Thank you Mimi and after much fussing and complaining I concur.

Gray-

Yes you are correct in assuming that SF is one of WH's top EN's probably number 1.

I have been with-holding that, I'm not sure if I'm going to continue or not.....

As far as domestic support, I don't understand how I am with-holding that. My house has been spotless for a while now, and I'm busting my butt to keep it that way.....he doesn't see it all that often, but the last 5 times he's been here it has been totally spotless, and I think that pleases him, and showing him (When he stops by out of the blue and it's still clean)that I have changed this about myself, and am making a conscious effort to keep it that way.

I guess if I'm not going to Plan B I don't have to with-hold SF. Hmmmmmmmmmm I dunno, I'll have to think about that one.

-Caren

I don't see why you need to withold SF if you are doing PLAN A. I know others will probably disagree with me. SF was a high need of my FWH's that the OW was not fulfilling. It has always played a major role in our relationship, still does.

Go ahead and have sex. At the same time, though, work on focusing on developing your sense of self. Work on YOUR PLAN! I think that's the priority.

Surprised??

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess if I'm not going to Plan B I don't have to with-hold SF. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really upset that some people are indicating it would be OK to continue to give SF to your currently-wayward H! HOW can that be done with ANY kind of self-esteem whatsoever? Maybe SF with my H means something different to me than to others, but ~ good grief!!!

You allow him to disrespect you, your M, your family, but you want to please him sexually??? What is the message he gets from that? Oh yeah, that's right, that he can have his cake (OW), and eat it too (SF with YOU).

This whole thing is just going around and around and around. I gotta step off . . .

Peace to you, Caren.

Spidey

Mimi-

Actually yes, I am a little surprised.

I will say the entire time I was in Plan A he knew my whereabouts, actually ever since we separated, he knew where I'd be. I will do Plan A some more, but I plan on taking him out of his comfort zone on where I am, what I'm doing and who I'm with.

I never pinned down what the 3rd EN was for sure, I think SF is definitely #1, #2 would be domestic support, and 3...I'm not sure, it's appearance or admiration, possibly financial support (Which I suck at) I don't think financial is in the top 3. But anyway, I have been filling the top 2 like crazy and the 3rd, I've been trying to show him that I respect/admire him, and I've been very careful to look very nice every time he sees me. So except for the financial part, I think I have his top 4 or 5 nailed.

I am so much more comfortable in Plan A, why can't plan A just work? Damn it.

I think maybe I'll make him work for the SF...I think he has to take me on a date.

-Caren

Caren - I may suck a little at plan B, but I was perfect at Plan A. You don't withhold ANYTHING in plan A - you give to his taker. You will suffer because he won't return your EN's, but the goal of plan A is to create an impression in your WS's mind that YOU are what he wants, not whatever sleazy whore he's with at the time.

Plan A is designed to plant the seeds of doubt in his mind that he is doing the right thing with the OW, and at the same time, planting seeds in his mind that YOU ARE WHAT HE WANTS.

But you have to limit the time you stay in Plan A - that, I think, is where I blew it. You have to set a definite deadline, say, April 10th, aftr which, you COMPLETELY REMOVE YOURSELF FROM HIS LIFE. That's plan B, and it is designed to protect you.

So if you plan on Plan A - GIVE EVERYTHING. But EXPECT NOTHING, because he is going to take advantage of you and however many OW he may have. And your sanity can only take that for a while - hence - PLAN B at a SPECIFIC TIME after you do plan A.

Look, I know you sometimes discount what I have to say, but just because I lost my marriage doesn't mean that I did not learn how these plans work.

Caren - you are a wonderful, strong woman - you can do what you set your mind to. You can do it.

With greatest respect, David

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Spidey-

I'm sorry you must have posted while I was typing mine. Yeah this is a huge calamity, I agree. I suppose everyones opinions differ. I can't please everyone, although I try to.

-Caren

Gray and David-

I just found that play (Lysistrata) on the web and am reading it, it's not bad so far...it's a comedy?

I like mythology, I don't know a whole lot of Greek mythology, I know more Egyptian mythology...but Greek interests me also.

-Caren

No - it's not a comedy - I was saying that I love the plays of Aristophanes - who DID write some of the best comdies I've ever read. Lys. is more of a drama - it really helps to know what lead to the ladies' decision to withhold SF from their men, but basically, they got tired of the men runnin' around blasting testosterone at everything, slaying each other and ignoring their wives.

The original play was really pretty much....shocking....even by today's standards....but that's a subject of Greek history, not the plays. Anyway - enjoy it! You'll love it!

David

I'm sorry. I knew my POV regarding SF would be controversial. I stuck my neck out because your WH sounds like mine. SF is a primary EN for him that the OW was not fulfilling. I'm a strong believer in developing A PLAN that works for YOU. I might be wrong but I think that Rs such as ours are different. Others may not understand such openness and directness about sex. My H feels most "in love" with me during SF. It is not at all just a physical thing for him. Different does not mean deficient or abnormal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if you plan on Plan A - GIVE EVERYTHING. But EXPECT NOTHING, because he is going to take advantage of you and however many OW he may have. And your sanity can only take that for a while - hence - PLAN B at a SPECIFIC TIME after you do plan A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really, really agree with this. As long as you know this, you will be OK. It's YOUR PLAN. Develop it. Refine it. Then go to PLAN B. PLAN A then PLAN B.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

***I am really upset that some people are indicating it would be OK to continue to give SF to your currently-wayward H! HOW can that be done with ANY kind of self-esteem whatsoever? Maybe SF with my H means something different to me than to others, but ~ good grief!!!***

This is the one part of MB that I have never understood. Aside from the devastation it would do to anyone's self-respect, what about the questions of STDs? There was a long thread on here not long ago about how notorious WS are for NOT using any protection and about how panicked BSs would jump right into bed with them in an effort to "reclaim their territory."

I'm with you, Spidey -- I do not understand how anyone could still have sex with their WS when they *know* that same WS is having sex with somebody else. The physical and emotional risks are absolutely enormous and I cannot fathom why MB philosophy allows and even encourages this.

Sorry for the threadjack, but Caren, this does affect you -- if nothing else, you will have a *much* harder time going to Plan B (and staying there) if you just got out of bed with him.
Mulan

Use a condom.

Not necessarily true about having a harder time going into PLAN B.

My FWH missed me more during PLAN B because no more SF. He really missed me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know it's controversial. I stand by it though. I purposefully did this and am happily recovered in my M.

Mulan - no threadjacking done - I agree with you. There's no way I'd touch my WW after her A's without a lot of assurance of Zero STD's. But I know Caren pretty well, and while I agree, she need's 'protection', if she is doing Plan A, you can't really withhold any EN from your spouse (although even the thought of her and the stuff she was doing was more effective than a cold shower, or thinking about Nancy Reagan...hee hee....)


David

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Spidey - Not to threadjack, but I guess I will. I remember those days when we were all "floundering" away on JFO.

Caren -

Saw your picture on the MB photo thread. You look like a little doll.

You can do whatever plan you wish. But I guarantee you that if you stay in Plan A too long, you will lose your love for him. And for Plan B, you have to be completely ready and determined.

As for the SF - with so many diseases being passed around these days, I would be very careful.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can do whatever plan you wish. But I guarantee you that if you stay in Plan A too long, you will lose your love for him. And for Plan B, you have to be completely ready and determined.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes - I can't agree more. I went way too long on plan A - I was too afraid to go to Plan B. I lost my wife because of that - so MAKE SPECIFIC PLAN TIMELINES - in your case, Caren, I'd give him maybe ONE MONTH. After that protect yourself.

Fortunately for me, I am happier now than I ever was when married to my WW, so even the D isn't bothering me. Maybe that's a result of plan B - at least, it facilitated the happiest life I've ever lived.

David

Condom schmondom!

It can break. You can get warts. You can get crabs. Shoot, c'mon David, you're a medical pro!

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> Condom schmondom!

It can break. You can get warts. You can get crabs. Shoot, c'mon David, you're a medical pro!

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gray, I'm not talking about me! There's no way I'd have anything to do with WW without a lot of tests. But I know Caren. Ok, -----YOU try warning her! Think HERPES....LOL. Desides, when using the term 'protect yourself' I was referring to Plan B.....LMAO

David

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Sorry about the controversy.

I still understand where Caren is coming from. Getting real about this, when there is lots of sexual passion there, it takes lots and lots of discipline not to have sex with your own H if there is any continued contact. It really didn't hurt my situation. I think it helped.

***Not necessarily true about having a harder time going into PLAN B. My FWH missed me more during PLAN B because no more SF. He really missed me***

I was thinking of having SF would make it harder for the *BS* to break their own "addiction" to the WS and go to a cold dark Plan B -- something Caren is having a very hard time doing already.
Mulan

I have always thought that a BS choice to have sexual encounters with their spouse was their choice...
and that certainly certain elements need to be assessed and decisions made if it is safe...and steps taken to make it safe....

but the emotional price is a BS choice..
some BS have had sf all along with their plan A...some haven't...

I never gave it much thought...
and can pretty much support which ever route the BS chooses....unless/untill they change their mind...

ARK

Ark is right. But Caren stopped. Now she needs to decide whether or not going back to having sex with him is worth raising the reading on the flake-o-meter another notch.

I'm not calling you names, Caren, so please don't take it that way. It would just be good for you to get more of those nice, non-fuzzy boundaries that don't move around so damned much. You can't control your WH, but you get to set those boundaries. But if you surrender your ability to set them, you're just the proverbial rag doll dragged behind the pickup truck.

GC