Well that happened to f*cking quick to do anything, he got here I ran up and got in the shower, he was gone before I got out. He brought the kids each a heart shaped box of candy from the fricken candy shop OW works at....OMG He's an @sshole!!

And what did he leave for me the damn state check, that he said he was going to burn, and he wrote a note on a piece of paper that said, Happy Valentine's Day, I signed it, it's all yours.

So I'm like what a [censored]!!!! So anyway....I went in the bathroom and I'm brushing my teeth, the phone rings.....DD10 said "Mommy Phone!" I said "Who is it?" She said "It's Daddy" I said "I don't want to talk right now" She starts crying, and hands me the phone I said "HELLO?!" He said "Did you get the check?" I said "Yes, did you break up with OW? Did you get your car out of her garage?" He said "No..Caren...." I said "Then I have nothing to say to you..CLICK. Calls back again, and my DD10 answered again and said "Mommy...it's Daddy" she's still crying and said "Please don't hang up on him" I am so pissed I could spit nails by now.....I said "Did you do everything on the letter?" He said "NO!!! CAREN!! I JUST...." I said "Then I have nothing to say to you!!!" CLICK!!!

Damn him, now DD10 is all upset because I keep shutting her Dad down.

I said "Girls, the next time your Dad calls, just let the machine get it, and you can call him back, okay?" DD10 said "*Sigh* Okay......".

What the living hell, he's seriously going to keep trying to contact me without meeting ANY of the stipulations?!??!

I've got those undies of his, I've been saving to give to the OW, I told Mortar about this a long time ago, and he said wait until I was in Plan B to give them to her. So I think I'll wrap them up in a pretty little box like a present and put them on her porch with a note that says:

OW,

WH should really be more careful where he leaves his underwear, I found these on the bedroom floor, must have been from one of those Saturday nights that he had Brooklyn, and stayed all night at my house or maybe from one of those many, many days that he took showers over here when his water was shut off.....But as I'm sure he's told you, we definitely have NOT had sex since we separated.

But seeing as how I am no longer speaking to him or seeing him, I thought maybe you could give these to him.

If you wouldn't mind telling him to stop calling me and coming over, I'd appreciate it.

-Caren

Hell, I don't know what I'm doing I'm a fricken nervous wreck. I want to call him and rip his face off about getting the kids the candy from that b*tches shop....but that would be breaking my NC deal.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!

I don't think I want a protection order, because what am I going to tell the police, he's killing me with niceness.

-Caren

And Caren, some of the things that happen for a while might hurt your kids a little.

Remember to think critically about what is and is not possible in these dramatic situations.

If he's especially relentless in his pursuit, you may want to remember to keep a phone on hand all the time so you can use it if necessary. I'm not suggesting he's going to do you harm, but if he will not leave you alone, you might have to follow through on a threat to call the Finest.

I'm imagining you locked in the bathroom, and him on the other side of the door, trying to talk to you. Don't let it get that far. How can you avoid it? By keeping him OUT of the house.

GC

David,

No, that will not work.

Caren,

Mom is onto the right idea...so listen. I have three kids who were living with me when I went to Plan B. My wife tried all the things your husband is doing. She would refuse to go thru intermediary. She would call endlessly trying to engage me in any kind of conversation. She would show up unannounced at my house. it freaked me out.

Here is how I worked it out. I had Verizon give me a second line. It didnt cost me anymore...it was a virtual line, with a special ring. I left a message for my wife that I had this new line, and gave her the number. I said that she could call that line anytime and the only ones that would answer were the kids (the special ring would alert them that their Mom was calling). If she tried calling the regular line, I told her I would not answer.

I said she could leave email or voicemal messages concerning the kids or the like. If she left a message and I tried to call back to respond and she answerd the phone, I would hang up without talking. I told her I would do this. She was to let me call and go to voicemail. No direct talks!!

If she came by unannounced to see the kids, I could have gotten in an argument about her not doing what I asked. but that would just feed what she wanted. So, what would happen is if she was there in the evening to see the kids before they went to bed, they would let her in...while I went to my room and LOCKED THE DOOR! I turned on the TV and let them have their time. At first, she would come up and knock and insist on me talking to her. I would just turn the TV up louder. I would not say ONE word directly to her. Not one!

On exchanges, she would come outside (like Mom) and I would send them out...and she would do the same for me.

Boundaries!! You have kids together and must interact. But not directly. No direct talks or interactions.

If he comes by...take a salad and a Coke and go to your room...and lock the door. Watch TV until he leaves. If he tries to push it like staying too late, then let it go this time. then send message thru your intermediary that this will nto happen again. Matter of fact, send message to him about him coming by. That it isnt allowed. That he will not visit daughter at your house...that all visitation will be done elsewhere.

You are just hours into this. Settle down. He is freaking out. See how much you mean to him? I am willing to bet that the OW doesnt have a chance here.

Keep your head. you have a plan, he doesnt He i floundering. Actually, he does have a plan...you provided it for him. So, just sit back and enjoy the ride. Actually, one of the reasons I like Plan B besides the hell ends is that the hell begins for the WS. I know, kinda mean huh? But after what they caused us, it does feel a little good to see them to taste some of the pain they have caused.

Anyway...stop this. Dont you let that man blow your Plan B!!! Plan this out. Have a plan for everything. O nthe off chance you get cornered...do not talk. Hand him the PBL again and walk away.

You can do this. Relax.

In His arms.

OOppppps! Double post.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Triple post! Ready to turn this computer into a boat anchor.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Kandi-

So do I call him and tell him the stipulations? That we will not be answering the phone for him, that DD10 can call him after school, and at night, but other than that the machine will get it? [censored]!!!!!!!!!! I'm trying not to screw this up. I DO NOT want to engage him. I want this to freakin work.

I am getting more and more pissed off everytime he insists on talking to me.

So is that what I do, call him and tell him that? GAWD!!!!!!!!

Help....please!!!

-Caren

Caren,

I love you! You are so funny. "Do I call him and tell him I won't talk to him?" heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

First, girl, take several deep breaths and calm down. Remember back on page whatever I TOLD you he was going to try every trick in the book to re-engage you? Remember that? Well, he is doing exactly what I told you would happen. He is testing you and pushing your buttons to see how serious you are.

Second, NO you do not call him to tell him ANYTHING. You give a message, email or note to your intermediary to pass onto him. You behave in the way that you require HIM to behave. If you want him to stop calling you and stop interacting with you, then you need to stop calling him and interacting with him. So, NO!!! Do NOT (I repeat, NOT) call him. Put it through the intermediary:

WH--It is inappropriate of you to just drop by without pre-arranging it. From this point forward, please arrange all drop-in visits with the kids through the intermediary or you will be asked to leave. Furthermore, effective tomorrow all calls will be screened through the answering machine and no one--not even the kids--will be picking up the phone. Finally, I suggest from this point forward that the kids call you after school and at bedtime (for daily contact) and that they have scheduled time with you on Wed. nite and Weekends. Please give your response to my suggestion to the intermediary. If I do not hear from you through the intermediary by XX date, I will assume you agree, and I will proceed with this plan."

See how it's all business-like and not emotional and freaked out and out of control? Remain calm, enforce your boundary, and don't let him rattle you NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES. If it crosses the line into abuse or criminality, get a protective order or restraining order, and chick don't hesitate. It's the only way my exH finally "got" that I was serious about Plan B. I had a TRO, he was standing at the door ringing the bell for half an hour, and I called the police. He had to RUN AWAY before they got there, and they still went to his house and told him to knock it off.

Take a breath, hon. Relax. Take a gentleness break. And then, in a mature, calm manner, communicate only through your intermediary.

(((((Caren)))))


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by suzychapstick:
<strong> Caren, just want to say I'm pulling for ya! You have given me a lot of advice and I have appreciated it so much.
Not just to me directly,but in your responses to others. You are a WONDERFUL person!! Don't you forget that.
I am not to plan B yet but I give you so much credit for being able to walk into his work and give him the letter.
You are so strong and I admire that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"GO PLAN B!!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[qb[I'm with Susy (Hi K**)

This had be the hardst thinf you've ver done, and O face it more and more each day. YOU GO GIRL (to steal a phrase). I'm hear (partly for selfish reaons and paritally for support). I am proud of you and pray all goes well.

Davidiot
Suzy [/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

MM - help me on my thread. I am in a crisis, don;t know where to tirn. Sorry Craren, for jacking your thread, but it is the most obvious, My WW hurt me beyond words today, and unless I do something, I will file the D-papers wthout remorse.

I am in desparate, dire straits, sometimes I seem like I kno what I'm doing, but for the most patt - I am lost. Caren- anyone who can help - there's a lot unsaid on my 'Update' thread...

Thanks.

Caren - I'm pulling for you....

Okay, when I posted the thread about "should I call and explain to him" the stupid MB site gave me a message that the Discussion forum would be down until 9pm CST.....so I'm like Oh great, I'm flying blind.

So I did indeed call him. I said "Listen, this is not working. You have to stop asking the kids to talk to me when you call. He said "I'm not going through your sister" I said "You're going to have to, and when you call from now on, you will be getting the machine." He said "OH! What?! Now I can't even talk to my daughter?" I said "Yes, you can, she can call you back" He said "Oh so now you're going to turn into a royal b*tch, right?" I said "No, I'm not being a *****" He said "Yeah, well I can be a royal [censored]". I said "Well that won't make any difference as I will have no contact with you". He said "CAREN!! If it's something important about DD10, I'm going to call YOU" I said "until you meet {read each of the boundaries} I will not be speaking to you again" He said "Alright, let's see who cracks first" and hung up on me.

I also did do the underwear thing, I wrapped them in a pretty box, and put them in her mailbox. I put a note in there which said: You know, WH should be more careful where he leaves his underwear, I found these on my bedroom floor, but as I'm sure WH has told you we HAVE NOT been having sex since we separated. Have a nice Valentines Day - Caren (They had "stains" on them for craps sake....how did he explain that one?!) When DD10 called to tell him goodnight, she talked to him for a while, and then I heard her say "What? What does that mean?" and then she said "Mommy, Daddy said you're gonna have to do better than that." Then she got off of the phone with him. (So apparently he talked his way out of that...so whatever, if the b*tch wants to be that gullible, then she deserves it).

So now I've told him, he's ONLY getting the answering machine when he calls. I didn't know what else to do. I picked a pretty flakey intermediary as I couldn't get ahold of my sister ALL FLIPPIN NIGHT. How is she supposed to deliver these messages back and forth if she's never home...arrrrrrgh.

I felt like sh*t after I talked to him, because I know I gave him frosting...but I didn't know what else to do. I was getting really mean on the phone each time he called and was insistant on talking to me. (I knew I shouldn't LB)

Do you think the *underwear* thing was a determent to my cause? I didn't expect anything from it, just to plant a little seed of discontent, and I'm sure it's done that...she can't be that stupid, or maybe she is....I don't actually care at this point.

So Mortar, all of this bullsh*t I put up with today was just him in pain???????? It sure felt like a full frontal attack.

But I believe I've fortified my borders(boundaries) and won't break them again. I will not engage him again. He will be coming to pick up DD10 Friday, and I will have my intermediary (If I can ever get ahold of her) tell him to wait in his car and I will send DD10 out, and ask him to give her an exact time that he will be returning with her, and for him to stay in his car then too.

I hope I haven't damaged this beyond reptair...he was fricken LIVID after our conversation, he's acting like he hates me.......I'm just wondering if the underwear thing went over the line, to where he's now not going to have the "good memories".

I guess we'll see what happens. As for who's going to crack 1st. I'm done, it's not going to be me.

I DID NOT want to call him yesterday, but when I explained, I stayed very calm, while he's screaming at me and calling me a b*tch.

I prayed last night that God would give me the strength to get through this, and I prayed for my WH that God would help him through this and bring him out on the other side as my H, not my WH.

I am ready for the incoming 2x4's for calling him, but I didn't know what the hell to do, I was like Arrrrrrrrrgh, so the site goes down NOW?!?!?!

I'm sure that OW has received her copy of the PBL by now....not that it will make any difference to her.

I have to go to my therapy group from 10 am to 3:30 pm, so the majority of my day will be taken up....so I'm pretty good to go. I honestly don't sit around and think about him, yesterday I did, but he was barraging me.

I am now going to telephone silence. He will not get a rise out of me again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

-Caren

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

CJ-

Here's the letter I composed to WH for my sister to give to him. (It's basically your letter).
**********************************************
WH-

It is inappropriate for you to just drop in to see DD10 withouth pre-arranging it. From this point forward, please arrange all drop in visits through *sister* or you will be asked to leave.

Furthermore, effective today, all calls will be screened through my answering machine and no one--not even the kids--will be picking up the phone.
I also suggest that from this point forward DD10 can call you after school and before bedtime.

Finally, DD10 can have a scheduled visitation with you on Thursday evenings and Saturday evenings. You may pick her up at 6-6:30 on Thursdays and have her home by 9 pm, and on Saturdays you may pick her up at 6-6:30. I will leave it up to DD10 whether she wishes to spend the night with you on Saturdays, if so, she needs to be dropped off on your way to work or by 11:45 a.m., if she chooses not to stay, then she needs to be home by 10 pm. I will send her out to the car when you pick her up.

Please give your repsonse to *sister*. If I do not hear from you through *sister* by tommorrow, 2/16/04 , I will assume you agree and I will proceed with this plan.

-Caren

******************************************

I'm plugging up holes in this sinking ship like a crazy woman....sheesh!!!!!

Do you guys promise this is run of the mill stuff for the WS in Plan B???? He really sounds like he hates me....maybe he does. It feels so different when it's you, ya know?? I *feel* for TravellinMan....it's not as hard when you're giving someone else advice.

I know this is the only way. I can't go on in life letting him think that it's okay to me that he has an OW. And I know that I can make it with or without him......I would prefer with, but it's not necessary.

This feels like divorce to me too...I know it's supposed to feel that way for him, but that's what I feel like, like I'm divorced.

I guess in a way I am getting divorced today, I am divorcing the chaos.

-Caren

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Whoa Caren! Yikes!!

Just make sure you don't sell the rights to your new TV show to the first sleazy producer that comes along. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When the boards went down yesterday, I thought... oh man, what timing...

ANYway... I just wanted to give you a vote of confidence this morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You might want to put on your helmet for a couple stray 2x4's because of that phone call last night, but you're doing the best you can, and it's impossible to account for everything the crazed idiot, er... your WH... is going to try.

Stay strong, stay cool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
tqt

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: tqt ]</small>

You hang in there Caren! Don't talk to him!

I couldn't believe the timing on the board being down either. VDay overload.

hi Caren,
i am basically a lurker, but i did want to put in my $.50 worth before it was too late. first of all i really really admire your strength. its not easy doing what you are doing and its really admirable. just wondering whether you have read "love must be tough" by james dobson, its an old farmiliar book which basically advocates for what you are doing. but what it brings out is what the one of the previous posters was saying, total blackout is important....keep him wondering...have an air of mystery....let him wonder....that will not happen if you call him...or if he knows you are in the house...it gives the illusion of "easy reach"....i have been there and i know that mystery works....so forget the note and underwear sending and the phone calls and have total blackout....thank you for reading my 2 by 4.....please know that i am praying for you (FOR REAL)..i dont know who you are but i really care about you...so keep on venting coz it helps.(not necessarily here but to you best friend, sister, mum etc)..and trust me this will help so many people out there.AND IT WILL END. this is just a phase...thank you

Caren, I think from today on, should be total darkness....the first days are gone...those were rough, but if you go completely dark, then it will get better...

I'll tell you something that happened last night here...My WH showed up...unannounced! I was in bed...kids were asleep! He rang the doorbell...I answered the door, only cracked it open...no lights on so he couldn't see me nor me him...

He proceeded to tell me he wanted to come home and he wanted his family back...I KNEW he was with her last night...now he is supposed to be working on his conditions, per our EI, supposed to be drafting up that NC letter, etc...He lied to me over and over again...I engaged with him..I should not have...I KNEW better...It was ugly...I proceeded to lash out some pretty ugly stuff...He said he wanted to wish me Happy V day...ye, right...told him to go be with his girlfriend...he said HE feels sorry for her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> hmmmm, what about YOUR wife, doens't feel sorry for me...

anyway, Caren, the point being...it did not hel pme last night...I am very angry, bitter, you name it...just when my love for him was coming back...i lost it again...

My H has also tried every trick in the book...this time around he wont call...actually he called 5 times yesterday! didn't answer one time! He left a message though..."I'm going back to OG, I'm here on S******, I can still turn around to come home...I drove all the way here to see you...I'm not turning back unless you tell me to come back"

Ok, first of all I did not ask him to come here...second, it is not that simple...he wants the work to be done FOR HIM!

Caren, go dark...he will start waking up..I can feel it for you...your H is giong into a frenzy, and it really is a good thing when they throw fits like this...just sit back and watch!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> what did you do??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This page is so long...that i dont have the time to read all so i must assume that you must have fallen off the wagon... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Remember to get back on and ride it again...good luck...hang tight and put on that seat belt tight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Caren,
I wasn't able to sign on yesterday so I'm just reading your post this morning....
so what happened yesterday when your WH came by????

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh The onslaught continues....he has just called me 4 times, and hung up on the machine....he just keeps calling OVER AND OVER AND OVER and not leaving a message....I swear he's brain damaged.

So I'm sitting here listening to the phone ring, over and over and over and over....Oh wow, call number 5.

Did he not just tell me yesterday "We'll see who cracks first?" Hmmmmmmmmm I think it may be him since he's f*cking calling the hell out of me.

Oh now he's just whistling into the answering machine...he's such a dumb [censored].

Oh boy now he's calling again. LMAO I'm sorry I have to laugh, this is just too fricken funny....he seriously thinks if he calls over and over I'll pick up.....yeah, negative.

Let's count the calls, we're on #7 now.

So I guess he does care about me.....LMAO!!!!!!!!!

Now we're on call number 8.....call number 9.....I've now turned off the ringer.

He just keeps hanging up on the machine....he is INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Call #10........wow, this is so much fun.

LMAO He is REFUSING TO LEAVE A MESSAGE.

What is he trying to accomplish here?? I am about to go lock my door....I think his next move is going to be coming over here.

Maybe he just wants to hear my voice, so he's calling over and over to listen to my voice on the machine.

Call # 11....Call #12.......Call # LUCKY 13 (not so lucky for him).

Wow, I wonder how his OW would feel knowing he's relentlessly calling me....seriously? All these times? LMAO he's got a call on his other line, I can hear it beeping in on the machine.

Not as if I have to turn the machine down since he won't leave a message.

*Sigh* He's literally losing his mind.

-Caren

Wow.....he's trying to break you plan B!!!! Stay strong! My WH told my son something the other night that pi$$ed me off and now I'm wondering if he did it on purpose so that I would call and ask him about it. I didn't!!! I'm not talking to that idiot anymore. He's living with the OW and acting as if he's a better parent. YEAH RIGHT>....I'm so over this crap Caren!
Hang in there girl.....you can do it!!!

Stop hanging around the phone...DONT COUNT...you will feel upset when he stops and wondering why he no longer calls...

Ignore the calls...go and do something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />