</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Understood, I don't think following and trying to catch then would be a good idea. I think I couldn't resist putting a few choice knots on OM's head. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand and I think that is a good choice.

Don't forget to be Mr. StandUpGuy. Loving but distant. No grabby/needy stuff. You are honest and willing to do what it takes to recover your marriage. You are NOT a doormat.

Be especially good to your son. He needs it right now.

Gimble

Got home last night DS12 said that WW had taken keys to the rental house I moved out of. I asked her why and she said she was going to move my stuff back over there. Last night I got the keys out of her locked car, so that's not going to happen. Not sure how she will react over that. Gimble please expand "Loving but distant. No grabby/needy stuff" Because I rubbed her feet and laid down beside her last night and again this morning. I told her several times that I loved her. Is this considered "grabby needy stuff" No more talk of divorce since I drove over at lunch time yesterday.

Keep on plan Aing her...you are doing great.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Catching up now. Gimble has provided good advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong>I told her that OM was just saying what she wanted to hear and that once he got what he wanted he would drop her and that he was just going to use her.

I told her that if she cut off communication with OM that she would begin to come back to the real world. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't "tell" her these things. She cannot be educated right now, doesn't WANT to be educated right now, and EVERYTHING you "tell" her is automatically wrong because you are the scourge of the earth, remember?

DO NOT accuse her of being out of the "real world"! You know that, we know that - even your son knows that. But she is in a "better" place and ANYBODY who tries to suggest otherwise JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND!!!

This is the root cause of her "rage" and the ONLY person who understands her is - guess who? - OM!

See the picture?

This is why the most powerful tools in the BS toolbox are patience and calm - after exposure.

This is why you have to be a bit more passive. Time is on your side. Keep doing the standup things and DO NOT be needy and smothering nor "chasing." In fact, be a bit aloof and independent. It'll make her wonder what you're up to.

WAT

Amen, WAT, good points. Foglight, I read through this thread and you are getting excellent advice from the very capable WAT and Gimble. They are exactly right about not leaving your home. That is one of the worst mistakes a BS can make. It only helps faciliate the affair.

Hang in there, you are in great hands!

Thanks all, the picture gets clearer every day. Funny she has asked several times if someone is advising me!!!

Well, you know, perhaps you shouldn't deny it?

But the way NOT to deny it is to get some professional counseling and use this "credibility" to your advantage.

If she knew that you were getting advice from some "lonely hearts" in some "internet chat room" (the actual accusation my WS used to poo poo what I was doing) she would just ridicule you even more. Remember - you're the scourge of the earth and EVERYTHING you do is automatically wrong.

With a pro, at least you have a little more credible defense. This doesn't mean she will instantly NOT criticize you. The pro certainly doesn't understand her sitch, either, because she's special, remember? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

But if you take the action to seek professional counseling it may show to her that you're serious about saving your family. Hold it up as part of your plan. She very likely WILL criticize this too, as too little, too late - on the outside. But the drip, drip, drip of your noble and positive efforts add up.

Please have at least one session with Steve Harley. In parallel, research local counselors. Find one who is pro-marriage and who will not just help you cope with a divorce.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> .....Gimble please expand "Loving but distant. No grabby/needy stuff" Because I rubbed her feet and laid down beside her last night and again this morning. I told her several times that I loved her. Is this considered "grabby needy stuff" No more talk of divorce since I drove over at lunch time yesterday. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many spouses drive the other spouse away over the years, by being overly 'needy'. Have you ever seen that dynamic in someone else's marriage? The husband or wife is always reaching out for some kind of approval from the other spouse. They seem to 'need' all the time.

Imagine a single person out on a date. The Date says "So, tell me about your family". The response is "Well, you see, I used to have a good relationship with my mother, but she won't talk to me much anymore. Hey, would you kinda hug me for a while?"

Bad example, I know, but I bet that is the last date for those two.

For a guy, the point is to be self-assured (confident), open faced, ready to take on the world, ready to defend - with your life- your wife and family, yet being willing to be SOMEWHAT vulnerable and open to constructive criticism.

You have to basically be a stand-alone independently functional unit, but with a family bent and the ability to interact and include others. :-)

That is a lot better than a guy that is so concerned that his wife is going to walk out that he finds himself begging and pleading. That is not, the image you want your wife to have in her mind when she thinks of you.

Does that help define it?

All the best,
Gimble

Hi, FogLight.

WAT said;
===================================
Don't "tell" her these things. She cannot be educated right now, doesn't WANT to be educated right now, and EVERYTHING you "tell" her is automatically wrong because you are the scourge of the earth, remember?
===================================

Let me clarify what I was trying to tell you to do when you speak truth to her.

You PLANT the seed. You can't stay and watch it grow, you can't lecture it. You can't look at its face to see if it understands. You plant the seed of truth and leave it alone. It doesn't matter if she acts like she heard or understood it.

Seeds of truth are short, small, tiny little things. Drop and go.

Listen to WAT. He is right. You can not educate your wayward spouse right now.

All the best,
Gimble

OK yes that is close what I'm trying to do. I really not chasing her at all. Only picking and choosing them as they present themselves. Today WW and DS12 showed up at my work to take me to lunch. This was unexpected but I enjoyed it. She worked here for many years and is freinds with a lot of my coworkers. Go figure. She was very friendly and I even got a kiss when she dropped me off. She must be up to something or did my short pep talk help yesterday?? Probably up to something. Anyway I don't know if I will be able to post until Monday, but if I get a chance I will post from home. Have a good weekend all.
FogLight

So was it off to the races or not?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> .... She was very friendly and I even got a kiss when she dropped me off. She must be up to something or did my short pep talk help yesterday?? Probably up to something. ....
FogLight </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Foglight.

You can't read tea leaves, but I don't think it is a mistake to err on the side of caution. If it were me, I would plan for the worst, and when that is wrong, take the good or decent act in stride, but not let it move me from planning for the worst in the future.

How's that?

Edited to remove my favorite movie quote. I just can't take a chance on someone taking it literally.

Gimble

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

Foglight,

I just want to pop-in and say I think you are doing great and I’m glad you receive such excellent advice, support and encouragement from the members on these board! Please hang in there and continue with your plan. You will get stronger and stronger every day and you are going to make it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I’m curious to hear from you again and to know how things went over the weekend. Please update us when you have time.

Blessings,
Suzet

Good Morning All. Well no race date, I know because we were all together all weekend. Friday night we rented a couple of movies and watched them. Sat moring I made breakfast. WW promised DS a kitten if he would quit crying after her last I want a divorce rant. So I jumped in to do all I could to make it happen. We went several places and looked at kittens. During the day we went to the movies and saw Hitch "pretty good". We also went to a new resturant. WW comented that she liked going to new resturants. I will now make it a point to go somewhere new as often as possible. By the end of the day we had aquired a new kitten. He is grey and white has long hair. DS named him Hemi. Funny thing the kitten has become a focal point as well as a new source of conversation. Sunday I made dinner and WW commented several times that I outdid myself! She at it all, I have rairly ever seen her eat the entire meal! WW will allow me to hug her but, no real hug back. I can rub her feet and back without her telling me to stop. She still sleeps on the couch. I could sleep on the couch with her except it is very uncomfortable. I have layed with her for short periods at a time and she doesn't tell me to move, she just won't sleep in the bed. WW is starting a new diet to loose one dress size in 1 week? Got me guessing again.

Foglight,

Thanks for the update. I'm glad things have been okay for you this weekend... Things sounds good and promising under the circumstances… Keep up with your plan A – you’re doing fine!

Your W’s effort to lose weight… Hmmm, I can understand why you feel concerned about that… On the other side, you know us women, most of us are concerned about our figures; want to be thin; stay thin and want to fit into smaller dress sizes again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just keep that in mind ok?

Blessings,
Suzet

Friends I feel compelled to send an email or letter to OM, see below.


I read your profile the other day.

“OLD FASHION FAMILY VALUES, HIGH MORALS AND PRINCIPLES. HONESTY, INTEGRITY AND BEING ABOVE BOARD ARE #1 IN MY LIFE”

Where does having an emotional affair with a married woman and destroying a family fit into your above words.

You have invaded our family and have all but destroyed it.

I love my wife very much and I will protect this family.

You are not welcome here.

If you really mean the words above, Stop all communication with my wife now and leave us alone!


I just feel a need to make a statement. Any comments.

Foglight, I understand your need to do this and I understand your anger towards OM, but PLEASE don’t send that e-mail! It won’t do any good. It will just bring the OM under the impression that you are desperate and insecure... Not a good thing! The fact is, OM doesn’t respect you, he doesn’t respect your W OR your M and he won’t care what you have to say – the e-mail won't make him listen to you.

Suzet

Yea, kind of thought that's the feedback I would get. Well at least I feel better since I posted it. Thanks Suzet.

Foglight, yes, it always helps to write or type feelings out on paper... Feelings are real and it is therapeutic to write it down. Another suggestion is to write a letter and then burn it. It also helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi FL - I agree with Suz about the e-mail, for the most part.

Can you tell for sure from your wife's messages to him that he knows she's married?

If there's any doubt about this, communicating with the OM is necessary to make sure he knows the truth - she may have been lying to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In that case, a short and to the point communication is needed. But playing his words back to him will do no good and it reveals that you know what he's said. Keep these cards close to your chest.

WAT