Well the last two days have been anything but plan B, plan whatever.
Yesterday my 4yo son had a doctor appointment because he has been recently diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Well at the doctor my son is laying on the floor, saying he hates his life, and wants his Daddy to love his Mommy. He won't be better until his Daddy comes home forever. I start crying...and the doctor asks for another therapist to come in and talk to our son and the doctor calls my WH on the ship. He explains to him the severity of the situation and my WH starts crying saying he is sorry. Then he says that since he is on restriction he can't leave or do anything about it. Well he COULD HAVE when he wasn't on restriction. Well they wanted to put my 4yo inpatient in the hospital because they were worried about his safety. Alex agreed to be safe (as much as a 4 yo can understand) and I requested that he not be hospitalized. I just can't get my head around him being in the hospital, and I don't think we need that type of intervention at this point. So we get home....

About 8pm last night WH calls to check on our son, and also ask about our tax money. I had agreed to discuss it and come up with a reasonable amount for the both of us. Well when he called both kids were already asleep and we started talking about the taxes. It started off more as an argument because he wants more then I think he should have. Then when I was explaining to him that I need money for moving, to get a place for the kids to live, to pay for help to move, etc. WH mentioned that after his 30 days restriction is over he will have nothing to do so if I need help moving, or driving the truck he wants to help. He then informed me that the OW was driving to Indiana at the time, and she will be living there for 3 months until he gets out of the Navy and then he might move to Indiana or he doesn't know what he will do. I told him that he realizes the only way we can reconcile our marriage is if he agrees to NC with OW. He said 'I haven't talked to her today'. I laughed a bit. Well by the end of the conversation we were both crying. He was asking me WHY things were like they were at the end of our relationship, why I didn't want to do anything anymore, why we didn't talk, why we didn't have SF. I started explaining to him my feelings and why I felt things happened, and apologized. I told him that it upset me that he would always go to the movies without me, and without asking me if I wanted to go. He said that he wanted me to go with him everytime but he knew he was seeing movies I didn't want to see, but that if I would go, even if I would fall asleep in the theater (I did that a lot) that holding me in his arms would be worth the money. He was crying saying that he regretted starting an affair but now that so much has happened he doesn't feel like he can go back. I was crying saying that I know how good it can be and that I missed our family and missed how happy we were. He kept saying stop crying, I am not worth it...
We talked until about 10pm.

Then today he called me about 5pm and we talked for like 30 minutes. He said how tired he was because I kept him up talking. He said one of us always keeps him up. I said one of who, I never talk to you? He said you or OW. I just got quiet. He said 'sorry, I didn't mean it like that'

He asked once about the tax money (I gave him about $500 less then he 'wants). We mostly talked about the fact that he can't trust me because I told the OW the times we had SF while he was 'with her' and that before he felt we could ever attempt to reconcile or him have NC he would have to trust me. I told him that I understands he doesn't trust someone who has tried so hard to be honest. He asked me if I was still interested in doing the MC on the phone with Steve H. I said I don't know. Then he got upset and started saying how he knows I want him to come home and be a family, but it just can't happen. He started getting grouchy, asking how much of the way our son feels is because of things I say in front of him. I told him that I never talk bad about him in front of our children. He would say something stupid about how he misses me because I laugh at his jokes, but that is the only reason. Then he would say he is sorry he said that just to 'piss me off'.
He said that 'if he decides' to be with me he wants OW to be OK with it, and if he decides to be with the OW he wants me to be okay with it, and if he decides to be with neither of us, he wants us both to be okay with it. I just said 'yea, okay' Whatever that is all about.
I am a mess. I love him damnit! I feel so sick to my stomach. I can't do this anymore. I need to say SOMETHING.....
I am moving to Maine in mid-April, and I can't accept the fact that I have to go without him...

I feel like OW is in Indiana, WH and I are in Virginia. Now is my chance. He is on restriction on the ship for 30 days and can't leave. I want nothing else then to have my family back. I feel so ill. I keep trying to lie to myself and say I can handle it, I can be strong, I can be without him. I can't...
We were so darn happy! He will say 'remember this' and say a memory. I will say yes, why do those times have to end? And he says, "Danielle you look at it the wrong way,. no matter if we are together or not, remember those times and be happy"

I can't...I need him....he is my husband!!!
I told him I needed to let him go and go cook dinner, and he said he would call me later tonight.
I can't do this anymore, my kids need their Dad, I need my husband, and my family.
There has to be some way to make him understand....
I feel so ill, and depressed. I can't take this life....not like this....not without my family.
Danielle

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

{{Dani}} why are you letting him do this to you? Don't let him talk about OW to you anymore, ok? Sorry about your DS, that is really terrible. Put your focus on the kids for now Dani.

***We mostly talked about the fact that he can't trust me because I told the OW the times we had SF while he was 'with her' and that before he felt we could ever attempt to reconcile or him have NC he would have to trust me.***

Dani, this is the most outrageous statement I have ever heard. If someone else said it, would you think it made any sense at all?

This one sentence ought to make it clear to you that you aren't dealing with a rational human being here.

Your responsibility right now is not to talk this WS into being a husband.

Your responsibility right now is to protect yourself and your children.

Your WS is not going to protect either one of you.

That leaves YOU as the protector.

And that is what Plan B is for. It is to protect you and protect your children from the outrageous trash that is spewing out of your WS's mouth right now. Saying crap like that is nothing short of emotional abuse -- and it is up to YOU to put a stop to it by removing yourself and your son from its poisonous influence.

Plan B. Get help here. Get someone in real life to stay with you for a while. But you will NEVER feel better until you remove yourself from the poison your WS is injecting into your life, and he will never wake up as long as you keep letting him do this to you.

Good luck. You can do this. You will amazed at what happens once you do.
Mulan

He just called, and I explained to him that I needed to separate myself because it was to hurtful to communicate with him while he is hurting our family. I told him that I was sorry for the things I had done in the past, and I had changed, and he acknowledged the change. I told him once he was committed to NC we would discuss our relationship. He said he wants a divorce, and that "I have been taking care of the kids all this time so he could find a women, now when we get to Maine he will take care of the kids so I can find a man. I told him 'no thank you'
He said that he can be the Father he needs to be to the kids. He can stay here until they fall asleep at night, and come back when they wake up. He just can't be with me, because a mans #1 need is to be loved, and the OW makes him feel loved like I never have.......
*knife in the heart*

He said that I just am so difficult, why we can't just 'talk'
I said, please have a good night, I have to go, and hung up.

He called back twice and the second time left a message saying
"I knew this is what you were getting at, it's your way or no way. Basically it's your way or your not going to talk to me or your not going to give me the tax money I want. If I don't come back to you then your not going to do anything for me. I see how it is, whatever"

See, the tax money is a big issue on top of all of this. He wanted about $500 more then I agreed to give him. He keeps asking for the 'rest of the money'. He says he can't trust me until I give it to me. Basically one of his tactics to get what he wants.

What do I do? I need to get a grip, I know it...
Danielle

Dani - don't pay any attention to him! (Yeah, I know, lot of good advice coming from me!) - you aren't dealing with a sane person right now - he's an alien, and you need to remember that everytime you see him.

Protect YOU and your KIDS - and let HIM deal with the fallout - he'll feel it someday.

Dani - I feel for you - I can totally relate.

Take care...

David

First and foremost- you need to understand that he is playing Mind games with you. He is trying to control you to the ninth degree. I am saying this from experience- my H said almost the EXACT SAME WORDS to me during his A. IMHO he is contacting you and being more friendly for two reasons
1. to get the tax money
2. because he is on restriction and he is bored-sorry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

If I were you I would tell him that there is no extra tax money as it was a child tax credit and since you have the children he has no rights to it.

I am so frustrated right now because I see what games he is playing- the whole he can not trust you bit- he is trying to turn this around on you and you are biteing! Stop it girl- stay strong and stop letting him play these games with you. You have the power right now- his fantasy land will eventually end- and he knows it so he wants to make sure that he has you strung along as long as possible. Go into plan B- go dark- or at the very least when he brings up the OW say "I see no good coming from this conversation, goodnight" and then hang up- eventually he will stop talking about her- until you do that you are just adding wood to their fire.
I am sorry to hear about your son- and you WH antics. You deserve so much more. Hang in there! I have been where you are now- I did not handle it well- and now I am in even deeper- please do not make the same mistakes I did.

I posted to you a day or two ago in regards to ending his fantasy of the two of you being "friends".

I still think that it's important for you to make a stand on that. I truly believe it will help him clarify the choices that he is making.

It's obvious that OW worked her magic on him between the two conversations. He is very conflicted and firms up his stance after each contact with her.

I don't think he really understands that ending the marriage is in fact an ENDING. He isn't clearly comprehending that he is truly going to lose you in entirely if he continues on down this path.

Consider taking [ifriendship[/i] off the table in order to clarify your position.

When was the last time he saw a medical doctor, btw? I'm no professional, but he sounds like he needs medication. It's possible that the right meds could help him clarify his thought process as well. I know he has a family history of mental illness, but if he's resistant to seeing a psych doctor, maybe he would consider seeing a medical one. {????)

Dani,

I figure if I recommend you stop talking to him you won't so the next best thing is to tell him to tape his own convos and then listen to them. Let him hear how he sounds to others. That fog babble is thick on that ship. Hope the other guys aren't choking from it.

As for your son's conidition, I am truly sorry. The WS is FULLY responsible for it. He wants to watch the kids? He is the one making them sick. How can you trust him? I would let him know that until he can show he is trustworthy he isn't. As for you watching the children, you have been doing that and being a much better parent since you are there for the children vs his choices of being with an OW.

As for his wanting to be with the OW, that's a sure sign he isn't safe t/b around the children. The way he acts when he is with the OW makes his character highly questionnable. You are not the only one to see that. Let him know that also.

Of course it w/b better to do this via a good plan B letter. But you will have to get the strength to NOT let him get to you.

Know he will say a few nice and promising things just to get what he wants and then whamp you upside the head as a way to thank you for allowing him to manipulate you. If you don't want to get that bump on you heart, then DON'T give him the chance to walk and stomp all over you.

L.

Dani --

I like the idea (mentioned in an earlier post) of having a friend or family member stay with you for a week or two. They will help you keep Plan B in place.

Why, in Plan B, do you keep picking up the phone? Why do you feel you have to re-explain yourself and your choices to him? Yes, keep the recorded phone messages -- but don't answer.

He tells you that you're making it "your way or no way." But that's not true. You are constructing your choices in the aftermath of his large-scale unilateral decisions. He insists on the right to changes "wives" -- then you have right to decide whether you consider him your friend, or someone you want to talk to.

Dani, I'm sorry you are experiencing such pain. My heart goes out to you.

I just want to say that if there's one thing I've learned though this, it's that I'm waaaay stronger than I thought I was. Sometimes it just seems to be too much to bear, but y'know what, ya just gotta keep going.

Nothing lasts for ever. All things pass.

This is a horrible, nasty time right now, but it is not forever. All you have to do is keep going. Take a deep breath, remember that this is a temporary situation, and take another step.

You CAN do this.

dewt

Oh yeah... I almost forgot...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong> We mostly talked about the fact that he can't trust me because I told the OW the times we had SF while he was 'with her' and that before he felt we could ever attempt to reconcile or him have NC he would have to trust me. I told him that I understand he doesn't trust someone who has tried so hard to be honest. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW, I hearby appoint you with the 'comeback of the week' award. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Good one, Dani.

I second what Dewt said... "You CAN do this!"

I don't think any one will ever figure out why some of us get these trials and others get to skate through life, but that's just the way it is.

Many WS (and I've read this from many WHs including my own) have said "it's your way or no way" -- well that's simply not true

YOU are NOT a puppet. You need not follow the dictates and whims of the puppeteer . . . which is, in this case your WH.

You are actually responding to HIS choices . . .

It was HIS choice to start an A.
It was HIS choice to remove himself from (and his protection for) the marriage, your kids and you.
It is HIS choice to continue the A.
It is HIS choice to continue to hurt you and the kids.
It is HIS choice to go to Indiana.
It is HIS choice to seek a divorce.

His choices, bad as they are, are dictating your choices and what you will do.

Yes, it means that you will have to give up dreams and let them die. It means that you MAY end up living a life that you never wanted (Who of us ever wanted to be a BS?) It means that you need to dig deep and find the strength you have to get through this -- and if you believe in God, to lean on him (quite frankly, for me right now, HE is my only refuge) to help you through.

Taking his phone calls only harms you.
Dancing, or trying to dance, to his tune, only harms you and your son.

Right now the man you knew has been abducted by aliens and a selfish child has been placed in his body. A selfish child who thinks very little, if at all, of the damage, hurt and pain he is causing you and your son. You aren't talking to or dealing with the man you fell in love with, your dealing with this alien who really can't hear you -- he can only hear the thoughts of getting to his objective.

Yes there is at times confusion. But he NEEDS those times, for that's when his old self peeks through .... but in what many sound strange, when you beg, deal with him, let him pull your strings, the alien becomes strong again.

Let me put this another way -- which is more blunt, and I'm sorry if I offend, but I am hoping you see what I am getting at.

You and your son are the twin towers and your husband is Bin Laden.

So what are you going to do?

You didn't ask for this war, but here it is. You need to stop talking to the enemy and giving him ammunition and the map of your defenses. You need to protect yourself and your son.

You need to be strong and show that you will no longer let the puppeteer pull your strings.

Sometime when that strength is shown, and a BS get's on with their life, goes to plan B and protects themselves and their family, it is the shock a WS needs to bring him/her back.'

At other times, they are so far gone that nothing will bring them back -- and plan B allows you to regain your strength and see a better life, without him.

But you need to end contact .... that alien already has too many routes into your defenses.

way2

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Danielle... You mentioned moving to Maine. Do you have a family/support system up there? I'm also from New England, just curious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We mostly talked about the fact that he can't trust me because I told the OW the times we had SF while he was 'with her' and that before he felt we could ever attempt to reconcile or him have NC he would have to trust me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, what's he smokin"? I want some of that! (JK) Pretty ballsey that he could talk about trusting you when he was the one betraying you.

Hang in there, girl!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong>
Yesterday my 4yo son had a doctor appointment because he has been recently diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Well at the doctor my son is laying on the floor, saying he hates his life, and wants his Daddy to love his Mommy. He won't be better until his Daddy comes home forever. I start crying...and the doctor asks for another therapist to come in and talk to our son and the doctor calls my WH on the ship.
Danielle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh dear...This is very serious.

You need to go to a firm Plan B as soon as possible...for YOU and for your son.

You instincts are telling you to keep talking to your H...they are telling you that if can just say the "right" thing your H will come around.

Your instincts are out of whack right now. And they will stay out of whack until you go into DARK Plan B. You need some time away from your H... a period of no contact with him BEFORE you will be able to make logical decisions here.

You H is in a fog...and you are too. You need to go into a Plan B.

Dani girl in VA,

First, very sorry that your feeling so low and being treated this way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

However, the way in which you are Feeling right now is Exactly the reason you are supposed to be staying "DarK".

Sadly, if you continue to play his "games" by his Rules......then this is the cycle that will go on indefinitely . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

No, you can't make or force Him to do what you want or Need.

On the other hand, neither can he make you.

Sorry for this 2 x 4, but:
Like it or not.....IF your Still caught up in his games / drama, its up to you to Remove yourself from it.

I know it sounds cold....but if you don't look out for YOU , Who will??
Certainly not a WS or the OP.

Wishing you success in finding the strength and resolve to do what is in YOUR best interests!

Please stick too it!

We can tell you this...If you keep breaking the plan, it is Guaranteed to Fail!
And that's the truth.

He is not getting his needs met by OW right now, so he is depending on you to fill that gap...don't do it!!!

Allow him to miss you.

IF you have to talk with him, remind him you will NEVER be OK with him leaving you for an OW, and you will NEVER be friends as long as she is in the picture...you will NEVER just TALK like friends as long as SHE is around...and that is HIS choice...not you. When he aks again, "Why do you have to be this way?", say to him, "I am not making the choice."

Thank you ALL for the replies, I am reading them over and over....

It is almost like (in some sick way) when he calls and reminds me of special times we spent together he is feeding my needs. It is almost as though I get to a point where I need him to meet my needs. When he says how special it felt when I fell asleep in his arms at the theater or something like that I don't even think WHY he is saying it or what his motive is. I just get all mushy. I can't let him do this to me.

Yes, my family lives in Maine. I plan on moving mid April, I am just trying to get things straight. I will more then likely be moving in with my aunt for awhile, until I can get myself settled. I feel bad having to do that, especially with my DS having such a hard time, but she has expressed care and concern and told me that she understands and wants to help.

My son had to be picked up from school today for having a rage in class when asked to participate in an art activity. I felt so ill picking him up. I wanted to call WH so badly and say "PLEASE help me darnit!"

He just tried to call and I didn't answer. Now he called the OW (I know this without him telling me).
I WILL NOT answer his call tonight, I WILL NOT! I keep telling myself that.

One thing that keeps running through my head that he said yesterday is....
I said something about our family and his response as to why he couldn't end the affair is that "I am just having too much fun right now" Well thanks!

This is how you get hooked into it -- get hooked into his game. The point of Plan B is also not to let him fill YOUR emotional needs. You keep going to him for your fix, and he keeps coming to you to get his. It's a downward spiral.

By being in Plan B, you will eventually get your ENs met elsewhere. You need to right now, because every time he gives you a piece of a candy, there's a nasty metal hook somewhere in it that you swallow along with the candy. Don't swallow the bait.

Don't feel bad about letting your sympathetic aunt help you. You need help. Your son needs help. This rollercoaster isn't helping him any. If he sees you calm and strong, that will no doubt help him. Contact with the alien is likely to be making things worse -- he gets the illusion of a father, and a reminder of what a father was, without the reality, or access to any reality.

AHHHH!
So he calls and calls and calls and calls...I mean like 15 times.
I finally answer and basically say 'Hello?' He says 'Can you transfer me the tax money?' I said 'I have given you all that I am able to give you, the remainder I need to provide for our children'
Then he says 'be respectful and do what I say'
I hung up.

He kept calling, I didn't answer. Even if I try to limit it to business related, I can't even do that in his state of mind.

He left me a message saying "Well obviously you can't respect me and do what I say and talk to me, so therefore I am not going to do ANYTHING for you or the kids, sorry"

Now he is calling again, 3 missed calls.....
See, he wants more money, and he is supposed to give me his separation orders from his command so that the Navy will pay to move us. He is using this as a 'you give me the money, I will give you the orders'
I think I am going to have to try and contact his command to see if they will give me the orders..
I called them before and since WHs separation leave had not been approved yet the orders were not available. He told me he submitted the leave last week. I don't like games....
The problem is, I already have given him as much tax money as I am able to. He wants more, and I am sorry, but I have to take care of the kids first. I told him that and he said 'I don't give a **** about your rent money, I want my tax money'


If I give you the noose will you hang me?

Danielle

Oh dear...
So I will give you the details of the tax money.
We got back 5 thousand dollars. I gave WH 2 thousand. I agreed to pay off a co-loan that we had and he agreed to pay off a co-loan that we had. (We had two small loans that we had planned to pay off). The loan he agreed to pay was like $411 or something close to that. The one I agreed was like $571. So I gave him the $2000. I kept $3000, and paid the loan I agreed to pay. The reason I kept more then half was exactly as I told him, I have the two children, and I have all of the household bills. He is living on the ship, for free.
His account was overdrawn by $200 when he got the $2000 so he was left with $1800. He paid $400 on his credit card that he had run up. So he had $1400. It was in his account about 30 minutes ago...until he got mad that I wouldn't give him the $500 he wanted. Guess what? He didn't pay the loan he agreed to pay, he transferred the entire $1400 to THE OWs BANK ACCOUNT!
Whatever....
So now I am wondering, when he gets paid Monday night, (I still have access to his paycheck if I get to his account quicker then he does when he gets paid), do I transfer the 411 from his paycheck to the loan and pay it off like he had agreed, or do I just act like I don't care? When he calls next do I say 'THAT is why I am not giving you another red cent!'?

I swear, this is one big game to him.

Danielle

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>