RIF,

Thank you. What you said made me feel accepted. I really needed that right now.

Froz

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I fear we are growing further and further apart instead of together. I don't know how to reach him and I don't know how to let him reach me. I sure miss my best friend.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frozen - A good pro-marriage MC won't make this any easier or quicker or less painfull, but they will keep you both pointed in the same direction and they will teach you both how to reach out to each other....

Oh, and BTW, I suspect that Patriot accepts you just as you are... but he might be having a hard time right now in being able to show you or tell you that he does...

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I suspect that Patriot accepts you just as you are</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What makes you say this? I ask because I sure could use some light today.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

Frozen there is no excuse for physical abuse and that is what he had done. It makes you not want to address anything for fear he will hurt you. He is afraid of telling you the truth. I am very much like you and very sensitive to others moods. You need to get stronger and I would write him a letter wxplaining some of your thoughts. I awoke this am around 4 with dreams again of my WH 2 women. This has not happened in a long time. I bought the book yesterday HN/HN since WH will not read this site. I am hoping to be able to reach him with this book. I gave mine a card yesterday that was on forgiveness and wrote in it that I would like us to be able to talk like the best friends and lovers like we used to. That if he has anything to tell me to feel free. I will be there for him. You sound like me my MC told me I am the one that teaches my H. So I have been trying to teach him. It takes awhile he was never a good student but I will and must for us to make this R work. Try thinking of him as your student. Don't know if this will work for you but maybe worth a try. I think my H thinks I will be gone if he tells me the truth and I think the more time that goes by he will bury this in himself. It will hurt us more by doing this.

Frozen,

Just chiming in to say..that all you are feeling right now is very much natural and expected.

Patriot can NOT be grabbing you and physically preventing you from leaving though..this is unacceptable..Patriot..if you are reading this..THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!! YOU CAN NOT MAKE HER STAY WITH YOU!! SO CUT IT OUT!!

Frozen..I think once you accept that you are only there by choice..that you have every right in the world to walk away..no obligation to do otherwise whatsoever..then perhaps you will not be in such turmoil.

What I feel when I read your posts is a woman who wants out . Is that true? Is that what you want?

Unless you WANT to recover..it isn't going to happen.

Don't think of Patriot..don't think of the person you thought he was..because you KNOW that was a lie...what do YOU Frozen want? What will YOU Frozen sacrifice for? No matter what choice you make..there will be loss. There is no way out without pain. What do you want?

Noodle

I just want to stop hurting. I don't think I can deal with it much more. I'm sitting here crying my eyes out. Patriot is out of town today and I really, really need him. I really needed him last night but he needed to sleep. I've been up since 2:30 am. I honestly don't know how I'm going to make it through the day.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

Oh frozen (((((hugs))))) - its ok cry it will help. You need rest girl. Take a hot bath and try to sleep. You are worn out. Take care gotta go to work..Later.

Hey Frozen - The reason that I say that I suspect that Patriot accepts you just as you are is because his A was NOT about you...

I agree with the others... physical violence is NEVER acceptable. Please protect yourself and don't accept that behavior.

I agree with Noodle...you have to WANT to rebuild your M. Only YOU can decide if you want to rebuild your M. Patriot doesn't have a say in this now, he gave up that "right" by having the A.... this is strictly YOUR decision now.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Frpzen,

Assume that you will hurt no matter what. What a silly question for me to ask. Makes me think of the Docs having me fill out forms and explain procedure to me during labor. I would have stuck that needle in my own eye to make the pain go away by then. I would have smoked crack if I thought it would make me feel better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Of course you want to stop hurting..but Frozen..this is a real wound..a burn..and you will have to go through the process of healing from it..and you will have a scar even when you are feeling better. It's done..you can't reverse time and undo it.

So..assuming that you WILL have pain..do you want it with Patriot..or without him.

That is the choice that is before you.

No obligation.
No guarantees.

What do you WANT?

Noodle

With him. But I want the guarantee. Maybe that's what you hear in me. I can't go through this again. I'd rather die.

There is no guarantee. There never was.

You'll have to accept that.

Noodle

Nothing is worth going through this again.

You know...I'm about 2 years out from Dday..[March will mark it]

And I was thinking the other day..about that very thing..

If I had the chance to choose to avoid dealing with this A by choosing not to have married H in the first place..would I take it.

I do not have an answer. I might..I might not..

I would have answered very differently had I been asked in the time frame that you now find yourself.

Frozen, life is risk. Every venture you take involves risk. Every single one.

Now, if you are familiar with the MB concepts..you know as well as I do..that although you have great investment in Patriot..you can withdraw that investment if you choose. You know that he isn't your soul mate..that there ARE other men for whom you could fall in love.

The question that you have to answer for yourself..is this..Do I WANT to risk with Patriot..is HE worth that to me..because I know that he can be replaced..and I know that I risk no matter what..but do I WANT to make a go of it with him..of my own free will?

I have seen Patriot post that HE wants to be your source of strength..I must disagree with this..I think it folly. If HE is your source of strength then you MUST have a guarantee to be able to depend on him as he wishes..you would be a fool to do otherwise.

Yet..you KNOW that he is fallible..and worse, weak and unreliable..he has proven it over and again.

Still you DESIRE his company and to share love with him..

So it's a really tangled knot..but a knot of your own desires..you are the only one who can chose which threads to cut and which to untangle.

My source of strength is God..and I find him reliable and unchangable..reliance on God allows me to be strong for myself..which then allows me to risk with my H of my own will to do so.

Find your source..and be strong all by yourself..then decide whether you want to include him or no.

I think this is the inevitable conclusion..but probably not one you are ready to make..

What is the rush? Take TIME to grieve. Don't make any commitments..don't be pushed or swayed..there is nothing left to fear..the worst has become reality..it is done. So grieve your loss and allow yourself time to heal.

If Patriot is serious about his commitment he can stand by you with no guarantees from you either..if he is serious he will risk loss also.

Focus on TODAY and todays troubles..if you need to go home and take a bath and go to bed..do so..this is not s sprint to the finish..it will take the amount of time it takes..these things are beyond your control.

Do you have a friend who could come and keep you company?

Noodle

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you KNOW that he is fallible..and worse, weak and unreliable..he has proven it over and again</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do YOU think he is worth the risk? Just curious.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My source of strength is God..and I find him reliable and unchangable</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am SO ANGRY with God. Will I go to Hell for saying that?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is the rush? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sick of feeling this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if you need to go home and take a bath and go to bed</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never even made it out the door. Hiding out here again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have a friend who could come and keep you company?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just you guys. Thanks, btw.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you KNOW that he is fallible..and worse, weak and unreliable..he has proven it over and again</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do YOU think he is worth the risk? Just curious.

Do you really want to know? Does it matter what I think?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My source of strength is God..and I find him reliable and unchangable</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am SO ANGRY with God. Will I go to Hell for saying that?

I'm angry at God too..no you won't go to hell for saying that. I have a journal that I titled "I, Jonah" because that is who I identify with..go read the book of Jonah and have a good laugh at Noodle sitting aside from the party..stewing..with the worms

There are many things in the bible that I am in TURMOIL over..but I do understand that this is caused by my own lack of perspective..not Gods ...God is big enough to handle your anger..cry out your rage..he loves you, there is nothing to fear.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is the rush? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sick of feeling this way.

Part of this you have no choice about..but feeling rushed..feeling like you need to have an answer right now today is probably feeding the pain and resentment. You allowed yourself to be pushed into a marriage..[very unethical by the way, of Patriot] do not allow yourself to be pushed through this. He does not get an answer until you are good and ready to give one. If that is 3 years from now then so be it. What is important is that you reach a conclusion that satisfies you..despite having to acknowledge that your options are not great.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if you need to go home and take a bath and go to bed</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never even made it out the door. Hiding out here again.

Then take a shower..and go see a movie..it's fun to have the whole theatre to yourself..you can whoop and wail all you want..or go for a trip..maybe to visit friends or family..whatever it is that you are doing..it is FEEDING your depression..so do something else..something healthy. What do you LIKE to do for fun?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have a friend who could come and keep you company?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just you guys. Thanks, btw. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Noodle

Dear Froz.....

Here's the truth you can't see right now.

Right now (but not for always) the person you are THE most angry at ---> yourself, Frozen!

Frozen's willingness to go through with the wedding with no boundary in place to protect her ... angers YOU
and more importantly
scares the bejezzus out of YOU!

Am I wrong?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">view your feelings within the context of their existence</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have read this post about 50 times, trying to absorb it. I can't begin to explain to you what a foreign concept this is for me. After read # 50, I think I kind of understand what you are trying to say (it sounded like Greek the first time I read it), I just have no idea what methods to use to accomplish this. I am probably THE most emotional person I have ever met. I make decisions and conduct my life based entirely on emotion and intuition. I have never considered this to be a character flaw. I want to ask you if it is, but I'm afraid of your answer. If you say yes, I will feel like damaged goods because this quality is something that defines my personality. It is what enables me to possess some of what I thought were my best qualities - being giving, very loving, understanding, empathetic, etc...Maybe I need to read it 50 more times. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you just wrote tells me that you are not completely ruled by your emotions. The fact that you can see them as 'stand alone entities' viewed from a distance is proof.

No one wants to change your personality.

Here is a quote from me "Simply put, our choices must define boundaries for our emotions".

What I think you need to do at this point in your life, is to move your boundaries, and limit, at least for a time, your reaction to your emotions.

Technically, your normal boundaries may be fine for your emotions when they are at 'normal' levels. Right now, they are extreme. They are ruling you instead of you ruling them. You need to reign them in.

Patriot's affair is a great example of emotion without proper boundary. In this case, the attentions of the other woman felt good to him. So, he had her. His emotion overruled his moral boundaries. That is a character issue and needs to be dealt with.

This is probably why The Lord says that "the heart is deceitful above all else". Sounds like a pretty good take on the perils of humanity to me.

Take stock of what you have. Life is not as bad as it seems to you right now. Please tell me about what is good in your life. I know that there are good things there, you just have to see them.

Gimble

Pep,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I wrong?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You rarely are

I thought you forgot about me. Could I ask you a question. I've been thinking about something you posted to Patriot a time back, in the beginning. You said "I really like your wife, by the way". Why? What was it you saw?

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
You said "I really like your wife, by the way". Why? What was it you saw?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you mean why do I like you?

Need a little stroking do ya?

Well, OK!!!!

Here's part of what I like about you:

smart
warm
dedicated
caring
flawed
honest
loving
pissy
survivor

........ what's NOT to like?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to reign them in</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How. I would appreciate any suggestions on methods to use.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That is a character issue and needs to be dealt with </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to sound redundant, but...how does this need to be dealt with?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please tell me about what is good in your life</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have two very beautiful children. My DD17 is an artist and has the most beautiful soul of anyone I've ever met. My DS(almost 15) is a genius. He has a 4.2 GPA and is ranked 28th in his Freshman class of 588 students. He wants to go into engineering. I'm very proud of both of them.

I own a business. I started it myself and it's very successful. I'm proud of it, as well. I'm proud of the fact that I started out as a teenage mother on welfare and now, at 35, I have two teenagers who make terrific grades and are rarely in trouble and a stable business that enables me to provide for them.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>