</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> But,if having other's chaperone your exchanges was not discussed or agreed upon,you have to nip that in the bud.

I,for one,would not appreciate my WH having another person I am unfamiliar with or even worse,don't like,coming along to pick up my kids at exchanges.This is about the parents time.I have a feeling your WW would not like it if you did the same.

Whomever your mediator is or however you are in contact with regards to the kids,explain it to her this way,not in person,if you are not comfortable with it.IMHO.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I never agreed to having 'friends' come over to my house whenever they felt like it - I know they are here after I leave for work going thru her stuff, 'cause there's piles of crap all over the place when I get home in the morning...

What! Change locks. Contact intermediary pronto.

Hello David-

I don't want to give a whole lot of my opinion to ya, because I'm really a fine one to talk, but I just wanted to see if possible your intermediary might be able to be there for you when the kids are picked up/dropped off....just a thought, that way you wouldn't have to see her, since it's so hard on you.

You know I love ya David, I hope you are doing well.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> What! Change locks. Contact intermediary pronto. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I'd change the locks, but I want her to get her stuff out!!!!

I did let her know via intermediary that I only meant HER and the kids in the house when I was gone....not whatever assortment she brings with her. Probably the same people that have photocopies of my journal...

David

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Hello David-

I don't want to give a whole lot of my opinion to ya, because I'm really a fine one to talk, but I just wanted to see if possible your intermediary might be able to be there for you when the kids are picked up/dropped off....just a thought, that way you wouldn't have to see her, since it's so hard on you.

You know I love ya David, I hope you are doing well.

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Caren - I had a similar idea - I was thinking she could drop them off at the intermediary (my BIL) and he could bring them over....

I hope all is well with you. Wish you had the 'net back!


David

GEEZ - just as I have to go to work.

Called the kids to say goodnight, WW comes on the phone and says she is taking them to church with some new guy - she's been talking about him lately - wanted to give him my couch. It feels like a new A!

My gut is wrenching......I knew the old OM was dumping her - but DANG ---- this feels too wierd! To church too!

I don't have time to do anything right now.....

Gotta go....

A little.....ANGRY.......David

My,My,My.She is vindictive isn't she.Stand your ground David.She is testing you big time.DON'T CRACK.

Maintain Plan B.Stay the course.DOCUMENT.What she says,what she is doing.She is off the deep end now and your kids are at risk.You will have to let your BIL(intermediary) know calmly that this is not acceptable,allowing some unkown OM to be around your kids.That to me is serious business!

Remind me how you have set up "parenting time" with the WW.

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tanelornpete:
<strong> GEEZ - just as I have to go to work.

Called the kids to say goodnight, WW comes on the phone and says she is taking them to church with some new guy - she's been talking about him lately - wanted to give him my couch. It feels like a new A!

My gut is wrenching......I knew the old OM was dumping her - but DANG ---- this feels too wierd! To church too!

I don't have time to do anything right now.....

Gotta go....

A little.....ANGRY.......David </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is one of your requirements NOT to let her bring strange persons around your children? With her track record that c/b anyone.

If so, then take action to bring your children back to safety. Is that possible? Do it ASAP. Maybe even consider calling the police report that your estranged W has called about bringing unknown strange men around your children and now fear for their safety. Let them know she is deep into affairs and not able to check out these people. Even it right now it is only 1 person, let them know there have been others and you need to know what precautions you can take to make sure your children are safe. It maybe that you have to let them suffer this weekend through this but you can take steps next week to secure proper visitation. When she violates those agreements, she answers to the court not just to you.

JMHO,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> My,My,My.She is vindictive isn't she.Stand your ground David.She is testing you big time.DON'T CRACK.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Crack is not the word I've been thinking most of the night. DIVORCE keeps leaping to mind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Maintain Plan B.Stay the course.DOCUMENT.What she says,what she is doing.She is off the deep end now and your kids are at risk.You will have to let your BIL(intermediary) know calmly that this is not acceptable,allowing some unkown OM to be around your kids.That to me is serious business! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems serious to me too - apparently this is also the guy she went to the 'Formal' with. It looks like I have ANOTHER A to expose - and he's taking her to his church, with his grandmother! As for documenting, I am writing this stuff down, but that just works out to 'he says, she says' in court....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Remind me how you have set up "parenting time" with the WW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">O - could you explain what you mean by 'parenting time?'

In essence her idea was to have the kids stay at her place on the nights I worked because there's no one here between 6:30 p.m and 6:00 a.m. My idea was that DS17 is very responsible and capable of contacting either me at work (I have a direct line) or BIL (intermediary) or the police, depending on his judgment. She didn't really like the idea - she does love the kids (I believe) and wants to see them - although so far all she's done is find out what things dad has not been buying them and then getting the the stuff (Grrrrr). Anyway - is that what you meant by 'parenting time'?

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Is one of your requirements NOT to let her bring strange persons around your children? With her track record that c/b anyone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That wasn't in the original PBL - I hadn't really thought about there being a 'string' of men involved.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If so, then take action to bring your children back to safety. Is that possible? Do it ASAP. Maybe even consider calling the police report that your estranged W has called about bringing unknown strange men around your children and now fear for their safety. Let them know she is deep into affairs and not able to check out these people. Even it right now it is only 1 person, let them know there have been others and you need to know what precautions you can take to make sure your children are safe. It maybe that you have to let them suffer this weekend through this but you can take steps next week to secure proper visitation. When she violates those agreements, she answers to the court not just to you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am trying to figure a reasonable response for my intermediary - I'd rather take more drastic measures, but am learning patience here.....

Although I could use some advice om why not to divorce my WW this week....

Thanks L (=

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,

Parenting time,visitation(same thing) is what I meant.I didn't remember or know how you and your WW set up seeing the kids or who stays with whom.

If you want to go ahead with a D that is your option but I was under the impression you were still trying to deal with this and hang in there.Don't crack meant to stay with it and not fold under the actions your WW is doing.It's your choice though,all along,whether or not you stay.

Documenting isn't always he said she said.If you have things written down and they coincide with say,your DD's testimony,then it does matter when it comes time to decide about visitation and behavior.Judges DO look at how the kids have been treated and what the status has been at home.Kids are the main concern.If you are documenting that the children are being inappropriately exposed to other MEN while she is still married,that will be taken into account unless the Judge is a complete....nevermind.

You still didn't quite accurately mention how the kids time is set up.In other words,I would be upset if the time your WW has with the kids,she is exposing them to inappropriate and hurtful,confusing behavior(other men).In that respect,I would get a legal order barring her from doing this and at least in my state,I know that I could have done this.Have you looked into this? Whether or not you actually divorce,you are now still married.Her behavior is unacceptable and we KNOW that if the roles were reversed,she would be flipping out royally if you were bringing other women along to church and who know where else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Your WW reminds me of Lost without her's WW.I don't know if you knew of him.He doesn't really post anymore and is divorced but his WW acted a lot like yours and never did get out of the mess she made.Unfortunately.Hopefully that is not your WW too but she keeps digging deeper and deeper.Ugh.

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> David,

Parenting time,visitation(same thing) is what I meant.I didn't remember or know how you and your WW set up seeing the kids or who stays with whom.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">O - never set up specific times - basically I gave you the short version in my above post. Essentually, she wants the kids to stay at her house while I work. Unfortunately I did not prepare for a bunch of 'A's is a row, And I understood what you mean by the term 'crack' - it won't happened - something has changed in the month since she left.

BUt I am still considering a D. I'm not sure I even eant a new improved Cheryl back - mostly becaues I don;t trust her, and the rest is explained in my above post.....


<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You still didn't quite accurately mention how the kids time is set up.In other words,I would be upset if the time your WW has with the kids,she is exposing them to inappropriate and hurtful,confusing behavior(other men).</strong>p/quote]

YEAH! She never mentioned having this guy as her line - even though she went to a dnace with him...]/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In that respect,I would get a legal order barring her from doing this and at least in my state,I know that I could have done this.Have you looked into this? Whether or not you actually divorce,you are now still married.Her behavior is unacceptable and we KNOW that if the roles were reversed,she would be flipping out royally if you were bringing other women along to church and who know where else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> [/qb][/QUOTE]Took me by siprise, too (she never falis to shock a person!) I am aware of what is at stake and left a VMN with my attourny - not that he's respone.....


My kids come first. I'll just keave it at that - this won't happen again.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your WW reminds me of Lost without her's WW.I don't know if you knew of him.He doesn't really post anymore and is divorced but his WW acted a lot like yours and never did get out of the mess she made.Unfortunately.Hopefully that is not your WW too but she keeps digging deeper and deeper.Ugh.O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I fif rea up on his posts - I'm not sure I oould leave with the omputerlllll


Thankx for your concern!

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Ok,your last message was a bit confusing but maybe you need a break.Post later when you are able.Hope you're alright.

O

David,

A WS' needs should not be the responsibility of any family member. A wife's and mother's needs s/b.

Make sure you meet the right person's needs. If you need to have the children watched by her while you are at work, then do so. If you don't and have better or other arrangements then do so. Do what is good for your family.

Your frustration is when you intermix the 2 needs and find you have been manipulated into meeting a WS need. It makes you angry and you want to end it all with a D or something. This is not healthy.

If you choose a D it s/b your choice made with a clear mind and calm heart. It should not be a choice made in an disconnected emotional state of mind and heart.

BTW as to her having multiple A's. Well it c/b or not, the point is you don't know and can't made decisions as if it is only 1. One is bad enough. That doubt c/b used to your advantage. This w/b raising such type of doubts when discussing responsbilities.

example:

WS: I want to watch the children more. I miss them. (really means - I want to establish you are not with them enough and need to create child support $$ for the WS to fuel the A).

BS: Well, I would like you to watch them but you have been preoccupied with 'other people' and I do not feel our children are safe in this type of enviornment.

WS: "Other People"???? Who are they? I have only been seeing..... 2 guys.

BS: Oh, well (BS only knew of 1 up to this point, just learned something new). Well you have been secretive among other things. Can't tell how many 'other people' you have been around. This is what does not make it safe for our children. I will get back to you on the visitation options.

WS: Visitation? These are my children too.

BS: Yes they are and they have the right t/b safe. As a mother you should know that. Let me know when you stop associating with these 'other people' and then we can talk.

At this point you have disarmed the A by calling the OM 'other people'. You can also imply OM or OW to your WS. Most don't like this twist but in reality since the BS does not know all, you can raise that doubt. Try it. I did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Ok,your last message was a bit confusing but maybe you need a break.Post later when you are able.Hope you're alright.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Geez, O, ok, so that's what happens when I post after some 18 hours on no sleep. I'd say that post made no sense (even now I need more sleep) - bascically I was really stunned and angry that my WW has decided that, since she has been 'dumped' bu the OM (put on a back shelf, I'm sure) she decidrd to go outh with even younger guys (this onr is 21) amd is draggin my kids with her TO CHURCH, as though that sommehone rectivifes the sutuation.

As to putting myself in her shoes, I'd be in direct physical danger - at least she does NOT have thay to worry about (although OM(s) might. I'm getting tired of this crap and want an end to it now and forever...

Hope that clears up my case. I spent the night with a room full of local nutcases, including a guy that could not stand up (no drugs involved- just severe mental probs) who kept removing his pants in a crowded (over 100 people( waiting room, Finall had to locj him is a secure room. Fun Saturday Night at one of the top 100 hospitals in the US. I'm sorry if I was unclear - will try to be later after a few more hours of sleeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppp!


David (love ya all)

Yes,do get some shut eye David.I don't know if you knew,I'm an RN so I know what it's like working the ER! I used to work in a top 10 city hosptial too(MGH ring a bell?).Wouldn't that be funny if we had worked at the same one!

Take care now.Keep us posted.

O

O!!!! LOL

I work at Salem General Hospital in Oregon - was just on the Discovery Channel - I was even on there for a brief monent.....still - you know what I'm talking about! I'm looking at a week of 4 20 hour shifts - I'm the only one left standing at the moment....aaarg! Everyoone else either has the flu or has been admittted.....I hate (but love) those long shifts - get to sleep in the break room, everyone hearss me snoring,.....LOL

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

WW just called me to see if the kids could stay another night. Accused me of being drunk last night....ok, fog talking, but about as wierd as saying she saw me take off with the Aliens tonight and wondered if that was me she was talking to.

Anyway, she was trying to get my OK to let the kids attend church with this new guy. Told her absolutely no, but dunno what her plans are.

I did find this out - she has talked my dd9 INTO MOVING OVER THERE. NOT HAPPY.

With no custody arrngmnts or anything, I don;t have a lot of say, but this moves me one step closer to divorce, flat out, almost had to say it. I can't have my kids hanging our while mom 'whores' herself out at any moment.

AM NOT HAPPY RIGHT NOW. ADVICE WOULD BE USEFUL.....

David

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,

No advice. After what you have been through, I just want to send you an {{{MB hug}}}. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You are working on that custody thingy right? I know you have long shifts but maybe this week?

RE: WS showing she is not stable. Better the children be where it is safer.

Hope you got some rest.

JMHO,
L.