Bob,

When I was startying recovery I was trying to look at every possible reason why I had the affair, I wanted to understand why and how I could have ever gotten to where I did. How I became such a mess.

I know that my downward spiral started after my last surgery, the 3rd surgery in 6 months. I do not blame my surgeries, but I didn't cope well after and fell into a depression. i do not blame my depression, but I DO blame my frame of mind on the depression. It allowed me to JUSTIFY my reasons and help me make MY choice. No one to blame but me in the end.

But what made me realize it was a domino effect starting with the last surgery, was something I read in "torn Asunder" and maybe it relates to Squid too,so I wanted to post it. I know we are different people, but both of us went to men who were slimeball, pieces of [censored] - serial adulterers, ugly [censored]. We had different situations, but maybe our coping mechanism is the same...as you speak of her having mid-life issues, and nana's illness...

There is 3 paragraphs, I only copied the last 2

COPING WITH TRANSITION IN THE LIFE CYCLE

"...Such events as a change in job, a drop in income, a cross country move, a pregnancy, a health crisis, or a death can make an individual vulnerable to infidelity, especially if entitlement is a part of his/her coping style. It is during periods of destabilization and transition that a relationship with another partner looks most appealing.

When life circumstances upset or destabilize a person's life, an affair is often an attempt to restructure or stabilize his/her life, especially from an emotional or nuturance point of view. But the price of such "stabilization" is high - too high. And it rarely provides a permanent stability; it's a false solutions to a real problem."

I have come to understand now, after 3 months, that I did not COPE with these major changes to myself. I lost my uterus, I had 3 surgeries, my H couldn't be there for me....and the downward coping cycle began till I hit bottom.

Maybe Squid couldn't cope with turning 40 and feeling older, scared of nana's illness and even though the rest of the world can handle it, in her mind it was too much..and she started on a self destrutive coping cycle as I did...

Good thing we have our knights in shining armor (you and sprint) to throw the rope in, and help us cope. Still to this day I wish I hadn't been caught, but that I had fessed up on my own and been honest and told Sprint on my own....but I was stuck in this addictive, self coping behavior...

But she needs to look at these things so SHE knows why, so SHE can recognize the signs in her, if she ever starts to fall down into the cycle again. She needs to know herself.

-ds

Your fear that discussions with her are going to end in conflict are what's keeping you from being intimate with your W...THIS IS YOUR CHANCE...this is your chance to do it differently, to learn a new way...to avoid conflict by FACING a fear rather than hiding from it.

SHMILey

I am not avoiding or fearing conflict.

It is ill timed sadness and introspection that I would avoid.

Squid went to visit her mom today and she was very ill. Skin on bone, in and out of consciousness.

I took Squid to lunch to cheer her up.

Squid told me she renewed her unworthiness of my love for her every day.

She held my hand and said "I love you. Thank you for loving me. I am unworthy of you."

I said " baby, we shall focus on restoring your self worth."

Her head's a mess. Heart's a mess. But I needed to wait for this opportunity.

Wasn't ignoring you Shmiley. I just have strong opinions regarding the appropriateness and effect of strong R talk in our current complex sit.

Thanks for your words. I'll chew all replies over later.

"It may feel like punishment to you, however, this is a necessary protection for me. This is a consequence of the affair."

Simple and direct.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey BP,

Coincidnece? Check out the logic in this thread and see if it's the same script???

Racer X's "I'm not worthy of your love..."

What an interesting day.

Had a WONDERFUL lunch as posted earlier.

Squid told me she loved me very much and thanked me for loving her.

Tonight she asked me how I could invest so much in her happiness when its a lost cause.

She said " I fvcked up any chance of our ever being happy again".

I replied " Thats not true. When you had your affair I thought we'd never be happy again either, but LOOK where study and smart friends have gotten us already !

MB has a plan for BS and also for WS. ALl we need to do is study. I know tns of FWS who are living unreservedly happy loving and fulfilled lives because they did the right thinsg after an affair. And we have a great start- we love each other and want to be happy."

"OK. Tell me tomorrow. Thanks you again for loving me".

Man Oh Man.

I need to print off some threads. the time is coming where Squid is becoming receptive to learning the message of her affair.

That is GREAT bob - maybe she will come visit here. I know when you are the FWW, you feel very labelled, very judged - maybe here as she lets it all out with you she can see that she wont be labelled or judged. Or maybe it's best it stays a place just for you?

I am happy to see you might be reaching a point where she is ready!

WHOOHOOO

-ds

SHMIley, not sure. The 'not worthy of love' bit is post affair I think rather than causative like racers.

Big change in Squid today. I pray she starts intelligent analysis now.

DS I have never lied on here. My only reservation for Squid reading my stuff is that she may be shocked to see how low her affair dredged me back in the day.

I have never misrepresented myself or her to my knowledge and I would love Squid to join our community. She'd get such help I know....

Oh Bob - I never meant that you lied. I meant that maybe since it was a place you came for advice and help, that maybe you wanted to keep it that way - sometimes spouses prefer it to be a place where they can talk by themselves. I know I am not like that - I would love if Sprint would come back - maybe one day he will.

I also have never heard you direspect, or talk rudely about Squid - that's one of the major things I have always admired about you - the way that no matter how you felt - you still held her in high regard.

I know I would welcome her into the community for sure!

-ds

Its OK DS, I wasnt inferring your did say I lied. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just pointing out that the truths I have posted here hold no fears for me if Squid read them other than she may be very hurt about something that happened a long time ago now if she saw my devastation on d-day and thereafter.

I would welcome Squid here, apart from the odd vent I say nothing here that I don't also say to Squid.

Hi, Bob.

I think it would be good for Squid to come and read here. It very well may be the catalyst she needs to understand why she has to make such a fundamental change.

I believe that a marriage can recover from an affair, but for the marriage to thrive, BOTH spouses must understand their own contributions to the condition of the marriage, pre-affair.

You can meet needs and affair-proof a marriage, but just like one of Harley's examples in SAA, the former wayward spouse may never apologize.

In my opinion, true reconciliation comes only after both spouses have taken full responsibility for their actions, and manage to come to terms with them.

I believe that you will never allow yourself to be a major conflict avoider again, Bob. I also believe that once your wife understands and addresses her major issue, that the two of you can find a place in your lives for each other that neither of you has ever known before. I believe that your marriage can be one of the 'good' ones.

You are on a good track, Bob.

God bless,
Gimble

Hi Gimble

Somthin's up- this will be a big weekend.

Squid's hit her low spot for guilt and it sparalysing her happiness.

She is ready I think to learn to grow.

I won't choke her on it but I'll raise Christian MC and the Harley's methods with her as ways to get through her shame.

And we'll pray a lot.

You know its bizarre how many times I've felt 'somthing in the air' and vented on here only to find another step occur in our recovery. Like I'm being readied for the next step.

All blessings my friend. And thanks again.

ps and no I will never avoid conflict again.

Are you familiar with the book, Hosea? This web-page offers a fairly good studious look at Hosea.

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=967

I recommend it to everyone.

Caliie I read Hosea, but not STUDIED it in the context of marriage.

My concordance says Hosea's more about israel and forgiveness than it is marriage.

But I'll read when I get a chance, thanks.

Chicken or the egg...

You'll discount Racer's thread because of the timing? huh?

My thought is that these thoughts Squid is having are not new...she is finally being honest... my thought is, this is her general attitude about your M, that she doesn't feel worthy. And if that is the case, according to the logic in Racer's thread, this sets her up to sabotaging the M and perhaps another A.

Please don't dismiss her words as a remorseful FWW or the timing of htem, she feels bad THIS TIME in her life...from the way you wrote, this may be the attitude that has permeated her M life.

I'l ask again...Why do you want an apology?

I think you answered it on your other thread...

(Sure..you'll answer it for someone else, but not me..sniff, sniff...)

I want an apology because it would be particularly hard and uninstinctive for Squid to do for me and the gesture value would be immense for me. It would also remove any doubt I have that Squid is NOT sorry for her affair.