Caren,

Dday was 11/2004, he told me upfront from the very beginning. OW is 19 year old nanny we had before WH hired her in his office (09/2004). Plan A. On 01/30/05 I had "exposure" from OW's BF, poor boy learned more from me than he ever dreamed! That was when A ended, WH didn't know about it & was devistated by the lies and deceit. They still work together, and OW still calls WH because she's "confused" and doesn't know what to do. WH claims he told her to cease and that she needs to go to college and find herself. Who knows what the truth is. The cell phone is in my name, so I can see that the calls are one-sided and very short....so, on that point I believe him.

Mimi,

I don't think he's having fun with her anymore, but definately think he's taking a vacation from marriage. Yes, I definately feel like he's in the fog and keeping me hanging on. I am in no shape to follow through with a Plan B at this point. As far as work is concerned, she sits up front and answers the phones and WH is a manager in the back of the building in his own office. He had turned the A into human res. dept weeks ago, and they both had to sign docs saying it was consentual (so she couldn't claim sex harrass). It's a small office and everyone knows he's married and she's the former nanny. There is no "hanky-panky" at work, although I'm sure most women are able to pick up on the suble clues.

-Christine

I'm not suggesting PLAN B.

However, if he sees her and is talking to her at all on the cellphone, Mommy, the A has not ended.

Im not saying this to hurt you. I'm saying this so that we can begin to develop A PLAN .

If not a PA, it definitely is an EA. However, I'm not sure the PA has ended. Are you afraid to get more info. about what he is doing? You better believe that 19 y.o. has a plan to steal your H. What kind of clothes is she wearing into the office? What do you think that she is saying to him in the cellphone conversations??

I know you hate to face into this. It hurts like H@#$$%. However, this is probably going to take a fignt on your part not sitting back and letting him (and her) control the flow.

Definately no PA, she lives at home and they've had to use hotels, WH has no credit cards in his name, so I can see activity on my cards and our bank account. EA probably, I can't confirm what's being said. WH says it's not mushy, "I love you" stuff, but trying to get her to move on. Don't know that I believe it, but I can not confirm what calls are about. Only know about cell usage, and it's almost non-existant anymore.

-Christine

Mommy:

OK about the PA but I would be absolutely sure about this if I were you. One does not have to use a motel. Things can happen in a car, in the park....

EA is ongoing in the telephone calls. He is not liable to tell you the truth about the nature of their conversations. He does not have to use a cellphone to talk to her if he is able to talk to her in the office. They have all kinds of ways to maintain contact up to and including physical contact in the office.

It is not acceptable for him to be continuing to talk to her on the cellphone. Period. It's the same old WH script of ending it slowly. Don't believe this, Mommy. We all heard the same script from our WSes....

I'm just encouraging you not to be fooled, Mommy.

I know, you're just looking out for me. I have both of them on my IM buddy list at work, so I see when each is either idle of logged off. There is never a coinsidence in time either at lunch or any other time throughout the day. I am very confident that the PA is over. I know the EA continues until there is NC. I am also positive that is where his "confusion" comes in.

-Christine

I've had a migraine for almost 2 days straight now. Good Vday follwed by some nice interactions (this morning when I wished him a good day in my usual instant messanger, he said it was beautiful outside, almost as beautiful as me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and then this afternoon he im-ed me to see if I was ok 'cause he had a wierd feeling). Tonight my migraine was so bad I had to abandon my gym workout, when I came home he left. Like he could care less how I felt. I couldn't let it go, I texted him that I thought contact with OW was more than he admmitted and I have no peace on this issue. Told him OW was the only thing I don't trust about him. Now he's supposed to spend the night (to take care of boys when they come into bed in middle of the night), but he implied I would be on the couch. He also said he would discuss the "other" with me. Great! It's either going to break my heart again or still leave me confused. I want to see his cell, without him clearing all data first.

The only positive note was from our im conversation this afternoon. The other position he was considering has been made almost irresistable and he says he'll make a decision on that by Tuesday, so he could give notice to current job. I pray that's what he'll do. Get away from OW! Granted, they can still talk/text/IM/e-mail, but I can still track most of that. I would feel so much better if they no longer work together.

I'll keep you posted!!!

-Christine

Them not working together would be a great step!

I know, Mimi. Last night he sent that guy an e-mail an arranged a meeting for Friday.....fingers and toes are crossed.

Last night I did sleep on the couch and we did not talk about OW at all....then again I was still fighting migraine. We'll see what today and tonight holds.

-Christine

Hi Mommy:

Keep me informed. I'm routing for you!!!

Mimi,

In case you were wondering, I am still living in the land of limbo. WH did meet with the guy for the other position, it's his if he wants it. His current boss asked him to hold off a few days before making a final decision, but in the mean time another job offer has arisen. Plus, WH started a side-business with BIL and that seems to be starting off quicker than expected. I don't know what he'll decide at this point.

I have gained access to my cell phone account via internet and have been able to track his usage (including texts) on a daily basis. What he's told me is confirmed, the out of work contact is non-existant!! Our home computer continues to have issues (as does his sister's too), so there is no e-mail either. I am quite confident that the NC is in effect, with the exception of their still working in the same office. Hopefully, that too will change!!

He still maintains his love for me was gone long before the affair, which I will never believe but he believes it. March 1st is right a round the corner and he still plans on moving in with a friend (where he gets to sleep on a bed instead of a couch). I've asked multiple times for him to come home where we can set boundaries and rules, he says he'll consider but has not agreed. I will be in plan A until I just can't take it anymore!!

Overall, I feel good. MIL bought me a religous book about being the best person you can be. It has helped me out a lot. I took some of the lines and made affirmations that I have post-it noted to my bathroom mirror so I can read them every day!!

Happiness is a choice I make, not an emotion I feel.

Just keeping you up to speed!!

-Christine

^

Christine:

It's good that you are working on feeling better about yourself.

What are the problems in the marriage that your WH is referring to? Can you describe what he is saying in terms of EMOTIONAL NEEDS?

Mimi,

The needs I wasn't meeting were SF and admiration. The SF I have already worked on, he admitted it made him angry that I made the changes so late and that if it had taken place a year earlier we would be in a different place, the admiration he didn't know he was missing it until OW filled it.

However, I did discover that their texts went through the roof the other weekend and this past weekend the phone calls were in full swing too. I, of course, exposed and told him I was pissed at his lack of respect for my feelings (that was because Sunday he had our 2 youngest boys and they happened to "run into" OW at mall and proceeded to walk around together....OW was their nanny and they love her to death, I'm too big about it and never bash her in their presence).

Also, he spent the entire weekend home with me and our family (from Friday night through Monday morning), we did not have any SF but he did sleep in our bed each night.

Last night he spent the night on his sister's couch, and today I received the following e-mail:

Hey There,

I was in a funky mood last night sorry I didn't call you. I have so
much going on in my head at one time I cant focus on any one thing
clearly and its driving me nuts. Anyway I don't want you to think that
I'm mad at you or anything because I'm not at all. I am sad that things
are the way they are but I cant tell you that I can just go back to the
way that we were. I know I confused things even more with my actions in
regards to my other relationship. Didn't plan that but it did cause me
even more confusion and the fact that I developed feelings for that
person didn't help much either.

Last night I asked her to please just leave me be so that I can get my
head together. She hasn't been like stalking me or anything because I
have been talking to her willingly. I tried at first to just cut her out
but the feelings kept pulling me back in despite all the things that
have gone on in the last month or two. Its hard to just stop feeling for
someone. With you and me our situation was different and it took a long
time for me to end up losing my feelings for you because you are so good
to me. The fact that you didn't fill some needs that I had is just as
much my fault as it is yours probably even more so because I didn't do a
very good job of expressing my needs. Its too late to point fingers and
place blame things are what they are and now I need to figure out what I
want to do.

I know it has already been months but like a fool I clouded my
judgement by getting involved with someone soon after I reveled my
feelings to you and for that I apologize. What I need is peace and time
to sort stuff out. I know I have been telling you this for a while but
there has been something in the way that has prevented me from thinking
the way that I need too. At this point I don't expect you to give me
anymore time or understanding. I plan on staying with Emma for a while
where I will have some peace and privacy. Its OK at Barbs, but I feel
like I'm taking Bryans space plus I never have a minute to myself until
really late and by that time I'm tired. Why everyone seems to think that
all I will do at Emmas is party I don't know. She is also in the process
of trying to heal herself and has stopped partying in order to get her
stuff together. We are both on the go a lot, but I'm good for her and
she is good for me because all she does is listen and not tell me what
she thinks I should do.

You have been so strong with all this I don't understand how you do it?
I know you love me more than anyone has or will ever love me. At this
point I feel guilty because I cant return those feelings the way that
you desire. Not that I don't love you but I don't have the feelings that
I once did and as I have said before I cant promise that they will come
back. You always say that I'm not willing to work on us and at this
point you are right. Not that I don't want too I'm just not ready at
this point. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I still need
time to think about everything in my life. With the other person out of
it and some peace at Emmas I am so hopeful that I will have the time I
need to think about everything. Once I get in there and chill for a few
weeks then maybe that will be when we can start really talking about us
because at this point I have nothing to share that you don't already
know.

I see a point where I feel better about me and where I am going and you
and me taking things one step at a time. By that I mean trying some
dating and hanging out without the kids to see how things feel. If you
are open to that? I know you want things like they were or to move
faster. If I were to just come back and try to act like everything is
normal it wouldn't work at this point. Like I said before I'm not going
to just pretend that everything is OK and try to make it work so that
everyone is happy. I cant do that in then six months a year down the
road do this all over again because I didn't give myself the time I
needed to think and heal. I hope you understand all this and I really
don't expect you to respond with a bunch of reasons why I should just
try coming home and working on it because I don't feel that its the best
thing for me/us right now. I think I really need to be away to see if I
miss all that. I know exactly how you feel and what you want so there is
no need for you to express those things to me in a response. What I am
hoping for is a response saying that you either understand and are
willing to give me the space and peace that I desire or you are not. Its
that simple. I really don't want to cover all this again I just want to
know if you are up to it or not with the understanding that things may
never be the same again. We wont know until we try and me trying to
force myself to feel something that I don't right now is not the answer
for either of us. I know it would make you happy and make you feel
better, but it wouldn't help me at all. Anyway we can discuss more later
if there is really anything further that we need to discuss at this
point? If it helps at all I do miss being at the house because you guys
are my peeps. Always have been always will be.

Love ya

Anyway, I will keep tracking his A as best I can, and I will continue to plan A until I have no more to give!!

Thanks for listening, again!!

-Christine

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that was because Sunday he had our 2 youngest boys and they happened to "run into" OW at mall and proceeded to walk around together....OW was their nanny and they love her to death, I'm too big about it and never bash her in their presence).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mommy, I would put a stop to this. She is not looking out for the best interests of your children. I would not let her around them. She is trying to destroy their lives by robbing them of their father... YUK!!!!


He said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I am
hoping for is a response saying that you either understand and are
willing to give me the space and peace that I desire or you are not </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WS Script, Mommy. It's like it came straight out of my FWH's mouth. He is wanting you to give him permission to stay out to play with her. I think you need to stay vigilant and catch him again and continue to confront. That's part of PLAN A, the exposure.

Do not give him permission. In a nutshell, in your own words: Tell him you love him and tell him specifically why you love him, that you are sorry for not meeting his needs, that you want him to come back home where he belongs, that you want to work on your marriage and that the only way that you can do that is if he is at home and if he ceases all contact with the OW. All of these conditions are important!

I would send him a letter stating the above. He likes letters.

He is a classic cake-eater. He wants you to sit there and wait until he is finished playing. He wants this to continue as long as possible and/or as long as you will allow it to continue. Let him know that this is not acceptable to you. NC with the OW is all that you will accept and you expect him to do that.

I think she went after him Mommy. She put out the bait and she reeled him in. YUK! She is the most despicable kind of OW!!!!

BTW, changing the name of your thread may elicit comments from others. You can go to your initial post here and click on the Edit icon to change it to something like -HELP WITH A CAKE-EATER or ALIEN ABDUCTION BY A NANNY (just joking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks, Mimi.

However, I have said all those things to him, many many times. He sticks to the script and repeats essentially what I posted from his last e-mail. I do keep track of all that I can, and I bust him on the facts. But, I always get the same response...."it's over". If I had a dime for everytime I heard the A was over I could get the boob-job I've been wanting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's why I take almost no stock in the e-mail or anything he says. BTW - he ended up spending the night last night!!!! He was on the couch.

He left work early yesterday and took a few days off from work (he says to make it easier and not see her). We'll see!! Our computer is still broken at home, but I can check the cell records all day long at work and know as soon as they have texted or called.

I'll keep you updated.

-Christine

PS - didn't you just love the part where he said he sees himself healing in a few weeks and we can start dating to see how he feels???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
He repeated that same sentiment in person last night. Think foolish pride plays any kind of roll??

Married men don't date. Not if they want to stay married anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is a classic cake-eater. He wants you to sit there and wait until he is finished playing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this. He wants to have freedom to explore other relationships, while maintaining the safety net of the return option. Is that going to be okay with you?

If not, could it be time for Plan B? Maybe he needs to see what it would REALLY be like to lose your love and support....an opportunity to peek through the keyhole and see what life would be like when the safety net is removed. (????)

Ultimatums can end up biting you on the butt, and Plan B by it's very nature becomes a bit of an ultimatum. You can say to him "either be faithful or else", and he can always opt for "or else". But in the end, isn't he already doing that anyway?

I would say after reading his letter, he is very much aware of the fact that you love him, and that you want very much to repair the relationship.

Isn't that the purpose of Plan A....to let your spouse know that you're ready, willing, and able to reconcile the marriage? When all that is accomplished, what other purpose can Plan A have? Wouldn't continuation of loving support at that point give tacit permission for cake-eating and fence-sitting?

I'm no expert, but I'd say Plan B. What do you have to lose that isn't already lost?

I, myself, would not be willing to put up with the dating. I'd rather take the risk of losing my husband altogether, than to live with a WH waltzing in and out of my life. But that's me. Only you can decide what's right for you.

Mommy:

I agree that you will need to do PLAN B. The question is when.....

What about the PLAN A Letter in response to his BULL CRAP?

Plan A letter?????

PLAN A LETTER???

I made this up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Defined as a letter in response to his letter while you are in PLAN A. It is in reference to these statements I made in my last post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not give him permission. In a nutshell, in your own words: Tell him you love him and tell him specifically why you love him, that you are sorry for not meeting his needs, that you want him to come back home where he belongs, that you want to work on your marriage and that the only way that you can do that is if he is at home and if he ceases all contact with the OW. All of these conditions are important!

I would send him a letter stating the above. He likes letters.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Later......

OOPS!

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>