IAL,

It is very clear,probably to many here,that you are at a standstill.Your WW cannot clam up and expect you(please change your ID) to want to work at this marriage if she doesn't go deep into why she had the A,what happened and how to resolve and protect against it again.

"Why try to fix a very old car when there is always a chance to buy a new one".

This is faulty thinking.Yes you could D your WW and immediately go out and find someone new.But ANY new relationship will have issues,problems and flaws.And any new relationship will also bcome "older".Given time.

I can tell you from experience that my biggest hurdle to get over was the fear of being without my WH and being on my own.I am here to tell you that with work,you can overcome this.We are not solely our marriages.You CAN be ok not being married anymore.It would be great to recover your marriage and have it be better than ever but either way,you will be OK.

"At this stage she wants to move on"

Nope,no can do.You are not anywhere near healed to be able to make this assessment.Your WW has a lot more work to do on herself than she may realize.

"I cannot help to feel like I was not good enough for her"

Stop this negative thinking.Adultery is not about YOU not being A or B.It IS a problem with the WS and their inappropriate choices/ways of dealing with their problems,emotions and needs.PERIOD.

"How do you make someone talk when they don't want to discuss the issue anymore?"

This is a big problem for your WW.If she wants to come back to the marriage,then she has to be willing to open herself up.She cannot have it both ways.It is work to talk about this and it's necessary for recovery.

O

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

IMNOTALOSER, just a personal observation and a fairly consistent pattern I have seen around here the last few years, but I think you are at the climax of your recovery. [was that not a godawful sentence?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]

It happened to me around 9 months and seems to hit others in that 8-10 month mark of recovery. It was probably the WORST TIME in my recovery but it was the beginning of the end. It is when the relief of saving your marriage has worn off and ANGER and FURY sets in. It was when I felt like a chump and resented the fact that me, the victim, had to carry all the baggage while my H went on his merry way.

However, I had to go through this phase in order to recover. The anger was healing and natural. Little did I realize that my recovery would soon be complete [or much improved!] after this climatic phase.

I am so very glad that I did stick it out, because I felt just as you feel today. Sick and tired and angry of being stuck with damaged goods. [this was my resentment talking] Because, it wasn't too long before I started feeling love for him again and wasn't so angry anymore.

So please don't give up now. You have come so far and I suspect you are close to the end. But don't try and FORCE yourself to not feel what comes naturally, it is the natural process of recovery. You won't get anywhere by pretending to not be angry.

Come here and post to us when you feel angry.

I'm-NOT-a-loser wrote:
==========================
How do you make someone talk when they don’t want to discuss the issue anymore? She is the typical WW who is VERY afraid to discuss anything about the affair. She feels that anything she says I will use against her if I end up divorcing her. She feels that she said everything that needed to be said. She clams down like the best of the best WWs. She is not a talker!
==========================

You can't make anyone, do anything.

You can simply tell her the truth. If she choses NOT to address the affair, in all its ugliness, and in all its truth, then SHE is consigning the marriage to a slow, painful, death.

Until BOTH of you can proclaim that there is nothing more to be said, then the issue is not resolved.

Whether or not she clams up, or is a talker, or if you are a conflict avoider, or if it rains frogs for the next three weeks - refusing to deal with the issues will cost you BOTH, dearly. Even more than it already has.

All the best,
Gimble

Not a Loser,
I'm a male BS. I could have written most of your posts from the description of your/my wife to the feelings post affair.

Two points:

Melody said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It happened to me around 9 months and seems to hit others in that 8-10 month mark of recovery. It was probably the WORST TIME in my recovery but it was the beginning of the end. It is when the relief of saving your marriage has worn off and ANGER and FURY sets in. It was when I felt like a chump and resented the fact that me, the victim, had to carry all the baggage while my H went on his merry way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a very accurate description of the way I felt. I had two of these peaks 6-8 months out and again 11-12 months out. At the one year point I started to think of it less often. Even if it was palying in the back of my head, it was like the volume had been turned down.

Also, you said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We don’t talk about the affair anymore. Sometimes I have an inclination to do so, but bite my tongue out of respect for my wife. At this stage she wants to move on and she sees no need to go over these issues again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have discovered that affair talk is very upsetting to her. She feels everything that needed to be said has been said and there is no point in discussing the same issues again. I hate to make her unhappy because then I get sad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some men never want to talk about the affair while others, you and me both, need to talk about it. The sooner you talk about it the more likely it is to go away.

My wife refused to answer most of the questions that I had about the affair. She finally consented. Just the fact that she was willing to answer helped me.

Jade,

I realize you want the affair to go away ASAP. What are you willing to do to speed that process.

I wished to God my wife would come to this site to understand that I'm not the only male BS who feels this way.

I'm begging you to not be like my wife and "stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away."

My W also believed that most of the counseling work needed to be borne by me. She of course was over the A so I was the one who needed the counseling to "get over it." Sound familiar.

You need to be an active participant in this process.

How long are you willing to devote to assisting your H in his recovery? a) 6 months b) 12 months c) 3 years d) as long as it takes.

I hope the answer is d. I told my W that from everything I read in books and here at MB it might take up to 2-5 years. Her response. Why should it take that long?

One more thing. If you have told your H all of the truth about your A that is great. What ever you do do not give partial truths or cover up. My W did from day one and it has impacted our recovery immensely. Every new piece of info that comes to light sends us bouncing back close to the beginning.

I wish you both well.

Mac

Not a Loser,
I'm a male BS. I could have written most of your posts from the description of your/my wife to the feelings post affair.

Two points:

Melody said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It happened to me around 9 months and seems to hit others in that 8-10 month mark of recovery. It was probably the WORST TIME in my recovery but it was the beginning of the end. It is when the relief of saving your marriage has worn off and ANGER and FURY sets in. It was when I felt like a chump and resented the fact that me, the victim, had to carry all the baggage while my H went on his merry way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a very accurate description of the way I felt. I had two of these peaks 6-8 months out and again 11-12 months out. At the one year point I started to think of it less often. Even if it was palying in the back of my head, it was like the volume had been turned down.

Also, you said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We don’t talk about the affair anymore. Sometimes I have an inclination to do so, but bite my tongue out of respect for my wife. At this stage she wants to move on and she sees no need to go over these issues again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have discovered that affair talk is very upsetting to her. She feels everything that needed to be said has been said and there is no point in discussing the same issues again. I hate to make her unhappy because then I get sad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some men never want to talk about the affair while others, you and me both, need to talk about it. The sooner you talk about it the more likely it is to go away.

My wife refused to answer most of the questions that I had about the affair. She finally consented. Just the fact that she was willing to answer helped me.

Jade,

I realize you want the affair to go away ASAP. What are you willing to do to speed that process.

I wished to God my wife would come to this site to understand that I'm not the only male BS who feels this way.

I'm begging you to not be like my wife and "stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away."

My W also believed that most of the counseling work needed to be borne by me. She of course was over the A so I was the one who needed the counseling to "get over it." Sound familiar.

You need to be an active participant in this process.

How long are you willing to devote to assisting your H in his recovery? a) 6 months b) 12 months c) 3 years d) as long as it takes.

I hope the answer is d. I told my W that from everything I read in books and here at MB it might take up to 2-5 years. Her response. Why should it take that long?

One more thing. If you have told your H all of the truth about your A that is great. What ever you do do not give partial truths or cover up. My W did from day one and it has impacted our recovery immensely. Every new piece of info that comes to light sends us bouncing back close to the beginning.

I wish you both well.

Mac

It is very clear,probably to many here,that you are at a standstill.Your WW cannot clam up and expect you(please change your ID) to want to work at this marriage

I have read the MB boards for a long time. She has also read the boards and knows many of the principles. She tells me to count my blessings because she is a pretty darn good FWW compared to the others. She says that there is no contact with OM and that she harbors no more romantic feelings. IN addition she did not try to elope with OM. Therefore, I should be happy with her efforts.


if she doesn't go deep into why she had the A,what happened and how to resolve and protect against it again.

The reason varies from day to day. Sometimes it is her upbringing, that I did not pay attention to her, or that she acted basically like a horny person who wanted to get it on (cake eating). There were no major problems in the marriage, in fact SF was still going strong. I think she simply got bored with the routine of a long term marriage.

We are not solely our marriages.You CAN be ok not being married anymore.It would be great to recover your marriage and have it be better than ever but either way,you will be OK.

I have been married most of my life. She is a great wife; very supportive. I would hate to be alone, but in reality I don't need anyone else to be happy since I have good self-esteem.


It happened to me around 9 months and seems to hit others in that 8-10 month mark of recovery. It was probably the WORST TIME in my recovery but it was the beginning of the end. It is when the relief of saving your marriage has worn off and ANGER and FURY sets in. It was when I felt like a chump and resented the fact that me, the victim, had to carry all the baggage while my H went on his merry way.

I hope you are right. I feel she got away with murder and now she has ended with a husband who is even more caring than before. Trust me I cared for her quite a bit before the A.

You can't make anyone, do anything.
You can simply tell her the truth. If she choses NOT to address the affair, in all its ugliness, and in all its truth, then SHE is consigning the marriage to a slow, painful, death.

When WW broke up with OM he warned her that I would say things that would make her feel guilty. OM was an adulterer before having the affair with my wife (surprise, surprise) and according to him his ex-wife and children made him feel very guilty. He told my wife not to stay in the marriage because I would make her feel guilty by bringing the affair up for discussion. So I am somewhat pressure not to have affair talk anymore. That is over and done!


I wished to God my wife would come to this site to understand that I'm not the only male BS who feels this way.
I'm begging you to not be like my wife and "stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away."

I agree!

I'm-NOT-a -loser wrote:
======================================
When WW broke up with OM he warned her that I would say things that would make her feel guilty. OM was an adulterer before having the affair with my wife (surprise, surprise) and according to him his ex-wife and children made him feel very guilty. He told my wife not to stay in the marriage because I would make her feel guilty by bringing the affair up for discussion. So I am somewhat pressure not to have affair talk anymore. That is over and done!
======================================

Ah, so the other man is now passing on instructions into your marriage as to your conduct. Are you going to be manipulated by the likes of HIM?

The only pressure here, is your avoidance of the conflict you must face in your marriage.

All the best,
Gimble

Not a loser.....

This is tough; while not in the identical situation, mine is very similar. My WW has been in the midst of an affair that destroyed our home, family and finances; during her involvement with the OM I felt I was forced to move on. Now she wants to come back and I too feel degraded and worthless because she had all her needs met by this OM and seemed to not care what this affair did to our family. Some of the others who have posted here may not understand how you feel but I do.

It is a frightening prospect to face your life alone but you can if you have to. It is frightening also to have to live your life filled with resentment and stagnation but you don't have too. I have received counseling and it does make a huge difference.

My only input here is to ask you if disdain has developed between your WW and the OM? While she may not want to talk about the affair and why it happened and give all the details....I think it is critical that you find out why the affair ended. If there is no disdain between your WW and the OM this makes any decisions you consider harder.

Some BS of an affair often need more than just the ending of the affair. We must accept anything that we did that contributed to the meltdown. Most importantly need affirmation that the WS has also addressed their weaknesses and that another A will not occur. Beyond that we can only accept the affair and work on recovery......sometimes we need help and most important to our self image we have to believe that is OK.

INL,
if I tell my wife about what I am thinking she will become very unhappy. She wants to save the marriage very badly. However IMO she may not be doing it the right way or perhaps I am not receptive to her methods.
L,


This is how it is with my WW. This is why we are seeing MC. to help bring things in a good way. My W will not even broach the subject of A. It has been 2 months now. Her A was a 1 time thing, which makes it easier for me to swallow. I am not sure if I am ready to forgive her, but I know I will probably never forget. I look at the stats, over 50% of M have infidelity in them, and the divorce rate is also close to 50%. Second marriages drop to a 35% chance of survival. So why not stick around with what you have spent so many years working towards.The odds are better that you will have a better marriage. Here is a quote from a thread I read when I first started reading this site, I printed it and try to read it everyday, because it is how I feel.
__________________________________________________
This is why, the vows do not say that you stay until you don't love each other anymore or until you are tired. Rather, when these situations arise, you work together to remedy them and come to a solution rather than dissolving the relationship. If a marital relationship is dissolved when the chips get down-because it is much easier than fixing it- then what is left to differentiate it from merely dating?
__________________________________________________

So, even thought my W will not talk about anything regarding the A, at least right now, I plan on sticking it out and doing whatever it takes.
The memory is here for life, it just depends on whether I choose to let it control me. Most days right now is really hard. but their is always tommorrow. I love my wife unconditionaly!!! so that means getting past her selfishness and failure and moving on to a better and hopefully stronger marriage. I meant it when I said my vows, even though she strayed from hers, doesn't mean I have to give up on mine! someone once said, swallow your pride, it won't choke you.
Have faith in what you read here. It has helped,especially on the down days.

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: hurtnheart ]</small>

INAL,

You may want to consider the idea of putting your thoughts and feelings in a letter and giving it to your W for her to read when she is alone. This has the advantage of fulfilling your need to express yourself and her need not to have you in front of her pounding incessantly at her with questions about her affair. Sure it is nowhere near as good as having an open and honest conversation, but there is more of a chance to have your W lower her defenses and absorb your message to her. You can even post it here so that we can critique it and help you delete any LB [love busters] before you give it to her. Please think about it.

TMCM

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

^^^

^

OK,

Change the name, recovery starts with you believing in yourself.

Most everyone on this site can tell you how bad my situation was and is..

I never thought I could move on, I never really worked my Plan A and never really understood Plan B..But I knew I loved my wife as I'm sure you do. Trust takes time and it has to be something you really want to work on, yes you will have doubts and maybe even have those day's you wake up and wonder WTF am I doing here.. Well your wife woke up today and is still next to you and be happy for that.

I walked in and caught my wife on the phone talking to OM and that very same night I took my three children and left her. I had a restraing order put on her and since that day 8 weeks ago she is still not allowed near me or the kids and I am back in the house.

My ww wants to come back home and has given up the Om because she feels she has had and done enough, I for one in my sitch am being very careful this time sround with recovery.

My ww wants me to forgive her and help her through this, so wake up and help your wife through it and I'm sure she will help you.

It feels horrible thinking of what the Spouses have done to us, and how could they do it, what were they thinking, they are heartless, well they are not heartless only misguided.

I for one spent the last ten months standing by and watching my ww destroy herself and her chance at being a mother or having and custody of the children, and now I will let her chase me.

I am back up to my weight range, working out doing my martial arts and feeling and looking good. WW even told me I look HOT well I may look HOT but she wont be getting burned by me anytime soon.

I love comingh home to my kids with no stress no fights no hate.

Count your blessing's and don't give up...Show your ww she is worth every minute you spend with her and in time...time you will heal and realize how lucky you really are..

LOVE is not having to say you are sorry...

" LOVE STORY "

Sorry but I just watched it with my kids and yes well cried..damn Ryan O'Niel

Good Luck and hang in there ok..

I will be checking up on you....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />