Hi Caren,

Just checking in to see where you are.

Listen,you stay away from the OW ok? Don't make anymore threats about slamming her or showing up at her door especially with your kids.She is trash.Not that she doesn't deserve it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but you have to be the one with all the dignity,don't sink to her level and get into some "bar room" brawl if she comes near you.Call the police instead and get a RO,that will go a lot farther for you and protects you too.You don't want to end up behind bars with your poor kids looking on helplessly.

We have all had moments and vents of wanting to take the OP off the planet and even some premier shows of our own but I get the impression you would actually do something.I just don't want you to get hurt and look like the crazy betrayed W.

And will you get back into that Plan B please?Nothing's changed.Talk is cheap,remember? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good luck getting organized.Keep us posted.

O

Hey Caren, hows it going lately? Boy, you remind me of myself when i first found out. I did some really crazy things . I tore up H's clothes, poured paint on 'em and threw them in the yard. Then i loaded up my cavalier with bricks and drove to ow's relatives house.(thank god I didnt find them there!) While on my way back to the city I seen his truck on the expressway, I followed him to my house,(he had left me 2 days before i found out, swearing to me that there was no one else, that he left because i was crazy and he couldnt deal with an "insane" wife anymore) and when he slowed down to talk to me I gunned my engine and rammed his truck as hard as i could. He took off and i chased him up and down the streets and alleys, ramming his truck every chance i got. I totally identify with the "snapped" thing whatever its called. I really think I lost my mind for that time, How else can you explain a woman trying to ram an explorer with a cavalier? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> None of my antics helped me though. I only made progress when I STOPPED the shenanigans. Rise above gutter trash my girl. although now im giggling at what your wh's look must have been to see you out there blowing the horn all crazy. I recently found ow's credit cards in my h's wallet. now 6 months ago i would have taken them and maxed 'em out, but the new shelly had fun turning them into confetti and throwing them up in the air. Progress huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Carenmc,

Just fyi. You can go to the library and use the internet there if you need to post and don't want to imposet on the neighbors anymore.

Listen to shelly. Please try to step back before you react to stuff. Think of what is healthiest for you and your family before you talk or do anything.

You say the Lord is first in your life. This is not meant to be hard on you, however, I suggest you read your Bible. There is a lot in there about name calling and disrespectful judgements, also about 'tempers' ie: anger.

Try not to do this anymore. It just isn't working for you. I recall you said that you could call your ws a weird a$$ and he wouldn't think anything about it. I disagree. Name calling does not help anyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Use the library. Lot's of people care about you and want to help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi all, sorry, haven't been able to post for a few days, nothing has changed.

What picture link are you talking about believer?

I know that my antics aren't helping the situation, now if I could remember that when it's happening I'd be in good shape, that's the part I can't control.

October, you are right in your evaluation, I would actually go through with it, that's what scares me. It scares me that I'm not afraid....I'm not afraid of very much, and the things I am afraid of I can talk myself out of the fear.........I *should* fear getting on an elevator with some shady looking guy....but I'm not, not in the least. I may not be able to *take* everyone, but I would die trying.....so yes, I have to stay away from her.

I try so hard to put God first, I really do....and I know that when I have these outbursts, I'm not putting him first. I've dropped to my knees and prayed for God to help me more times than I've reacted.

This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life, and all my ranting and raving doesn't fix it.

My 10 year old is exhibiting a lot of the same behaviors as me....she's not acknowledging that it's sad for her to be without her Dad...just like me, everything translates to anger. I sat down with her last night, and we talked, and I told her that I am sick because I kept everything inside, and I don't want her to be sick, so she needs to talk about it. She said "When you talk about this I get so mad I want to break something" I said "It's okay to be mad.....but I think that you really don't want to talk about it because it makes you sad" She started crying and rolled over and hid her face. I said "Honey, don't do that....it's OK to cry, crying isn't bad. When your sad and you cry it helps....it's when you can't cry that you have a problem." I said "This sucks DD10, I know....I know how you're feeling. You feel like nobody's asking what you want, you feel helpless, you miss your Daddy. That's some sad stuff" She's still crying, I said "It's not fair is it? That you can't be with your Daddy....I understand, let me ask you, why don't you ever tell Daddy how you feel? Are you afraid he'd be mad?" She said "I don't know" I said "Baby doll, please just promise Mommy you'll try to talk about how you feel, okay?" She said "Yes" About 1/2 an hour later I said "You feel better?" She said "Yes" I said "You don't feel so mad anymore?" She said "No" I said "See...it's good to talk about what's bothering you and good to cry sometimes."

*sigh* I had this conversation with her and the entire time I felt like kicking the crap outta my WH. WTF? Who does he think he is? Why does he get to decide when it's over? This is bull$h*t. It's over when I say it's over damn it.....and I say it's not over.

-Caren

Yipppeeeeee I got my internet back on. Gosh MB withdrawls suck too...LOL

Well let me tell you that they put me on Wellbutrin, and I've been taking it a little over a week, and this stuff is like crack LOL, my house has never been so damn clean. I even went through all the boxes and threw away the junk I didn't want (I have my entire bedroom closet full of boxes I never unpacked this entire 6 months).

Ummm I'm not really in Plan B anymore, I don't know what you'd call what I am in, cuz it sure ain't plan A either. I guess I'd compare it to the DB 180, you know, if it doesn't work, I can always go back to plan B. I was having an awful time sticking to it, and I broke it twice within a week, and my WH thinks I'm a loon, I'm like "Okay, don't talk to me....now talk to me, NO!! Don't talk to me....Okay I need to talk to you, don't talk to me" He's like "Okay, she's not really very stable" (He never said that, but that's how I felt.)

So, I know I'm gonna have people crawling out of the woodwork to 2x4 me, and I deserve it. But seriously, I have to do what I think is best for my life, and I would have to do a mini plan A again before going back to B anyway.

Oh....I still don't know what's going on with my apartment, the landlord is not returning my calls....so I'm looking for some place cheaper, wish me luck, it won't be easy to find.

I called WH and asked him if he'd like to go get a couple beers with me on Friday night, he said "I don't know" I said "Okay, well I'm just going to XXXXX and XXXXX (Local bars)" And he said "Caren you really can't afford that, and neither can I" I said "Well I hadn't planned on spending much money".....I know if I go to these places A) I would probably drink 3 beers max and B)When I go out I NEVER even have to buy any drinks, someone always buys them for me....usually so fast I can't keep up....so he says he doesn't want to go, and his audibly irritated that I said I was still going, cuz it's okay for him to screw some other girl, but he wants his wifey to sit at home and wait around for him to be done...Yeah, not happening.

-Caren

Caren,

I don't want to 2X4 you. I just want to share that I am apprehensive about helping you. You scream out here for help and then you don't follow through with the suggestions.

Do you want to continue to create drama for yourself or do you really want to make lasting change?

If you really feel like you know all the answers for yourself, why do you keep screaming out here for help?

I feel like we will continue to see you get yourself involved in drama.

How can you invite your WH over for a beer after how he has treated you? You have seemed to the point of almost being homeless. You have almost gotten evicted because of his irresponsibility. You are being emotionally abused...

I'm sad for you.

Alot of folks see you as doing great and really like you alot. I,personally,can feel sucked in with you. Has anyone else felt like this with you in your life?

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Stabilize.
Mini plan A then back to B.

Does that pretty well summarize your plan?

Your .sig is going to hit its maximum size pretty soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

(You cannot mess up his car in mini plan A either, btw.)

My fear is that you will plan A yourself right into plan D, with an RA to boot. My opinion is that your guy will need a strong plan B to 'get it.'

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Was Sad Tiger ]</small>

Mimi-

I appreciate your concern, and I listen to all the advice I am given. I understand you being apprehensive about advising me, rightly so....if you don't feel like you can advise me, I understand. I'm not 100% sure why you are taking this so personally, I'm not trying to act like you did something wrong, and that I'm right...I'm simply stating, truthfully, what I'm doing at this moment in time.....that's it, do you want me to lie and say I'm in Plan B when I'm not?

I am actually still waiting to hear whether or not I'm being evicted. I realize that most people aren't going to agree with me.

Haven't you ever been unsure? Again, these are techniques, and I'm sure they work, but I have to try to do what's best for me, and I'm not thoroughly convinced I'm strong enough to handle Plan B...I'm really not. I guess I haven't taken enough of his crap to be ready, I don't know what will ever be enough.

If you'd like me to discontinue posting here, that's what I'll do.

-Caren

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Good to see your back! I know how you feel. No one messes with you, right? they know better! So you feel like who the hell does wh and ow think they are? Im gonna kick the crap outta BOTH of them! they better RUN when they see me! I have the same mentality, you have to find a way to channel your anger in other ways, i always thoght housecleaning was good , but it seems you do that and still have a ton of anger.

I wonder if your wh is like my fwh used to be. he didnt like all my anger, and stuff he termed "unladylike" behavior. He went for someone who was the exact opposite of me, she was quiet, never yelled or raised her voice, I found her utterly boring. I said this is who i am, this is how you married me, who the heck do you think you are trying to tell ME i have to change! im not the one cheating! YOU change! But as they say, we all had our parts in this, right? I didnt change who I am, but i did learn to tone down my anger and instant negative reactions, step back and take a deep breath. Think, is what im going to do next get me arrested? what will happen to my children if i get locked up? You want your marriage right? OK stupid question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I think you have yet to get to the stage where you work on you. your still very angry. Ive missed you and your posts, i feel like i know you, im happy your back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not thoroughly convinced I'm strong enough to handle Plan B...I'm really not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am convinced that you are strong enough, you just need to let the meds kick in a little more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I haven't taken enough of his crap to be ready, I don't know what will ever be enough.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From experience, you won't see it coming, one day you will have had enough. And you won't care. Plan B is supposed to keep that from happening. I wouldn't know, I ran around like a 'plan-a' chicken with its head cut off for a year, trying to fix me. One day, I had had enough. Plan B may or may not have worked with my WxW. I'll never know for sure.

I see you heading down a similar path, and I just want to warn you.

Best wishes, Caren!

Interesting impression. I'm not taking you personally. I was deliberately focusing on giving my personal impression of you. I think there is a difference. What I mean is, taking you personally would be that you are evoking an emotional reaction from me today. I don't think that's true.

I'm trying to be humble. I really don't think what I think about you should be that important to you. I just wanted to share this reaction in case others may not be honest enough to do so.

I guess I'm wondering whether or not other people may have disappeared from your life for this reason and would not be honest enough to tell you. Am I making sense here?

I'll be back later.....

Mimi-

You do make sense...I can't always follow the advice, I do try, but it doesn't always go right. I am aware that I am probably dead wrong, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, I guess I'm just frightened, I haven't actually *Done* the 180...I was just considering it. I am still going to go have those few beers myself, I knew he'd decline.

In any event I can't go back to B until next week sometime, he has to meet with my counselor. I am trying to do everything they ask of me, so they'll fricken release me. They keep making it longer and longer. I am trying to be honest and truthful, and apparently that's not what they want....they must want sunshine and flowers from me....but I'm not really the sunshine and flowers type. I actually had MY COUNSELOR crying yesterday in group...she said I'm like a time bomb, and she kept saying *tick tick tick* and I'm like "Ummm okay, so how do I diffuse it?" They don't have the answers..only more questions. I don't know what they want, I'm giving them everything I've fricken got...I can't cry because the wellbutrin won't let me. So I'm sure I seem all the more cold.

So anyway, point it, I still understand Mimi, if you don't want to advise me, that's perfectly acceptable to me. I know I'm abrasive, and I know that I probably have chased off a few people due to my inability to take anyone's advice, it wouldn't be the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

-Caren

Caren,

Okay...I have been very busy on a work project.

So, things have stabilized on the financial front, huh? At least for the time being. But you do not see what this is doing...the spiritual battle. Satan is keeping you in place, so you got a reprieve. But he will be back, as soon as you latch onto this again.

First off, get your plan together for your life...and get started. The financial plan. Your work plan. Objectives. This should be your number one priority!!

Second, on your marriage...well, I am not sure what to say. You have so far followed Mimi and what she did to a "T." And until she went to Plan B and stayed, nothing changed. Her husband also started talking about getting rid of OW, etc. And he still made no movement until she shut everything down for good.

So, as I have said umpteen times...I hope this works for you. And it is a possibility. But my money is still on Plan B. If what you are doing right now is to work, then at the very least, you cannot meet his needs, you cannot have SF...and all contact should be surrender negotiations. When where and how this all will end and be put back together. No dinners together, a movie and SF. Plan A is OUT!! If you arent going to Plan B right now, then keep this business, with strict boundaries. "Hey buddy, I am here...but this doesnt move one inch forward until you do what you have to do."

Yes, he MAY chose this financial situation as his excuse to move back and to end things. I hope so. But, what I see is more likely is that he will continue to play around the edges, especially since you are stabilizing things right now. He will let it pass to tomorrow, or next week. Three weeks from now, you will be frustrated because there is still no movement.

The ONLY movement you have seen at all out of your husband has been in response to Plan B. I mean, the only movement towards getting rid of OW. Will he respond to this financial crisis, or Caren losing her mind? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Doubtful, but possible.

Again, as most of us can attest to, you will continue to do what YOU think is right for your family, because your situation is so unique (sarcasm here). And then most likely wake up and again realize that you are no different than many others. It is like the patient that says his illness cant be treated by a certain medication that everyone uses to treat that illness. So, he has the doctors keep trying a myriad of other medicines. But eventually, the patient realizes the doctor was right. And the first medicine was what she needed...that she wasnt unique.

Caren, I continue to pray for you. You make statements like "I dont have the energy to do Plan B." So what? Who said you did? Most of us didnt. But you have God dont you? And He is with you and in you because you are saved, right? So, doesnt it say something about you being able to do ALL things thru Christ who strengthens you?

Come on. You know what the medicine is and what WILL work. You know it is tough medicine and will hurt. But you also know what Jesus told us, and where He is. You can win this whole ballgame immediately, if you will just trust Him and stand your ground.

I am waiting for that. I hope things work for you, no matter which way you do it. But, I also know that the odds are we will be having the talk about going to Plan B againt real soon. And you will bemoan all of the lost weeks. I think, IMHO, that if you had stayed with your Plan B, we would be seeing the end of the affair right now. But instead, now you have pushed that off into the future.

So, I am here for you, as others are. We hope for the best, because you deserve it. And once you realize that you have the power in your hands to change your life around, we will be here for you to help you.

In His arms.

Damn it Mortar, I know you guys are right, I wish I had you around to kick my butt more frequently...as I said, when left to my own devices....I do some stupid stuff.

I know my sitch isn't unique, and I could really just jump off a cliff when I hear you say something like "It could have already been over" and I know that you're right.

I don't know what it is about the way you say things Mortar that brings me back to reality. I dreaded reading your post, to be quite honest, I was scared you were going to tell me I was insufferable and you were done giving me advice. Okay, so he's not going to think I'm completely insane by going back to B again? That's what I'm afraid of. When he stopped thrashing around, and started talking about ending it, I caved. WHY DO I DO THAT?!?!?!?!?

So, should I tell my counselor NO about talking to him? I mean I think that's not gonna be until Wednesday. I don't know what her motivation even is. I think she just wants a feel for what he's doing to know how to advise me, but none of these people know about MB, so they're not going to advise me to do the right thing.

Arrrrrrgh, how do I get back to B? Do I just reinstate no contact without telling him? I don't want to send him another letter, should I just not take his calls?? I'm such an idiot.

-Caren

Mortar, I need one of your stories of how it's gonna go, I don't know why they help, but they do.

-Caren

Wow Caren, I missed your plan B posts. Did he really talk about ending it? It sounds like you were on the right track then. I never went to plan B, my h's a ended in late dec(?), I think i went thru a lot of needless suffering because i felt i couldnt go into plan b.

Calm down, okay? First, I aint gonna stop posting. I was in your shoes, and failed a few times at Plan B myself. So did Mimi. So did most of us. Cut yourself a break here.

On the deal with your counselor...the counselor could be the PERFECT surrender mediator. When my wife came home and said she wanted to work on the marriage, there was a lag time before she ended things officially with OM. In that time, I told her the only way we would talk and interact in these "negotiations" was in counseling. I would go to counseling, I would listen and participate. But my Plan B would remain solid until OM was gone.

So, you two could see the counselor individually, and the counselor could be negotiating his surrender...without you breaking Plan B!! And of course, you will tell counselor that there will be NC until the PBL is adhered to.

Again, stop being hard on yourself. Will he think you are crazy going back to Plan B? Who cares? Right now, he is abusing you. Until the OW is gone, he will continue to abuse you.

So, you leave a note for him, stating you will continue to let the counselor work with the two of you BUT...NC will be adhered to this time. That you cannot continue contact with him because it is damaging your love for him. That is until OW is gone, as outlined in PBL.

Then do it!!

You listen to me because I am saying what you know in your heart is right. You are scared. I was too. I needed people to be blunt with me, to not hug me...but to give me a size 9 1/2 in the keester!

So, cut your self a break...get up...and do what you know is right. This insanity will end when you decide to end it. You can only change YOU!! And once you change, and change your situation, guess what? Everyone else around you must change also in response to your changes. So, just do what is best for Caren! The rest will take care of itself.

I promise.

In His arms.

Okay I just had an "Oh $h*t" moment....my facilitator at my group told me to go and check out the book "Adult Children of Alcoholics" as my Mom is an alcoholic...highly functioning, and dry now (since she's been about 64), I never thought this to be a problem for me....but I just went to their website, and I read "The problem" Holy hell this sounds just like me.

Many of us found that we had several characteristics in common as a result of being brought up in an alcoholic or other dysfunctional households.

We had come to feel isolated, and uneasy with other people, especially authority figures. To protect ourselves, we became people pleasers, even though we lost our own identities in the process. All the same we would mistake any personal criticism as a threat.

We either became alcoholics ourselves, married them, or both. Failing that, we found other compulsive personalities, such as a workaholic, to fulfill our sick need for abandonment.

We lived live from the standpoint of victims. Having an over developed sense of responsibility, we preferred to be concerned with others rather than ourselves. We got guilt feelings when we trusted ourselves, giving in to others. We became reactors rather than actors, letting others take the initiative.

We were dependent personalities, terrified of abandonment, willing to do almost anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to be abandoned emotionally. We keep choosing insecure relationships because they matched our childhood relationship with alcoholic or dysfunctional parents.

These symptoms of the family disease of alcoholism or other dysfunction made us 'co-victims', those who take on the characteristics of the disease without necessarily ever taking a drink. We learned to keep our feelings down as children and keep them buried as adults. As a result of this conditioning, we often confused love with pity, tending to love those we could rescue.

Even more self-defeating, we became addicted to excitement in all our affairs, preferring constant upset to workable solutions.

This is a description, not an indictment.

Does this sound exactly like me? It actually overcame the wellbutrin and tears rolled down my face.

-Caren

***Edited to Add: Just wanted to let all of you know that *I* did not become an alcoholic.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Mortar-

Thank you for your advice, and your patience. I don't know what I'd do without your help.

So you don't think I've irrepairbly damaged my chances at reconcilation?

*sigh* I KNOW that the only time I saw him moving in a positive direction was a reaction to Plan B, and I still had trouble doing it anyway. What, do I need someone to draw me a picture?

I apologize that you have to tell me things a million times before I actually get it. I have always relied on my intellect to get me through everything, and I felt like I wasn't *actively* doing enough to save my marriage. Does that make sense? That it just felt like more waiting to me.

I know you're right, I have to just keep telling myself that. If you could only read my journal...you'd see how all over the board I am in it too, I read it and I'm like...sheesh, I can't stick to anything. I say I'm going to and I have the conviction for like 5 minutes and then I switch gears again. (I know you guys have witnessed it first hand, but my journal is just all my personal thoughts, and they're VERY irratic).

*Sigh* Let me tell you, it's not easy being your own worst enemy, I can do far more destruction than anyone else is capable of, including my WH and OW.

-Caren

Mortarman has gotten me to thinking that maybe I was in your shoes and sounded like you at some point. You just seemed so intent about not trying again in this statement:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But seriously, I have to do what I think is best for my life, and I would have to do a mini plan A again before going back to B anyway.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I read this wrong. I'm sorry.

I really had a hard time understanding you asking him out for some beers. He was right for a change in regards to the money issues.

I am different from you in terms of putting my self-survival first. Priorites for you should be food and a roof over your head...not beers. If not for you, this is important for the safety and protection of your children. I am saying this out of caring and concern for all of you, not to kick you.

You asked me the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Haven't you ever been unsure? Again, these are techniques, and I'm sure they work, but I have to try to do what's best for me, and I'm not thoroughly convinced I'm strong enough to handle Plan B...I'm really not. I guess I haven't taken enough of his crap to be ready, I don't know what will ever be enough.

If you'd like me to discontinue posting here, that's what I'll do.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, you referred to doing, "What's best for me?" as if you are different than any of us here. Why do you think you are special? You seem to think you are special in a negative sense. You are just as strong and capable as I am! I think you will find it easier, in the long run, to do PLAN B than to go out with him for beers. Why would you place yourself at a lower level than me? You are just as important as I am? How can I be the one to decide whether or not you post on this forum are not? We are definitely equals in all of this. I wish both of us didn't have to even be here.

More later... have to go.....