</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forever - I am committed to my wife - that's one reason I quit my EA several years ago. But my WS walked out tonight to be with her OM, and she has LBd me into the ground. I have no Love Bank left. THat s; why I'm asking for this help. This is too much for one man. I'm angry at my WS, I left OW 4 years ago, I am in Plan A, planning on Plan B, and knowing thay my Wife is in bed with her lover right now. And the only other woman I have ever fallen for contacts me out of nowhere - after 3 1/2 years. I don't want a part of this, but you have to - you MUST understand the irony and the confusion. I fell in love with this woman, and only my vows for my W kept me from ruining my marriage. Me W has never forgiven me for this A. And this woman is offerning friendship again. What would you do? Especially if you knew the hell my kids and I have been thru for the past few weeks.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">David, the issue is not What would you do? The issue is what would Jesus do.

I do not understand enough about your total situation to offer more that "knee jerk" responses to whatever you might post. So what would be helpful is for you point to a post where your entire situation is already posted OR to take the time to compose a complete "history" and post it so we'll have a better overview of the entire context.

For now, a few "knee jerk" reactions to things you've posted in this thread.

1) You said that your church "virtually" has thrown you out. There really is no such thing that I know of, either you are a member or you are not. Either you are in fellowship at your church or you are not. Please explain what you mean by "virtually" thrown out.

2) Please explain the faith you have and the type of church (denomination) that you identify yourself with. Since you obviously place a great emphasis upon your faith and upon God I need to know if you consider yourself a "born-again" Christian and also if your wife is a "born-again" Christian.

3) I'm not buying this "accidental" online contact by someone, especially in light of the "modifiers" that you put in your reasons for "going back to your wife." I suspect that you and your OW conversed online in the past and you have NEVER changed your online username, and probably not even your ISP. That "left the door" open for a contact, and with something like a "buddy list," you would each know when the other was online. So just HOW did the OW know where to IM you and how did she know the correct username that was YOU?

I have to tell you David, I am highly suspicious of this "story" and need a lot more facts before I believe that your "story" is real. Until I do, even if you really DO need help, it will be difficult to invest time in trying to help you.

So, on the chance that this is real, let me give you the best advice that can be offered to a Christian who is caught in the raging tempest and agonizing in fear of the unknown future.....

You said: "This is too much for one man."

God said: "I can do all things THROUGH him (Christ) who GIVES ME STRENGTH." (Phil.4.13)

David, it would appear that you have been trying to do things "in your own strength." But you, if you are a Christian, have God's own unlimited strength available to you, IF you are willing to submit your will to His will and let Him work in your life and in your marriage. Are you?

It's not the OW who's a danger, tanelornpete. It's you.

Instead of calmly blocking her from your e-mail and IM, you've gone into a sprial of panic.

How about if you stop it?

How about if you block her from access to you, and how about if you take a deep breath and grab hold of your emotions?

I mean, let's look at this. Your wife is moving out and your church asked you not to take communion. All right, I can see that those two things would be painful for you.

Are you going to lash out in your pain? Are you going to reach out and pull someone else (an OW) into your cycle of pain and destruction?

I would ask that you not do that.

I would ask that you sit with yourself and your emotions and understand that your panic and your fear are YOURS, not anyone else's. There are other people who, in this same situation, can and have reacted dramatically differently. That you are reacting this way is because you are you -- and I value that -- and I would like to know if there are other ways that you, as a genuine human being, can also react.

I'm betting the answer is yes. I'm betting that you have the capacity for greatness. How about if you step up to the plate, let go of panic, and act in serenity instead?

Thanks guys, for all the advice.I lost it last nigt

1)No,I never changed my screenname- it's always been the same IM name. Yes, part of our affair was via IM, I just deleted her from my list and address book. If I am on her contact list, she can see that I am onine. I don't really want to change it because I have a lot of friends that I do keep in contact with via MSN

2) My guess is that Leslie has been reading the posts on here- apparently she discovred MB after her recent husband of two years cheated on her.

3) I requested NC,she replied that she would honor that, that she was wrong to have contacted me last night and knew it, and she appologized to everyone on the MB discussion board

4) It was my fault for replying to her IM -it took me by surprise, and I was feeling a little sorry for myself last night.

5) I blocked Leslie from my contact list, she knows I was going to do it.

6) I asked if she had any help for OTHER people - she said she's been studying material on here for a long time and has insights into things that might help others.

7) I don't know her MB screenname.

8) THIS IS IMPORTANT: Just because an affair ends, you CANNOT think that somehow you may completely forget that person over time. I thought I was over her, the contact stirred up the desire for her friendship - she filled ENs that my W refused, and refuses to do for me. It was such a blow to me that I posted immediately on MB, I hadn't expected that it could happen so fast.

9) Now the damned withdrawal stage might set in, although I feel a lot better after requesting NC and blocking her. I think it was just a gut reaction to the desire I have that my wife fill some ENs that she won't, and I can't expect her to.

Hope that clears up some - it was my bad, but I thought it better to bring it up here than keep it to myself. The biggest problem is that I have to tell Cheryl, which is going to give her a boost for her A.

I am a Christian, so is my W. I trust that God knows why He does what he does when he does it, and that it is always for the right reason. Maybe this was to strengthen my work on changing my LB of staying closed (Dishonesty) - have to tell W, even if it costs me.

David

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

****We must have been posting at the same time David*******

Oh David-

You have got to get yourself in check....take a valium, get a fricken grip on yourself.

I too, have to ask, why on earth this woman has your instant messenger ID. Surely you didn't just add her, which, to me means, that she's been on the list all along.

Everything that happens to you sends you into this frenzy, you've got to get yourself under control....I myself have been completely out of control, I believe I finally have it in check....my point is, whenever I read a post, I try to put myself in that persons position. So, I have attempted to put myself in your position....I would have shut that messenger down the second the IM popped up, I know it might seem attractive for someone to want to know how you're feeling, since your WW is too lost to care right now, but it's not the answer, AND YOU KNOW IT. Would you be in this position right now if you'd never had an EA?? So, this, in some way might be your punishment. You are asking for trouble in even talking to this woman, or entertaining the idea of talking to her. You are coming close to making the same choice that your wife made that is hurting you so badly currently.

I UNDERSTAND the thinking that you can't believe you are going through this unbelievable bullsh*t, when there's obviously going to be SOMEONE out there who would treat you with the respect you deserve.....David, you didn't marry someone else, you married your wife. Getting kicked out of your church is going to seem like childsplay in comparison to what getting re-involved with this woman is going to be like.

Isn't your situation complicated enough?!?!?! Good lord David, use your head for something other than a hat rack.

This is a HORRIBLE, AWFUL, UNFAIR experience...I understand, believe me I understand...I wish I didn't understand...but you HAVE to be the better person, you have to be the rock...the lighthouse. You can't just leave the light unattended in the lighthouse, you have to be there, you have to be tending it, or your wife is going to be coming towards it only to crash into the jagged rocks.

Don't you see this is too easy....nothing this easy is worth it David. Even if it doesn't end up working out between you and your wife, this OW is NOT the answer.

I know you don't think anyone understands, but I DO understand, the allure of having someone to talk to, to care about you, to just give a damn that your alive, is very hard to resist, but resist you must. The thought has crossed my mind more than once, well why am I doing all of this, wouldn't it be easier to let him go and just find someone else? Yes, it would be easier, but is that what I signed up for? For better, or until the going gets tough, then I'll bail. No...it's for better or for worse...in sickness and in health. DAVID THIS IS THE WORSE!!!!! THIS IS THE SICKNESS!!!!!!!!!

Think about your children....YOU are the only one that has had their welfare at heart through this, and now you're thinking of abandoning the moral ship as well.....THIS IS CRAZY David!!!! Do you really want to get down in the mud with her? You need to be there to pull her out, not lay down in it with her and roll around.

David, through all your posts you've told us how much you love your wife, how you just want her back, you've been doing all of these things to save you marriage, and one single IM derails your whole plan. This was not a sturdy plan to begin with.

You think I don't have temptation? You think other men don't look at me? Yes David, they do....I could have any man I wanted, if I wanted him......I DON'T!! I got married to my husband for life, and....checks pulse....yep, sometimes I feel like I'm 1/2 dead, but I do have a pulse.

Get ahold of yourself!!! Go re-read your old posts....REMEMBER WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS!!!!!!!!

-Caren

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

You're right, Caren - I wsa not in good shape last night - first night with her gone, and I wonder if that's why the contact from XOW - I know her - she was probably genuinely trying to give some comfort, and I know she realizes the error. She sent me an appolgy to everyone on the board, and I have blocked her.

She may also be an opportunist, though I don't think so. I think she wasn't thinking clearly last night. We only had a very brief talk, bascially she asked how I was, could sense that I was in trouble, and that was it - I told her I was working on M, that we couldn't have contact, and that I had to block her from IM. She said she understood, sent me the appology - I told her to post it on here, but then realized I would then know her screenname, so I asked her not to. She sent me the appology, and signed off. I blocked her name, and that was it.

It's wierd how fast old emotions can jump in. I wasn't doing well last night, had just intended to read thru posts and lurk, hoping to impove my plan A and learn some RB, but I felt that I needed to stay accountable to everyone here, hence the reason for this thread.

Thanks - am thinking a bit more clearly.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Are you? You are still justifying the OW's reason for contacting you....are you thinking clearly David? She *sensed* you weren't doing okay or that you might need her? Boloney!!!

I think you are thinking that she's on the back burner.....

You can't just block her, because that would mean a couple clicks and she's unblocked.

You were awful focused on the timing....weird timing.....same night WW left OW IM's.....Kismet?

You need to blow up that ID on your messenger, make a new one, and then don't hip her to it.

-Caren

Ok...

I see things from a possibly different perspective here...although I am with Ark on alot of points.

First, I believe that your ww is suffering from possibly a revenge affair. You can have no idea how much being a BS hurts until YOU ARE ONE. And you are hurting like never before right? You met some woman, some woman who most likely learned how to use MB against a family, and a marriage to put forward HER own agenda...I know...my xh's ow#1 even took my xh to a Tommy Thompson "Song of Solomon" conference at a church nearby my family home to supposedly show him how much she "loved" him and wanted him to "save" his marriage. Yea, right. She slept with him the same day. Can we say evil? Let's say it together...evil.

I am myself wondering how this OW could find MB? You chose it to maybe learn how to end your A with her...

Either way, you HURT YOUR W. BIG TIME. AN A IS HARD TO GET OVER. YOUR STATEMENTS ARE STILL DEAD ON FOGGY AND SHE MOST LIKELY FELT HER LB BANK GO BUST ALL THE WHILE YOU WERE "GETTING OVER" THE OW...AKA..THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. How do I know? I was a BS. And the actions of my wxh did nothing but in the end drive me to become completely emotionally absent...well except for disdain and distrust of him. Other than that, he made life as a single woman (except financially) easy for me. I had no issues reentering the dating world last year a month or so after my D was final. So I can assume your WW is feeling very similar.

What did you do to ENCOURAGE HER EN'S? What did you do to make her feel wanted? What did you do?

And then you announce here that your xOW is on MB? That she's read all Harley's stuff? Imho...if she even read ONE book by harley, she'd understand the importance of sticking her nose up her own nether regions and staying out of somebody else's marriage. Especially if she and you almost caused the demise of a family.

Yea, I am not sure about your story. And I am nauseated that an OW and a conspirator in home wrecking is here and learning our marriage secrets of healing...btw...she wouldn't be the first OW or the first OM who would learn MB techniques to strengthen an A...I think something is very very fishy here.

Your w leaves you. You suddenly hook up online with the former OW. Your sig line below does NOT show that you first betrayed your W either...you are leaving out alot here. I feel you're leaving out alot.

I don't buy the IM thing. There was a guy I dated last year who was on my buddy list. I blocked and pulled him off. He tried calling me after seeing me in a grocery store. I blocked his number. You can have peace if you design it to be that. You can have NC if you really want it. I think you WANTED IT.

Yea, your w is a ww. But she's also a BS. You might forget that b/c it's all about your pain now. You being betrayed. Put yourself in her shoes for a while. She may be in more pain than you could imagine. The coldness and lack of emotion that we endure, the BS endure at the hand of a WS going through Affair withdrawal is hard to deal with. You were sad because your female plaything was gone. You were hurting. You were missing your extramarital playmate. Meanwhile, your w was hurting. She was feeling lower than ever. Her self esteem was hurt. Her vows were crushed. She may have felt that even though you stayed, you really weren't there. And after the vows were broken, what was left? A shallow shell? What?

Your responses and attitude is indicative of somebody still in an affair fog. You're just upset now because that same problem found its way to you.

Kids don't need this kind of drama. But yet here it comes. See what a nasty chain of events is the result of letting your gonads control your brain? That's why God said it's wrong to do. Why it's one of HIS top 10.

Don't bring the OW here. I wouldn't like it.

Have you tried to Plan A your wife well? Doesn't sound like it. She's rebelling actively against most likely your Affair. She wants her needs met. She felt unloved. She felt betrayed. She felt alone. Can you fill in her blanks?

Do a flawless plan A for a good long while. Go after your W with the same energy you went after the OW. Sounds cruel and harsh, but it is what it is. You have to do that. Your kids deserve a family. This is so sad. But I think you're still leaving alot out. Let us know when you're ready to really spill and say it like it is.

David,

1st of all is she is posting here, out of respect for her, you should remove her name and replace it with OW or another (non pet/affectionate name i.e. 'antique buff' or something generic).

2nd, go hug your children. I think Caren made that suggestion earlier. I will shre my story on that. Over 25 years ago, I met and fell in love (yep the real deep kind), with a man who was separated from his W. I did not know it at the time. We worked closely together but not in the same area. We shared common interests. He had 2 sons, neither of which were his. His W was pregnant with one b4 they married and then when he was in the navy at sea, she decided to do it again w/o him. He had the 2nd child tested about that time.

Feelings were mutual. His W found out before it went PA and I was not about to let it go PA without being M'd. He had the D papers ready and then asked me to marry him.

One big difference. Our religious preference was different. He attended a few of our meetings to find out but it was not for him. I respected that. He had no one holding him back but I had my convictions. I was quite young then and this was the 1st guy who I really fell for. I envisioned us together. So did he. Well once I found out his true marital status and the fact that another girl was hitting on him big time. I pulled out. I had to let my love go for much higher reasons. I was not a saint or anything of that nature. I just knew it was not right.

I even had a meeting between this OW (who was a desparate single mom with 2 girls - she even had surgery to untie her tubes because she wanted to have this guy's children. Anyway, he didn't want her but she was relentless. I setup a meeting with the 2 of them and told him that they needed to work something out. I was pulling out of any R with him.

Now I need to step back and tell you that because he had not told me about the separation with his W, I found out when she decided to call our office to complain about some recipes she found. Our entire office and a few others were trading recipes (including him - he loved to cook) and because he had mentioned my recipe, I suspected she went on a hunch. She called me and asked if her H was having an A with anyone in the office? I said, I'm not sure, he is a nice person, I will give that info to my boss. Then I marched down to him very angry that I just had a convo w/his WIFE!!!

He apologized and told me they were separated and even wanted to show me where he lived vs his family. I was fuming.

I thought about it for a long time, then after the other OW fiasco, I ended it.

The way I ended it though was that I told him, that I was hurt he could not be honest with me. Lying was a big NO NO. As a result of his current status. my personal beliefs and his lying, I had to ask he not contact me except for work items.

Then I stipulated that if he ever saw me again to cross the street and walk to the other side.

That was over 25 years ago. Then about 8 years ago, I was shopping at Costco. My baby (then about 2 1/2) was in the cart and when I went up the meat counter, I saw him. I stopped dead in my tracks. All those feelings rushed back. I got flushed. He also spotted me. I rushed quickly to anothre aisle. I kept looking at my handsome son and saying 'I love my son, I love my H'. I repeated this all during the rest of my shopping, careful not to meet up with him again. My legs were weak, I almost fainted, I wondered if I looked flushed. I did my shopping and went in line. When I got there I saw him afar off in another line looking for me. I hid in a line far away. I never saw him again. He kept my request.

I went home and a couple of years later, I told my H. This was before H's A.

My point is to concentrate on the realities in your life...... your children. This 'friend' if she is really a friend will respect your need to stay away at this time. The test of your friendship may hurt you and her for now but in the long run respect will be the greater value.

I still love this person, more now because he respected my request. I was very young when all this started. I am glad, my convictions and our mutual respect for each other kept us from making a mistake.

BTW in the fog, WS (my H) told me to go find this man and maybe work something out with him. This was near d/d when WS thought he was doing me a favor and tried to match me up with one of his friends and this guy he had never met.

Talk about fog!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Just sharing a story to help you pull out of this emotional rut.

Love your children.

take care,
L.

dup post - oooops

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

O - I did replace her name - and I realized this morning that the feelings that I went thru last night were false, I was being a fool. However, the reason I posted here was to hold myself accountable.

No, she is not an a 'back shelf' - I don't know where she lives and I don't care. I did not even have her name in my contacts list at all, which means that she had mine. She used an entirely different screenname that what she had before, so until she ID'd herself, I didn't know it was her. Since I have her blocked, she can't see me online, and I'm trying to figure out how to remove her new screenname from MSN mssngr - it won't delete out of the blocked names list.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with everyone here - she was not trying to help, she was jumping at the bit to get into the fray, and I'm very angry about that. Like I said last night, I hadn't slept much in 4 days - I finally slept almost 8 hours last night. I think sleep dep and depression had made me insane.

I am not interested in her, got over that a long time ago, what I did with her hurt my family, and me, and it took a long time to work that out - I am still not sure it's all resolved. I am going to tell my wife about the contact last night. I owe her that much, I promised I would tell her if XOW ever contacted me. Of course I'm nervous about that, but honesty is one of those things that I have to stay up on.

I was so taken by the fact that feelings I thought were gone could come back in a flash - that is my warning to anyone who thinks an A is 'over' just because you've fallen out of 'love' and been gone for a llong time. An affair is way too dangerous. I now know why Dr Harley insists on NC. That was poison last night, and I believe it was a warning from God that you have to stay the course consistently and rely on Him, because it can happen so fast.

I truly appologize to everyone here for my actions last night - it was wrong of me to pursue that conversation with her even long enough to know she was reading off of this site. It may help her somehow, but she can stay the h*** out of my life.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,

Glad you protected her id. Is she posting on MB? Her intentions are questionable but c/b also sincere. Not sure and it shouldn't matter. What matters is how you are handling it.

As for telling your W, make sure you tell your W and not the WS. So make sure she is in the W frame of mind when you tell her. Can't strss that enough. WS' will process your sincere honesty efforts as hostile or spin it against you. They are soooo good at that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Glad you have your compsure back. It is a yucky road to travel..... all those pitfalls and rocks, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You will make it. Put on those MB hiking boots. The ones with good ankle support and enough calf coverage for when you step into that pile of _______ (A crap). LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Hi justpeachy:

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, I believe that your ww is suffering from possibly a revenge affair. You can have no idea how much being a BS hurts until YOU ARE ONE. And you are hurting like never before right? You met some woman, some woman who most likely learned how to use MB against a family, and a marriage to put forward HER own agenda...I know...my xh's ow#1 even took my xh to a Tommy Thompson "Song of Solomon" conference at a church nearby my family home to supposedly show him how much she "loved" him and wanted him to "save" his marriage. Yea, right. She slept with him the same day. Can we say evil? Let's say it together...evil.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EVIL. No, my wife is having an A because I failed to meet her ENs. I came to this site when I realized I was losing her - long before her affair, and I didn't come here to get over my other affair, although I am going to have to work on that a bit, I can tell right now. I thought it was over - I've described it in many other posts. As far as I'm concerned, it is over, I had never requested a NC from her - mostly because when that affair ended, it had died a natural death, I had confessed it to my wife, and the XOW had moved to some other state and married someone. Actually, all I know is her first name now - don't know who she married, or how many marriages she has been thru since then - don't care, her name is XOW from now on.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am myself wondering how this OW could find MB? You chose it to maybe learn how to end your A with her...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose exacltly the same way I did - looking for ways to improve my marriage. The biggest problem is that I used the same screen name I've used for years, so it wouldn't be hard for her or anyone else who knows it to find me.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Either way, you HURT YOUR W. BIG TIME. AN A IS HARD TO GET OVER. YOUR STATEMENTS ARE STILL DEAD ON FOGGY AND SHE MOST LIKELY FELT HER LB BANK GO BUST ALL THE WHILE YOU WERE "GETTING OVER" THE OW...AKA..THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. How do I know? I was a BS. And the actions of my wxh did nothing but in the end drive me to become completely emotionally absent...well except for disdain and distrust of him. Other than that, he made life as a single woman (except financially) easy for me. I had no issues reentering the dating world last year a month or so after my D was final. So I can assume your WW is feeling very similar.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In some ways you are right - she did die emotionally after my affair, and we were working on some things - but she has never been there afterwards. It wasn't till I found MB that I figured out how to change myself to fill her needs.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What did you do to ENCOURAGE HER EN'S? What did you do to make her feel wanted? What did you do?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the most part, I just tried very hard to do what I thought pleased her, but things couldn't change till I learned how to STOP LBing, which is something that this site helps with better than any other.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And then you announce here that your xOW is on MB? That she's read all Harley's stuff? Imho...if she even read ONE book by harley, she'd understand the importance of sticking her nose up her own nether regions and staying out of somebody else's marriage. Especially if she and you almost caused the demise of a family.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. And that is why I've changed my mind about why she contacted me - she seemed concerned - but I think she was up to much more.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yea, I am not sure about your story. And I am nauseated that an OW and a conspirator in home wrecking is here and learning our marriage secrets of healing...btw...she wouldn't be the first OW or the first OM who would learn MB techniques to strengthen an A...I think something is very very fishy here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hadn't thought of it that way until you brought that up. I sort of assumed everyone on here is here for help and improvement. Little gullible on my side. I can't change what you think of my story - I can only work on my M, which is all I intend to do. My point in posting THIS THREAD was to hold myself immediately accountable for my actions, I feel that that is a way to force me to change things about myself that I may not want to. Hopefully you can read up on my story a bit. There've been some rocky times, but I also see some real improvement in my relationship with my wife, even though right now it's really, really bad.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your w leaves you. You suddenly hook up online with the former OW. Your sig line below does NOT show that you first betrayed your W either...you are leaving out alot here. I feel you're leaving out alot.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tried to put more info in the sig, but it only allows a certain amount. I can change it tho, my wife has withdrawn her desire to D me - said she really doesn't want to.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't buy the IM thing. There was a guy I dated last year who was on my buddy list. I blocked and pulled him off. He tried calling me after seeing me in a grocery store. I blocked his number. You can have peace if you design it to be that. You can have NC if you really want it. I think you WANTED IT.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said before, she wasn't on my contact list, she came on with a different screen name. I set up MSN so that only people in my contact list can see me now, and I DID block her - last night as soon as I could. But I'd like to remove her new screenname from my blocked list - still trying to figure out how to do that.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yea, your w is a ww. But she's also a BS. You might forget that b/c it's all about your pain now. You being betrayed. Put yourself in her shoes for a while. She may be in more pain than you could imagine. The coldness and lack of emotion that we endure, the BS endure at the hand of a WS going through Affair withdrawal is hard to deal with. You were sad because your female plaything was gone. You were hurting. You were missing your extramarital playmate. Meanwhile, your w was hurting. She was feeling lower than ever. Her self esteem was hurt. Her vows were crushed. She may have felt that even though you stayed, you really weren't there. And after the vows were broken, what was left? A shallow shell? What?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. I haven't forgotten what I did - its all through many of my posts - MANY of them. And yes, I did not understand how to fill her ENs - otherwise, she would not be a WS right now. THAT'S WHAT I'M WORKING ON.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your responses and attitude is indicative of somebody still in an affair fog. You're just upset now because that same problem found its way to you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree. I fell for it last night, but it's been a long time, and I've worked past that part of my life. I posted here as a warning that this is proof that NC is necessary.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kids don't need this kind of drama. But yet here it comes. See what a nasty chain of events is the result of letting your gonads control your brain? That's why God said it's wrong to do. Why it's one of HIS top 10. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was an EA, would have developed into a PA, but did not. It ended. My kids are my main concern, pleas understand. They are not going to be involved in this - even if she moved back here - which I rather doubt. She's a predator - just hunts men down. There are plenty where she is without having to bother the expense of coming here to find me.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't bring the OW here. I wouldn't like it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no intention of that. I don't know her MB screenname, which means that I am suspicious of anyone knew who may post on my threads, but I trust those of you that I've shared my story with.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do a flawless plan A for a good long while. Go after your W with the same energy you went after the OW. Sounds cruel and harsh, but it is what it is. You have to do that. Your kids deserve a family. This is so sad. But I think you're still leaving alot out. Let us know when you're ready to really spill and say it like it is. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe I have, and I think others can attest to that. I am working the best plan A I can, and I see its effects all the time. I never went after the OW, we were co-workers, things developed into something that should never have happened. I am 'pursuing' my wife with plan A, I am doing the right thing.

David

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> David,

Glad you protected her id. Is she posting on MB? Her intentions are questionable but c/b also sincere. Not sure and it shouldn't matter. What matters is how you are handling it.

As for telling your W, make sure you tell your W and not the WS. So make sure she is in the W frame of mind when you tell her. Can't strss that enough. WS' will process your sincere honesty efforts as hostile or spin it against you. They are soooo good at that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Glad you have your compsure back. It is a yucky road to travel..... all those pitfalls and rocks, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You will make it. Put on those MB hiking boots. The ones with good ankle support and enough calf coverage for when you step into that pile of _______ (A crap). LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you O. I should keep expecting blindsides - it's just that I sort of thought they'd come from my WW, not my XOW. Part of the growing process God has for me.

And you are right - it's possible that she IS here for her benefit - I should keep that in mind. I just don't want her posting on my threads. That's making me angry. How am I going to know? More proof that the mess an A makes of a life can haunt you for a long, long time.

David

Nothing to add that can add to the good advice you've already received.

The thing that concerns me is, that being a FWW, myself it means one of the FWW's on here is the FOW and, not only does it call our (all the FWW's on here) integrity into account (everyone will be wondering if it's one of us) it means someone I probably post to or with could be the FOW in your case which makes me VERY uncomfortable.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong> Nothing to add that can add to the good advice you've already received.

The thing that concerns me is, that being a FWW, myself it means one of the FWW's on here is the FOW and, not only does it call our (all the FWW's on here) integrity into account (everyone will be wondering if it's one of us) it means someone I probably post to or with could be the FOW in your case which makes me VERY uncomfortable.

Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me too. Like I said, an affair is way more disastrous than it even seems to be - it;s hard to say when the damage may stop.... I'm so sorry.

David, no need to apologise. Like you say A's send out ripples for year's to come.

I'm sure you'll do the right thing - and you know what the right thing is.

Jen

I am glad you are A'ing your W. I am praying for a recovery btw.

And yes, OP do come here. How do i know? My xh had his OW come here and read after I had printed off some of Harley's articles about ending an affair three years ago. And then she took him to see a Christian program for strengthening marriages...and slept with him.

Work on doing a good plan A. I can tell you, Redhat here is the king of good plan A's. Also, I have read Bob Pure's posts and he's pretty darn great at it as well. Redhat has the EN thing really down! I'd contact either of them to find out what you CAN do to help bring their A to an end. Again, Orchid is great at helping WS see their actions by using their own words against them..

Some call it reverse babble, I prefer to call it "MENTAL JU JITSU"...I think Orchid would like that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Like taking their own actions and having them use it against them...you're not LB'ing by doing it, you're just allowing for a brief moment of clarity.

We all want your M to work out. If you were still LB'ing your W, that could push her further away.

Did you two try counselling? Did you talk to the Harleys?

I talked to SH once and then went to a great counselor. SH asked me to see if he could get my WH (back then) to talk. My then WH would not talk to any professional WITH me. But only went in to see a counselor (first one and more of a christian divorce counselor than healer) and LIED off his buttocks to her...

It can take time. Have you REVEALED THE AFFAIR YET? I think that is key. Keep plan A'ing. Contact plan A masters here. And talk to SH. He's good. See if you can get your ww to talk to SH. And become a master at reverse babble.

Really seek hard your ww's EN's right now. She may be acting out of pain still. I know. Even though I have moved on in my life, the remembrance of the hell I lived thru does not go away...it is something I transfer...take that energy to see if I can help out somebody else.

Again, contact the A Masters...the "A" team if you'd call it...and seek my other buddy to learn how to converse with the ultimate fogged person.

Hi JP -

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all want your M to work out. If you were still LB'ing your W, that could push her further away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was really adept at some LBs - and that did drive into W/D - for a while after my A we worked at things but because I knew nothing about LBs or ENs we were running blind and basically nowhere. I blame myself for creating the hole in her life that left her vulnerable to OM.

I found this website in late Sep, started learning and changing myself, but not fast enough to save our M - I think by that time her A was already beginning - don't know for sure, except that regardless of my working an unintentional plan A (I was just trying to build her Love Bank) she kept up with the same arguments about me that I knew couldn't be true - I attributed it to resentment at me blinding her to any changes I may have been making - could have been the fog setting in already) In Dec I discovered her A, but wasn't really sure, or didn't want to believe it- so I kept it to myself and started studying the message boards. In Jan found irrefurable proof, and confronted her and exposed the affair and moved into a deliberate plan A. The fog is so thick right now that I hardly know her.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you two try counselling? Did you talk to the Harleys?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She agreed to and MC,told me I could pick one.I chose the Harleys, she refused, wanted to see someone in person. We went once, turned out he was a divorce councelor, advised her to get out of our marriage to be happy. We never went back -I refused, she could care less - had all the reason she needed. Yesterday she moved into a house.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really seek hard your ww's EN's right now. She may be acting out of pain still. I know. Even though I have moved on in my life, the remembrance of the hell I lived thru does not go away...it is something I transfer...take that energy to see if I can help out somebody else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can imagine there is some pain there still. Would be for me. I have narrowed things down to 3 major ENs and am working on them. I have managed a pretty good plan A - it's caused a lot of problems for her A, and brought her out of W/D into conflict stage. Still working plan A. Was almost ready to do Plan B for a while, but have decided to stay in Plan A - she responded in a very positive way this morning - first time in months - she acknowledged that she did see a change in one of my 'patterns'(what she calls my LBs) and was happy that I had come up with a way for us to work on it together, which is a major step, because it opens a whole new lane for communication.

I've been extremely stressed throughout this whole time - mostly because she refused to quit the A, has managed to either blame me for it or make me feel guilty for it, she has justified it to herself so completely that she thinks its 'in the stars'. I've had to be very dilligent about the whole thing- it's tough.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, contact the A Masters...the "A" team if you'd call it...and seek my other buddy to learn how to converse with the ultimate fogged person. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the advice - who's your other buddy? My wife is really fogged right now....

David

David,

You are getting some great advice. ForeverHers was right on!! But I had two notes for you.

Number one...you are NOT responsbile for your wife's affair. Do you understand that? Obviously, you do not. There is a difference between being responsible and being culpable. You may have created a climate where an affair would be considered. But it is her own moral failures that put her in an affair. Period. Do not take responsibility for that which you did not do. Please understand the difference between responsibility and culpability.

Number two...who do you think sent OM to your wife? Who do you think sent that OW you had to you? Why do you think "all of a sudden" she pops up, just at the right time? Do you think this is all just some accidental thing? Or could it be that someone is behind this?

Satan does not want you to succeed. Do you understand this? There is a battle going on here. Your wife is in the grip of Satan as we speak. She believes his lies. That OM, while I am NOT saying he is evil or anything like that, was not sent to her by God. You know that. So, if he wasnt sent by God, and God says that there is no neutrality on Earth (it either is His will or it is of Satan), then who do you think sent the OM to your wife? Who do you think sent the OW to you? Come on, this isnt rocket science here. You are a believer. Since you are, you have the Holy Spirit in you. Unlike those that are not saved, you can see this battle going on, if you will just listen to Him. The next time you are attacked like this, stop for a moment and ask "Who sent this?" If you dont know, then pray and research in the Bible. Or ask your pastor for help. But once you ask that question, God said He would answer it. I am trying to find the passage in Scripture where that promise is. But He does promise that in a trial, that if you ask, He will disclose what is going on. So ask.

Oh here is that passage: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">James 1:2 Dear brothers and sisters,* whenever trouble comes your way, let it be an opportunity for joy. 3 For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. 4 So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be strong in character and ready for anything.
5 If you need wisdom-if you want to know what God wants you to do-ask him, and he will gladly tell you. He will not resent your asking. 6 But when you ask him, be sure that you really expect him to answer, for a doubtful mind is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 People like that should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 They can't make up their minds. They waver back and forth in everything they do."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did the same stuff. Satan would attack, and I would fall for it. Until one day, I started askign the question "Who is behind this?" So, when the attacks would come, I would ask the question. Then I would realize it was of Satan, and I would pray that the Lord protect me...and Satan had to leave. And the trial was over.

Shoot, now I just laugh at these silly attacks. I say silly because David, Satan has no power over you. He does over non-believers, but not you. You have the Holy Spirit. God and Satan cannot inhabit the same space. So, your attack is from the outside. You have so much power at your disposal that you are not using.

My pastor helped me start with a little mantra. What would happen was when these attacks came, I would immediately pray for God's wisdom, and once I knew that they were not of God...then I prayed that they would go away. Eventually, I worked it out with the Lord that I would have one phrase that would suffice for my lengthy prayer. That instad of a lengthy prayer, I would just say this phrase over and over until the attack ended. And God knew what I meant by the phrase.

Do you want to know what that phrase was? It was "This is a lie!!" Satan lies to us. He wants us to doubt God, to give up. So I would just say "Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie..." over and over again under my breath or in my head. And the attack would end.

Now, while I do get attacked, just liek we all do...I can laugh at it. I told my wife the other day that I do not need to defend the truth. State it...and leave it. Those that reject it do so at their own peril. So, my arguments have pretty much ended with her. I do not feel the need to defend myself anymore, or to get her to see my point of view. I just state what I believe, and get off it.

And an amazing thing has happened to both of us. The old attacks, that would get us both riled up and her ready to run back to OM...have ended.

Your marriage has gotten to this point because neither of you have been close enough to the Lord to see the attacks. If both of you had been following Him, you would not be where you are now.

Time to lead your family. And your wife. How? Not by word of mouth. By actions. Follow Christ, and she will know. Follow Christ...and ultimately, everything will work out for your good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jeremiah 29 "8 The Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says, "Do not let the prophets and mediums who are there in Babylon trick you. Do not listen to their dreams 9 because they prophesy lies in my name. I have not sent them," says the Lord. 10 "The truth is that you will be in Babylon for seventy years. But then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised, and I will bring you home again. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me in earnest, you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be found by you," says the Lord. "I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and bring you home again to your own land."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

David,

This contact was on-line, right?

Are you sure it's not your wife pretending to be the OW - just to get you in trouble. She has her legal friends to advise her. Don't be a dupe.

-AD