Caren, What do you expect the outcome to be from Plan B? What do you WANT the outcome to be out of Plan B?

I have been cautioning you for weeks, before you even went into Plan B the first time, that you cannot go into it until you have mentally prepared yourself for NC with him...you just said you broke it cuz you wanted to! How do you figure if it didn't work last time, which was only a week ago, it will work this time?

Plan B is not about one day you wnat to go into it, and the next day you want to talk to him to get YOUR fix! It does not work that way...you are both self destructing this marriage!

I agree 100% with ARK...Listen to these people Caren...I only tell you this cuz I cant tell you how many times I have been there! They cant help you if you wont let them...I learned the HARD way!

But if you want to do what YOU want to do, then no one can stop you...that is your choice...I would think very hard about going back into Plan B since you are still not ready for it!

Plan B is supposed to end the chaoes, but look at you...your a mess! Listen to Ark and the others!

What should I be doing then? I know that I'm a mess Mom, but I don't know what else to do, this is destroying me.


-Caren

How many times did you hear... you have to be ready for this to be the end of the M?

You're viewing plan B as some sort of short-term maneuver, and it isn't. You have to be ready for him to leap into the arms of OW for some length of time. Months, maybe. Are you ready for that?

All you do by breaking it is delay resolution to this mess. I think you probably see that.

I think the reason for warning against plan B now is because you showed before that you weren't ready for it.

e.g., "I have to go to his work so my DD can get this thing he bought her." (paraphrase).

Shoot, Caren, a stiff breeze was enough to knock your plan B over before. What's different now?

GC

Well, for one thing, the anti-D's......I don't feel like I'm going to die all the time.

I hope none of you think that I am discounting your advice, I'm absolutely not. I just need to discuss this, does that make sense? I do know I have to be ready......but I honestly don't know if I'll ever be at peace with it.

What should I be doing in the interim?

I know you probably think that I act childish, I do feel fricken childish. I respect your opinions SO MUCH, being here at MB is what keeps me from completely screwing up.

I know a stiff breeze could have blown over my Plan B.....I'm certainly not denying that, I do NOT want to do this and fail for the 3rd time.

-Caren

Dammit Caren, I'm gonna take a 2x4 to you pretty soon, and you'll be picking splinters out of all sorts of places on you pretty soon. You know what to do, you know what you want, and you know how to do it. You need to GO FOR IT. You're just feeding that damned Affair, and it's really frustrating to see you doing this.


<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I seriously can't go on doing this, I can't go on seeing him knowing he is with OW and I'm not doing anything about it. It hurts too bad, I can't keep doing this.

Where is the damn rewind button? I want to rewind this to pre-A and do it all differently...but I know I can't. I love this man so much that it's painful, and I can no longer bear the fact that he is sitting on the fence not making a decision, just enjoying the best of both worlds, I cannot, and will not tolerate this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dangit girl, get busy and do something about it! WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? If you go to plan B, you HAVE to be prepared to lose him - although I really don't think that will happen - but as long as you keep giving him permission to have the affair, and rewarding him for having it, HE WILL NEVER STOP. GOL-DARNIT GIRL, you have a great quality - you are stubborn - now just use it for the RIGHT REASON!

David

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Caren,

You asked a very relevant question, and I think I might have a good answer for you..tell me if it makes sense, ok?

You asked why, if the majority opinion is that you should NOT plan B at this time..why come down so hard when you broke it previously?

The answer is twofold..

Part 1..the easy answer.

Breaking plan B trains the WS to not respect your word. You have drawn a boundary, and in your WSs case..you stepped over it to get to him in less than 24 hours. Why should he take you seriously next time?

Also..the complete disregard for input. I remember that you were considering breaking NC to deal with financial issues. Well, even a cursory glance through the plan would tell you that financial issues are absolutely acceptable to take to the WS..without breaking NC.

You refused to hear this though, Caren. You would say..I'm listening..but you weren't..you were rejecting.

You said yourself..you wanted to break it, and you did.

So, that was one week ago. One. Did you learn from it..very possibly. Are you ready now? I honestly don't know..let's look at the issues.

Part 2..the hard stuff.

GC made a very good point. That you view this as a strategic manuever. A short term one at that. Not very possibly, very likely the end of your marriage.

That is what the end to chaos means Caren. It means he goes away and you move on. That you separate your life from his. That your business is not his business and his is not yours.

That there are two avenues of appropriate discussion. DD and Money, and that is all. Not your feelings, not his feeling..not where you are going Fri..or what/who he is doing. You don't drive by and see where he is. You disengage. This is preparation for permanent separation Caren. It is for you to heal. I MAY result in him becoming willing to work through the issues and back to the marriage..but in no way is that guaranteed.

So, are you ready for that? Really?

If so, then let's deal with the practical stuff.

Last time WH flatly rejected your boundaries..even to the extent of walking into your home. What is your plan for this time?

Last time WH used DD as go between. Not acceptable. I suggest you train him otherwise. When he begins to speak through DD, I suugest that you hang up the phone without ever bringing it to your ear or lips. *click* should be the only response he gets to that. Caren, he is doing it because it works. Make it consistently not work, and he will stop doing it.

Let's deal with these issues BEFORE you attempt another plan B.

I do think that an appropriate amount of time has passed, I think it should be on the table for discussion..but these things can not go unaddressed. Failing to plan is planning to fail and all that.

Noodle

Hey Caren,

Confused yet?? Just when you think you have "got it," the rules change? I know you are thinking this, and listening to Ark and others and wondering "what the heck am I supposed to do?" And I think this confusion comes from a very simple reason.
And that reason is...you expect Plan B to bring back your husband. Thus, Plan B is a form of manipulation for you, used as a way to get what you want.

Before going any further, I want to tell you that Ark and the others are right here about Plan B. You said above that you broke Plan B because you wanted to, that your husband was talking about being a family again. This statement alone tells all of us that have been thru this that Plan B for you is a plan of action to get your husband back. And as all of us have told you, Plan B is NOT that.

Plan A was to drive a wedge between your husband and the OW. Plan A was to show your husband what changes have been made, and what he will be losing if this keeps up.

Plan B is for you!! Plan B almost has nothing to do with your husband. It has to do with you. It has to do with you not being able to continue in this relationship where you are being disrespected...where he cannot give up the OW but wont leave you. It is to take YOU out of the equation. To allow you to start your new life. Your new life where you take care of those finances, where you keep the house clean, and where you demand respect from your husband, whomever that might be. It is where Caren becomes happy with Caren.

Sure, there are added benefits to this problem of the affair. Some spouses dont care. Plan B just allows them to complete what they have already started. But most, and your husband has appeared to be a prime subject, Plan B cuts them off from the person that they really do love. And it forces them to sit down i ntheir fog and to face a reality that is fast approaching...a world without you.

But, that part of it you have NO control over. You cant control him, or his actions. Of course, he shouldnt be able to control you, but so far he has. And that is why you broke Plan B before. Because he controlled you.

So what Ark and others are saying here is that you have to plan out Plan B. It has to be for you. It has to be that you are fed up with the status quo, that your love for him is becoming dangerously low...and you want peace, so you can get on with your life. And IF your husband decides to join you on that road that you are heading down, then so be it. If not, that is his choice also. But, you my dear, are headed down that road for YOU.

Do you see now? I know it is hard. It was hard for all of us to get it. I am a control freak, and believe me, my Plan B failed the first two times because as soon as my wife showed signs that she was cracking...I ran to her. What I didnt know is that I shouldnt have even known she was cracking...I should have been concentrating on me...until the PBL was met in full.

So, your question is should you go to Plan B. The answer is yes, and no. Yes, because I believe that there isnt much more you can do in Plan A...you have done a great job. I say yes, because you have a lot to deal with right now that has nothing to do with your husband. I say yes because I can see your love being drained at an alarming rate.

But I say no because unless you understand Plan B, and plan for it...then it is worthless to even go there. Even if it is the best thing for you to do. Because you will blow it yet again. Planning out Plan B means figuring out what to do about your daughter being in the middle. I know your husband will try at every turn to use her to get to you...but you saying there is nothing you can do about it, is unacceptable. There are things you can do to establish boundaries around your daughter. And we can all discuss these with you to come up with a plan that you are comfortable with.

Your Plan B should include what you are going to do to fill your days in order to get thru withdrawal. It should be a list of things that you are going to fix, correct, start that will allow you to move forward and have the life you want.

Plan B is empowering Caren. Read others who have gone thru it. Not empowering because your gain power over the WS. Empowering because you gain back control of your life fro mthe destructive rollercoaster that the WS put you on. You gain back control of your life because you now learn to establish healthy boundaries for everyone. You gain back your future because you now choose what that future will be like, and what you will and will not accept.

Notice, nowhere in here have I said that Plan B will bring back your husband. While I do believe that he is a prime candidate for Plan B and its effects on him, this should NOT concern you. You should be concerned about going into Plan B with a plan and accomplishing that plan of action for your life and hope you get that done before he MIGHT show up on your door. You want to be in control of your life and future before you will have to deal with the inevitable mess that you and WH will have to deal with should he come home.

Do you see now? You arent stupid. All of us have been where you are. We have failed at this too. We have tried to make Plan B what it isnt. Remember, if you manipulate him home, he will know it. And he will leave again. He has to make the decision, he has to want to come home.

You should, once you are in Plan B, spend most of your posts on here dealing with "Hey, anyone know how I can get back into nursing school?" Or, "Anyone good with finances that can help me set up a budget?"

See? Just two simple questions like that, working on things like that, will do wonders for your confidence and your future. And guess what? Should your husband come home, wouldnt it be nice that you made more money as an RN, and/or you had a household budget set-up, with savings working toward a future? Something that he can step right into?

Now, those were just two examples that I came up with. They may not apply to you. You need to come up with your list.

I hope this settles the confusin, Caren. We are not saying you should not go to Plan B. We are saying that you should go to a real Plan B...not a plan where you try to get your husband home.

Okay, not ask away. It is okay to vent and ask questions here. Let us help you. When have been where you are. Shoot, most of us have been you, mistakes and all. So, take a deep breath, and let's do this right.

In His arms.

Agreeing with MM......YEP

What Are Plan A and Plan B?
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

******************************************
That's Dr.Harley's definition of Plan B.

-Caren

Um..true?

Which part of this do you feel is discordant with what you have been advised?

Noodle

I'm not trying to debate it noodle, I just don't see some of the points outlined in it. I just want to understand, I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, I know I probably come off that way, I'm just having difficulty between what I read in the book and what I'm told here.

I know that is I felt as ready for Plan B as I need to be, none of your advice would sway me, so I believe that you are right and I need to do a bit more before going into Plan B....but you have to understand how confusing the conflicting opinions are.

-Caren

So,

Just bringing it up as reference? It looked like a response. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

What do you think having reviewed it?

Noodle

Hey Caren. I know you are feeling a bit confused, and perhaps frustrated right now. I remember feeling the same way. During our separation, I had a big question here at MB ~ should I expose then-WH, and OW/FBF, at Scouts (FWH was OW's DS's Assistant Scout Master - bad sitch)?

Oh, the opinions were flying! Some were ADAMANT that I tell, and force FWH to deal with the consequences of his actions. Some people weren't sure. I also asked a lot of people here at home what I should do. I asked FWH's mother, his co-leader at Scouts (confidentially), my friends, our MC, my IC, etc.

Ultimately, after gathering ALL the information I could, and hearing it HONESTLY (not just what I wanted to hear, which is not always easy), I alone made that decision. I chose to NOT expose. I honestly couldn't tell if I was wanting to expose in that area to "get back" at them, or to try and end the A. Because, I was pretty sure the A had already died on OW/FBF's part, but of course I didn't believe anything either of them told me at the time.

In the end, I decided that if there was a chance I was going to do that action as a form of manipulation, then I couldn't in "good consciousness" do it.

What I am saying is two-fold. First, in the end, the decision is YOURS to make. We can advise, we can caution, we can bring up things that you might not have already considered. But at the end of the day, you must feel good about what YOU are doing. Second, I have heard a couple posters use the term "manipulation." And "control."

When the brain wants something badly enough, or the heart even, it has a way of making certain decisions seem really really good ~ when in reality, the motives are not good. For instance, on the other side of the coin, my FWH truly believed, when he was all "foggy," that as long as I didn't find out about the A, that his actions didn't hurt me. Or our M even! That thinking seems soooooo strange to me, and it now does to him, also. BUT, at the time, his BRAIN had turned all the information around, so that this line of thinking made sense to him.

Which is why we sometimes say here that the BS enters into a type of fog. I'm not saying you are foggy, because honestly I don't read your sitch often enough to be caught up and "in the loop." However, I do know that if you ARE foggy, you (just like the WS) will be the LAST person to realize it.

So, when I got MYself into that type of thinking, I listened to the people here who had much clearer vision at the time than I did ~ that whole "can't see the forest for the tree that is jammed up against your face" thingie.

I don't believe ark told me to expose at Scouts. I believe what she told me was to not engage in the power struggle with FWH anymore. Because it DID turn into a power struggle. I told FWH at MC (update for you, FWH didn't go to MC at first to save the M, he went to make the D go more smoothly ~ he was CONVINCED that D was the ONLY way) that if him and the boys didn't change troops, I would expose him to the Scout Master.

Wow. Did that create an angry mess. I turned my exposure into a power struggle. And guess who won? Nobody. Guess who lost? Our boys, by H and I creating MORE crap to fight about, MORE distance, MORE LB's and DJ's and AO's and all that.

I backed out, NOT DOWN. I backed OUT of the power struggle. H walked out of that MC office, and we never went back. We DID get a new MC, H's IC became our MC. And a month later he was home. Because I STOPPED manipulating, controlling, power struggling. I just let go. Which is what Plan B is.

Honestly, Caren, if everyone THOUGHT you were ready for Plan B, they would tell you to do it. Apparently, many don't. A poor Plan B does more damage, to you, him, the kids, etc. It creates drama. Plan B is about ending the drama, halting the damage to everyone involved.

If I were you, what I would do TODAY that would be working toward the end goal of a peaceful, good Plan B, is to make up an informal custody agreement that you BOTH agree with. I would also try to accomplish that without having to TALK to him directly (get a go-between - NOT a kid, or use email if you can). Then, use this next week or two to normalize that process ~ drop offs and pick ups with no drama, no contact, not even a visual if you can manage. Slowly, calmly, quietly, back out of the drama, power struggle. Then, in a week or so, after you have posted some successful exchanges (also getting your finances in order WITHOUT his help/input), you will probably be ready for Plan B.

That is what H and I did, and it worked really well for us. Get a plan, get a routine that works for everyone, THEN pull out all the way.

Spidey

Caren,

The advice is not so much conflicting, as it is looking at it from different angles. If you had never seen an elephant before, and I had never seen one...and you were sitting up at its head, and I was at its rear end...we would have very different views of what an elephant is, wouldnt we? You would be describing eyes, a trunk, etc. I would be describing a tail...and some very nasty stuff coming from under it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Is either of us wrong? Of course not. Are our accounts conflicting? Nope. In fact, they are complimentary. If you take both accounts as true, then you can get a FULL picture of what an elephant is, right?

What you posted by Dr. Harley is true. But that article only dealt with one part of Plan B. If you went on to other articles, or have counseled with Steve Harley, you would also get other angles, other parts of Plan B. And if you want to know what Plan B is, then you need to get a FULL picture of the elephant.

Yes, there is a part of Plan B that has to do with your husband. But that part you really have no control over. Thus, once Plan B starts, you cant worry about that part or even concern yourself with it.

Other parts of Plan B you can concern yourself with. That is what Ark and others are trying to get you to concentrate on. Not to be mean or confuse you. but to help you keep your Plan B this time. And if you concentrate on what you can do and should be doing, then you wont concentrate so much on the other part of the elephant that you cannot control.

I hope this helps. Others I think agree, but I will just speak for myself here. I believe you are ready for Plan B and your marriage is ready for it. I say that you are ready in the fact that the timing is right, you have done a great Plan A, your love bank is draining fast, and your husband is on the fence and trying to decide which way to go (by the way, in another article, Dr. Harley says that when a WS is at that point, that is the perfect time to go to Plan B).

What everyone is trying to tell you is not that it isnt time to go to Plan B...it is that you had better have your waterfowl coaxially aligned.

Look, I was in the military. And some operations, there was a perfect time to hit the enemy. But if we did not prepare, did not have our contingency plans in place, then the timing wouldnt matter. Even if it was perfect timing, not being prepared would have caused the operation to fail.

I dont think you need days or weeks to "get ready." I think you need to sit down, and plan this thing out. Do it here. Let us help you do what we call in the military, an Operations Order. Set your boundaries dealing with your husband, and your daughter. Set up in writing (even checklists) what you plan on doing in Plan B.

Then, go to Plan B and go dark...and get busy.

You could get it all done today, if you wanted to. Make your plans...we will help. Then you can go to Plan B.

If you dont set up the boundaries, if you dont have a plan on what to do whle you are dark for yourself...you will fail again. Take it from someone that had to learn the lesson the hard way!!

You are being defensive now Caren. Settle down. Listen. We arent jumping on you. We just know from experience and from MB principles what needs to be done here. In some ways, you will have to trust that. And more importantly, trust God.

Tell Him that this is what you are going to do, and if it isnt His will, ask Him to put up roadblocks. Otherwise, ask Him to protect you and help you move forward. He promised He will.

So, you ready to go to Plan B? Well, then let's do it. We are here for you. let's plan this thing out and get you started.

In His arms.

I am not trying to sound defensive, I am just trying to understand. I get what you're saying, and you're right, I don't have my boundaries in place, I don't have an intermediary that is reliable, I don't have a plan for the phone calls that will inevitably ensue.

I ended up calling WH and apologizing for what I said last night, I said "Hey I just wanted to apologize for what I said last night, it was disrespectful" He didn't really reply, then I said "Would it be okay for me to come and use the fax machine at your work today?" He said "What do you need to fax?" I said "Just something to my credit union" He said "Yeah, I guess" I said "Oh I don't want to get you in trouble" He said "No, it's okay, you can come and use it, but you have to keep your hands to yourself." I said "What?" He said "You can't be groping me while you're here" I said "Okay, I'll try to restrain myself" I said "You do the same, okay?" He said "Oh, no...I'm allowed to grope you" I said "Okay, well can I come after I pick up DD10 at school?" He said "Yeah, that'll be fine" I said "Okay, that way we can ensure a grope free visit" (laughing).

He called me about an hour ago, and said "What are you doing?" I said "Nothing, what's up?" He said "Nothing I just thought I'd tell you I'm gonna come over when I go to let the dogs out and F the sh*t out of you." I said "Oh, you think so, huh?" he said "Yeah, I do" I said "Well DD10 will be home then, so I don't really think that we need to even plan on that." He said "Okay well you think about it" and he said "I gotta go, bye".

Okay, so he stayed home Friday night in hopes I'd come over, I didn't. He was with me until 11:00 pm Saturday night and then he was with me for like 4 hours after work yesterday, then he called me at 10pm to talk about why I wouldn't have SF. Then today he is calling, trying to talk me into it again, and of course that's really not gonna happen during the day, there's no way, even if I wanted to, it's not doable. So that means he's gonna be hot on my trail after work again.

When exactly does he have time for OW? Isn't that dumb skank getting P.O.ed that he has no time for her? I mean I'm just looking at this from my POV, and it seems oddly askew in my direction for a change. I realize this is apt to change any minute now, as soon as the next bout of fog rolls in.

Oh well....guess I'm not in Plan B yet, eh? I'll take some time and figure out all the gory details.

-Caren

Do you see what he does? He can't take thinking there's another rooster in the hen house, he's going nuts, he can't take that I'm rejecting his advances......he doesn't want me to be with anyone else. I'm not playing a game here, he deduced all this crap on his own, he just doesn't know what to do with the rejection, it's putting him in pursuit.

Just an observation.

-Caren

Caren

what is YOUR boundary on the sex issues..

If you don't then you need to say...

darling I would love nothing more than to make love with my husband....and am hopeful that someday you feel the same ....

BUT
I have zero interest in ever ever having sex with a person who doesn't cherish me...and no plans yo do so

ark

I won't say too much because you have a lot to digest.

I basically agree with Mortarman as usual. I also agree with Ark.

I am saying to you what I said to you a few days ago. The others are also saying this.


DEVELOP A PLAN. This process seems new for you. I can hear that from how you describe your house. It seems that you your lifestyle has been disorganized and chaotic. It will be important for you to learn to be more rigid and disciplined about how you lead your life. In MB terms, this is continued PLAN A. In my view, this needs to be your priority now, for you to develop a road map, a game plan, a strategy for yourself.
Until you learn how to do this, PLAN B may be difficult for you.

MY PLAN PRIOR TO PLAN B MM has compared you to me. Emotionally, in reaction to the idea of PLAN B, you are alot like me. However, I had developed A PLAN prior to going into PLAN B. MY PLAN had included a lot of work on myself particularly in the area of self-esteem. We talked about this earlier. I began taking care of myself. So prior to PLAN B: I had a legal separation agreement with ample spousal and child support, computer access to my WH's checking account with his consent, changed phone numbers, a plan to never answer my office phone; a changed workout schedule and on and on.... I had all of this in place.

A lot of this has been stated by ARK, SPIDEY and MM. However, I have a question about the timing for you. This process of self-development took me about 4 to 5 months. My PLAN B lasted 3 months.

What's important for you is the change in mindset that we were talking about. I know about the need for change because I've suffered from low self-esteem, feeling that I couldn't make it without my H. Again I say, begin to focus on yourself, who you are, what you want to accomplish, what are your priorities. Focusing on yourself will be the answer for not only you but also for your children. The HOLY SPIRIT will lead you. Listen to HIM.

In MB terms, this is PLAN A with PLAN B to follow when ready.

Caren, I'm guessing (biiiig stretch here) that sex is a major EN for your H.

I like that you're not giving it up for him, but I'd say you're doing plan B, a la carte.

You give him many of his needs, but withold a few. Let's see... you showed him you could give him the domestic help he craves, and now that's withheld. You never stopped showing him you could give him the SF he craves, and now that's withheld (except for the flirting).

I do think doing a plan B that picks and chooses needs to satisfy and needs to not satisfy, to use MB jargon, is probably foolhardy.

But something like it worked in Lysistrata, didn't it?

GC

Hey graycloud!!!!!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But something like it worked in Lysistrata, didn't it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That really cracked me up. I wonder how many people here will catch that connection!!!!! LOL Very astute. Of course, it's not a COMPLETE Plan B, but it DID work - LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Had to send appreciation - My favorite stories of all times are the Greek classics - especially Aristophanes.....hee hee (I love comedies).

Thanks for making me smile...

David

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>