Caren,

Just handle yourself with dignity and well, I guess humor, since you probably can't help that part. Really, tho, my friends and I (and keep in mind that we all have lots of drama, unwelcome or not) all pretty much agree (which is why they are my friends) that everyone and every sitch is different. Each person has to handle things in their own way, which is why MB guidelines are usually referred to as such, guidelines.

Yes, your WH does deserve a "chance" to "do the right thing". Just, Care, don't expect it. I don't know him, but it seems that those WS's can sure be weird. Not like us BS's, who are ALWAYS sane and normal. And right. Did I tell you already that I am always right?

Which brings me to that initial thing. Why am I the BSer?! I am not a BSer, I am right..did you get that now? ...How 'bout now?

Seriously - if we can do that for just a minute - you should give him this chance, and then still make your own plans for the future (financially, at least). And let him know that you have plans for the future financially, that you are NOT relying on him to always get you out of a bind or to come back. But he did put you in this bind, so the right thing for him to do would to at least loosen the straps a little.

Good Luck Caren, and remember not to get to drunk on the drama. Is that stuff cheaper than beer? Probably not in the long run,huh.

jls

Oh, btw.....They STILL won't release me to work, I asked today, they said they were thinking more MID-March...and yes, this is AFTER I told them my situation with my finances.

*sigh* Cs-Cs, I can't really move out of central ohio, my Mom generally will pick my kids up and watch them for me when I have work or school, if DD19 is working, my support network (albeit kinda lame) is here. So I hesitate to move, if I did move I'd just move the heck out of state.

-Caren

Head out of your [censored] == Cranium removed from anus.
HOOYA tho sounds better than CRFA.

Just ask him if he can hear you very well, or does he need to clean the feces out of his ears?

Ears full of feces, sounds worse than drunk on drama. Sucks to be him, huh?

Ok guys.....

I putting myself out there because I feel like Caren Mc is getting the short end of the stick by some.....

I live in the same county as her and you can't get a one bedroom apartment for less than 600, unless you want to live in the slums (the city). To add to it, our housing is controlled by the school systems. No one in this town wants to send their kids to the public city schools because they aren't very good....so most of us parents get stuck paying high rent in the suburbs where the public schools are better. That is where my husband and I live, and we live paycheck to paycheck.

The other thing I want to mention is Caren Mc husbands wage. Many people in our city make that much.....the economy here is pretty sad. Even college grads in this town can't find jobs - so they are working for min wage at our local Starbucks.

And last.... when her phone was turned off and she was still using the computer...suspicion never crossed my mind. It is cheaper to have a cable modem than it is to run it through the phone company. The reason being we have lots of competiton for cable companies - no competition for phone companies. Not to mention, our phone company is ridiculous about payment/shut off...where our cable companies will go to great lengths to work with you.

I don't know how you are doing it Caren Mc....

By the way....I would call FCCS until I started getting an answer that was consistant. With our government offices here...you have to call a few times and then take the answers you've been given the most as the right one.

It sucks, but it's true.

Rachel

I am so fricken nervous about talking to him...It makes me feel sick just thinking about it....I have no idea what his position is....although, he is now driving a DIFFERENT car than the one that didn't "work so good", so how dire can things be for him? I think this is the 2nd car...yeah, he didn't have a car when I moved out except the hot rod, but work was only like a block and a 1/2 away from our house, and I was driving him there.....I mean his Mom's BF does work for a car lot, but that doesn't mean that the cars are FREE...he says he paid $400 for the daytona, and this one looks to be nicer than that...so who the heck knows, I just know I have bigger fish to fry than what car I'm driving.

I wish I knew what he was thinking on this, I mean like I said none of his options are gonna be easy......Arrrgh why can't I see into the future, it'd make things a lot easier.

I have been praying that God will tell me what to do, which way to turn, I guess I just follow my instincts. I need to write all this crap down that I want to say to him, or I'm going to forget something.

SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING TO CALM ME DOWN I'M FREAKING OUT!!!!!!!!!!

-Caren

Phew Caren,

Drunk on that drama already and it's not even 7..
really tho, it'll be okay.

Tell him that the only reason that you contacted him is about the dire financial straits you are in. Remain calm, I know that you will, once you are talking to him, not us, so that it good. He will probably get mad and ask if that is ALL you need him for?! Don't play into this, he is making his OWN choices. Yes, that is all you need him for right now, while he is still the WS. And hopefully after you have settled into a routine, gone back to work and worked all the kinks out, you won't need him for that as much or urgently like this.

I know that no matter what you say he will counterpoint at this time, DO NOT play into this. Like YOU moved out, right? OOOhh, that is so BAD of you, just because he is having an affair and wants to be a cake-eater! You b*^&(!, huh?, right..

I wish that Orchid would come along with some reverse-babble. But mostly you agree with him, without really agreeing with him- at least that what it seems to me what reverse babble is. Now babbling I have down...but again, it really seems to me like RB is sarcasm, but not drippingly so. Non-obvious sarcasm.

Not sure, but want you to know I am trying...hope someone else comes along..

YOOOHOOOO- OVER HERE...ORCHID, ANYBODY (non-JMs LOL)

((hugs))
jls

JLS-

You're not doing so bad with the advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You're right, I just have this sinking feeling that his answer is going to be me and the girls moving there and him not agreeing to any of my PBL.....that ain't gonna fly, maybe it won't even be offered, but he was talking that smack the other day...not that he *wouldn't* give up OW, but about us moving there....that was when I broke Plan B and talked to him, we had a good talk, but then I started to analyze it. That's part of my problem, I analyze the heck out of everything.

Tonight I let DD10 go to his shop while I was at the grocery store, I dropped her off out front and she went in and asked if she could stay there for a while, I said "Just wave if it's okay, or come back out if it's not" So he said it was okay. When I stopped back by to get her (I figured no harm, no foul, since I was seeing him tonight anyway) he was kinda quiet, and looked nervous...of course that makes me nervous, and I just about ran out of the store...I'm like OKAY BYE....run away run away!!!

I don't understand why I get the FLIGHT urge so desperately when I even get near him....someone tell me if that is normal...sheesh. I didn't feel like this until I went into Plan B...now I feel like that all the time, I want him to call me, so I can not talk to him. I want him to WANT to talk to me.....But not actually talk to him..LMAO I am so completely screwed up I feel like calling him and saying NEVERMIND. But I don't think you can nevermind an eviction notice. Okay it's 8:10, I'm gonna make my list of things to say, then I'll post it here ... I know you'll wait with baited breath (thought I smelled something) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

Caren,
I know how you feel. I sometimes feel like running when I see my WS. The reason is that your WH has caused you so much pain, that you naturally want to get away that which harms you. But what makes it so frustrating is we love those that hurt us. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I admire you Caren. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are going through hell and you keep moving forward. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Keith

Keith-

Am I moving forward? I've officially just spun out of control, you're right I feel the fight or flight thing because he's hurt me...I tried fighting (Not fighting WITH him, tried that too...but I meant fighting FOR him) that didn't work so I just want to RUN...but then I don't wanna run, I wanna stay, because I love him, and I want to be close to him, but I'm afraid of him, Uggggh I can't even get to the right emotion.

I was thinking today the emotions that you have are Glad, Sad, Mad, and Scared.....I never thought it was okay to show sad, or scared....so I RARELY did...I translated what I thought to be negative emotions into an emotion I thought was okay, which is anger....Anger was acceptable to me.....well now I know that I have to manage my anger, I'm not channeling everything into it...now I'm channeling everything into PAIN...everything is painful to me....anxiety=Pain, scared=Pain, Mad=Pain....that's not right either, my emotions don't match I translate everything to Pain...and pain scares the crap outta me. Pain used to make me mad....and if I was mad, I could beat the hell outta someone...something.....verbally assault people without batting an eye. Well I don't know what to do with Pain now if not turn it into anger...so I just sit here with it....Have I introduced you to my pain? Pain this is the MB forum...MB forum...this is my pain. Oh yes, I know my pain is HUMONGOUS, yes I believe it effectively squished my anger...but now it's a monstrosity...NOW WHAT?!?!

So here I sit, this stupid vulnerable, quivering puddle of goo the head shrinkers have made...Woo hoo go me...I can't even hide from my emotions anymore...they friggen find me....they hunt me down and jump on me. Stoopid Emotions!!!!!


-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong>I don't understand why I get the FLIGHT urge so desperately when I even get near him....someone tell me if that is normal...sheesh. I didn't feel like this until I went into Plan B...now I feel like that all the time</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren,

Yes its normal to feel that way. I have to tell you that based upon my own experience my take on that is you are slowly losing love for him. At the start of our separation I felt like I wanted to be around her even though she was doing terrible, terrible things to me all the time. But after a few months (I'd say three) I started dreading the contact we had. I'd get all sick to my stomache on the days she came to pick up the kids. Even every time the phone would ring my stomache would churn (that's when I got call display!). Now she still really bugs me but I do think I am just starting to become indifferent. I chalk it all up to fading love but I have no scientific basis on this, only my gut feel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I really rooting for you and good luck getting your financial situation sorted it out. No sense sitting around fretting about it, make something happen. There is always hope!

Miker

Ok just my thoughts Caren -first of all do you see how much stronger you have become. You go girl ! Now my thoughts -Caren your WH is not facing up to his responsibilities. He needs to get a grip and realize he can not just walk away and be the sweet Daddy-he has to pay child support. He owes this to his daughter. To see that you are able to take care of daughters needs. Roof over head, food, clothing ect. It is time for him to stand up and be a man. Before new cars, girlfriend and dates, ect. He must pay weekly, monthly but somehow pay for his daughter. Just tell him this. How can he expect for you to pay bills ect with no money. Good luck. Let him know you are going to take the steps necessary to get child support if he does not step up and yes he owes back support as well.

Okay, WH called me about 10:00 and asked if I just wanted to meet him today since it was getting so late, I said "No, not really" since I didn't think I could wait another second or I'd freak out and explode.

So I ended up going over to his house, we talked for a long, long time. He only seems a little foggy now....still foggy, but a lot better...plan B fan blow the fog away? I dunno. We sat there and talked for 2 hours, he was trying to work my finances out with me, and we didn't set up concrete child support arrangements (My brain is just mush...I 4got to do it) but he gave me $300, towards the rent, and asked what else he could do to help, I told him I wasn't sure, I'd let him know. So, now I have $500.00 to give the landlord, I told my WH that even if he gave me all 700.00 that I owed it was really just putting a band-aid on the titanic......he didn't offer for us to move there...and I was glad, ain't no way in hell I was entertaining that idea.

I feel a little hopeful, like David, saw my husband again....it's sure darn hard to get to him though, I have to go through hell and high water everytime. He said "Caren, I know I've hurt you, but you've done some pretty messed up stuff" I said "I've done some messed up stuff??". I couldn't remember the nice way to say "It's your mess you clean it up, so I just said it my way, sans...get your head out of your @$$." I don't recall his reply.

So nothing's changed, nothing's different, accept the fact that he appears to be coming out of it some. I know I shouldn't have engaged him in R talk, but I did. He maintains he doesn't want me to file, that he loves me, well the proof is in the puddin' so to speak. He said that he want's our family back together but is scared our M would go right back to the way it was, I assured him this was not the case that I was different now, and that I knew just saying it wasn't enough proof. So we're both saying things that can only be proven by our actions.

I am going to AFDC today see what I can do, and what documentation they for sure need. I know they'll start child support proceedings on him.

I'm not depressed right this minute, but I'm not hopeful either, I don't know what I am to be perfectly honest.

I did tell WH that I would not share him, that he needed to get that straight before he thought anymore about our R.

All in all it was another good talk, that I know I shouldn't have been having, but I got some money towards my bills, I'll call the landlord today and see if he'll take 500.00 towards the rent and stop the eviction, he's not getting a cent until he tells me he's not evicting me.

I did tell WH last night that I wanted my best friend back. I said "I want my BF back, can you do that for me?" He just looked sad.

I know that when I asked him if he was still seeing the OW, I had locked eye contact with him, he hesitated and said "I don't want to say what you don't want to hear", at which point I didn't react, but I'm sure my eyes showed how I felt.

I couldn't cry...I guess that's good....the wellbutrin must be stopping that.

I am going to lunch with the youth minister from the church today (rescheduled from Monday) so I'll mention to her the dire straights I'm in, I'm sure she will be able to sympathize, as her husband had an *A* and they are currently divorcing. She stayed with him for a long time, even after she knew, but she said "Caren, you're supposed to run from sin....I kept asking the Lord to help me, then I realized that I had to leave." She said "For months I just prayed I'd stop having diarrhea." (Too much info, maybe...but I can relate, I was that way for like 4 months). So anyway, point is, I'll mention my finiancial sitch, maybe the church can help...I dunno.

Okay, well I don't have any exciting drama to tell you today dang it. It's much more exciting when there is. I will skip making anything up though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

Thanks for not taking offense at my post about you seeking chaos out. I was afraid you would take it as me blaming you.

The reason I asked is because admitting it's the chaos you crave will help understand WHY you crave it, and help the underlying problem.

There are a couple of different reasons I can think that people create the drama in their life...one is the adrenalin release. The drug that helps their mind think. When a person is good at thinking unde rpressure, they don't like the slow "normal" days because htey can't think as clearly, they get all fuzzy. This is common with people with ADD that are not medicated. They will seek out self-medication, caffeine, drama, anything to jump their brain chemincals into action so they can think things through clearer. This is a brain chemistry problem.

The other reason I can think is something you touched on before. When a person has some major hurts/fears/traumas in their past and they just don't want to think about it, they can turn to alcohol, drugs, and/or drama. Constantly creating chaos in their life keeps them from having to think about hurt and pain...they don't have time...they are spending all their time on SURVIVING. It can be very addictive.

You have been hiding from PAIN, hurt, and rejection all your life. It hurts to feel this. You have covered it up with anger and chaos. And now you are starting to feel it. You are facing that which you have gone to EXTREME measures to hide from and I'm am SO proud of you!! You CAN feel the pain and live. Let yourself!!! Now is a good time...no job, part of your day is free. Let yourself have a pain vacation...wallow. Go there and find out...you CAN handle it!!! You have been more afraid of the pain than nearly anything in your life...and you are stronger than your pain!!


On to what your WH said. He made it sound like there are some MAJOR LBs to get over in your M. He brought this up, and you got defensive. TIme to own up. You helped get the M to where it is (not drive him to an A, but the unhappiiness). You gotta take responsibility for your part and REALLY start to change that. Let me guess, rage and AO were your biggest LB? And how is that going?

Your WH will NOT come back until you can show that the M WILL be different.

I'm sorry. I see enabling going on here.

Your WH has put you through H*^LL on account of his irresponsibility. He thinks he can give you some money towards your rent. That's the answer?? Then, he has nerve enough to blame this back on you.

I think it's continued FOG TALK!!!

The solution to your problems would be for him to get rid of the OW and for you and him to move back in together in order to consolidate your bills. You could then work on RECOVERY.

Separation is not the answer to your financial, family or marital problems!!!

He is continuing to want his cake and eat it too. He is trying to justify his irresponsibility by talking about how you contributed to the marital problems. He is trying to justify the A to himself and you.

You do not have any semblance of your H back, Caren. He is still in the fog.

My vote is for continued PLAN B. He thinks that he has gotten a reprieve and I think he's going to dig in for more continuation of having the both of you. It bothers me that this man will sit there and allow you to have to go to AFDC in order for him to continue to have his fun. YUK!!

I'm all for you going to AFDC and any other place that will assist you in gaining your independence from him. Going ahead with making it on your own is the answer for you. That will move you closer towards being the person you want to be regardless of whether you are with him or not.

He is following the same WH script that I heard. Don't let him fool you. My FWH tried to pay me off so he could continue his fun.

I didn't settle for anything less than all of him. It was not easy at all for us when he first came home. However, being together is what helps the R problems and the financial problems.

Are you hearing me? He has POed me this morning....

I agree with both of you. I agree that he's probably still foggy, I didn't tell him I was going to AFDC, as I said, my brain is mush....I wasn't thinking end result, I was thinking current problem.

I can own up to what I did to cause the marriage to be in a place where he thought an affair was the answer, but I don't think I did some "Pretty messed up stuff" during the marriage, his complaints are mostly centering on Domestic support in the M area. He is talking AFTER I moved out, and YEAH....I was the AO MACHINE, I felt completely justified and I went berzerk....was it right, no.....but I did it.

So, he doesn't know I'm applying for welfare, and I don't feel all warm and fuzzy because he threw money at my situation. I am simply stating he's moved from "I want a divorce and throwing his ring at me" to at least entertaining the idea of not divorcing me.

I am not going to just fall back into his arms and say it's okay honey...I did some messed up stuff so it's okay that you have someone on the side....screw that.

I made it clear to him, much to his dismay, that all of this is SO NOT OKAY with me.

I need to read all my books again.....divorce busting in particular, he can't stand thinking I am moving on, so I think I should be showing him more of that, for sure. I'm not saying I'm abandoning Plan B, just research....gotta do something.

I think I've got him on the ropes....just need to check out how to best use that to my advantage.....so I'm back in B....just studying up.

-Caren

Caren:

What books are you reading? I know for sure that Steve Harley doesn't agree with the Divorce Busting POV? You have all you need here unless you want to go back and read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR.

It's almost too simple. He needs to GET RID OF THE OW in order to meet your PLAN B conditions.... GETTING RID OF THE OW involves writing her a NC LETTER and reconciling with you.

It's not a slow process that you have to buy into. He got to you with his smooth talk.

Mimi-

I know you're right. It's a bitter pill to swallow.

-Caren

Mimi-

Yeah I was gonna read SAA and HN/HN again....I have the DB book and was just flipping through it, and I don't see anything terribly useful there. I also have "Love must be tough" thought I'd re-read some of that.

I know that you're right, I don't know that his talk was all that smooth, I just want it so bad that I take any shred of hope and run with it.

-Caren

Your hope is with taking care of yourself by using the Principles of PLAN B.

LOVE MUST BE TOUGH is a good choice of reading material. It does fit with MB Principles.


I don't see a shred of hope in his TALK with you. It was more FOG LANGUAGE and CAKE-EATING.. YUK!

To think what he has put you through and is putting you through by his waste of money....

You better believe that some of the money that you and your daughter need is being spent on her....

Mimi-

So, how are you btw? How are things going? I get wrapped up in my stuff and forget to be polite.

-Caren