Get in control what you can..

you have four weeks..

seek legal counsel this week over seperation issues...
seek what legal grounds you can get on children NOT being exposed to third party individuals...

also start cutting out apartments for him and leave them for him...tell him to start looking TODAY....as leases and credit checks take time...

also consider your monetary safety..seperate accounts...

these are all signs from you that YOU mean business about no longer being part of his chaos...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
<strong> I don't want us to be at loggerheads but how do I handle this? If I insist he leaves now he will be very angry etc if I let him stay I feel I can't move on.

And in my heart all I want is him to turn his heart back to me.

S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Arty, I would suggest asking him to leave now so you can move on. He should not expect you to accommodate his every little whim in this manner. Thats ok if he's angry. He will likely repspect you for showing some backbone.

In the meantime, please follow ark's advice and protect yourself financially.

Arty,

I agree with what was said here. I was in a similar sitch. Last November my H said he was not in love etc etc. and stated that when he could afford he would find a place and move out. Come mid December, dying a little more each day, I woke up one morning and basically decided I would be the one to make the decisions. That same day I found a house that was perfect for me and the kids, called my H and insisted he sign the offer to purchase. We put ours up for sale and now the children and I are in our new home. We would have stayed that way for too long while making up his mind about how much $ was enough. (it never is for him!) He had no immediate need to be somewhere else because the OW lives in another country. I was only there to make his life easy, well it has been very difficult and I am almost ready now to go to Plan B. Almost all the messy paperwork and taxes are done for last year.

Be strong! why should he be the one to decide which day is perfect for him. You will feel empowered with a decision based on what makes you stronger in your own eyes.

I wish you well and send my heart felt prayers in your direction.
Shelly C

Iast nigh he slept in DD bed (she is away) on my insistance. One point for me. I hardly slept all night and in the morning woke to ask him what we are doing. And he said "seprating as a acrimoniously as we can. I asked why and he said because he no longer wants to live with me. One point to him, I know you are right I should just distance myself from him emotionally as well as physically but it is so hard to watch someone making a mistake that will hurt all involved. I feel so powerless.

We are seeing our accountant on Thursday. So I will get an idea of how to make sure I am financially secure then. I will also call my lawyer although I am going to try and keep this whole thing as calm as possible. At the moment he wants nothing but out, so I have more to gain from him not getting angry.

When he leaves go directly to Plan B.
This scares me a little cos I am scared that he will cut me off financially if I cut him off emotionally. He wants us to show a untied front to the kids and bring them up together on "two campuses". Is that possible in Plan B?

I know once he is gone I can rebuild my self respect and
I can rebuild a happy home for my kids.

You can do this Arty.
Thanks for believing in me. I have no choice but to do this.

Shelly, you are a very brave woman to move your family like that.
My H thinks we have no financial problems and has no idea. I am worried that he will over extend financially and leave us all in debt.
I think our sitch has a few similaritites. We have also been together for 20 years, we have 3 kids and I still love him.
S

Arty,

Some days I don't feel so brave like this very moment! H just left after another round of emotional upset; I am working towards Plan B soon because this is killing me!

I had to make the decision to leave, if I didnt it would have been like a slow death, waiting each day to see if he would come home and say he was leaving me. I needed to feel like I had some say in my life! My children didn't need to be around broken glass and eggshells all over!!

Things have been better for the children at the new place, there is more serenity, (except when H comes around like today and breaks my heart all over again!) I need to be stronger and so do you!

Twenty years is such a long time to love someone and feel like it has been thrown out like a smelly sofa!! Worn and used, I always like to see if it can be reupholstered and rebuilt! Some analogy heh!! I am athe worn out sofa that he doesn't want to have redone because he likes the new streamline versions!! But there will be someone in the future who likes the old style and can envision what it would be like in their space!!

Arty, take heart and take control! Be the strong woman you can be, listen to a song by Amy Sky called Phenominal Woman. It got me through 3 years ago and I will be putting on again.Make a pack to do for you and be the best loving woman you can be for yourself. The WH do not deserve to be loved so loyaly by great women like us!

Shelly

I know that once he is out I will be stronger. It just can't get any lower than this. I know he needs to do this. If he is happy with out me, well that is his choice. If he isn't, then we will see what we can do to repair. But meanwhile this is his journey and I will have to find my own new journey, all the while supporting my kids through his selfish decisions.

Someone wrote to me that the sun will still shine when he is gone. And as I stepped out of the office today and the sun was shining. He hasn't gone but I know the sun wii still shine and for that I am grateful.
S

Good morning Arty,

Is the sun shining today? I sure hope so. Keep your chin up.

You know I have a library of books that have helped me enourmously! They range from Dr. Laura's Care and Feeding (I was never good at a** kissing so never finished it) right through to Rebuilding. That is a good book! I find strength and resolve, at least for awhile, when I am reading. That is also how I feel when I am on the MB site reading other letters and seeing how we are all in this together. Some day I will wake up on a sunny day and go through the whole day smiling and feeling whole again! So goes our journey.

If you want to talk anytime just email me at shellyC@telusplanet.net

Hi Shelly,
Physically the sun is shining but my heart and my life has a dark cloud hanging over it.
Yesterday H and I went to a school dinner for DD. We are new to the school and certainly no one there knows we are about to end our M.
H asked if I would come past his work and pick him up. I asked him if he thought there would be a parking problem. He said it would be nicer to go together. I told him he is going cos he is DD Dad and I am going cos I am her Mum and that is all we share these days, so I'll meet him there. While we were there we acted like the perfect couple and it was a very pleasant evening.

When I got home I asked him if he occassionally wonders whether he would prefer to stay with the mother of his kids - answer -it's too late for that. I think he is making such a big mistake but you can't make someone think like you.

I am trying to keep my chin up but seem to do a better job in H absense. That is why I think I will be better off when he does move out.
One of my issues is that he is hanging around trying to find the right 'cottage' to move into. He wants to do it in style. I think part of all of this for him is the bachelor life he missed out on in his 20s (yes- midlife crisis). H says it would be better for the kids if he has set up a nice place and not rush it and to some extent I agree with him and also do not want any more anger between us then needs to be. On the other hand he says he doesn't want to be here, shouldn't he leave and let me rebuild? I would like to insist but it will only cause more animosity between us. What do you think?
I have read a few books. I find them irritating mainly because they are rarely just like my situation. It often drives home that unless 2 want to work on a M you have no hope, as well as all the ways I failed to follow the MB principles. Making me wonder if I am where I am because of me and could I have avoided it by following MB closer.
This site does make me feel less alone but I wonder too whether it allows me to let this consume me. I must remeber the sun will still shine with out him!!!

Some day I will wake up on a sunny day and go through the whole day smiling and feeling whole again!
Looking forward to that day for both of us.

Thanks for being so kind and for giving me your e-mail. I try to analys why am scared to e-mail you. I think it is because I feel so betrayed that I am too scared to trust another person or rely on some one. How awful is that?!

S

Arty,

If I didn't know I was here I'd swear I was you!!

I think people like us always want to do the right thing, sometimes or most times even at the expense of ourselves. I too had great anguish over what is the best for my family? Sometimes I do think that it would be better if it was just all over with. If only I could stop the love I feel I would be fine!

I think both you and I need to stop analysing everything and stop beating ourselves up so much. We did not choose the path we find ouselves on, maybe we should find some good for us on the journey?

Take care for now,

Shelly

Today was not a good day here either, I have three kids at home. My DD is 11, almost 12 and boy am I not looking forward to the next few years. She is a real sprite but she really wears me out. That's what happens when you have your 4th child at 39! My oldest DD is 29 and well on her own. My two boys are 15 and 16 and all the emotional turmoil is taking its toll. Today we all (H too) went out bowling and then for Dim Sum in Chinatown. Was a nice enough day. When we got home I took DD to the grocery store. Within 1 hour my H calls me from my house. I say why are you at my house? He says that there was a problem and where am I? I was almost home. It seems that the boys got into a play fight that turned into a real fight. The younger was scared and went next door to the neighbours(welcome to the neighbourhood they are thinking!) to call his dad because I did not have my cell. The older called his dad also because he was worried about what he had done. Anyways as you can guess we had one of those afternoons. We all sat down and talked about the feelings and what was happening was to be expected. I hate it that this is all so unhappy and it could so be better if we could just go to MC and find our way back!

H says that isn't going to happen, that he is moving on and I need to do the same. My god! it has only been a few weeks and he is already moved on? I know it is because of the OW, he has her to fall back to. I wonder how long that will last!

I have to decide if I really do want my marriage. I too have trust issues, starting from very young when I was abused by my grandfather. From there it was downhill, an early marriage at 18 wass a disaster, then shortly after that one I did it again, I was so needy for love that I took the next man who came along that seemed to care! I was 24 when that one ended. When I married my H at age 32 I really thought that I had myself figured out and that this one was the right one. What is it about me that everyone of my signifcant others in my life have cheated on me?!! My mom says I chose right but things changed and with my business and my H mid life crisis everything disintegrated and here we are now! My parents are in their 59th year of marriage and my 4 brothers are all past the 30 year marks, I am the black sheep! What to do.

FYI - I am one of the most trustworthy and loyal people I know. My belief system is based on what goes around comes around and that kindness is always the right way to go. I am too empathetic, or is that pathetic?!

Hi Shelly,
How did you manage a day of fun together? Can you be around him without crying, asking him to change his mind or losing your temper with him? My H gets confused cos I sway from asking him to say to getting angry and losing my temper.

I do so want to make this as easy for the kids as I can. I hate myself for having a part in destroying their safety net.
You are right we didn't chose this path but could we have avoided it?

Your family sound, vibrant and fiesty- they will keep you on your toes but also hopefully destract you from the reality of this mess. How's that for finding the good in everything?

it could so be better if we could just go to MC and find our way back!

I think so to and I told my H that I would walk over hot coals to save my family and my M but it takes 2 to save a M and I am not going to burn my feet alone. So except we must -they for the time being want out.
My H OW has apparently moved on even though she has another man over the past year she has managed to phone my H at least once a week.
I am sorry to hear about you tough childhood and youth, I'm sure that makes trusting and healing all the harder.
We need to stop looking for happiness to be brought to us on a silver platter (by our H) but find it within ourselves.

Shelly, you sound like a kind and giving person and that is why you have allowed others to hurt you. Let's get tougher and protect ourselves!

S

Arty,

Unfortunately I do no manage Plan A very well it seems. Today all I wanted to do was tell him what a big mistake he was making, giving up such a great family and for what? An OW who is, in my opinion, willing but unattainable! I do cry around him alot, before I can turn around the tears just flow. Nothing is required, just my broken heart. That is why I am debating whether to proceed to Plan B. I need to gather myself and being around him is just too hard for me in the head space I am in at this time.

When I look back on my life I can only marvel at the inner strength I have had that enabled me to grow and grow. I am a very competent business woman after staying home for 11 years with the children! I never had a formal education but I never let that stop me from doing what I wanted, or from learning about everyathing I needed to know to get where I wanted. What I don't get is where is all that inner resolve now? How can I allow one persons lack of love affect me so much?

I need to get back in the saddle and get on with business. Literally, I need to get to work before I start to loose that too! Success will be the best revenge ( Living well is also!!)

Where do you live in this great world? Do you have a career or passion in your life?

Shelly

Hi Shelly,
Sorry it has taken me a while to get back here. We have had a whole lot of evening commitments with our kids schools. We have gone together and played the happy couple. After each event, I wonder why he wants out so badly. I also keep telling him he is making a big mistake. My IC today told me I must stop telling him everything that is on my mind cos he knows I want him to stay and I am not going to change his mind. I too look at him and the tears just well up and I know that getting on with it and being strong is a better option. Either you get your life back or they see what their missing- win win. No one wants to be with a sad person - especially not one they feel guilty about making them sad. All facts I know but can't control my behaviour.
I too would love to Plan B but I don't think I have the inner strength and I am scared that he will get so angry at me that it will cause greater tension and distance between us. He will think I am doing it to punish him.
You sound like such a strong person. Don't search for revenge that will only help to ruin you. Look for your own security, success and happiness.
I live in Melbourne Australia. My H is a physician, I have spent the last ten years of my life running his practice. All my dreams and hopes were always wrapped up in his career and his achievements. I knew our family would feel abandoned if we both strove to achieve separate careers. My passion has always been my family but I have always loved art and I think I am a bit of a fustrated artist. That is what my new direction will be when I get my strength cos even that is scary for me right now.
Shelly, what about you? Where are you and what makes you tick?

S

Morning Arty,

Well it must be late in the day for you now down under. I looked at the time noted for your last post and saw 4:38 am and thought you were having a very sleepless night, is this the time you posted or is it converted to our time. I wonder?

I live in Calgary, Alberta in Canada. Today we have bright sun and it will be 10'C today. The snow should finish melting. I am so tired of the slushy mess finding it's way into my back door with the dog and the kids!

I own my own catering and event planning business, have done so now for over 6 years. Funny, I think back on what my H said to me when I started. Ï will divorce you if you do this" . That mad me so mad because here he was travelling aroudn the world do trainings, going to exotic places, my last child was in school and I needed to be challenged and inspired. To get a regular job would have meant that I would not be able to be flexible for my children's comings and goings. I really ahs worked out well for the most part. I was definately hard to start something without a lot money backing me up.I started small and slow and before I knew it I was going gung ho! I now have two chefs, and a few parat time cooks, an office manager and lots of on call servers etc. THe business has been holding it's own and doing as well as can be expected for only the 6th year. I have very large goals and I started a new venture last September to do an upscale meal delivery service for professionals who are too busy to eat well. It has been hard to devote the time to this I should be as shortly after my H said he wanted out of the M. Now that things are sor of settled in, the new home, the separation agreement is done, all that is left to do is stop the heart pain for myself! Ic I can do that I am sure that that little extra strength I can muster will do well directed to business and getting back on my feet!

You know that with all your experience running your husbands business that you have the skills to be on your own. Do you still work with him? How hard would that be to be going through what you are and have to see min 24/7. You need Arty time to regain yourself, go have a massage and spa day. Let someone look after you for a few hours.

Well, I thought I would drop you a line once the kids were aff to school. I have to get myself into the shower and get dressed for the day. I have a 9:30 appt and then have to scoot to the office for awhile.

Talk with you soon,

Shelly

HI Shelly,
It is now about 5.20pm here so when I post this you will see the time difference cos the post has American time zone (I think).

I have been to Vancouver with H on a conference- in the good old days. While you are waiting for the snow to melt we are in the midst of summer- weird.

You should be very proud, I know a few woman who have tried to set up events managment and catering businesses and failed. So many new businesses never take off. I too have always dreamt of doing something for myself but at the end of the day his practice, I saw as our financial future and it gave me the flexibility (to some extent) that you mention. I thought I was staying there for the greater good of my family.

I have just returned from our accountant who will start to set wheels in motion to ensure our financial security and independance through this separation. My H has no idea about budgets and I am very scared that part of his desire is to set up a bachelour pad with no one controlling the budget. That is why I figure one accountant with our greater financial security in mind is better than two fighting one another. I hope it works.

Thanks for your support, I do know that I have skills that I could take elsewhere but at the moment the business supports us all and I don't want it to suffer and I also feel that I own 50% of it and I am not walking away from that and its future potential. I have seen too many woman in my positon end up with just the family home and no way to support themselves- I will do all I can to protect myself financially. We don't have that much to do with one another in the office as he is seeing the patients. Only occassionally when he is on the phone or gets an e-mail I wonder if it is OW.

I keep engaging him in discussions about how/why he could be doing this. That I still love him and believe if we both worked at it we could have a happy life together. My brain tells me I will not change his mind and there is only one road left for us but my heart can't except it. My IC keeps telling me to stop telling him what he already knows but can't/won't listen to. I need to work on that.

Thanks for being here for me

S

Hi Arty,

I actually wrote a huge post this morning and lost it! I was so annoyed, will try again.

Yes you do own 50% and you do need to keep it up. You have earned it for sure!

I just got back from a coffee date with a long time friend. Her and her husband have been couple friends of ours for over 10 years now. They are not taking sides which is good because I really enjoy their company. I, for the most part, have been able to retain relationships with most of our friends, most are not too happy with the way the H is handling his life right now. The general concenus is that he is confused, unhappy and doesn't know what to do! I guess this could mean there is some hope but I cannot dwell on that possibility. All I want to do is be the best person I can be. That means getting out and having a life!

Last year I took up belly dancing and this year I might take up Argentino Tango. Very exotic, and good for the soul. Hopefully I can feel good about my body again. Who knows how one will feel if it comes to being intimate with someone new in the future. Scary thought!!

Have you read the book called Rebuilding? I would recommend it, it helps identifuy the feelings and what to do with them. I swear I coudl go broke hanging out at the bookstores the way I do. Always looking for answers when really I already know what I should do!

Get up and get going! Be someone H would want to have in his life again, all on my own. If that happens who knows how I will be feeling at that time, either way it has to be a win win for me!

I wish I had a few single girlfriends to hang with, there is a new blues bar in the burbs here that has great food and is very unthreatening to may age group, but I would not feel comfortable being there alone. I am not looking for someone I just want a change of venue occasionally!

My H and I have to decide what to do about the summer holidays soon. It is one of my busiest times of the catering seasons. We have weddings and also the second week of July is Stampede Week in Calgary. All he!! breaks loose and the city goes wild with parties, cowboys come out of the woodwork. Corporations everywhere throw street parties and breakfasts for very large groups. We do 2 to 3 events a day during that period. My H has agreed to have the kids for that 10 day period as I am not home much overseeing the events etc.

It is a bright sunny 14'c today, the smow is 70% gone and feels like spring has sprung. But alas it i only Feb and we will, for sure, get more of the white stuff before long again.

What personal interests do you have besides your family? What feeds your passions? You need to do for you you know?

I am off to the office for a short while and my bookkeeper is coming to get the paperwork for alst month.

I have a school meeting tonight. I am chairing a committee for an Adult Evening in April. With my experience I could do it all myself! I guess I have to be polite and let others feel like they are doing some of the things?! LOL (I am such a controller!!)

I am enjoying parlezing with you so write back.

Shelly

Hi Shelly,
Quick note to tell you I have no time at the moment am on my way to meet DD. A 6 hour drive , with H. Will be interesting. Will try and stay dark.
I won't be back till late on Monday. Will be thinking of you. Stay strong. Speak as soon as I'm back.
S

Well Arty,

I am sure your weekend will be a challenge for you. I sure hope you were able to contain yourself and not LB.

The only way, I think, that you and I are going to get our M back is to "live in love" at all times. Not as much for the WS as for you yourself. The peace that comes from reacting out of love instead of anger or pain is incredible. I remember 3 years ago when my H had is EA with my best friend I found a place of profound peace in my heart and I was able to show my H a love like never before, not matter what he was doing or saying. What that did was give him the choice of remaining in the M with me or going off on his own.

It is too sad that I slipped back into my old ways once he was resettled into our R. I blame myself for not seeing then that there was more work to do and that I should have been the one to push forward with it. I got confident and lazy!!

I am going to try to find that place in my heart again, it will be my only chance to find my way back into his soul! I know I can do it again.

I promise to God that once I am there I will do all I can to find the beauty in my H and our R.

I wish for you the peace to move forward. Let me know how your weekend went, I am anxious to hear.

Hugs
Shelly

Hi Shelly,
The weekend was challenging on one hand, but also an opportunity to be a family again. No one knew of our circumstrances and in a way we just played the part.

It is too late for me to save mt M. He wants out and only remenbers and focuses on the bad. I have tried different tacks of showing him how much I care and he only remembers the times I lost my temper. He is so sure that we have no hope, I am in a no win situation. When I first found out about the A, I tried to be all he wanted to be and akcnowledged my allowing our M to get stale but he never responded.
Don't blame yourself, a good M takes two willing participants. Even an open talk when your H wasn't getting what he needed may have been more appropriate the an A.
I LB big time tonight by asking him when he intends to leave. I'm not sure how to deal with him being here physically but not emotionally and what my stand should be. I may open another thread to get some other peoples ideas.
What do you think? Should I allow him to stay even though he says he wants out. He is distant and hurtful but says I don't appreciate that he is a good Dad and does some odd jobs for me so I should let him stay unti;l he sets up a 'cottage' cos that would be better for the kids. He acts as if this is no big deal and it breaks my heart.

Hugs
S

Hi Arty,

The weekend must have been a challeng!!. I know that the times I spend time with H and the kids helps to remind me of what it could be! But your right - it is not what we want it to be no matter how much we fool ourselves at that moment in time.

I do not think it is too late! I do think however that you need to withdraw your emotions from the surface and find ways to do things for yourself that allow you to feel strong and capable!

I was in your sitch in Nov.Dec, H wanted to leave me and the kids but couldn't go quite yet as he needed to get $$ in order etc etc. I would live each day talking stupid talk to him about trying to recover, how dumb his A was and how it would never work blah blah. All that did was drive the wedge further between us. I was at a IC session and she said to me "Why are you allowing your H to determine the "marriages schedule" basically she was saying how does it feel for you to wait with a sword over your head?
I guess I slept on that and the next day, for some reason unknown to me, I went looking at homes for sale. I found the perfect house. It was like God put it there specifically for me!

It was very scary to be the one to leave, but instinctively I knew he would have followed thru on his talk about leaving and I did not want to be in the home that we shared, too many memories and too much upkeep! I felt that the new surroundings would allow a fresh start either way it turned out. The kids still go to the same schools and have the same friends so that was good for them!!

Our home sold in Dec very quickly (4 days) and H is still living there until the sale closed in March. It has been good for him to be alone and miss us! He then moves to a condo just a block or two from where we are now.

In my opinion, I have a better chance of showing changes in me in the new surroundings of the fresh start, and with H being so close if I can maintain a calm and loving happy demeanor maybe he will come around?!

Search your heart, can you take some kind of command of your sitch, feel some sense of control instead of helplessness? If you all stay for awhile find ways to get out on your own and do things for yourself that you haven't allowed yourself to do because your were the "good wife and mother" all the time. Let him take some of the responsibility for the kids and home while you are gone. It helps to keep your mind from dwelling on him!

I'm sure others here on the MB board will have some great advise for you. Keep the faith and love yourself too!

Hugs
Shelly

Hi Shelly,

I think I was so focused on getting through the weekend that I never thought past it. I then fell in a heap. I will now pick myself up and move forward with as much strength and dignity as I can muster. I am not moving out of this home for the moment _ I want the kids to have some stability. Although long term, it needs maintenance and a reno to be livable. So I will probably sell and move on.

I agree with you that I must withdraw emotionally and not get swept in trying to convince him that he is making a mistake. On the other hand having him here is so hard. He tries to pretend we are still H and W. The mixed messages are hard, I actually believe I will cope better once the kids know and he is gone. The waiting for this drama is so hard. I can't even get him to commit to a date for his departure. If I kick him out he will be angry if I let him stay, it is all his agenda- I can't seem to win this -at least in the short term,

You are so brave, moving your family the way you did but I know my limitations. Besides I don't have the funds to just purchase another house.

How long do you think we will live in the vague hope that our H will come around? I have been waiting for that for the past year and 5 months. Are we kidding ourselves? I will find a sense of control by not showing any emotion and just letting it happen. I must find that strength. I have to stop giving amunition to justify his leaving. A calm me will make leaving less desirable. I am not kidding myself, he must go but I will not let him feel that he was justified. He is constantly blaming me for where our M is today.

Thanks for being there -you are great!!!!!
S