Dear BitOlder,
I thought about getting offended by your post, but then decided not to expend the energy on it. You are in my prayers.
KK

I have never posted here before. Just registered tonight, in order to respond to this thread. I am a former WW, and am now divorced. So you can see why I have never felt I had the right to post here. This is a sanctuary for those healing from EMR's, and trying to heal their marriages. I understand that, and I truly hope my post does not upset anyone here.

The reason I felt compelled to post here, is that I had a similar situation. I had a neighbor who was obviously attracted to me. I started having feelings for him, as well. My XH was not blind. He saw this. So, he decided to "take control" of the situation and initiated a threesome. I tried, weakly and pathetically, I admit, to stop it. I told him it was a bad idea. I should have walked out of the room. But I went through with it.

Well, to make a long story short, the neighbor and I fell "in love" and embarked on an affair. XH's plan to control the situation blew up in his face. I do not blame him for my EMR, it was my choice and my decision, and it was wrong. But, by condoning physical relations between XMM and myself, he unwittingly opened the door to a full-blown affair that eventually destroyed our marriage (yes, there were other issues in the M, but this one was the proverbial straw).

So my advice would be to really think about how this will affect your M. You may "think" you can handle it (as my XH did), but you may not be prepared for what it may lead to. It's asking for trouble. No matter how liberal, free, and easy you may think you are, you have no idea how an extramarital relationship can damage something you thought was a strong marriage.

Also, I agree with the others that this is not the place to post this. Please try to think of how this situation will trigger and upset the posters who are truly hurting from infidelity.

Again, please forgive me if I'm out of bounds posting here -- the last thing I want is to cause anyone pain. I just feel so strongly that she will regret this, b/c XH and I have been there. And it led to the most painful experience any of us (XH, myself, XMM, BW) have ever encountered.

JG,

Welcome to MB and thanks for your post. I hope it helps bitolder understand where we are coming from.

I am sorry you had to learn life's lesson the hard way, but if this helps another from going down the same path, I hope some good can come from such a horrible experience.

Is there anything we can do for you?

L.

Thanks, Orchid, for the warm welcome. And thank you for your offer of help. I'm actually at a good place in my life right now. I lurk here on occasion, mostly out of habit. You all have a wonderful, supportive community here that you should be proud of. I do hope my presence isn't offensive. I plan to continue just reading mainly -- I know there are not a lot here who want to hear from a WW who couldn't make her marriage work. I, too, hope bitolder takes heed of my story. There is never room for a third party in a marriage, whether condoned or secret. It just doesn't work.

Thanks to those of you who have given me thoughtful, helpful replies. That's why I posted here, because the issue was infidelity. Seemed logical to me to ask about infidelity issued on the infidelity board. I may have been ignorant in not knowing that my issue would inflame people, but it was definately not posted with that intention. I don't take any of your bashing and name-calling personally, because it's obvious that it is coming from your own pain. I explored the issue of my husband's fantasies in an effort to communicate and practice the radical honesty that I read about here. Starfish was the one to suggest that I tell him that I was talking to my exes and flirting with his brother. I was elated when he didn't get mad or hurt by it. I was equally elated when he finally opened up to me about why he didn't want to talk to me. It was because he was feeling trapped by his own ideas of how a married man is supposed to behave. I have never been a jealous person. A lot of you are very typical in thinking that our difference in ages is the reason I told him to go ahead and "do" the neighbor. I'm not insecure about my age. Anyone who guesses will say I'm between 26 and 28. I look much younger and I have a younger attitude. He, on the other hand, looks about 28 and acts 40. I'd say we're pretty equally matched. Anyway, I do see the neighbor as an object because she knows he's married and she openly flirts in a very suggestive way. The way he described his fantasies, I did not sense that he was falling for her sparkling personality. Can't see how he would respect her. That's why I don't feel threatened. I can, however, see all of your points about how it could lead to a slippery slope. In any event, the telling of it and my not getting mad took away the excitement for him and vice versa. Both of us are more attracted to each other, now. I'm sorry you all feel that this was an attack on your moral values. I value truth above all of those and I guess based on your definition that makes me a troll.

JG, I second what Orchid said. You are in fact not only welcome here but your unique perspective would be found very insighful by the vast majority.

JG-

Of course you are welcome here. I, for one, am always interested in hearing the viewpoint of a FWS or a WS for that matter. I guess it's morbid curiousity, but it's also helpful, I believe, to gain insight from people who have been there and can understand.

Most A's and WS's follow the same pattern, but I am generally looking at it from a BS's point of view, I would like to hear your point of view, really I would.

Thank You for posting,

-Caren

BitOlder-

I am glad that you feel secure in your marriage, I fear that even though you feel as though you and your H have gotten closer, that you may have opened a Pandora's box, so to speak. I hope, however, this is not the case.

-Caren

Bitolder,

I think that sharing honestly about your attractions and fantasies is great.

It's taking that next step and making them a reality that has me hauling out the red flags and waving them with both arms.

It's good that he is opening up about his perceptions of married life..particularly if they were causing some discord and stifling. They were also causing him to go behind your back with a flirty neighbor..and you to go behind his with several Xs and a few relatives.

The marriage was already off track.

The area in which we differ..is the solution.

I believe that encouraging this 3rd party outlet will take the marriage further off track..and could end it if things go badly.

Discussing your fantasies and perceptions and things you are unhappy with..and then working to correct what can be..is far more likely to result in intimacy. Infidelity is divisive..it is a divisive act and no way around it.

These types of situations aren't par for the course in the multi billion dollar porn industry because they aren't erotic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , but the real life consequences make them inhibitive.


Noodle

No, you know what, I take that back. I do feel that I've been rejected on this site and that makes me sad. I came here very recently, no I RAN here trying very hard to avoid having an affair. I came to this community looking for some answers and help. I opened up my head and my heart and my secrets. I was totally honest about what was going on and how I felt about it. I don't think I deserved the bashing. Now I think that I will probably be blacklisted, at least as far as Starfish and AA and several others are concerened, I'm a troll, tramp, pervert or whatever. My posts will be viewed in that light and disregarded. Don't see much use in posting here again. Sad, because I was very grateful to have a place to go and talk. But thanks for helping me not make the big mistake of having the affair.

Thank you, everyone, for the welcome! I don't want to intrude too much here, but if anyone has any questions for me, I'll be glad to try and answer. My XH and I are the textbook case for how NOT to conduct a marriage. We did everything wrong. So if I can prevent someone else from making the same mistakes by sharing my story, I'm happy to do it. Also please know that I can relate to the BS side of the equation, as my XH had an EA during my pregnancy, a couple years before my own EMR. It's painful all around, no matter what side you're on. Just to give you all a timeline, my d-day was in March 2001, after a one year EMR. My XH and I separated in September 2001, and the divorce was final in summer 2002. We have one daughter, almost 8 years old, who is the light of my life. XH and I both regret our actions which led to the D, but we both learned from the experience, and are now good friends and are coparenting our daughter. XMM and his W are still together. There's been no contact, but as far as I know they are rebuilding successfully. I am happy for them.

Sorry, bitolder, for the threadjack!

Sorry -- double post! Having computer issues.

Bitolder, I think the reason so many are upset by this topic is that, though it concerns infidelity, you appear to be condoning that infidelity. You are setting yourself up to be a BW. After all the pain these posters have been through, being betrayed, I think it's hard to see someone so easily putting themselves in a position to be cheated on. I hope my post to you wasn't hurtful, I just wanted to share my experience. I know what this sort of thing can lead to, and it's very painful and could be lethal to your M. But you know what you can and cannot handle, so you are the only one who can answer if this sort of arrangement would be acceptable.

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: jettiesgirl ]</small>

bitolder,

You can take your bat and ball and go home,that is your prerogative.But if you go back and reread your orginal post,you were basically asking us,members of a Marriage Building website who are dealing with a tremendous amount of pain from Infidelity,if we think it is wrong that you don't care if your H has sex with the next door neighbor just as along as no emotional

O

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Hi. Just thought I'd put in my two cents.

I would say that you are a free thinker and very real with how you think about things. I used to think like you until my marriage changed my mind, and I became very "in love". See my topic under " General Questions, New Years Eve Dissaster" .

This is very dangerous. It may seem to you that you are getting to know your husband better and living in the real world, but when it happens, it can destroy you if you really love your husband.

I am barely hanging on because of what my wife did. You make a good point though, we do not own them. Perhaps if I had your outlook, I would not be so devastated right now. I feel like I want to die. I invested everything in my wife, and she betrayed me while I was in the same room sleeping. My life seems to have no meaning now..

bitolder,
You're right in that you haven't been here very long. Most of your posts are in the EN forum. Your explanation makes sense that since your question was about infidelity, you would post it here. A new person wouldn't realize that nearly everyone on GQII has experienced infidelity. And many aren't at a stage anywhere near recovery.

Your other posts are filled with information. The ENs your H isn't meeting--the lack of communication, the lack of recreational companionship. And my last post on this thread perhaps didn't sound like sympathy, but it was.

You wanted your H to talk, you were glad he did. I wonder if your lovebank is so drained that you really don't care if he pursues being with another woman? Certainly you were being tempted towards inappropriate attention or an A yourself.

It would be an odd day on GQII for anyone to find widespread tolerance for adultery from the posters. We tend to flock to such threads to fling reality and stamp on the idea...and often the poster is trampled as well.

I think if you had posted on EN, where you have had recent threads, you may have had a somewhat gentler experience because the posters there may have read of your other struggles.

GQII also tends to be more serious as a whole than the EN forum. Though you might have done all right in the Idiotville thread (no offense to you, not calling you an idiot, it's just a lighter place than the rest of GQII).

If you are gone, you're gone, but, MB is a good place. However, on GQII, you will always get a riotous response to something like </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to giggle when I think of how she might respond to "my wife gave me permission to do you".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt anyone who has experienced infidelity feels the giggle. Many of the posters can't even watch TV or movies with infidelity without feeling pained, or even sick.

bitolder:

"I don't take any of your bashing and name-calling personally, because it's obvious that it is coming from your own pain."

Well, I've certainly experienced pain over the 3 years I've been here, but it didn't come through when I made *my* troll comment. That was simply an observation.

But if you REALLY came here because you wanted 2 make sure that YOU don't have an A, then by all means I welcome you. You can expect great help for that particular problem here.

best,
-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bitolder:
Not judging each other was the point.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there an end point to being non-judgemental? Would you judge his spoken desire to screw one of the neighbors kids?

Shouldn't you judge things in regards to the potential harm that might be caused due to certain choices?

Here's the immediate harm.... (there is more potential harm, but this is just for starters)

Do you realize you are de-humanizing the neighbor? You are considering her as a sex toy for your marriage. You wish her harm. Yes, you do. Treating another human being as a vagina more than a soul with a spirit... is wrong.

Pep

Fine, enough said, I'll go back to EN where people don't carry so many weapons.

bitolder:

Try not 2 think of any of that as "weapons".

Maybe more like a pair of binoculars and a floodlight.

We can all use a little broader perspective.

-ol' 2long

~LOL~ 2 Long

Weapons of mass illumination!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />