No, I wasn't shocked. It's not much different than other US states with the exception that other states may require a full year of separation if minor children are involved.

Also, some states allow for immediate divorce on the grounds of adultery.

DO NOT agree to any divorce activity proposed by your wife. The law may provide for her to get one despite your objections. When/if the time comes, you can contest it. Also, DO NOT enter into any discussion about any terms of divorce that she may bring up.

Your mantra needs to be calm and consistent: "I am not interersted in getting a divorce. I am interested in keeping my family intact and building a new and better marriage with my wife."

WAT

Suzet, Florida law requires some form of neglect, violence, drug use ect. as well as phyc testing to determine sole custody. That is not possible with WW or myself, so typically custody is joint or shared in the state of Floirda.

WAT, I will be honest from now on no matter what!

Others, thanks for your support.

Hi, FogLight.

It sounds like things are going well!

One little reminder.

Remember me talking about 'highlighting' your wife's bad behavior whenever possible? About not facilitating, indirectly?

A good chance to do that would have been the trip to the YMCA when you weren't invited. You could have invited yourself, and further exacerbated her difficulty in communicating with the other man.

The idea is not to drive her toward him, but to help make it obvious, what she is choosing. That has the effect of removing the glitz and fantasy of the illicit behavior.

I am very glad that your son caught her in the 'act' . Ultimately, this is good for him, now that he has proof that you are NOT faking the father routine, and proof of your wife likely 'bribing' his affections, at least somewhat, he is going to feel very betrayed.

If she is like many wayward spouses, she has likely, via design, or inadvertently due to her sense of entitlement toward you, been 'poisoning' your son's view/respect of you for a while. This is also part of his feeling betrayed. All that in addition to the fact that he KNOWS in his gut that adultery is wrong.

Support your son. Do NOT minimize his pain, it is as real as yours.

Hang in there FogLight. You are doing well.

Keep it all at a distance, don't get drawn in. Keep your rules simple. Continue to be a hero to your son and for the marriage.

Gimble

Thanks Gimble, if it were not for all of you I would be in a world of trouble. I so much appreciate your continued guidance and support.
I can't thank you enough. God Bless.

FL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gimble:
<strong>A good chance to do that would have been the trip to the YMCA when you weren't invited. You could have invited yourself, and further exacerbated her difficulty in communicating with the other man.

The idea is not to drive her toward him, but to help make it obvious, what she is choosing. That has the effect of removing the glitz and fantasy of the illicit behavior.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I might differ just a wee bit with Gimble on this point.

Inviting yourself to the Y may have been received by her as you stalking her or manipulating her or controlling her, etc., negating whatever benefit resulted by increasing the difficulty of communicating with OM.

Tough to balance these competing goals.

A good default strategy, IMHO, is to drop back to the fundamental rules. The best way to hasten an affair's ending is to NOT interfere with it. When you try to help it along is when BSs usually make it worse. (The exception to this is exposure.)

This episode is a case in point. You left it alone. You did not invite yourself to join them at the Y. What ended up happening is that YOUR WIFE screwed things up for herself. She got cute and tried to communicate with OM and your son caught her. Entirely her doing. She didn't need your help. She has NO ONE to blame but herself (although she'll find a way to TRY to blame you). In fact, had you been there, this ultimately beneficial episode may not have occurred.

WAT

Wat said:
=======================
I might differ just a wee bit with Gimble on this point.
=======================

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am NOT advocating stalking, I am advocating FogLight inviting himself along to the Y WITH his family. It is his son, and his wife, and he has a right to take an active role in his family activities. He can do this with the absolute best attitude and sense of wanting to be with his family, not with a grabby/needy/fear that she might leave attitude.

If he can't handle the pressure, then I agree with you on him backing off and maintaining a minimum.

WAT, I see this as exposure, just on a finer scale, but I will defer to your experience on this.

My $0.02 worth :-)
Gimble

Update. Some time ago we had 2 cats and 1 died. I made the statement that I would leave if she got another one. A few posts back you will see that I did in fact participate in the aquisition of a new kitten. Well I just go an email from WW:

"remember you said if I brought home another cat - you were leaving................."

I emailed back "that was before I fell in love with him" she then emailed two pictures, one of the kitten and one of a stack of paperwork on her desk. GO FIGURE!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> she then emailed two pictures, one of the kitten and one of a stack of paperwork on her desk. GO FIGURE!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Admittedly, her threats are from a temporarily adolescent mind, but your threat to divorce her over the cat really hurt her feelings.

It would not hurt for you to apologize for hurting her feelings about the cat, and that you should not have used the word divorce, ever.

For future reference, the word 'divorce' hurts a marriage any time it is used as a threat. It is hurting your feelings, right?

All the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong>"remember you said if I brought home another cat - you were leaving................."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This speaks volumes.

Can you hear it?

Man, you are REALLY in control here.

I wish you hadn't replied to this, but no matter.

She is in turmoil. Good. All turmoil of a WS is good.

Keep doing what you're doing and for the most part - DO NOT REACT to her. She's adrift in her own private storm, a ship without a rudder, flying blind.

You are in control, you have a plan, and YOU have your wits about you.

The VERY best thing you can do is sit back and mostly do nothing, other than continuing being a good Dad and NOT LB'ing.

Time is on your side.

What about that Plan A letter I suggested?

WAT

Thanks WAT & Gimble. Can you post a link to some plan A letter examples??

Here's a genericized version of mine. Keep in mind it didn't work to salvage my marriage. But it DID work to assist me in concluding I did everything I reasonably could have, which resulted in me being guilt free.

At the time I sent one like this, we had already separated.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear <Wife>,

We don't get many chances to talk, so I'll write this instead.

As I've said before, I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship. I am painfully aware that I was not meeting your needs as a husband and I apologize for my part in creating an environment that motivated your decision to separate from me.

I have grown tremendously from this experience and I ask you to open your mind and see the changes for yourself. <Son> and I are closer than ever and I acknowledge that I did not always show him the respect he deserved. He has told me he loves me more than ever before. I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized that my emotional outbursts of the past were judgmental, insensitive, and counterproductive. I have a new appreciation for your need to be able to freely express yourself without hesitation. You can feel safe voicing your anger and concerns. Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I am soon starting with a therapist to explore other aspects I can work on. I feel much better about myself as a person and as an individual, I am strong and well along in my recovery. My life goes on.

During this experience my efforts have been on changing me, not on blaming anyone else expecting them to change. I am the only person I can change. I know I have other improvements to make - and you can help me. Similarly, I can be the best person to help you make changes - if you allow me in. In short, I will avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and we can create a new life for the three of us that will meet all of our needs. It won't happen overnight and it'll take a lot of work, but we owe it to <son> to try hard to make it work. Choosing not to try is the blind way out and it leaves the same problems unsolved and creates more difficult ones.

<Son> and I are the two men who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories for the foundation of a family. Similarly, you can make the two of us very, very happy. We want you and need you. I will support any need you have in a non-judgmental way when or if you decide to return home. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you're not sure, I will understand and provide empathy.

Whenever you are ready to talk, I'll be ready to listen. I loved you when I married you and I love you to this day. I am willing to do whatever it takes to put our family back together. I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage so that we meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new relationship in which everything we do makes all three of us happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate.

I am here for you and I love you,

<Me> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Thanks WAT, I will edit to meet my particular crisis and hope it helps. Mother in Law called yesterday, WW had left for the YMCA, I spoke to her for about 30 minutes. She wanted to know how WW was and that she had not talked to her for some time. I asked her if she really wanted the truth and she said yes. I totally exposed the A and all its uglyness. She wanted OM's address so she could fly there and confront him, but I wouldn't give it to her. She said that she had a long conversation with grandmother in law and they were afraid that I would murder WW. I told her with all due respect WW was not worth my spending the rest of my life in prison or the electric chair. She had some idea of the A back in December when we were up there for Christmas. She was very upset over what I told her and I'm sure she will tell the rest of the family because she can't keep it to herself if she tried. Well I made dinner for myself and DS after WW went to the Y. After we ate we went to the Y. WW was comming out when we were going in. She appeared happy to see us, I just gave a brief hello and walked on in, a little touch of independant behavior right. After our workout I stopped and got a few groceries and some flowers for WW. When I gave them to her she had a shocked look on her face. I didn;t linger but went back out to get the rest of the groceries. When I came back in she had already trimmed them and put them in a vase. After that she seemed quite mello. I rubbed her feet, back and legs because she was sore from the workout. The next morning she was also mellow and I rubbed her back again. She drank the coffee I made this morning and said it was good. I know if and when Mother calls I will be the scurge again. Last no email to divorce or to move out! I'm sure that will start up again after WW speaks to MIL.

FL

Good job.

Don't be TOO smothering with the foot rubs, etc. Do not give her undivided attention. Be somewhat aloof and mysterious at times.

Regarding the exposure, you answered the questions honestly to a concerned family member. Anything else would have been assisting in the secrecy. But, yes, you will be an ogre as a result.

Any action on your joint account or credit cards?

If your wife left, could she be self sufficient?

WAT

No action on the joint credit cards I am monitoring them. Yes she could support herself. She does have a problem with credit cards. She can pay for thing but often charges them anyway. This got away from us about 10 years ago but, we paid the all off and vowed not to do it again. She just doesn't realize how fast alot of small charges mount up.

Oh, also I consulted an attorney and he said that in Florida a wife can claim fear of potential violence and have me court ordered out of the house!

Yea, but she has to convince a judge that this "fear" is justified.

All the more reason to write that Plan A letter and date it soon. Does that sound like violence to you?

See where I'm going?

Send a copy to your MIL.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Oh, also I consulted an attorney and he said that in Florida a wife can claim fear of potential violence and have me court ordered out of the house! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if the husband is afraid of "violence?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WAT here is my version of the plan A letter. Please advise.

Dear <Wife>,


As I've said before, I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship. I am painfully aware that I was not meeting your needs as a husband and I apologize for my part in creating an environment that facilitated the crisis we now face.

I have grown tremendously from this experience and I ask you to open your mind and see the changes for yourself. <Son> and I are closer than ever and I realize that I was not the best father that I could be. He has told me he loves me more than ever before. I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized that my emotional outbursts of the past were insensitive, and counterproductive. I am also working on my abilities to show you the affection you deserve and provide the conversation you need. I have a new appreciation for your need to be able to freely express yourself without hesitation. You can feel safe voicing your anger and concerns. Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I feel much better about myself as a person and as an individual.

During this experience my efforts have been on changing me, not on blaming anyone else expecting them to change. I am the only person I can change. I know I have other improvements to make - and you can help me. Similarly, I can be the best person to help you make changes - if you allow me in. In short, I will avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and we can create a new life for the three of us that will meet all of our needs. It won't happen overnight and it'll take a lot of work, but we owe it to <son> to try hard to make it work. Choosing not to try is the blind way out and it leaves the same problems unsolved and creates more difficult ones.

<Son> and I are the two men who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories for the foundation of a family. Similarly, you can make the two of us very, very happy. We want you and need you. I will support any need you have in a non-judgmental way. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you're not sure, I will understand.

I am no longer looking to find secrets or spy on you because it only results in pain for me. Whenever you are ready to talk, I'll be ready to listen. I loved you when I married you and I love you to this day. I am willing to do whatever it takes to put our family back together. I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage so that we meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new relationship in which everything we do makes all three of us happy.

I am here for you and I love you,

<Me>

Gimble, WAT - Question, I think I know your answer but should I give MIL OM's address?

What do you think the likelihood is that she will pursue having you thrown out?

With that possibility in mind, I have two thoughts on your letter.

Perhaps you should change this sentence: "I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized that my emotional outbursts of the past were insensitive, and counterproductive."

She may hold up "emotional outbursts" as admission of violence on your part. I know, a stretch, but we're dealing with an alien abductee, remember?

How 'bout this instead?: "...and have recognized my negative contributions as a husband."

In my original letter, I had references to the affair and to OM and I took them out in the genericized version. Maybe one reference to the affair is in order for you given the possibility she may try to have you thrown out - it would reveal what is REALLY going on. With this in mind, consider this rewrite of a sentence near the end: "I am no longer looking to find secrets or spy on you because it only results in pain for me to see your involvement with another man."

The down side of this change is that it may send her ballistic with denial (this is why I removed references to affair and OM in my stock letter). Whatever you gain with the letter up to this point could be immediately squandered.

The up side is that this is closer to the full reality and it doesn't gloss over this "fact." Give this some thought.

WAT