Maybe he will be mad, maybe he won't. Remember he said he 'didn't know' he needed to meet your needs. How he could not have known is a mystery but that's what he said. Taken at face value, he may not be soo mad.

Even if he was raging, you can pull back. Fretting won't help. You choose to go to the party knowing he would not be pleased. That was your choice, he needs to make his. You both have to realize that you also need to deal with the consquences.

I am not for or against your going under the circumstances. Just wanted to give you both sides before one of you blows up.

take care,
L.

Thanks- yeah he was not pleased with me- I woke up to him going through my cell phone and deleting everyone he does not think I should be talking too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and then read all my short mail (text) and I have nothing to hide so whatever.. Then got upset because I went to a work function that I was not paid to attend...and I got dressed up... I was up until 4:30 in the morning... I told him that I had done nothing wrong so therefor did not feel he had a right to be upset. If he would be willing to miss his bowling banquet because he "might have a girlfriend" and because he had to pay to attend then I would understand. I do not really think he has a GF at bowling, or do I expect him not to go. I was just making a point.

WE shall see how today goes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I woke up to him going through my cell phone and deleting everyone he does not think I should be talking too and then read all my short mail (text) and I have nothing to hide so whatever.. Then got upset because I went to a work function that I was not paid to attend...and I got dressed up </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, this behavior of his is controlling and manipulative.

However.........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him that I had done nothing wrong so therefor did not feel he had a right to be upset. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ - You can't tell him how he should or should not feel. You can't tell him what he does or does not have a right to feel. He has every right to feel however he wants to. They are his feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he would be willing to miss his bowling banquet because he "might have a girlfriend" and because he had to pay to attend then I would understand. I do not really think he has a GF at bowling, or do I expect him not to go. I was just making a point.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cannot justify your going based on how you would have felt if the situation would have been reversed. You must own your behavior, and realize that you knew there would be consequences for your going (whether they be deserved or not). YOU made the choice to go in spite of the consequences.

Now here's the deal. I think you are trying (maybe even subconsciously) to show him what it feels like to have your feelings disregarded. Because you clearly disregarded his feelings, even after many here said you probably should not go - not because it was wrong, but because it was counterproductive to your M.

But you went anyway. After all, what better way to show him how crappy it feels to have your feelings shunned than to do it right back.....right? Now he will know how it feels.....right?

The thing is, it doesn't work that way. You just gave him an excuse to treat you badly. Much like my A gave my H an excuse to worsen his emotional and verbal abuse. To them, it's punishment, and another excuse, to continue the behavior.

Don't take this post as a criticism. I have this odd feeling that you will either post an "You are right, and I'm sorry I disappointed" or an "I can't seem to do anything right - I am too weak, stupid, etc" post.

KMEJ, try to look at this as education.

1) You need to treat him how you want him to treat you.

2) And if he doesn't treat you the same way, you need to set a boundary and start working on a plan to be 'apart' from him.

IMVHO, you have already done the first step. He hasn't treated you the way you should be treated. But that does not justify your behavior. You are afraid of the second step, so you are stalling, and filling your needs another way (going to the party). The problem is that by doing that before you start being 'apart,' is giving him the justification to treat you poorly. Now that is not correct of him, but you just played into his plan none-the-less.

KMEJ - focus on yourself. Focus on ways to NOT play into his plan. Be the spouse you would like him to be. And if he is NOT the spouse you would like him to be, and he doesn't show action toward becoming that person.......

THEN STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND LEAVE

We are all in your corner. But only you can help yourself, KMEJ.....and there is no "how to" book for it. You've got to have confidence in yourself. I believe you can....but it's your own self confidence that matters. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions LIT- I do not regret my decision at all to go to the party. I could have handled it better- but I am still glad that I went. Yes H was upset with me- more so because of how dressed up I got (Black vlevet flare pants- hot pink funky shirt and hot pink highheeled shoes- glitter- straightened hair) As he said he feels I am out looking for a BF- which I am not. Today H has shown no sign of continued hurt. we talked a lot last night- probably not the best conversation- but we talked, shared our feelings- instead of sweeping it under the rug and pretending there is not a problem. Which is typically what we do. I stood up for myself- and did not immediately apologize for going against him. I think that may have helped...

I hope it works out the way you want it to....

Good luck.

KMEJ

I say again - an PLEASE try to understand the facts of this -

EVERY system is perfectly aligned to achieve the results it gets.

Your relationship is perfecly aligned for you to receive abuse and manipulation and for your WH to live out his domination fantasties.

If you are happy with that, change nothing and stop moaning.

If you are NOT happy with that get ANGRY and channel that anger through the tools MB offer you.

use them to change the only part of the system you control : You.

All blessings.

Your H's thought process is absolutely unbelievable.

He keeps #'s and pics of OW and other women on his phone and you can do nothing about it...but...he can delete #'s and messages of and from people he doesn't know on your phone?

He can go and do whatever he wants....when he wants....but you have to live with his little temper tantrums when you do something you want to do.

He's constantly turning everything around and blaming everything on you....which is classic.

He's verbally abusive when he is called on anything.

He isn't willing to go to MC.

He wants you to wait for 6 more months of what you've been getting for the last 12 months...in which he is supposedly going to work on what he needs to work on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He wants to you quit a job that you enjoy. One that he thinks makes you act like a teenager.

He has told you that he should have stayed with the OW.


WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Your H is a real winner.

I'm sorry. I don't think that your H is into changing.

There is a great deal of talk on here about your H. That's all well and good, but absolutley NOTHING can be done to change your H.

My question to you is, what are YOU doing to change?

What parts of MB have you implemented?

Have you read much from the site? Have you studied the four rules to guide marital recovery?

Last letter on this page

Have you been using POJA?

What are YOU doing to protect this M?

KMEJ,

Sounds like you're getting angry. Anger is a really good motivator if you can channel it. Have you done any thinking on a plan? What would you like the future to look like? When you know what you want it to look like, lets come up with a plan to get there.

Hang in there!

Miker

Post deleted by KMEJ

KMEJ -
I agree with L.I.T. Your best hope to have your H follow the POJA is for you to follow it, and you did not follow it by going to the POJA. Now he has justification to do what he pleases.

Your H may be hurt by your disregard and has only learned to respond to disregard by being even more extreme in his disregard towards you.

Plan B is a way to make it clear that disregard doesn't work in M. Instead, by going to the party, you are provoking conflict.

The funny thing is, I do the same thing. Can you imagine the incredible hurt of following the POJA and not having a response that is to follow it as well? Can you imagine giving up your parties and seeing your H go off and do what you have told him is negative for you?

It's the only way to find out if your H is willing to be considerate of you -- by first being considerate yourself -- but it's a big step. By not taking that step, you can always argue about fairness. By taking that step, the discussion becomes one in which you show extreme courtesy and look to him to do the same. Because it doesn't matter why he doesn't want you to go to the party or how much you want to go to the party. All that matters is he doesn't.

And so, my posting on MB has become a matter of discussion between us. I thought I needed the support here. Really, I needed a way to justify his inconsiderate treatment of me by being inconsiderate as well. A never ending spiral of argument and disrespect until someone stops it.

You can stop it. So can I. But there is comfort in not knowing how he will respond if you do, in fact, follow the POJA and show regard for how he feels, no matter why he feels that way.

Cherished

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

KMEJ,

I posted this for you once before....it is very similar to your situation b/c I finally went out with one of my friends (oddly enough, with my H's permission) - did not drink - did not talk to men - did not to anything wrong - and still I was punished for it. Even in spite of the fact that he could go out and do whatever he wanted.

Going out while uncertain R

The trick is that you must behave exactly as you want him to behave. And only then will you know that you have nothing to feel badly about. That will give you power to assert your true boundaries.

I only learned that after I went out. Basically, by going out (even if I did nothing wrong) I gave him an excuse to get upset with me. And so I wasn't giving him a fair chance to treat me the way I wanted to be treated.

BUT after I quit doing activities that he didn't approve of (and did others such as reading in the park, going go karting, etc) and he still wasn't treating me with respect. It was clear. I didn't want to be M to his behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and did not immediately apologize for going against him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But DID you eventually apologize? Just curious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes H was upset with me- more so because of how dressed up I got (Black vlevet flare pants- hot pink funky shirt and hot pink highheeled shoes- glitter- straightened hair) As he said he feels I am out looking for a BF- which I am not. Today H has shown no sign of continued hurt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This, to me, just demonstrates your H's manipulative tendencies. You see, spouses like ours (abusive and controlling) don't let things go like this. They will seem to let it go, and then bring it back up at a later date when it is convenient. If he let it go that easily, I seriously doubt he was hurt. He was upset that he couldn't control you. Not "hurt" by what you did. There is a HUGE difference.

The part you need to work on is how you are perceiving his actions. You are still hoping that he will miraculously change. But until he even begins to show actions contrary to his past actions (and in a repeatable and consistent manner), then everything he does can only play into his past motivations - control and manipulativeness.

Getting upset with you fills a need for him. A need for power. A need to feel superior to you. A need for you to be 'lower' than him. That way, he can feel like he is doing you and the world a favor - he is staying with you - watching after you - taking care of you......in his mind, a very altruistic behavior. Much like a person who voluntarily takes care of a disabled child who is not their own.

The problem is that unless you agree to be disabled , you ARE NOT. And then, it is not an equal relationship. Remember - this is a MARRIAGE.......NOT a parent/child relationship.

KMEJ, I was not saying you were wrong in what you were doing. Going to that party was not 'wrong'. In fact, I bet being able to do something you wanted to felt pretty good. And rightfully so - you have been deprived for a long time.

BUT - if you are going to continue to play his games, then you must begin to play by all the rules (including your own.....if you don't want him to go out, you can't either - particularly if both of you thinks the other might be having an A) if you are to move forward in either reconciliation or strengthening yourself to move apart. If you don't play by the rules, then that gives you an excuse to continue tolerating his behavior b/c part of you knows that you haven't lived up to your end of the bargain either.

Once you decide to stop playing his games, one of two things will happen. He will change - or you will have enough strength to leave. It won't be easy, but your anger, resentment, and realization of the degrees of inequality will provide your strength.

You wanted to know "how" - that is "how". But it's really more about DOING than anything else. You must learn to break out of your own patterns. Your actions the other night (while clearly not "wrong") only perpetuated the dance you and your H participate in.

Not picking on you......just really hoping you start to look at things realistically.

PS - when I first went to my counselor (3 months after confessing to my A) - he diagnosed me with "Rosy Depression".....a deep depression where I refused to acknowledge the depth of my Marital situation because I kept looking at things through rose colored glasses......I kept 'hoping' that things would change.

What I did not realize is that I needed to change my responses, my actions, and my mentality also.

That's what you need to work on as well.

Good post Cherished! You hit the nail on the head! It's part of a pattern we have developed in the abusive relationship. A very subtle pattern that must be broken in order to see the relationship for what it really is. And seeing the true relationship gives us more strength to make the steps and changes we need to.

Kudos!