I just cleaned my car last weekend, the house is fricken spotless with the exception of having to run the sweeper in the living room.......I could be doing laundry, but that's not very exciting..LOL

I do need to find something to keep me busy, even when I go back to work, I only work 3 days a week (3-12 hour shifts).....so I have mad free time...which will be cool in the summer, I can take the kids to the pool, but in the winter....yick it's so boring.

*sigh* I'm sitting here trying to write my list of things I like......and I'm getting stalled....what I have so far is:

Black is my favorite color, followed by red, I like them because they're dramatic.

Music-I like mostly hard rock, I've always identified with the anger, I think it's so cool that they have this talent and are able to express themselves this way.

Movies-I like a good chick flick now and then. I like comedies a lot, but I expect ALOT from a comedy.

I like to write, I used to write poetry a lot, I kinda lost that, I guess, I've started doing it again.

I like to shoot hoops, I can't call it basketball because I can't really dribble very well, I just like to shoot the ball...ya know like play the game HORSE.

I love to cook, hate to do the dishes.

I think that steak is probably my favorite food, followed by italian food.

Then I get stuck...I mean that's definitely progress, it's nothing I had to think about, with the exception of the basketball thing and the poetry thing.

After my favorite food, I start back into wife/mother mode.....I am tempted to write things like *taking care of my children and husband*....well I can like it, but it doesn't have to be what I'm about....arrrrgh this is hard.

It's really all I wanna do, just take care of them, I want to take care of WH so much it hurts, but I know the person I need to be taking care of is ME for a while, and then after reconciliation I will have to NOT fall back into being defined by other people.

-Caren

caren

If you want to work on your marriage you must put your rings back on and not use them as a weapon

if they hold meaning and value to you then you should not dismiss that value based on your spouses anything...

also I don't think you should go to Plan B tomorrow...

you need to go back and read your posts and see what you can do to avoid where you have been

you need back up plans for the financial issues...

but most importantly you must work out your plan B with your daughter so that she is no longer part of the tug of war that dad wants to talk to you....

you need to establish clear boundaries with visitation for a while with your husband or she will be sucked right back in to the vortex of plan B....

plan b can be extremely stressful for the children and twice now she has experienced it ..

you need to be stable and steady before you do this....
your children need this..

clear established child visitation with boundaries and consistancy...for a month..with a solid plan A with strict boundaries...
meaning
you are pleasant
and
nice
period
then plan B....

ARK

I'm starting to get nervous about seeing WH, knowing that I'm gonna be going to plan B again, and knowing that I hurt his feelings like I did yesterday. (I'm sure I'm making a way bigger deal about hurting his feelings than he is).

I get nervous and my fricken hands start to feel numb......arrrrgh.

-Caren

Caren - Did you read Ark's post? She is one of the experts.

Also start trying new things. Even if you don't know if you like it, try it and see.

Um, Caren, you can smak me if I'm wrong here, but isn't he getting it somewhere else anyway? Seems to me that you hurt his feelings by not letting him have both of you.......that's not what you want anyway!

One thing I had to learn real fast was that WW's feelings were hers to deal with, and that is part of what he needs....

David

Caren, I am with David on this one. PBH (plan b husband)gets that need met "somewhere" else plus want you to meet it too. I got so tired of feeling so depressed everytime he would use me to fill that need that I do not even feel too bad now for him when SF is denied.

I have so more to offer to my PBWH that he needs to realize it or he wont be back with me. That is not what I am only about. OW probably but not me.

Also I agree with David that those are PBWH feelings to deal with. That is why we do PB, to stay away from their madness and ups and downs. To place us in a safe place.

That is why I am kind of mad at myself for not being ready today for kids drop off and allowing him to bawl in front of me and the baby. He needs to deal with those feelings. I can not help him anymore in that department (and many others).

love

I don't understand how you can be worried about hurting his feelings.

He won't stop the A unless he feels pain and suffering. He has to reach his bottom......

Yes, I was guilty of the same thing too, not wanting my H to hurt. Hurt is essential.

Sorry about that, for some reason Ark's post wasn't there when I posted the thing about being nervous.

Mimi, I know I probably shouldn't feel bad, but I did. I'm not really worried about it today, I just figured out what was screwing with me yesterday.

Arrrrgh I'm so confused, so I shouldn't go to Plan B yet?? I feel like it's crucial to get it going....I feel like there's some sorta time frame....he's been with OW for 5 months (well I say 7 months) isn't there going to start being some wicked attachments if I don't do something in the near future?

I was thinking I should strike while the iron is hot....is that wrong?

I know I have to have more solid boundaries in place this time.

He went with me to take my stepson home (I just realized I was putting DS15 instead of SS15 in all my posts...sorry for the confusion)and on the way home, I was trying to fill the silence with small talk....it's all on me to keep the conversation going, I'm here to tell you, so I was asking him questions about tuning up the car...implying I was going to do it myself. I wasn't fishing for him to offer, I was just trying to make conversation, anyway....we talked about that for a while and then I said "Hmmmmm what other man knowledge do I need to ask you?" I said "I can't think of anything right now, but I'm sure there's something." Then I said "Ya know, I do miss having a man around to open jars...I don't open jars very well" He said "That's not the only thing you should miss a man doing" I sorta smirked, and I said "Ummm I'm just going to ignore that comment." He said "Yeah, you've been ignoring it all weekend" I changed the subject. I believe he was implying I am getting it elsewhere.....Oh well it's dumb to try to read his mind.

Okay, should I put up a poll as to whether or not I should go to plan B yet?? I'm all confused now.

-Caren

Caren,

I am no expert on anything around here but here is my 2 cents.

My feeling from what I have read in your posts and all the replies was that you aren't ready for planB yet. Why do I get that feeling?

Because you don't seem to be at peace about it. You are scared and nervous and unsure. It seems like you should be more at ease and confident that you are doing this for you and instead it is throwing you into a tissy all over again.

I don't think it should be that way. Ark is so full of wisdom and I breathed a sigh of relief when I read that post.....

I have to say though, you did the right thing by denying the SF!! That was a very good move to protect yourself! Remember how bad you felt one other time recently (maybe the last time) when you didn't resist? Good job!

caren...

plan b is to follow plan a...

the better the plan a ...
the better the reality of plan b...

your latest interactions have not been plan a

the last thing your husband needs in his confusion and chaos is your own confusion and chaos....

which to me is what you have been the last few days...

mixed messages
no wedding ring
etc...

and my greatest concern is taking your daughter back to the place where daddy puts her in the middle of getting you on the phone...

that why I suggest you take some time and establish clear consistant visitation....
clear consistant contact patterns...that do not disrupt her when you do go plan b...

I also suggest you stop all chaotic movements on your end...
and just be kind and pleasant..
for a few weeks while you work with him and the children getting along and in to a routine....

and you presenting a home with NO chaos...

also use this time to get your finances in order...
so you can make some back up plans....

then plan B....

caren ..
you know your husband escalates when you go to plan B...so you need to line all your ducks up tight tight tight...

also you need to figure out how to expend your energy that pulls you in to chaos..and that of which you like to create in positive energy that serves you better....

ARK

Ark-

I hear you, and I am glad you posted the part about the wedding ring. It feels wrong not to wear it, I missed it every second that I didn't have it on, but WH hasn't been wearing his for 1/2 a year, so I thought why in the hell should I?I have replaced the ring.

My WH called me last night about 10pm and said "So, what's the deal with you shooting me down all weekend?" I said "What do you mean?" He said "You know what I mean, you've been shooting down SF all weekend long" I said "Yeah" He said "So what's that all about? Did you get some @$$ Friday night when you went out?" I said "Now what would make you say that? I'm married, married people don't sleep around" then I had to tell him to wait a minute so I could go upstairs away from the kids (I was in the basement doing laundry at first--no kids). I went up to my bedroom and continued the conversation. He said "So....what's the deal then?" I said "I'm not sure what you mean." He said "Well you've been acting *funny* ever since Friday, so it seems to me like maybe you got you some @$$." I ignored that comment as I'd already answered it. Then he said "I just don't think it's fair, anytime you want some @$$ you get it" (I don't particularly care for calling it "@$$" but okay) I said "What do you mean?" He said "You know what I mean" I said "From you?" He said "Yeah, anytime you want it from me you get it." I said "Yeah, but you're getting some @$$ someplace else, right? It's not like you're going without." he said "Okay I'm gonna go" I said "Okay, bye."

**********************************************
Was this a DJ???:
"Yeah, but you're getting some @$$ someplace else, right? It's not like you're going without."
***********************************************
I tried so hard not to LB or DJ. But after those words came out I thought.....Hmmm I wonder if that was an LB.

Ark-

I don't know if I can plan A anymore, it's driving me insane. (Not that plan B won't)

And he won't LET me just be nice and pleasant, he feels the need to pressure me for this or that.....SF, etc. I'm sure he's worried that I have someone else waiting in the wings.....but he really should know me a lot better than that. No amount of planning is going to stop him from going ballistic when I go back to plan B again.

I will wait for some more replies, but to be honest, I will never be at peace going into plan B....this is as close for me as it's going to get.

I need to get this thing going, and for me.....being evicted and that not even making him see the light....that's the most disrespectful thing he's done so far. Not disrespectful of me in particular, but of our family.....he's going to be putting us in danger, basically, because anyplace that I'm going to be able to afford is going to be in an area I don't wanna live in. I am losing love units like it's going out of style here............I don't think I can go much longer.

-Caren

CarenMC

Some times we have to call it as we see it. He didn't deny it and you let him know you knew it was still going on. I feel real bad for you but I don't think you did the wrong thing.

RHM

I'm not telling you to aggressively plan a..
I'm telling you to be nice with him and focus on establishing consistant interaction with the children....

look my greatest concern is the chaos this causes your daughter...

that she instantly gets put in a tug of war between the two of you...

she needs to time to process and understand plan B to the best of her ability...and I believe that best way to do that is a plan B that doesn't affect and or involve her very much...

so that she can and will go on seeing dad ...and not HAVE to involve you in that....

Caren the SF advances are nothing...if you set the boundary you choose for that...
if you don't want SF set a boundary and tell him so in a none LBing way....

I really think you need to assess the damage in and out of plan b does to your daughter...
she is one day the keeper of gate between the two of you...
seeing you not talking to dad but all fired up and dramatic...
while dads on the other end of the phone demanding she put mom on the phone...
and then the next day..
you two are talking again...

and then the cycle starts again....

slow down caren....
think this thru....

see the big picture of impact....on the children not just what you feel you need...or how you think plan B will effect him...

and look you can do whatever you want...
my perception may be way off....

ARK

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Ark-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> look my greatest concern is the chaos this causes your daughter...

that she instantly gets put in a tug of war between the two of you... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't like that DD10 gets put in the middle either. I try to keep her out of it, I believe he would do this no matter when I chose to go into B. He only gets her every other Saturday.

And please don't get me wrong, I appreciate your concern for my daughter, I really do, I just don't think it will ever be any different.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren the SF advances are nothing...if you set the boundary you choose for that...
if you don't want SF set a boundary and tell him so in a none LBing way.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no LB way to tell him I don't want to have SF, I have been doing that all weekend, and he just kept pushing until I said what I said.

And, it's not the fact that I don't want SF...I do, but should I be giving him SF? I don't think that it's all that productive to my cause, although I really enjoy it. I only felt bad that one time after SF with my WH, I have had it several times since then with him. It was more a disappointment in myself, that I broke down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really think you need to assess the damage in and out of plan b does to your daughter...
she is one day the keeper of gate between the two of you...
seeing you not talking to dad but all fired up and dramatic...
while dads on the other end of the phone demanding she put mom on the phone...
and then the next day..
you two are talking again...

and then the cycle starts again....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you here, I need to stick to whatever I'm going to do, I think that being without her father is doing a pretty big disservice to my daughter, but I HATE that she gets put in the middle and I have to quit being so inconsistant. I have explained Plan B to her and she understands as much as she can at her age.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> see the big picture of impact....on the children not just what you feel you need...or how you think plan B will effect him...

and look you can do whatever you want...
my perception may be way off.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am trying to look at the big picture, but I am also trying to save my marriage. I don't know what else to do.

I realize I can do whatever I want, but I KNOW my perception is way off (I'm sure your perception is probably dead on)......that's why I put everything up here. I haven't gone back into B yet......I will wait and get some more opinions.

Please don't think that I discount your opinion Ark, I respect you very much. I just feel this sense of impending doom if I don't act pretty quickly.

-Caren

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

caren..

plan b doesnt save marriages...
and be realistic...your husband needs a serious personal revelation about the impact of actions and what his actions have wrought....

it should be quite a while that you agree to take him back...even if he meets the minimal requirements of your plan b letter...

There is no LB way to tell him I don't want to have SF, I have been doing that all weekend, and he just kept pushing until I said what I said.


see these are common BS misconceptions ...just becuase they don't like what you are saying doesn't it make it an LB....
but to power struggle it..
or to engage in conversations that encourage it...that just confusing

WS think asking for no contact is an LB..

you controlling them
you telling them who they can talk to or not...

and caren my take of SF for anyone is that it's your choice...
if you want SF with him then have it...
it's your choice..
but clearer than clear of what the message you are sending with that....

but this waffling of yours that's going on right now...
I do not understand at all....

I don't like that DD10 gets put in the middle either. I try to keep her out of it, I believe he would do this no matter when I chose to go into B. He only gets her every other Saturday

then you need to come up with a creative intervention that stops this as much as you can on your end..

other wise you accept that she's just going to back in the tug of war...

you need to try on your end...
the FREE special ring that mortarman talked of for your phone..
a trak phone so that he can only contact her that way that you won't talk on ever..

email...

with no mediator ten year old girls should not be the mediator....

I think you want plan B right now cause he is so focused on you being with other guys....
and you want to strike while the iron is hot..

that's just more chaos...

ARK

For him to earn his way back, he has to have more respect for you and your marriage AND your daughter than he has been able to demonstrate by acting like some late adolescent acting like he can have two girlfriends. He's forgotten he's married.

Be the lighthouse.

That means, a bit of non-emotional planning. Ark reminded you to study out what caused Plan B failure this last time. Two things. Finances and your daughter's welfare.

So deal with them. Have you called women's services at your local college to see about getting financial aid and support as you return to school?

Then revise your Plan B letter to include a call 2 action on respect as the way back into your heart and arms. That starts with him respecting the terms of Plan B - one side or the other. No contact with you, or no contact with her, with proof. That means he doesn't put your daughter in the middle. That he respects her 10 year old heart and mind and protects her as a FATHER would - not some juvie trying to get back into good graces with his old girlfriend - that he will not use her to get to you. And have some consequences laid out that you can and will follow through with. No threats.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

I'm busy right now but I basically agree with ARK.

Will come back to tell you why soon.

I haven't called women's services, I will call the college today and see what's available.

This makes no sense to me, I was getting 2x4ed like it was going out of style for breaking plan B, and now you guys are telling me not to go into it.

I do not wish to injure my daughter...but I do not think it will ever be any better with him in Plan B that is the way he is, he has ALWAYS been like that.

I believe that he does want to come back to our marriage, our family, he's just stuck right now, the only way I can think of to *unstick* him is by going back to plan B.

I appreciate and respect all of the opinions that I get on here, they help me make a more informed decision. I am not basing this on what *feels* right, as I've been told not to do that, that I won't be able to tell what I should do by doing what I feel is right.

I don't like Plan B, plain and simple, but I know that is what it's going to take to either make him wake up and smell the coffee...or take a hike.

-Caren

KaylaAndy-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> study out what caused Plan B failure this last time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What caused plan B to fail last time wasn't finances or my daughters welfare, I wanted to break it, and I was dreaming up reasons to break it...not necessarily on a conscious level, but I was thinking up all sorts of reasons that I *HAD* to speak to him, when in reality, I really didn't need to. Sure he gave me $300, but he should have given that to me anyway.

So, Plan B failed because A)He was eluding to the fact he wanted our family back and I caved and B) I was looking for a reason to break it.

-Caren

I am currently fighting the urge to call and apologize to my WH for the comment I made last night about him still having SF with OW. I don't want to tell him I'm sorry and then switch gears and go into Plan B, I do enough switching gears on him.

I seriously can't go on doing this, I can't go on seeing him knowing he is with OW and I'm not doing anything about it. It hurts too bad, I can't keep doing this.

Where is the damn rewind button? I want to rewind this to pre-A and do it all differently...but I know I can't. I love this man so much that it's painful, and I can no longer bear the fact that he is sitting on the fence not making a decision, just enjoying the best of both worlds, I cannot, and will not tolerate this.

-Caren