn't seem to have any impact on her when I express myself. I email her at work and I may or may not get an email back from her and if I do it is very generic and usually about small talk.

I will also take your advice and take a break on my own. I just get extremely nervous about that. Leaving her alone to do whatever she chooses... I guess the trust issue is what makes that hard for me. Maybe now she does see me as clingy or needy. Should I give her a break in the evenings too. We generally only have an hour or two in the evenings after the kids go to bed.

She goes out once or twice a week with her friend/friends. Most of the time it is just to shop or go out to eat. That makes me nervous too. I very rarely go out. If I were to go out as much as she did, we would see each other that much less. I can see where that would be good for a relationship. I don't know maybe at this time it is good? How should I handle Valentines Day? Should I take it light or really express my love?

I am trying to find out what her most important EN's are right now but do not feel as if I am finding out what they really are? Should I ask her to fill out the EN sheet? I don't know if she will do that but maybe it is worth a try. Other than that I am being very attentive to her needs and trying to fullfill them that way. Without any response how do you know though?