Michael,

Did you see my reply to you on my thread? It's a couple pages back now already.

O

Now NCW... that stuff about being the head of the household, the spiritual leader. Rather than disagreeing with you, I'd just point out that this is not the way all of us want to run our households.

I don't have a problem with it. In fact, in my own marriage, things turned out to operate very much in this way, without the sparrow and I having planned it. I remember once, we had a fender bender. A woman tried to move into our lane of traffic when we were already there. We pulled over and got out, and I dealt with the situation while the sparrow stayed in the car. On the way home, she said,

"I'm glad you were driving. You stay so calm. I would have too upset to talk to that girl. I don't know how you do it."

I said, "It was an accident. It was nothing personal. She didn't mean to do it. People have accidents all the time. Why get offended when they happen? You live in the world, some annoying things are going to happen."

She said, "I would take it personally."

GC

Cindy,

How about an update? How are you doing today?

O

Dear Mike and Christy,

I saw on Mike's thread that the two of you considered leaving because of my harsh post.

PLEASE don't do that. Your situation is VERY SIMILAR to mine. I wanted the two of you to have a wake-up call that you have a LOT of WORK ahead of you. But you CAN do it. The fact that you BOTH are willing to work is a wonderful head start.

Lovely sentiments and congratulations make us feel good, sometimes too good. Too confident. No matter what WE say on this board, the only way you two will make it is with a LOT of forgiveness and pride swallowing. And it will be worth it.

I would KILL for another try with my WW. She just isn't very interested. Chance favors the prepared mind - digest my post, use the anger, stand TOGETHER and say that will NOT happen to us. Then MAKE it NOT happen to you.

Prepare yourselves for bad days on the good days, not in the sense that you blast one another on the bad days, but in the mature realization that you will have them and it is not the end of the world (or of the marriage).

It takes people YEARS to recover from this.

If I have touched a nerve and angered you, I would say GOOD. For if you have read what I posted and said it is not like that, it means you have taken a hard look at what it IS like. That shores up BOTH your boundaries. Always a good thing.

I may have assumed too much in my post. If I have I am sorry. If you want, I will be happy to delete them from the thread.

Know what the best thing I read on the other thread was?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NCWALKER left me and Cindy a very Harsh post on the joint thread, and it really bothered me and Cindy..

We are both thinking of leaving MB because of this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See that "me and Cindy?" See that word "BOTH?" That is Mike and Cindy against the world. That is how it should be.

NCWalker

Mschluter:

Just wanted to give you "props" for reaching out to help someone else (down on the recovery board)...even though your own situation is still less then you'd like it to be.

I truly hope that some of your advice can "get through" ....where so many others have not.

However, considering you've got a couple of threads going yourself.....I just wanted to give you a shout out for at least Trying. Good Job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Things are going good. Cindy and I are going to her sisters with the kids for a couple hours tonight.

Hey guys,

Happy things are OK, but ... why don't you send the kids alone and take same time to be alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Enjoy your weekend!

MS,
Reading the many posts on this site, one thing that always strikes me as glaringly obvious is that those trying to reconcile with out a plan always seem to experience higher incidences of failure.

Expectations need to be articulated and discussed; otherwise disappointments and misunderstandings are sure to be the result. And it stands to reason. Why would you wait to find out after the fact that certain kinds of behavior that she may exhibit are the kind that you find intolerable? It’s not fair to you and it’s certainly not fair to Cindy.

Look, let’s put aside all the explosive adjectives like “prison,” “demand,” or “unreasonable” for just a moment and instead, deal with simple reality. As free adults we all have certain prerogatives guaranteed us under the law. But what those prerogatives have to do with having a happy healthy marriage always seems to escape me.

A wife or husband is free to go out drinking and meeting any one they choose any time they choose. They don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do so. Further, they are free to come home or not come after the fact or when they choose to later on. They are free to have sex with any one they choose. They are free to be mean spirited and spiteful if they choose to be. In fact, folks are free to do any damn thing they choose to do as long as it’s with in the law but so what?

My point is simple. If Cindy chooses to reconcile and be your wife then she owes it to you to tell you under what conditions she chooses to fulfill that role. Likewise, if you choose to have her back in your life, you owe it to her to tell her under what conditions you expect the relationship to be governed. Here at MB, there is a very good system by which these issues are negotiated. Its called the Policy of Joint Agreement and how to implement it is covered very carefully.

I would suggest that the two of you do some reading and have a heartfelt and honest discussion about each other’s “bottom line” so to speak. If her not writing and NC letter to her ex OM is not acceptable to you then you have choices to make. If you asking her to leave her current place of employment is not acceptable to Cindy, then like wise she has choices to make. Being in love is grand but living with hurt, pain and resentment is not so grand and love is not the big equalizer that we would all like to think. What is the big equalizer is loving and unselfish behavior! And if you two can’t manage to live the love then I would advise that you two learn to love each other from a distance and go on with your lives separately.

Coach

Coach,

Yours was the best response to the problem MS and Cindy are facing. The rest of us were very quick to judge each position and provide a "solution", you on the other hand pointed out the path to the solution.

coach3530 :


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Reading the many posts on this site, one thing that always strikes me as glaringly obvious is that those trying to reconcile with out a plan always seem to experience higher incidences of failure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could not agree with you more, but Cindy is only going on day 10 of serious NC and I really have only one expectation of her and thats to have zero contact with OM and as harsh as it may sound if she does I will take the children and leave her for good. I refuse to let her do this yet again to me and the children.

She seems to really understand what she has to lose and agree's with this. Is it Fair? Probably not, but Either is cheating on your husband and lying to your Children, And either is walking out on your children Twice to go have SF with OM.

So I am tired of being the forgiving type of husband everytime she breaks Nc. I am tired of picking upo the pieces to the childrens hearts and trying to make them understand that mommy is not herself and that she does love them. Well as everyone say's Actions speak louder then words and her actions were plain...She was walking out on the kids to have SF with OM...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Expectations need to be articulated and discussed; otherwise disappointments and misunderstandings are sure to be the result. And it stands to reason. Why would you wait to find out after the fact that certain kinds of behavior that she may exhibit are the kind that you find intolerable? It’s not fair to you and it’s certainly not fair to Cindy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could not agree with you more, But how many D-Days should I allow before I put my foot down and say enough is enough?

Cindy also got in the habbit of going out with the girls from work and on two occassions tried picking up the waiter's and on her last little outing actually slipped the young 20 yr old waiter her number...This just really turns my stomack..when does it stop and where does it end.

So I have told her that if she really wants this Marriage and wants to fix us certain things have to change.

1) No more dinners with the girls

2) Zero Contact with OM

3) Radical Honesty

4) Stop the Lies

5) Give Me Time


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A wife or husband is free to go out drinking and meeting any one they choose any time they choose. They don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to do so. Further, they are free to come home or not come after the fact or when they choose to later on. They are free to have sex with any one they choose. They are free to be mean spirited and spiteful if they choose to be. In fact, folks are free to do any damn thing they choose to do as long as it’s with in the law but so what? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again I agree with you but it seems to me that once an Affiar enters into your life those little fun times out burn up the trust fuel that kept the Marriage heated and loving in the first place.

As a human you should be able to look at your wife and NO she will stay faithful or at least come home and talk to you about things that are on her mind. I hold myself accountable for the fact that I must have done a lot to make my wife seek SF and happiness elsewhere, But I did not go and find the OM for her, I did not beg her to have these disgusting sexual acts with him. And I am just so tired of being made to feel like it is all on my shoulders.

Does anyone even care how I feel, The pain I am feeling, The anger I feel over this..

And as NCWALKER said ...If I can't do it then let her go..Well Guess what maybe he is right...Maybe I need to take my children and move as far away from this as I can..




My point is simple. If Cindy chooses to reconcile and be your wife then she owes it to you to tell you under what conditions she chooses to fulfill that role. Likewise, if you choose to have her back in your life, you owe it to her to tell her under what conditions you expect the relationship to be governed. Here at MB, there is a very good system by which these issues are negotiated. Its called the Policy of Joint Agreement and how to implement it is covered very carefully.


I'll tell you what.. Pose this question to Cindy and I would be curious as to what she has to say. I for one have told her don't do this if she wants Om don't do this if she can't put in all the effort she can and I told her don't do this if you feel you can't stay away from OM...


So you go ahead and ask her what she finds fair and what she finds unfair, Because I am just bone F****ng Tired of being lied to, Manipulated and treated like a $2.00 rug...

I'm tired of being hurt, I'm tired of trying to make sense of things she has done and said and when I ask her to explain it I get the deer in the head light look...

She needs to look into her heart and be honest..

DO YOU WANT THIS MARRIAGE?

If not move on and be happy, I know for a fact me and the children can and will survive without Cindy.

I still have much work to make me the best me I can, But I do not and cannot make Cindy into the best wife she can be or the best person she can be, She has to want to do it. She has to want it with all the passion in her soul, She has to be upfront and honest..

I still feel like she is holding back...

She claims No Withdrawal, No missing Om, No need to call him...

Maybe she is ok with the A ending. Or maybe she is just getting better at hiding it for fear of how I will react..

Do you have any idea how it feels to be told to your face that:

1) OM is better looking then you

2) Om is sexier then you

3) Om has better Teeth then you

4) Kisses better then you

5) Makes me feel better then you

6) Hugs me better then you

7) Has better Sf with Om then you

8) Hates you

9) Wants a D ( Once a day for over two months )

10) Passes her work number to a 20 year old child to see if she can bed him just to see if she has what it takes..


Well you know what..If she can't make me feel better and she can't make me feel like number 1 again. If she really feels OM is so much better then Get the Heck out of my house and go be with him..

I feel she should write a NC letter, I feel she should quit her Job. I feel she should not talk see or write Om ever again...

And of course she probably feels I am being mean...BULL


I have been through Heck and back....And so Have MY children. She hurt us so bad that I was giving Full Parental rights to these children. And I will do what I think is best for them and for me..

At this moment, and I mean at this very moment...I don't want this M anymore, I really don't..

Because I feel she will only hurt me time and time again...

She does not even post on here anymore, She does not care thats why...

So why should I

Coach..

I apprciate your posting on this thread, But you really caught me on a bad day..

I do not really understand what you mean by some of the things you posted and would like a little better explaination.

Wow!! I missed a couple days on here and have missed a lot. It took me over an hour to read all that I've missed. I'll post later after I've had some coffee and have collected my thoughts.

^Bump

MS,
Sorry bro but this is going to be long.

Did I really catch you on a bad day? I would have to believe that the particular day on which you responded to me was just one of many bad days that you’ve been living since this whole night mare began.

So let me begin by clearing up a few misconceptions you may have. I, as most that will post to you here; have indeed suffered the same indignity and pain that you are experiencing. And while comparing pain is pointless at best, let me just say that walking into my own bedroom one afternoon and catching my WW acting out her own rendition of “Deep Throat” with my then best friend was not one of the crowning moments of my life. How and why I decided to stay married is another story all together. But let’s just say that working with SH had a lot to do with how I managed to do it.

As for my post, I really wish you would take the time to re-read what I wrote you. I honestly took great pains to NOT communicate condemnation of either you or Cindy. But in that I apparently didn’t make myself clear I will try to now.

Everything you’re feeling is very real and even more important justified. Your wife has behaved in a way that is beyond anything that could be described. In fact, some might agree that her behavior was so reprehensible as to defy description. This is a given! This is an undisputable fact. This is not open to debate or argument. This is a fact that cannot be changed. That will never be changed.

It’s also true, however, that this is history! She swears that she is no longer doing these things. Further she swears that she is sorry and wants to make it up to you and have you forgive her. So the questions in your mind that need to be answered probably go something like this:

1. Is it true? Has she really ended her affair or is she lying again?

2. If she’s ended it, what caused her to do so? Did the OM toss her and am I then just her second choice?

3. If she has really stopped her affair, has she just stopped for the moment or is she really serious about never doing anything like this again?

4. What caused her to behave this way in the first place?

5. What else did she do and who did she do it with? Is there more that I don’t know about?

6. Is she really sorry or is sorry just a word she’s using to get me to forgive and forget?

7. And if she’s really telling the truth, how do I get myself to forgive and forget?

8. And if I agree to try forgiving her, what do I need her to do to make me feel safe doing it?

And of course there are more questions but essentially I would guess, these are the biggies. So what now?

To begin with, it probably would have been better for you two to remain separated for a while at least until you could have acclimated yourself to the change in the situation, but in that this is not an option, you have to deal with it as it is. And so as a beginning, what I suggest (what I suggested) is that you begin my working on your anger and emotionalism to get yourself to a place of clarity and objectivity. This is a method! It doesn’t mean that your wife is getting a pass on her behavior. It simply means that you are making the adult decision to go forward with the relationship and if this is what you’ve decided to do, then you don’t get to beat her up and take your pain out on her anymore.

It means that you seek to form a working relationship with Cindy by which the two of you re-establish your marriage and you can’t do that if you are going to stand outside the relationship reminding her of the judgment that has already been rendered. You both are past the blame issue now. Now it’s about finding ways to heal and love each other again. By accepting her back, this is what you agreed to do. The only question remaining is how to go about doing it.

I suggested that you two should have a plan. I also suggested that you two begin thinking about what it is you really want in this marriage and communicating it to each other. I then suggested that you two may be at odds as to what is most important and how this process needs to be implemented and as a solution, I suggested the Policy Of Joint Agreement.

Now is this going to be easy? No! Of course it isn’t going to be easy or fun or anything like pleasant but it can work and it has worked. The question that remains is, are you two really committed to seeing this through?

MS, here’s the real payoff. If you and your wife really decide to embark on this journey, then all of the question above will be answered! Because the level of commitment that both of you will need to bring to he table leaves no room for duplicitous behavior. So if you really want to know if she’s for real, this is the way.

Coach

coach3530:

Once again thank you for your time on answering some of my concerns and clearing up a few things for me.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did I really catch you on a bad day? I would have to believe that the particular day on which you responded to me was just one of many bad days that you’ve been living since this whole night mare began. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been having a lot of ups and downs to some of the things I am feeling. There is so much I want to understand and yet I don't think Cindy is capable of expressing these feelings to me right at this moment.

Example: She gave a Disk to OM with VERY private pictures of us on it. And I don't understand why the Om needed to see these pictures of me and my wife together in very private moments. She can't explain to me wht she would do such a foolish thing and then never gets the disk back, it's like " Oh Happy Birthday enjoy "

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for my post, I really wish you would take the time to re-read what I wrote you. I honestly took great pains to NOT communicate condemnation of either you or Cindy. But in that I apparently didn’t make myself clear I will try to now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will go back and read your post again, And give it more attention as it deserves with the time and effort you put into helping me.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything you’re feeling is very real and even more important justified. Your wife has behaved in a way that is beyond anything that could be described. In fact, some might agree that her behavior was so reprehensible as to defy description. This is a given! This is an undisputable fact. This is not open to debate or argument. This is a fact that cannot be changed. That will never be changed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe this is my main issue... I want to forget and forgive but the images of unanswered Questions flood my Heart and Soul. And it is so Unbelievably hard to explain my feelings to Cindy without her feeling defensive in some way.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It’s also true, however, that this is history! She swears that she is no longer doing these things. Further she swears that she is sorry and wants to make it up to you and have you forgive her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a very true statement. She swears in Tears that she never wants to hurt me again like this..


So the questions in your mind that need to be answered probably go something like this:


1. Is it true? Has she really ended her affair or is she lying again?


I would like to think so, But I feel she may be lying. How do you know fact from fiction?


2. If she’s ended it, what caused her to do so? Did the OM toss her and am I then just her second choice?

I must repeat this same statement to Cindy at least once a week. I feel Like second and even third to these other Men.

3. If she has really stopped her affair, has she just stopped for the moment or is she really serious about never doing anything like this again?

Bingo.... This is right on the Money.. How long before she gets bored with me and goes back to her old way's. Or what if she finds it impossible to be IN-LOVE with me and goes back to OM

5. What else did she do and who did she do it with? Is there more that I don’t know about?

Yep...I wonder if she has not been at this game for avery long time only to get caught this time, Why admit to past Affiars if there is no need to..Better to deal with this one then the past three or four.

6. Is she really sorry or is sorry just a word she’s using to get me to forgive and forget?


I feel like she is sorry for getting caught. Not sorry for the pain and betrayal she has caused me at such deep levels.

7. And if she’s really telling the truth, how do I get myself to forgive and forget?


Tears in my eye's this is exactly how I feel..It's so hard that I wish my heart would just stop beating in the middle of the night so I don't have to put my feet to the floor and face it anymore.

8. And if I agree to try forgiving her, what do I need her to do to make me feel safe doing it?


Very good question, And I wish I did have the answer to this one, because then maybe it would aleviat so much pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what I suggest (what I suggested) is that you begin my working on your anger and emotionalism to get yourself to a place of clarity and objectivity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I do this, sounds like a nice place to live but how do you get there and at what cost? I would love to be happy again and have all of this sorrow washed away in a morning rain.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It simply means that you are making the adult decision to go forward with the relationship and if this is what you’ve decided to do, then you don’t get to beat her up and take your pain out on her anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I try so hard but it seems like everything I say and do comes out so harsh. It's like I'm looking at myself from the outside in and can't believe the way I am talking to the woman I love so much. It breaks my heart. I lay awake at night with tears in eye's over the hurt I am now causing her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now it’s about finding ways to heal and love each other again. By accepting her back, this is what you agreed to do. The only question remaining is how to go about doing it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still waiting for an answer to this one..


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suggested that you two should have a plan. I also suggested that you two begin thinking about what it is you really want in this marriage and communicating it to each other. I then suggested that you two may be at odds as to what is most important and how this process needs to be implemented and as a solution, I suggested the Policy Of Joint Agreement.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where do we start?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question that remains is, are you two really committed to seeing this through? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am...I don't know if she is.


COACH:

I feel for you as well, and yet I am so destroyed by all of this. I am not mad about the A, well maybe a little. It's more about the deciet that traveled with it, it's the unexplained actions she took on this journey of hers. When will it end and how it ends is really up to her.

I like to think Cindy is serious this time around but like I answered in your question's , How do you really know?

MS,

You plan should start out with a time line. This time line should have announced evaluation points on it. Places where you and Cindy stop and talk about how EACH of you are feeling about the marriage. Places where you reevaluate the marriage. Given your current situation, I would like to suggest 3 months, 6months, 1 year, and perhaps every year from then on..

What are you going to evaluate? Happiness comes to mind but it is a feeling. Perhaps, your own ability to LOVE your spouse. I mean LOVE as a verb not a feeling. Perhaps you both discuss frustrations with life, or where you thing your future is going, professionally, as a spouse, as a parent.

The point is that YOU BOTH need to devise this plan, tune it, discuss it. You see one thing this plan MUST Focus on is the here and now, and the FUTURE. The past is gone, it serves as lessons learned and in a month of so of NC I think you will find Cindy to be more forthcoming with information. Frankly, she is probably as confused as you are.

So start to work on your plan together. I would guess it will take a month or two to just develop it. You will surprised at the changes that will occur in the next few months. At 6 months things will look much different than they do now, and I would encourage you to make NO decisions about your marriage until then. At that point you will have more data, which will include 6 months of NC on the part of Cindy.

You ARE NOT GOING to fix this, understand this, heal from this or put all of this in its proper perspective in the next month or two. There is a reason Harley states that recovery and healing takes 2 years. It can take that long to get all of the information you need to feel good about your marriage.

So slow down a bit, you cannot FIX this with any magic words or with one bold stroke of action. Even a divorce would NOT fix this or you.

Please reread Coaches posts yet again, he has offered a general outline of a plan. Think about it, do more reading, and speak with a counselor, but most of all continue to keep lines of communications OPEN with Cindy.

God Bless,

JL

MS,

Coach and JL are giving you good advice.

You need a plan, Cindy working on it with you is an excellent sign. Mine did not, and she has had another A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You need to CONTROL your temper. And it is not easy. I failed many times, you will too. But MOST of the time it should be in control.

Compartmentalize.

Why control your temper?

1) The offense IS in the past (now). Process your anguish, and all that, but don't lash out if you can help it at all. Hurting her verbally WILL NOT make it better. Time and understanding from you will help make it better, time and understanding from her will help make it better. Anger just isn't in there.

2) She is scared. Of lots of things. She is afraid she has passed a point where you CAN take her back. And your anger will only reinforce that to her. It says "I will not be able to forgive you." So here it is. She horribly wronged you. She made that choice. She should face whatever consequences come of that. Right? Ask yourself this - do you want to give your marriage the BEST chance of success, or do you want YOUR PRIDE intact? The two choices are mutually exclusive. Is it fair? Sure doesn't feel like that. FEELS LIKE you should be able to beat her down for what she has done and have her grovel at your feet to come back. Sorry. Not reality. And think about it, would you want her back that way? By bludgeoning her over the wrongness of what she has done (not saying you are, making a point) or coming back with some nobility and CHOOSING to be with you because she wants to, instead of fear of some repercussions.

Yes. She OWES you a few things. You have some valid terms that are deal-breakers. That is healthy. She should try and meet them. But you have some other terms that are "nice to haves" that should relax with time. And they will as she earns your trust back. She has to do that.

But don't give in to anger. It is counter-productive.

If she is crossing your deal-breaker boundaries and unwilling to meet them, that is your answer. Don't get angry about it, just execute accordingly.

But make SURE you are making the right choice. It only takes one time to make the choice to separate. The choice to stay together must be made every day.

NCW

I need to think about these things because everything I am hearing is true to heart. I want to save my Marriage and I want to be the best husband I can be. I want cindy to be able to talk to me about anything..

Her A is the past and yet it seems to be a lot of whats making this the present.

It's even Harder when you don't understand the Why's behind the things she has done.

It's even harder to say " OK I TRUST U "

I laid in my bed last night twisting and turning and all the ran through my mind was " what can I do to get through this "

I don't even know what to call the feelings I am feeling.

I don't think I have been as angry as I used to be. I have a lot more control over my temper since she ended the A and came clean.

I just don't know " HOW TO PUT TOGETHER A PLAN "


I don't know what she finds fair and what she finds just plain absurd.

NCWALKER:

Your right there are things that will change with time and trust and even I know that. It's time that scares me.

Where is GOD when I really need him..

God is always right there with you Mike. If you are choosing to try at this marriage, it means letting down your guard a bit and being a good listener - to both Cindy and God. There is so much pain you guys are working through...I don't even have a clue to tell you how to work through it. All I can say is that sometimes if I am quiet and really listen, God shows me a path when I need it most. Let him in.
GS

Mike,

You must remember that these things will sort themselves out "in due time." You cannot rush it. Many of your questions will be answered. Some will not, some she cannot answer either.

When you start to feel the anger boiling, remember anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones :fear, pain, etc. Stop and ask yourself which one is driving this and then address those feelings.

As for revenge or making her pay, I have a very simple answer for you. If she were to leave or you leave her, she will learn and have face her failures, but it will NOT be at your hands.

If she decides to stay and work, and/or you do, THEN you can get the revenge that your anger requires right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The best revenge is a life well lived.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you can come to grips with this and rebuild your marriage you will extract your revenge. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will caution you though, if you want her to feel guilty, it may be something you will sincerely wish you did not get. It is a big hurdle to recovering a marriage. He sense of guilt will NOT be something that you will enjoy, as she won't either.

THis just one of the things that changes as recovery occurs. Right now it sounds good for her to feel guilty, but in the long run you will come to see that you will want her guilt to end.

So don't worry so much about what you don't know, what she feels or doesn't feel for you right now. These things will change and become clearer as NC continues and YOU begin to face your own issues.

You are about to find out what a TEAM sport recovery really is.

Please think about all of the posts to you today. There are some powerful messages in there for you.

God Bless,

JL

Mike,

It is OK.

You are not faulty, you are not built wrong or wired wrong.

You have gone through trauma and your feelings are jumbled.

THAT IS OK. One of you biggest fights coming is the self-blame fight for all this.

All I am trying to say, is IF you let the emotions steer the ship, they will crash you on the reef.

It is NORMAL and NATURAL to have them.

As children, every new pain we encounter...
...first burn
...fisrt skinned knee
...first dentist visit
...first innoculation
ends up being "the worst pain ever."

And we learn, through experiencing pain, that it really isn't the worst pain ever.

By the same mechanisim, this too will subside.

What is the mechanisim? Time. Wish I had a magic wand.

Hang in there. For the next month, if your FEELINGS are telling you to do something, STOP and ask your head if it is something you really want to do.

Go get a piece of purple yarn (God's regal color) and tie it around your wrist to remind you.

While your at it, go get a piece of red yarn (God's blood color, the color of forgiveness) and tie it around your wife's wrist. Tell her that forgiveness is possible and this is to remind her of that.

Then APOLOGIZE for the mistakes in advance that you are going to make.

NCWalker