I don't really know what I'm trying to say here.....just that I'm very depressed today. I need someone to talk to, and have no one around.

Had a wonderful evening planned with WH last night.

I bought tickets to a concert he wanted to see. I went to town, got my nails done, and went shopping.

I wanted it to be nice, considering our last outing and ensuing very heated argument, which ended with WH shoving me down very hard (physically) twice.

WH was tired, because he chose to go work for a friend yesterday. He griped about everything after we started out, from the sandwich he got to eat, to the traffic, to.....well, he just kept saying "Nothing ever goes right for me".

Went to the concert, and WH pounded down a double whiskey. He said he hoped that would make him feel better.

Apparantley, it did. During the concert, WH started saying things about the female performer on the stage (a tall, pretty girl with a black dress - obviously no underwear - and stiletto heels).

He whispered to me (now this is gross) "I would like to see her doing the splits on your face!"

I just laughed and said she is a very pretty girl.

WH said "Could you do that for me?"

During the intermission, he pounded down another double whiskey.

Anyway....on the way home, he seemed very depressed. He said "I feel bad because I'm just a piece of $hit."

He has often said he can't be himself with me. Is that because he is a pervert? OW wouldn't care if he said those kinds of things to her, or so he tells me.

He's always telling me he's a flirt, but he can't act that way with me, because of the way I am.

Then, he was really depressed. I asked him if he thought that alcohol had any effect on his depression. He didn't know.

I asked him what SH told me to ask him.....That I appreciated the fact that he was going to IC. But how long did he think it would take before he "got his head together" so we could start working on our M.

He gave the answer I thought he would give "I don't know". I told him I was feeling left out in the dark with our M, and that I needed to know some kind of ballpark date on that, so that I could have some kind of hope that things were going to start changing for the better between us.

Of course, he got angry and said "I don't know....how about August 5, 2005?"

We talked more.....he told me that I hadn't told him I thought he was good looking in a LONG, LONG time. (Apparantly this is one of his needs).

He told me he doesn't want to talk about things....it just ends up like the last fight we had.

I asked him in what context did he think our discussion of tonight was ANYTHING like 2 weeks ago?

He told me several times that I would probably be happier if he wasn't there. That I would be happier if I would find someone else....that he should leave.

I asked him why he kept saying that to me.

Long and short of it, he's just depressed when he's with me. He can't say anything to me because of the way I am, etc. etc. etc.......verbal puke!

This morning, he's off to a meeting with a volunteer group. He was outside laughing and talking with his friends. Didn't sound too depressed to me.

I'm depressed because all I'm getting here is the blame, no matter what I say or do. WH can't see that his A has caused him the guilt he's feeling now, he'd rather justify it instead.

Recovery? NOT!!!!

This is going down hill, and going down fast.

My brain feels like cotton, I can't think, and all I want to do is lay on the couch and cry.

I'm sorry about this....it's long, and probably doesn't make much sense.

I thought getting it out of my system would help, but it doesn't.

K

I'm sorry K,

Is there anything I can say to help?

Noodle

Hi Noodle....

I don't know if there is anything that anyone can say.....

I need some help figuring out how to end this mess without screwing everything up royally.

Every time I try to think about it, or do anything....well, I'm caught in a viscious cycle (or circle...your choice).

I think my WH may have an alcohol problem (now doubt helped by OW - she apparently was married to an alcoholic for 20 years (enabler - co-dependant?). I also think he's a pervert. He's totally not what I have always believed him to be.

All my strength is gone today.

I don't know....I think your WH says these things, like the comment about the girl doing the splits and that sort of thing to shock you....That's a rude [censored] thing to say. He's lucky you still sat there with him. Maybe you could think of an equally gross answer....that oughta knock him for a loop. Say "You know honey, you've brought that up twice now, and I've been thinking that I could probably do that, but before I do, I like to see you have sex with (Pick a nice looking guy) that man over there.....that would be so hot." He'll probably be TOTALLY repulsed by that thought.....and if he comments "That's disgusting" say "Oh, really? Hmmmm I guess I didn't consider your feelings when I said that."

I completely understand about the talking and laughing with other people. It used to really upset me when we still lived together that he could be so mean to me, but then at work he was all "Can I help you with something hon?" Grrrrrrrr. It hurt my feelings, I said "How can you be such an [censored] to me, and then turn around and be all sappy sweet to your customers?" He said "It's my JOB Caren!"

Is the "A" over?? Is there NC?! He's really being inconsiderate, I think he realizes that he's being a complete [censored] to you and that's when he starts getting depressed.

I'm sorry that I don't have any answers, but what if instead of reacting to his verbal diarrhea, you just act like you're only vaguely interested in what he's saying....like "That's nice dear....." or something that shows you're not even paying attention.....when he gets upset about it, say "Well when you start treating me like you value me, I'll listen to what you're saying."

-Caren

k, I'm sorry. I can relate to your pain. I've been in NC for over 2 years, but I remember going through similar stuff with my WH before NC. He was always depressed, too.

After WH moved in with MOW he used to come back daily during the week (when MOW thought he was going to work - obviously not much honesty in their relationship either) to see me. He was always high (alcohol and/or drugs?) and would say the same kinds of things to me - asking if he could watch me have sex with another man was his favorite. I would tell him that I could handle his fantasies as fantasies, but when pressed, made it clear that I wasn't interested.

A male friend of ours found a swinger magazine on his back seat and WH responded in such a way as to imply he'd participated with MOW and it was fun. Friend was shocked and disgusted. WH, too, wanted more admiration from me - he told same male friend that MOW "shines for me."

We went out to a concert one time (don't know what excuse he gave MOW as he was living with her) and it started out nice, but after he'd had too much to drink he got ugly and was shouting at me in a restaurant - very embarassing.

It took me a long, long time to accept that he wasn't going to turn back into the man I remembered him being. He's still with MOW and I've heard rumors lately that she's pregnant.

Venting only goes so far to relieve pain. It's important to do something positive instead - go out with friends, exercise, etc. I was miserable, too, for such a long time (note my timeline) but once I got into NC and "plan D" I began to feel better. I still regret the loss of my M, but I had to accept that I couldn't make him change, I could only change myself.

It's not easy. We're the same ages as you and your H, but we weren't together as many years. Make an effort to do something nice for yourself every day - get a massage, take a hot bath, go for a walk, read something inspirational, go out with friends, whatever uplifts you and makes you happy. You're an important, special, wonderful person no matter what choices your H makes.

K,

I know what you mean about the "slummy" attitude.

When H was a WH he frequented parties of the sort that women get into fist fights on the lawn.

The sort that other couples would have sex in front of him on the floor in public.

Probably some orgy scenarios as well.

As a matter of fact, his ONS was at just such a party.

That comment seems entirely in line with this lifestyle..and it sounds that he has come to identify "himself" with it. Therefore..he can't be "himself" with you and still be comfortable [read encouraged].

My H had that problem as well..and my only response was that this was not something I could fix for him. That lifestyle is wrong , I can't make it right and I won't participate.

If that is who he WANTS to be, then there is nothing you can do to change his mind.

K, I really think a strong plan B would benefit you more than any other idea.

Let him go drink from that glass until he can't bear another sip. When he is sick and weary and jaded and half dead in his soul..he may turn around..or he may finish the job. It's out of your control. Until he rejects it..he will pine for it. I wish there was some other way..but from where I am standing it looks like all other doors are shut to you, no amount of jiggling has helped. I'd go to plan B..and I would make him earn his way in next time..you know that has been your weak area..your achilles heel.

What do you think?

Noodle

Thanks Caren....

WH's whole point is that he shouldn't have to consider my feelings about the things he does. He should just be able to "be himself" and I shouldn't care.

Sometimes I wonder if he is bi-polar.

I don't know if the A is still going on.....SH says it's very likely that it is, but that he has taken it farther underground.

I asked the questions SH told me to ask WH, then he said I should think about the answer WH gave me (SH said if it's longer than 2 months for WH to get his head together so we can start working on our M)for a couple of days, then SH strongly suggests that I tell WH that we should separate until he can get himself figured out.

Tough choices.

Today, I feel like telling him that it's over. To leave.....for good.

Noodle....

We were posting at the same time.

I think your take is right.

WH used to be a MORAL, deeply religious man. We attended church for many of our married years.

This is one reason why I think he is so screwed up - he has departed from his upbringing, his beliefs, and his standards.

I think you are right....and the things you told your WH about this being wrong, and you will not participate is excellent.

I'm thinking what SH told me to do and your suggestion for Plan B (and if I do it, it's gonna be done right this time) are what is called for.

Thanks Noodle

K,

I think his fight is with God..so I vote get out of the way..God can handle himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Noodle

Hello LetStry....

Your story is also very sad. Glad you are doing better now.

It just seems that most WS's cannot seem to fathom that their A was a totally self-absorbed act.

My WH doesn't want to hear anything from my side of the story.

He's always telling me that he can't talk to me about things because I will use it for "payback" and always throw it up to him.

I have NEVER, EVER DONE THAT!!!!

Everything here is so up and down, back and forth, I feel schitzo!!!!

Thanks for your post.

K

Noodle....

Ditto......but how do I get out of the way?

My brain is fried.....I can't think (or I'm thinking TOO MUCH!)

K

k72172,

He is using alcohol to medicate himself...more than likely to medicate his emotions.

That comment...WOW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...you sure handled it better than I ever could have. You laughed and made a comment that was related to his.

He asked you if you would do that FOR him...what did you say to that? You do not say what you said in return.

He says he cannot be himself when he is with you...what is it he wants to be? What defines him? How does he define himself?

I do not know if he is a pervert, or simply wanting to shock you with his crude comments. I do not see how that type of comment could have been anything other than disrespectful and crass, to say the least.

Fantasies are fine and dandy, I just don't see how that type of comment could be seen as his telling you his fantasy. I *feel* that it was meant to shock, degrade, and disrespect you.

On another note, am I totally out of touch with reality? What kind of concert is it that the people singing on stage are not are wearing underwear??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

Plan B is ALL about getting out of the way.

Remember how well you felt..even after a few days? Maybe a little over self assured..but well.

I'd like to see you feeling that way again.

Noodle

As I read your description of what happened at the concert I thought that it sure sounds like he is still in the A. The guilt is making him drink more than he 'normally' would. Saying offensive or inappropriate things so he can further justify his belief that you are wrong for him and that he doesn't think he can go back to being the type of man he was pre-A. I think that what SH told you that he may have taken the A further underground may be right on. Sounds like fogged A behavior to me.

His behavior just doesn't sound like the behavior of a man that is done with his A and wants to save his marriage.

I also think that you may be right that he may be bi-polar manic depressive. Or he's so addicted to the A and that lifestyle that he can't extricate himself and he is disappointed in himself as well he should be so he drinks more to quiet his conscience.

Anyway, if alcohol is playing a big role right now that will have to be dealt with before you can really start recovery.

You don't have to be anything you don't want to be or try to compete with his nasty OW.

So, I would agree that you may need to go to plan B and try to move on to find some peace. I really believe that there can be a happy life for you even if you D. You've been riding this rollercoaster a while now. Your H sounds very unstable. Let him let OW meet all his needs.

Listen to SH.

Sad for you that you are still not in a real recovery...at least that is how it sounds.

K,
I don't know anything about your situation, and I can't read everything right now, but after reading your first post in this thread...

I'm sorry if I'm rehashing things already discussed, but, your H sounds seriously depressed to me. Not necessarily in a clinical sense, but... sounds like some BIG-time self-esteem/self-worth/etc. stuff going on. He doesn't feel WORTHY of you. Not even close.

And I don't think there's a sexual/perversion thing going on here, either.

K,

Why do you have a convo w/him while he is under the influence. I don't just mean stoned drunk but even a little enibriated (sp???)?

The answers you got were not meant to explain but meant to frustrate and hurt you. The were uttered from a mouth of a drunk WS.

If you want the truth, you should wait until he is clearly sober. Then even if it hurt, you could heal better since you know he knows what he is saying.

JMHO,
L.

K, You said <<WH's whole point is that he shouldn't have to consider my feelings about the things he does. He should just be able to "be himself" and I shouldn't care.

Sometimes I wonder if he is bi-polar.>> Sounds so much like my WH. He also went to church with me in the past and even at one time talked about going to seminary! In the midst of the chaos after D'day, my head was spinning, too. It was impossible to reconcile the H I thought I knew and the WH he'd become.

I finally had to take care of myself and create really rigid boundaries (with RO) to protect myself. I agree with others that Plan B is a good idea rather than expose yourself to anymore of this kind of behavior.

Orchid is right. It took me too long to realize the truth of the joke I heard in AA that asks: How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? The answer: When his lips are moving. I think the same applies to a non-alcoholic under the influence - lies, manipulations, morose meanderings, whatever, it's a waste of time to listen and respond, or to let it influence your feelings or behavior.

Hi K,

After reading here all these past months, I can't think of anything more harmful or destructive to a womans soul than living with a non-repentent WS.

This man is in spiritual trouble, and you are depressed because he is keeping you from living in the light, so to speak. Dragging you down.

A woman needs to be with a man who lifts her up, respects her and treats her like the gift she is. And a man needs to treat his wife this way, or he will not be able to find happiness within himself.

He's lost right now K. And you need to find your own way out of this darkness.

I am alone K, and not that much younger than you but I am very happy mostly. And if I am ever married it will be with a man who treats me and himself good. I can never go back to the kind of horror you are in.

I so agree with Noodle, and Letstry. Go to Plan B, and find happiness again.

At his age it won't take too long for him to straighten out on his own, without you for a scapegoat. And if he doesn't then you will be happy and whole, without him.

I am sorry K. Your post makes me so sad. I hate to see a woman in this kind of situation.

Protect your heart so it can shine again, like it was meant to.

Orchid always says that when your head and heart are in sync, you will know what to do and have peace. This might be why you are depressed. You know what you need to do, but you are not doing it.

Sorry to all who have posted.....I haven't been able to thank you for your replies.

Today, WH is fine. Of course, he's not drinking....but then he doesn't drink every day. He told me once that he had done a lot of drinking after he moved out. He said he spent every evening with OW. Do the two go together?

I've carefully read all of your replies, and I agree with them all.

All this is going to have to be carefully planned. I don't want WH to leave on a horrible note (argument, drinking, etc).

He's been doing things that keep me suspicious....like calling me one day to tell me he erased a number off of his work phone that contained his password. Stupid excuse to make me think he is TRYING to be honest with me.

That was an isolated event.

Other than that, he has done nothing, I repeat, nothing, to help build my trust or make me feel and know that he is no longer in contact with OW.

But, in many ways, I feel I'm so close to the situation, that I can't see a lot of things.

Thanks for your replies. This board is a Godsend to me.

K

It is now Tuesday....the day AFTER V-Day.

WH got a little teddy bear thing holding a vase of 3 roses for me and DD. At Safeway....probably spent $19.95 apiece for those.

When he left yesterday morning, he had 2 $100 bills in his wallet, and about 48 dollars in his pocket.

He went to Lowes, and bought $30 worth of electrical parts.

He spent $28.00 for our dinner last night.

I didn't feel like eating - I was just at the ear doctor, and now I'm told I have to have a procedure done on my perforated ear drum - some time in April.

Anyway, that all totals $98.00.........

He didn't buy gas until this morning after he left.....

He had only $72 left in his wallet, and nothing left in his pocket......so this is all to say, that I'm wondering what WH got OW for V-Day??????

This all sounds so silly and childish....going thru pockets, and wallets.

It's just more evidence for me that Plan B is not far down the road.

Sad, horrible mess of my own making (looking back at my Plan B's)...........

K