I like your boundaries. Are you prepared to follow through with them?

Mike,
I applaud your work and effort. What you’ve been describing here signifies real growth and understanding. My problem is with your choice of residence. You wouldn’t ask a reformed junky (there is no such things as a recovered addict, only a recovering addict) to live next to a crack house would you? Well why then put this additional pressure on such a delicate relationship? Mike, the situation is difficult enough with out putting additional temptation in her path. This move is not in anyone’s best interest, no matter how wonderful the new house might be. This is a mistake.
coach

{{{Michael}}}



I can imagine the pain you're in Michael. My heart goes out to you. Feeling full of distrust for her, unsure where your M stands, feeling so lost & confused. All I can offer you here is hugs & reassurance that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it's just going to be a long walk. I'm so sorry.

I think you've come a long way so far but there is still work to do. The MC seems to be helping you w/YOU, so that's good. One question -- if you lift the vindication, can it be reactivated if she would go back to contact? It seems as if she's trying to do the right thing, but feels "stuck" so to speak. Maybe if you try to understand that each time you discuss the OM & the A, it just reinforces the guilt she feels. Not saying she shouldn't feel any guilt, but that you reminding her of it only reinforces her "belief" that she's a "horrible" person who did this horrible thing.

What she has to realize though is that this is what YOU need in order to move forward. She still doesn't seem to get that. Maybe if she writes things down, that you two keep some kind of journal that records all questions, answers, etc. that each can *read* & then discuss later it might help. Maybe asking her what kinds of questions *she* would want answered if the shoes were reversed. This might give her an insight into your pain a little bit. Don't know if that would help but it's a suggestion.



This is normal & I know that's no comfort to you, but it's all I can think of to say. The more she shows herself trustworthy, the less doubts you'll have.



Every person's different as I've seen here but I believe that you'll *know* when you two have reached true recovery. Right now you're still on the ups & downs all over the place kind of rollercoaster so you can't see what's coming next. It's a fast ride sometimes, a slow ride at others & then sometimes not feeling like you're moving at all. That's the only definition I can think of to best describe recovery - one big rollercoaster ride (& I HATE rollercoasters!).



Mine has & a lot of FWS's I've seen, yes. The key is to be able to hear what you don't want to hear. It's very hard but needs to happen in order to move forward w/the healing process. Still, even LB & I, have finally gotten to the point (a yr later) where I found out even more about the A that he had been hiding, too ashamed to discuss.



It can happen. LB was the same way. He says he never thinks about her unless *I* bring her up. His A was 7 months & seemed to have no problem walking away from her. He truly wanted recovery though, so I'm unsure about Cindy.

One thing I need to stress - I agree totally w/the others. Moving that close to OM can be very dangerous. I too think it's a mistake. Of course, that's my VHO. Of course, be prepared to back up your boundary if indeed there is contact. This is crucial in order to maintain YOUR sanity.

God bless.

UPDATE and ANSWERS:

Cindy is still dealing with her feelings for OM and it seems what upsets her is when I bring up his name in conversation. She also gets really mad at say's things like "He is done with me" and "It's over, he will never talk to me again"

Hmmmm


Well Anyway, I'm writing back to answer all of you and hopefully get some responses back.

So here we go.



Mulan Asked:


Yes we have closed on the house already and are just waiting for the owners to close on the new home they purchased a few miles from us.

I agree with you that this is a huge mistake but if I move out of State Cindy has made it clear she will not move, Thus this would leave her without the kids and I would feel horrible. The only way I would take the kids out of State at this time would be if Cindy walked out on us again or if she made any contact with OM and I mean any.

The OM is Male....





Very much stress........A buddy of mine knows the owner of the company the OM works for and has offered to have OM fired, Cindy of course thinks this is wrong to do.....What do you all think? Have him Fired or leave him ten houses from his main course...




We all have limits before we find ourselves swinging from the rope of life... I'm testing mine..



faithful follower Asked:



I am not sure how to answer that question. I find that Cindy was almost fun to have sex with while she was in the A, Almost like she had to perform her best or I might figure out she was having the A. Now that the A is over she is not so fun and she seems like she is in a rush for it to end. I feel rushed. And when I try to tell her the things I like she gets very defensive. Any ideas?


faithful follower Asked:


In all of my heart as much as I love my wife I will walk away from her and never look back if these boundries are forged and crossed. My line in the sand is very clear and she knows it.


coach3530 Asked:




Coach I could not agree with you more on this house. Me and Cindy are in such a delicate place right now that even the slightest breeze could bring the house of cards down. She is just in love with this new house and seems so happy. And I don't think she is happy because of the proximity to OM's job. She just loves the house. We have already sold this home and are just waiting for the new home to be vacated by the previous owners. I do not have the time or luxury to look for another home in this already small but wonderful community. Please coach I could use your support and help to help me do this. Cindy is so sure that she will not make contact and I have tried on several occassions to talk her out of it but she really likes this home.


StandingTogether Asked:





Thank you Standing Together, I know this is wrong and not the smartest move I have made but even the children love the house. They are on pins and needles as well wondering if they will come home to fine MOM up the street talking to OM or maybe walk in and find him in the new house. We all have are worries on this new house...



Ok........

I wrote back to all of you and hope you find the time to write back if you can.


QUESTIONS:


1) Should I just say screw it and take the promotion in Florida and bail on the new house?

2) Cindy keeps telling me she does not love me, can love really be born out of the ashes of a bad Marriage?

3) Will I ever trust her again?

4) Will she ever really lose those feelings for the OM that she still has?

5) Will my heart ever heal?

6) Should I have OM fired from his job?

7) I feel forced into this house, what should I have done?

1) Should I just say screw it and take the promotion in Florida and bail on the new house?
What about POJA? I get the sense Cindy is not too keen on FL. Did you POJA?

2) Cindy keeps telling me she does not love me, can love really be born out of the ashes of a bad Marriage?
I have the same question. Sorry. Evidence on this board seems to indicate that it can.

3) Will I ever trust her again?
Trust is a degree thing. I trust you with my home phone number. I don't trust you with my bank account number. She has quite a bit to earn back. But that can be done. The speed it occurs will depend on her effort and your forgiveness.

4) Will she ever really lose those feelings for the OM that she still has?
Yes.

5) Will my heart ever heal?
Yes. But there might be a scar.

6) Should I have OM fired from his job?
C'mon Mike. Enjoy the fantasy, but you have more honor than this. Win your wife back. He'll get his due.

7) I feel forced into this house, what should I have done?
Reference #1 above. Again, POJA. Do a benefit/cost thing with Cindy. A house/career change is a HUGE decision. Have mom and dad watch the little Schluters and take her away. Nice dinner on Friday, sit at a table in your hotel room and start listing benefits and costs to new house/Florida job. If you reach an impasse, you can always flip a coin. Personally, I think it should be your call on the house/job thing. I agree with coach, bad idea. She needs to understand WHY you feel that way. Probably does. I don't know. These ones that are so close to the boundaries are the hard calls. On the one hand, she kind of owes you some comfort zone. But on the other, you can't hold the A over her head forever. Since I haven't successfully recovered myself, I can't really comment where in recovery her bending over backwards to protect your safety ends. It should lessen as time goes on, she is a person and forgiveness for an affair does not equal indentured servitude. Just some things to think about.

NCWalker

Michael,

It's so good to see you posting again. I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can. These are tough ones so bear w/me.

1) If you're trying to work at recovery, then moving out of state leaving your kids w/o their mother is a mistake IMO. Others may disagree & say that this is one of the consequences she would receive from her actions; however, I don't think it's right to ever leave a mother w/o her children, no matter what she's done. I'll leave that one to the others I guess. Still undecided.
2) Love can be rekindled. It did for me. So I'm living proof. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LB made it specifically clear when he moved in here that he was giving it the 2 years as recommended, but if he still had any signs of not loving me, he was out of here. He slept on the couch for the first month, he wasn't very "touchy-feely", you name it. But now, over a yr later, he's the first one to say ILY & MEAN it. No one can say for certain though what Cindy's intentions are except for Cindy. She's the one who knows if she WANTS to get the love back.
3) Yes, you can trust her again - w/time. Time is that age-old ugly word that no one wants to hear, but it's so true. The more consistent Cindy is, the more you will regain trust. The more Cindy is where she says she is going to be, the more she says what she means, the more she can *prove* she's telling the truth, the more trustworthy she can become. This is up to her though. She needs to be the one to regain the trust.
4) Withdrawal, from what I hear, is very powerful. I think she's slowly starting to realize that she meant nothing to him & that has got to hurt her, and the more she realizes that she was used, the more angry she'll become w/him until she starts to see that you are the one who has been there, that you are the one who has stood by her side this whole time & you are the one who TRULY loves her.
5) Yes, your heart will heal. Don't know about the M at this point, but I definitely know that you WILL heal from this. Healing is a process. And you're working through the process. Just give yourself a break. Don't be too hard on yourself. A's destroy a person & that's a lot to rebuild inside.
6) At this point, I think that might be considered vindictive.
7) I'm unsure how to answer this. I'll let the others try to tackle it. Can't have all the answers or they'd be knocking down my door all the time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Looks like you have a long road ahead. Be prepared to saddle up for a ride! And we'll be here to help you get through it. And you know, you can always i/m me or LB to talk or e-mail.

{{{Mike}}} from me & a good 'ole hand shake from LB.

Not A good Day at all.....


Cindy wants to move to her mom's and take the kids. She needs my permission to do this even though if CPS finds out they will remove the kids and place them in foster care until I can be reached. Should I let her do this.

Today she has been very hostile in nature. We have been arguing off and on all day. Today when the kids got home they were told there were going to reside with her and they were not happy at all.

My daughter and Son are very upset and my five yr old is showing tension on his face as well as his bahavior.

Help Help Help Help


I can't fix this anymore. I can't understand who she is anymore or what she really wants out of this Marriage if anything.

She make me feel like i'm the one one who had the Affair and need to say sorry for casuing her to have it.

Help Help Help

Michael, Cindy is mentally ill. My diagnosis.

GC

If the safety of the children is even in question, protect the family.

Under no conditions, AND I MEAN NONE, does the COMFORT of a parent come before the SAFETY of the children.

Get the children to a safe place, THEN deal with the parent.

If you TRULY have the children's best interests at heart, and not malice towards your spouse (not saying you do, giving you a litmus test) she should forgive any action that is motivated in that way.

NCWalker

Mike,
As much as I would like to see you and Cindy repair the damage done to each other and go on together to make this marriage work, I have to tell you that the strong pragmatic side of me keeps yelling, (not whispering mind you but YELLING!) take the job in Florida. Get out while the getting is good!

So many advantages to moving down here but most important, it would be a so much easier and better life for you and the kids. And if Cindy can’t deal with that reality then for me, it would be just too bad.

From where I’m standing, it‘s time for Cindy to bite the bullet and put her self out a little bit. And if she decided not to come along, well that would be a deal breaker for me. Sorry, Mike, in this particular instance I don’t believe she deserves your willingness to compromise.
Coach

Cindy made it very clear that she will not move to Florida because it takes her away from her family and friends.

She wants to try again to save the M....

She is like a junky on crack the way she goes back and forth.

I made it clear that I'm getting tired of this crap and that her back and forth is tearing up the kids.

One night she told the kids she was leaving...

I have know idea what she thinks any more.

Mike,
So here’s my very un-MB feelings about what’s going on. Move to Florida and let Cindy go where the hell she wants with who the hell she wants and when the hell she wants.

So she doesn’t want to leave her friends and family? Those would be the same friends and family that supported her during her affair I would assume? Hummmm, very important to the marriage for her to stay in contact with these good people I guess? Right!

Mike, be smart for a change and do what’s best for you and the kids. If you have good job offered to you down here (Florida) then this is a great place to be. My G-D, she can’t even decide to work on the marriage and now you’re moving practically next door to the OM? And why? Because Cindy is in love with the house? Excuse me Mike but I always thought that it was her husband that she was suppose to love…not the house.

Sorry young brother, this mess is getting more and more convoluted as time goes on. Cindy is sounding like to much of an emotional investment for to little return…for you, but mostly for the children….and even for herself.

Things can’t change for Cindy until she decides to makes changes in herself. Mean while you have the children to think about. Get going while the going is good.

My advice, take the job in Florid and move on ASAP.

So sorry.
Coach

Coach,

Please give me a day to answer your post. I need to really dig deep to answer your questions and to also make sure I am being really true to myself..

Thank you
Michael

Well I took some of your advice and told Cindy that if she no longer wanted to be here that she should do what she has to do and that if she wants the Marriage then to start acting like it.

Her response was "I don't know if I do or not"

I was more then a little upset but hey what can I do like all of you have told me in the past. I need to think about the children and be the best person I can be.

If Cindy wants to be the walk out type and give up thats something she will have to live with for the rest of her life.

I do know for a fact that if she should decide to leave I will never let her back again and I will move on with my life and raise my children as a great Single dad with three wonderful children who will always remeber how much I gave for them.

My Daughter told me today that she respects me for all I have done to save are family. i got teary eyed and thanked her.

Not really sure where Cindy wants things to go with us but I do know that she is not trying like a person who regrets what they have done.

More like a survivor...

Happy Memorial Day Michael. Thanks for your service.

I hope Cindy gets some counseling. I think she could use it.

GC

To all,

Well as most of you can tell, I have been off line for some time now and I just wanted to say hello.

Things with me and Cindy have not been so good and me of course, well thats another story all together.

So how are of you these days.

Michael,
I know I for one have been thinking of you, and I am sure many others have as well.
Give some details...
How are YOU doing?

i am another that has been thinking and praying for you both.

Michael,

You know you can always e-mail me or Lost_boyz anytime. You still have our e-mails. Been thinking about you. Let us know what's going on & how we can help.