:::::AN, I think it IS the reason.

Yeah, Me too. The more I've thought about it the more it's made sense. And it's an entirely new idea to me. Someone will have to run it by Noodle as her boundries concept is also very good - but I'm blown away by your concept of serving!!!

::::I need to interject something so you know where I am coming from. Earlier on, you mentioned that you don’t share my faith. That is OK with me. I truly don’t hold that against you at all. But if you want me to “shut off” the faith part of me for a discussion, I can’t do that. Yeah, I can present logical arguments and not quote the Bible, but you need to have the understanding that what I say will have its foundation deeply rooted in the Bible. Actually, in my interpretation of it, because even that changes and grows as I do spiritually.

Well said! I have a healthy respect for those can differentiate between interpretation and fact. Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible to say we cannot have blood transfusions. I know the scriptures they use and I completely understand why their interpretation is back the front to what was intended. But there are none so blind as those who will not see.

If your faith inspires your logic, then don't change. It's working for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

::::Yes, it IS the reason. All this stuff about “follow your heart” we see in the world today is a bunch of cr@pola. Some people DO follow their hearts, and it leads, in many cases to destruction. It FEELS good when we are doing it, but it usually clouds our view. Following your heart alone usually winds up with you saying “Oh Geez, I didn’t realize THAT would happen…” Now I am not saying that your HEART will lead you wrong, just that it CAN if it is your only counselor. And let me make the distinction that when I say HEART, I mean emotions.

Sometimes very powerful emotions too. But, yeah, I'm with you.

:::::Many people say things like “I can’t MAKE myself feel a certain way.” Again, cr@pola. Where you set your HEAD and your SPIRIT, your heart will follow. Don’t believe me? Here are some examples…

:::::::::What about the people who devote their lives to the accumulation of worldly possessions? Their heads are telling them I must have more things, and they develop a love for those things. Are they all BORN with that in their hearts? Then what about the people who start out that way and realize the futility or dissatisfaction of it?

::::::::What about the starving people in 3rd world nations? To those of us in the United States, we are RARELY exposed to the abject poverty in the rest of the world. People from here go on missionary journeys or serve in the military and get exposed to these nations and many develop a heart for the people there. Why? Their HEAD saw it and the “rules” of how a society should be (again, developed in the head) resulted in urgings in their hearts.

::::::::::What about Adolf Hitler? He was LOVED by the youth of Germany during his rise to power. When it became evident what he was doing, do you think ALL of them still loved him? I would bet money that those that knew that heart can follow head STOPPED loving him when they realized what he was doing. Those that didn’t, well they did not know this lesson and followed their hearts essentially in support of a monster. (They probably all had affairs the next week. J Sorry, just had to throw that in).

:::::::::::I am not talking “mushy, adolescent, crush love.” I am talking real love. And I truly believe that you WILL develop this love for those you serve. You can’t “make” yourself do it in the same sense that you just change a channel on a television. It is a process – it takes nurturing, patience, and effort, even when you don’t “feel” like it.

::::::::It takes SERVICE. With a few caveats.

I'm not entirely sure where this is going but just letting you know I'm still reading.

::::1) The service must be joyful. If you are begrudgingly serving, it will NOT cultivate feelings of love. You must come to the personal realization that you serve your spouse because you WANT to. Because they DESERVE your service simply because they are your spouse. If you are serving to not get yelled at, or so you can go out with the girls, or because you are going to ask for that boat you always wanted when the family can’t really afford it, then you are not serving joyfully. Doing it joyfully is the hard part. It is a CHOICE and it is a hard one. If you cannot do that, you will fail.

:::::::OK, I'm thinking of some of the WSs who are kinda back but not quite. Where the BS is still unsure about the level of committment and input from them. I wonder whether they feel this way because "actions speak louder than words", and there aren't enough unconditional actions happening yet? Having someone do for you, as you describe above, has to be reassuring - or if things are being done begrudgingly by the FWS, the message to the BS is....? They're not over it or back or loved, and feeling safe is a long way off. Yeah?

::::2) It must be done with no expectations. Again, this is hard. Our flesh SCREAMS when we don’t get something in return. The attitude of service for the joy of serving takes PRACTICE.

Well, now, I'm not sure than any of us serve unconditionally. There are trade offs. There has to be. I suspect my H serves me so well now for a bunch of reasons. Guilt, shame, sorrow. But also because of the upgraded intimacy we share. I think that counts for a lot with a man.

:::I stopped at the grocery store this morning. There was a woman struggling with her cart. The parking lot was on a hill and she was trying to keep the cart from rolling into the side of her car while unloading the groceries. She was doing a fine job and would have accomplished her task without aid, but it was a struggle. So I stopped and held the cart while she unloaded the groceries. Why? Only because it was kind and I like to be a blessing. Why? Because I LOOK for things like that to do for my fellow man. Why? Because some time ago I made a conscious CHOICE that I was going to live my life that way. I did not IMMEDIATELY change my behavior when I made this decision, I had to PRACTICE it. I have been doing “little blessings” like that for people for years now and it is to the point where I can’t help it anymore. I actually feel bad if I don’t.

You know just when I think I've got everything all figured out, someone goes and blows my mindset. I had a horrible time getting my 83 yo father to the airport recently (back in Australia). It had flooded over nite and the international/domestic airport had been closed and it was in chaos and dad is sight impaired and a bit confused mentally since his last stroke - and I had to drop him at the main door and find a non existant car space etc etc etc. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. On finally putting him on his plane I nearly backed into a woman who beeped me to stop me doing it. I was so grateful that I drove up to her to thank her and some other &^%(* took the space which was rightfully hers. I was so upset about it that I burst into tears on the drive home and told myself that everyone is mean spirited and life is just a series of horrible incidents. I got home in time for the plumber who was coming to fix my kitchen tap. The call out fee and the new piece should have cost about a hundred and something but the plumber produced a new tap (Italian) and I was panicking about how much all this was going to cost as Italian taps are horrendously expensive. I have no idea why, but the guy said no charge. He said he was out and about anyway (none of which made any sense to me) and he just said it was on him. I didn't know him from Adam. I didn't even offer him a cup of tea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So, point of story? People like you confuse people like me! Having someone be unexpectedly nice to you can be very confusing and wonderful!

:::::::Our bodies, our flesh, loves routine. Forget stimulants like nicotine, caffeine, or things like that that only enhance this need. Just consider the mundane.

::::::::Don’t you have some quirks that you “just do?” Weird little habits that “don’t feel right” when they are not done? What about your socks? In your sock drawer, do you stack them? Or do you fold over the elastic to keep them together? Or do you roll the pair into the little ball and invert the elastic to keep them in the neat little balls? Or are they clothespinned? Why do you do that? You trained yourself that way.

:::::::::What if I came in and forced you to do your sock drawer a different way? It would bother you at first, but you would get used to it. You may even EMBRACE it if there was some reward or it served your sense of right and wrong. Like the simple gratitude of a smile for being a “little blessing” to someone unexpectedly. And your HEART your EMOTIONS would follow. “Hey, I LIKE the way NCWalker taught me how to do my socks!”

:::::::::Ask ANYONE in the military about this. When you join, you are forced to do things their way. No arguments. No room for debate. Do it our way or you will be in pain. Most people in the military pick up quite a few habits from these idiosyncrasies. And never lose them, ESPECIALLY if they are beneficial.

::::::::::You want to change? The PROCESS is easy, the execution a little more challenging. You just brainwash yourself. Don’t get hung up on the negative connotation of the word. What I mean is you retrain your habits you want to change into habits you want. And it is a process. (Read “Seven Habits of Highly Effective People”, it goes into this in detail).

::::::::::::And guess what, your FEELINGS about your new habits will follow suit. But is really SUCKS heart wise, or feelings wise when you start that journey. Ask ANYONE who has made the journey.

:::::::::You want to LOVE your spouse, SERVE your spouse. But be very clear on what it means to SERVE. It doesn’t mean to SLAVE.


Well point taken. But, I am going real easy on the serving part of our M equation right now. I didn't understand why until your thread on serving. One thing thru all this is that I have come to appreciate that my reactions and behavior since d-day have been very instinctual and not altogether unreasonable. I know I will start to recipocate service in time, but I'm taking it easy and I'm doing that on purpose. My H needs to re earn my service to him.

:::::::::quote: Could your theory on 'serving' explain more than the EN's theory about why a S is unfaithful? Just wondering...

::::::::::No. They are explaining two different things.

Not sure that I agree with you - but maybe I'll come to appreciate a difference in time....

:::And my take is it is right out of the Bible – have a servant’s heart toward your spouse.

My H actually quoted a scripture to me recently. It was "rejoice in the wife of your youth". I was 19 and he was 20 when we wed!

AN

NCW,

My head's swimming a bit, but hopefully I'm following you. That said, now my question is....are we to strive towards Agape love toward all people, and not just our spouses? If so, then what is to prevent the other two types of love from following, since as you said, the other two will follow if you choose Agape Love?
As you know, many affairs begin as friendship, each person "choosing" to serve the other in love, as Christ asks us to. So now we are in a bind.....maybe we have to choose NOT to Agape love certain people (members of the opposite sex) because we know Eros can follow.

THat is probably where I'm hung up right now. I fear showing Agape love towards other males, because that is how the whole darn thing started for me.

Also, where does Love come from, really? Is it really our choice or is it a gift from God? And if it is a gift, and all we need do is ask, then why don't we? What if we do not have any desire to choose Agape? Then do we ask for the DESIRE? I personally think that is what we have to do....I have done that. I knew I didn't have the desire to love the way I should, knew that is what I needed, so the only thing I COULD do is ask for the desire.....and that prayer was answered. I'm just not sure it's as simple as CHOOSING....because that makes it in our own power to love, which I don't believe it is.

Does God's love for us encompass all three "types" of love? If not, then are the other two really love at all?

NOW

* NCW - I read somewhere that the spouse who cheats did not GIVE ENOUGH to their M, NOT that they did not receive enough from it. Your theme would seem to expand on this. But I agree. It seems to be rarely the doting spouse that cheats.

* MS you said
What I don't understand is it seems to me that every person on here finds religion once they find that there spouse or love has cheated. I just don't get it..

Does this surprise you? Ihave found that in many of us there is a latent faith in either a 'higher power' or in a creations/existene theory. At moments of existential stress it is natural ( I assume) to cling to whatever life-raft we have stowed in the compartment marked "in event of existential crisis".

On d-day I felt powerless to affect the enormous insult I had received. My faith had become diluted by the veneer of everyday life.

My soul just MOANED to God in prayer automatically. I just sobbed and begged for hours at a time to God.
And God responded magnificently ( or else lots of improbably coincidences happened - I choose God !).

So maybe infidelity does not convert people a sresurrect their hope in their higher power ?

Bob said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> * NCW - I read somewhere that the spouse who cheats did not GIVE ENOUGH to their M, NOT that they did not receive enough from it. Your theme would seem to expand on this. But I agree. It seems to be rarely the doting spouse that cheats.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">**sigh**

In my perception of things with RH and I, I thought I was the doting one. My entire life revolved around him. I always put his needs above my own. As an example : He wanted to move "back home" some years ago, to the place he grew up. I was very resistent to this idea for MANY reasons. But eventually, I relented because I saw how important it was to him. It was an extremely difficult move for me....no friends, family even further away, etc. That is just ONE example.
Now as I said, this was my perception of things, and RH and I have talked about it and he agrees that he did NOT give much to the marriage. Of course, his working was for me and the family, but it came at another price....no time for ME.
So, for years, I felt I was doing ok....treated him like a King, kept myself looking good, pickig up the slack where needed, putting my own dreams on the back burner to help him with his. Please, remember that RH agrees that this is how it was.
At some point, I could not do it any more....could not and would not serve without receiving. I received a nice house, nice cars, plenty of food and clothing. But not HIM. After a few years of feeling sorry for myself I became selfish. That is when the affair happened. My physical needs were being met in abundance....but not emotional needs. Was I to be satisfied with only that? Is it really selfishness to want your emotional needs met?
You are right in that a doting spouse would not cheat. When I was doting, I did not cheat. But why did I stop being doting? And while I didn't see RH as being doting, at least in the manner I desired, why did he not cheat? Or did he, but not with another female, but rather with himself, his job, or what have you?

Just trying to understand....not make excuses or rationalize....some pieces just don't fit in the above explanation from where I stand. Unless I'm missing something!

NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My head's swimming a bit, but hopefully I'm following you. That said, now my question is....are we to strive towards Agape love toward all people, and not just our spouses? If so, then what is to prevent the other two types of love from following, since as you said, the other two will follow if you choose Agape Love?
As you know, many affairs begin as friendship, each person "choosing" to serve the other in love, as Christ asks us to. So now we are in a bind.....maybe we have to choose NOT to Agape love certain people (members of the opposite sex) because we know Eros can follow.

That is probably where I'm hung up right now. I fear showing Agape love towards other males, because that is how the whole darn thing started for me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOW, I just want to jump in to say that these are actually very good questions and things I’ve often wondered myself... My friendship with XOM indeed started out as a choice (as you’ve said above) to serve each other in the love of Christ and to give moral help & support to each other at work if necessary. Like you, I also have a fear now to show agape love toward any male person if my H is not present ... I’m extremely cautious and careful now…even paranoid and sometimes I wonder if this is a good thing... I only allow male friends in my life now if the person is a friend of both me and my H and when both me and my H can share time with this person. The only men I feel save to ‘serve’ and support now (where my H is not present), is the men on these boards... I feel save because these boards is public, anonymous and open for everyone to read… One or two male posters once ask to communicate to me through e-mail as well (to provide specific insight and support), but I won’t even allow that… This is a way of protecting myself against my own weaknesses and fear that I will deveop inapproriate feelings for an opposite sex person again, but somtimes I wonder if I'm not too harsh or strict on myself now...if I'm not overly cautious and careful now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Suzet

* Now, its not my theory, I read it , and it make sense to me.

Squid had basically removed herself from all but despised dutiful support fo me in the year prior to her affair. Previously she had been much more supportive, if not indulgent.

She told me that after years of serving others her affair was something SHE wanted for HER and she enjoyed it, and did not regret it.

Fog? possibly but I do believe theres some truth in the reasoning , even if she may not still agree with the lack of regret now.

And in truth MY overindulgence has been a problem too. Squid even now is just accustomed to my love and efforts. Part of me ( a STUPID part of me!) thinks that if shed actually left me to live with OM, she may have appreciated me more. Right now because I ave always indulged her, and OM indulged her during the affir, she maybe thinks that ALL men are like this all the time.

Ah I dunno. Its easy to generalise based on our won experience, when in truth I think everybody has different reasons for having very similar affairs.

And they're all sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And they're all sad. [Frown]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes....that's something we can all agree on, eh? THAT is most assuredly universal.

QUestions such as those I asked above are questions I have been asking myself for a long time, and I KNOW that the way I answered them (by having an affair) was the wrong answer.....yet I still do not know the "right" answer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's so easy to take another person for granted....I have done it to others and it has been done to me. Try as we might, we are NEVER going to get it completely RIGHT in this lifetime! God knows this, but has provided a way....His love for us was demonstrated to us in radical forgiveness. Outrageous, undeserved forgiveness. And we will probably always find a way to take advantage of His forgiveness, yet He will never take it away. That's mind-boggling to me!

For the record, those things Squid said about it being for HER....yes, I said that too. Not saying I was RIGHT....just saying I also felt that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You know, we treat our friends better than we treat our spouses sometimes (a LOT of times)....and I decided I am not gonna do that anymore! It takes a conscious effort and a whole lotta grace.


NOW

NC: Your post is spot-on. I've taken the liberty of downloading it and will add my own $.02 for my personal use. Hope you don't mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My only immediate comment would be that the Phileo love is widely expoited by WS's and OP's particularly after exposure. They sort of "dig in their heels" to the world saying "It's us against them" and all of us enjoy fighting a good cause. Only in these instances; the "good" cause, being selfish-based is unhealthy and damaging.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your faith inspires your logic, then don't change. It's working for you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also feel that "our logic inspires our faith". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">maybe we have to choose NOT to Agape love certain people (members of the opposite sex) because we know Eros can follow. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have a propensity to allow EROS love to follow anyone but your spouse - then absolutely yes; you must then choose to disallow Agape love to anyone but your spouse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does God's love for us encompass all three "types" of love? If not, then are the other two really love at all? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God's love for us is Agape. Eros and Phileo involve free will and behavior - which means that God allows us to decide who gets each.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My friendship with XOM indeed started out as a choice (as you’ve said above) to serve each other in the love of Christ and to give moral help & support to each other at work if necessary. Like you, I also have a fear now to show agape love toward any male person if my H is not present ... I’m extremely cautious and careful now…even paranoid and sometimes I wonder if this is a good thing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have proven that you're capable of having an affair that began as a "friendship". Which means that you allowed the friendship to become inappropriate. When you made the decision to go past friendship, you moved past the Agape love into one or both of the other two. This is where trouble lies as the other two are reserved for our spouses. Was your A the type that you one day woke up & said; "I cannot help how I feel about OP"? If so; then yes, you should maintain an emotional distance from all males.

FR

NOW, I truly believe that many affairs are for the personal satisfaction ( albeit temporary) of the affairees. I can cope with that.

A little time after withdrawal I asked Squid how she felt NOW about her affair. She replied "it wasn't worth it".

This too was a very honest reply IMO. She enjoyed the affar but it it wasn't worth the upset it caused.

I asked her again a couple of weeks ago, and she burst into tears saing "You should know how I feel now if you loved me!"
So no real answer there, but the topic upsets her now, so she either misses it very much or regrets it very much I suspect.

As NCW says perhaps it IS simple when you get down to it. People find themselves in a combination of circumstances that make them enjoy an affair, and do not consider the consequences.

The CIRCUMSTANCES may be complex, but the execution is simple. Its a value judgment. At that time the affair's pleasure is more important than the consequences. Our perceptions of that balance changes after the affair in many cases.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have a propensity to allow EROS love to follow anyone but your spouse - then absolutely yes; you must then choose to disallow Agape love to anyone but your spouse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How would anyone KNOW they had this propensity until it happened? I think we ALL have it.
Disallow Agape love? That sounds like a refusal to submit to God's commandment.

NOW

Another thought....consider the book from the Bible, Song of Solomon.

It is obviously an expression of the Eros type of Love. Why is it in the Bible? I had heard that it mirrors God's love for us, as another facet of His love for us. I don't know if that's the case, just someone's opinion, or what....I never did understand the place of that in the Bible....just more questions! AARGH!


NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by notonlywords:
<strong>How would anyone KNOW they had this propensity until it happened? I think we ALL have it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmm…very good question! Before my inappropriate friendship, I never thought of myself as someone who have a propensity to allow EROS love to follow AGAPE love towards anyone else but my own H… I was the last person on earth I thought would get tempted. But, as NOW said, people only learn these things until after they’ve become involved or developed inappropriate feelings for someone else… And I also agree with NOW that ALL people are vulnerable in a greater or lesser degree to have an A and/or develop inappropriate feelings for someone else. Some people might have a greater vulnerability and/or weaknesses as others, but ALL people are vulnerable and wired to have A’s and ALL must be aware… Dr Harley said the following (copied from this website):
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are all wired for affairs. The only people who are exempt are those who are utterly incapable of meeting someone else's emotional needs. If you can't meet anyone's needs, no one will ever fall in love with you. But if your spouse has anything to offer others, and you are not meeting an important emotional need, commitment to "forsake all others" can become words without meaning.” </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AND
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzet

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi Suzette,


Yes, it's a good idea to remember that from time to time. I absolutely cringe when I hear a BS say they would NEVER have an affair! It's not that I don't believe them, it's just that I don't believe them! (Been there, said that...look at me now, a FWW) LOL!

RH told me once or twice that he had always thought that if one of us had an affair, it would have been him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That's probably exactly why he didn't!
I, on the other hand, thought I was ABOVE it...because of my convictions (religious and otherwise).
Never say never!

NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't sure exactly what this meant. If RH never thought I would have an affair (he has said as much), does that make HIM vulnerable to having one, or me?

NOW

nw, cringe away! I think there are a number of people who can say they will not cheat and mean it. My father cheated on my mother, and left her to struggle with a little boy, in poverty. She was beautiful and soon approached by a good looking man who offered to take care of her (in oh so many ways!). She remained rock solid to her M vowels.

I have had several offers to cheat prior to and after my H's A. I am not built that way. Some of us are cursed with insight into the misery we will create for ourselves and others if we choose short term gratification over long term security. We are not all created equal when it comes to cheating. And in case you think I am being self righteous, well, yeah, I think I've earned the right to be. This is what I chose for myself.

I find your comments condenscening. Because you failed you assume everyone else to be weak. They are not.

AN (have another cringe on me!)

nw, cringe away! I think there are a number of people who can say they will not cheat and mean it. My father cheated on my mother, and left her to struggle with a little boy, in poverty. She was beautiful and soon approached by a good looking man who offered to take care of her (in oh so many ways!). She remained rock solid to her M vowels.

I have had several offers to cheat prior to and after my H's A. I am not built that way. Some of us are cursed with insight into the misery we will create for ourselves and others if we choose short term gratification over long term security. We are not all created equal when it comes to cheating. And in case you think I am being self righteous, well, yeah, I think I've earned the right to be. This is what I chose for myself.

I find your comments condescending. Because you failed you assume everyone else to be weak. They are not.

AN (have another cringe on me!)

Anyname - go to bed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

My belief that humans are weak is not condescending. It is what I believe, spiritually. That is the reason for our need of a Lord and Savior.
Are you without sin? If so, then go ahead and cast those stones.

The "cringing" stems from the knowledge that I once sat where you are....I knew without a doubt (LMAO!) that I was not that weak. And I was wrong.


NOW

Hey notonlywords:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How would anyone KNOW they had this propensity until it happened? I think we ALL have it.
Disallow Agape love? That sounds like a refusal to submit to God's commandment.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you suggesting that we must go through the entire experience of an A (from initial thought to physical consumation) before we can be sure that we're capable [or not] of having an affair? I feel (hope) there are many who may have initial thoughts of an A but stop the action before it goes anywhere for reasons of vows, commitment, to spouse and God, family, love etc.


As to God's Commandment of love, I referenced an article (and condensed it) that I've kept near:

(Matthew 22:36-40) A Pharisaic lawyer once asked our Lord, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

According to Matthew's Gospel, the very essence of the Law and the Prophets is to love God and to love others. And we see this term "the Law and the Prophets" used in one other place in Matthew's Gospel. It's in this passage that we find the Biblical definition for love: (Matthew 7:12) "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Would you want your wife to commit adultery? Would you want someone to murder you or to murder someone you love? Would you want someone to steal from you, lie to you, covet your possessions? Of course not! So don't go and do these things to other people! Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, commands us to "owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'You shall not covet,' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)

FR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are not all created equal when it comes to cheating. And in case you think I am being self righteous, well, yeah, I think I've earned the right to be. This is what I chose for myself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Romans 14 -

"Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgement, facing God."

Fishracer....

What can I say? Maybe ten years ago if I had been faced with the temptation to have an affair, I would have refused. TODAY, I can fairly confidently say I would refuse if faced again. All I am saying is that no matter how sure a person thinks they are about something, there is always that possibility, albeit a small one, that they could be wrong.

NOW

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: notonlywords* ]</small>