I am going to start this thread because I stole someone elses thread and felt bad... Sorry MarkNY ;-)

here are the meaningful posts... I would love to hear some of your thoughts on this... I must add one thing... she now admits that she was in a wrong relationship... just because we were married... but the feelings that she had and still does is that she would not be with him as a spouse or mate... just very close intimate friends... and she sees that she made a mistake in putting that friendship above our marriage and if she chooses to stay with me that things will have to change but she is saying that one of the reasons that she cannot face the future is that I am going to control her and that relationship... and all the rest of the aspects of life... and I say that is not true... I cannot let something that is wrong for a marriage go on ... that is not being controlling... that is setting boundaries...

She says NC is in place...


ME:
The difference and my hardest thing to swallow {and I cannot get anyone to reply or get me info on} is... my wife says she heard from God a week or two before we got married that she was not supposed to marry me... and that she is living a life of you reap what you sow... so she is living a life of torment and consequences...

How can I argue that? Other than to say God doesn't work like that...

You can call it fog talk... but it might be true... I kinda feel a shock when she says it... like something kinda rings true...

I can look back and see that some of the way that I was critical of her was because I was feeling how can she be doing things like this and really love me... and I lost hope that I would have my needs met by her... was I in denial?

What if the whole 12 years of marriage was living a life of just getting by because she rolled with the punches and thought that was her lot in life and never loved me but thought that she was obligated to stay... especially after we had Kids... and that further trapped her...

What am I to do... force her to love me... what if she does like she says she might do... just stay in it for the kids... and not give herself to me... and die inside...

Am I obligated to take her as a wife when she is not choosing to be my wife fully...

I do not want to force a person to be something they are not and make them force feelings for me...

I believe that God can change us and make us grow to love... but she has no intention of that if she stays... she will just be a shell of a wife... if she even decides to stay...

She is really into us separating for her to see what she wants to do for the rest of her life...

I feel I am the only one around here that might think that what she says has some truth...

I cannot find one book that talks about trying to make a relationship work if there was never true love on one parties part in the first place... they all talk or repairing love... restoring love... etc... what if there was never any love or any real feelings for me...

What would a christian counselor like H say?


Sorry to steal you post but people have stopped replying to me... and I had to vent...

Thanks for listening

Stormy:
Oh My Gosh!!!!!! My HUsband has said the exact same thing. And I will respond to that ,from talking to many preachers, pastors, adn elders, I now understand that God's Grace is sufficient. Once you marry that person it then becomes God's Plan. You turn to and rely on God. You still follow all of God's commandments. If you will turn it over to God and start being obident to him then you can have an awesome Godly marriage, but when you choose to still be disobedient to God (cheat, lie, not treat your spouse in a Godly manner) then you put a curse on the marriage that God so badly desires to bless. God can take what the devil intended for evil and turn it into good, but you must be obedient and follow the Lord's ways. Posts: 55 | Registered: Aug 2004 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stormydakota
Member
Member # 37059

Also, one more thing if God told her not to marry you and she now claims she did not even love you at that time then why does she say she married you? If God tells you not to marry someone and you do not even love that person I do not understand what motivation, why you would want to, marry that person. It does not make sense. I have a Christian friend who was deeply in love with a nice guy who was not a believer, She now admits that God told her not to marry him. She says she did not listen to God because she was in love and she was selfish. She wanted to marry the man she loved regardless. It was more important to her than listening to and obeying God. From not listening to God they have had many hard times and struggles, but she ended up giving it all to God. Now they are working things out together because God's Grace is sufficient.


ME:
Stormy... thanks for the encouragement... she admits her motives were wrong... that she was rebelling against her parents... and liked me ... but didn't know what true love was... and couldn't force herself to love me... and now she thinks she is being punished... for not obeying God...

She says her life is doomed... it will be a sucky road either way... to have to conform to a marriage she doesn't want... and give up herself... and die on the inside... or to divorce and try to live a single parent life...

SHE IS TRAPPED IN A CORNER!!!

Both options make her feel trapped in this life that she doesn't want anymore...

And she hates me for pressuring her... to talk out things and go to counseling...

She says it would be easier for everyone if she were to check out... S word... I cannot even say it... that way I could move on in life with the kids and she wouldn't have to struggle for the rest of her life... and she started crying... and I said... I don't think that that is going to help our kids... and she said whatever and said it is an option... not that she is doing it... but I cannot take away her options and control her...

So I am really in a bind here... I know God would bless us for staying together... but that is not why she would stay... she would only stay for the kids and give nothing to me...

She sees no hope...

I am not sure where to go from here... do I give her space as in a separation... or do I make her try to love me...

sorry... not make her love me... ask her to try to love me with God's help... and grace... wow... can't believe I typed it like that... that is not what I meant


Stormy: "She says her life is doomed... it will be a sucky road either way... to have to conform to a marriage she doesn't want... and give up herself... and die on the inside... or to divorce and try to live a single parent life.."

At this point she is choosing to be very, very selfish. There is another option Ii she would give it God and start following his ways it would be possible for her to fall deeply in love with you. God's Grace is always sufficient. Before you take any advice (especially from me, my marriage is in horrible shape) pray about it and ask God for wisdom. I personally would try James Dobson's advice from his book about Tough Love. For example telling her something like I love you and I wish are marriage could work. But, since you are miserable and unhappy with me I want you to be free, let's seperate. If later on you change your mind and are willing to agree to my terms then at that time we can try to make it work. For example your terms could be : individual counseling, marriage counseling, attending a married couple Bible study together, and treating me with the dignity and respect that I deserve. If when you have your freedom you decide you want to be single I will sadly accept it. At some point if you do not choose to try and make our marriage work I will sadly move on. I do warn you that many people think the grass is greener on the other side only to find out they were wrong and our left with regrets and sadness. It sad when people wait to realize what they had until it was gone.

But, that is just my advice. It has not worked forme, but from what I have seen it works for the huge majority of people who try it and stick with it.

ME: I must apologize to mark once again... but I need to reply to stormy...

I totally agree... It is kind of a plan b mixed with a CS controlled separation... give her space out of love and let her make her decision...

My mother just bought me Love Must be Tough... I will start reading it tonight... she also bought me a book to give my wife... but I am not sure if I should give it to her ... I do not want to pressure her with all these how to save a marriage ... and how to revive love... they seem to not apply... if she never truly loved me... but the book is The Walk Out Woman... by Steve Stephens and Alice Gray... I do not recognize the book and I don't think that others have talked about it around here...

Any thoughts?

Here's the best insight you're gonna get > You're trying to apply logic to her illogic. Re-read Rule #1.

Then get a copy of "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman.

You'll save yourself a lot of needless anguish - trying to reason with an alien abductee. It can't be done.

Well, many of the things you have mentioned sound very familiar to me.

If you want to continue that is your choice
If you want to hit the raod that is also your choice
Which is best for you?

If YOU choose to save your marriage then you need to be working on yourself and ignore most of what your wife says and does.

The marriage is NOT over until one or the other of you decide to hit the road.

If she is sticking around there is a reason and you need to take that opportunity to do your best to make yourself a better husband/father.

It could take months but if you put in the hard work then your wife will most probably come around and eventually and SLOWLY become part of the marriage again.

Good luck and blessings to you.

DH,

You can't make anyone love you. The hope is she will turn around and try to find the love she once had for you. Must been some to get married in the first place. My wife has said similar - 'I think I married you to get out of my mother's house'. Probalbly some truth to that, doesn't evryone want to leave home sometime. I too feel her 'friend' is a higher priority than us. I'd be willing to bet she'd do just about anything to get him back in her life. I mention marriage counselling, she says no. If he said do it she'd find the therapist, make the appointments, and file the insurance claims.

She had a deep attachment to him. Deeper than she probably realized. I also see some of her side. I had a friend die when I was a teenager and I would have done anything to bring him back. Meanwhile I hadn't hung out with him for weeks. It's when you realize its over that the hurt really starts.

At least your wife is stasrting to see her thing was not quite right. Mine realizes I felt threatened, hurt, etc. But she doesn't care, she sites that as 'proof' her love for me has died.

I just want this pain to end yesterday. Even if I went home tonight and she greeted me with open arms and made love I'd still be hurting. She's done so much damage to me mentally over the last couple of months I'm starting to think its hopeless, but yet I hold on to hope.

If this works out, it will be a long slow road back.

Below is the last e-mail that I sent.

Is she a Christian , does she have a personal relationship with God, does she believe in the power of God?

I do believe that a person makes a choice to try and love someone. My parents are divorced. I am Caucasion and my Dad remarried a lady from India. With the exception of their marriage everyone she is related to is in an arranged marriage. Out of all of those couples only one is divorced. The others are overall happily married couples. Try not to get caught up in the fact that she says she never loved you. She is confused and acting very selfish at this time. Later on she could realize that she was wrong that she did love you or she could choose to open herself up to the idea of loving you. My Husband will say he has never loved me, then he says he loves me one day and the next day he will say he hates me & can not stand me . I do not put much value in what he says while he is living his life this way. The way I see it until he truly knows the love of God and truly loves and respects himself how can he love anyone.

Ditto to WAT. Who cares why she married you? The point is, she did. Marriage is a commitment to love. It's not the consecration of our hormones. Many marriages begin with very little of those hormonal highs -- arranged marriages, for example.

She's got you tangled up in the spaghetti of her confused feelings.

When the fog of the A clears and withdrawal is complete, then maybe you can sort some of this out. Then you can figure out what God said. Don't waste time on it till then.

posted March 02, 2005 01:01 PM                     
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"Ditto to WAT. Who cares why she married you? The point is, she did. Marriage is a commitment to love." I agree with that 110%!!!!!!!!!! It is sad that so many people do not honor the commitment that they have made. The commitment is till death do us part not till I change my mind or have lust for another.

Think back over your last 12 years together. Do you really think that she never loved you? That's a long time to be with someone that you don't love. It's hard to remember the good times while you are going through the bad times, but I would bet there were lots of good times. The feelings of love can and do come back. Me and my H are living proof of that. He moved back in November and we had our baby in December. After that we spent almost every moment of the next 8 weeks together. On New Years he told me that he loved me again, that was after not hearing it since May. Every day we are getting closer and closer. Back in May he was talking divorce and how to raise a child apart, now he talks about having another baby!

It is awesome to hear a success story! Thanks for sharing it!

I agree....fog talk, and you believe it, because she's NOT lying to you....that's the way she feels at this moment. Did she never love you? Probably not, they re-write history.

My WH just clings to the fact that the stupid house wasn't clean....he brings it up every 5 minutes. And when he sees the changes in me....things he'd asked me to change or wanted to see changed, and I've done them now....he says "Why are you doing it now, you never did it when we were together" And yet I keep plugging away. The changes I have made are not ONLY for him. My house is now immaculate....did I do this for him? NO, he doesn't even live here...I recognized it as a fault I had, and I changed it. I have been doing my hair and make up everyday.....am I doing this for him? Yes and no....He likes to see me done up, BUT I also feel better when I've done my hair/make up...so it's not entirely unselfish.

My WH has a line of bullcrap a mile wide, but you see I recognize it as such. He tells me he's not in love with me...Okay...sure. He tells me that he can never feel the same about me...I beg to differ. They ALL say these things to justify the A to themselves...so let her babble, let her make everything your fault...you know it's not true.

-Caren

To Devastated Hubby I could not agree more with what everyone is telling you "My WH has a line of bullcrap a mile wide, but you see I recognize it as such. He tells me he's not in love with me...Okay...sure. He tells me that he can never feel the same about me...I beg to differ. They ALL say these things to justify the A to themselves...so let her babble, let her make everything your fault...you know it's not true" Read and reread statements like this . It is not you. It is her. She is in a fog.

I will try to take your words... my wife just called me and asked if it would be a big deal if she went out to finish her assignment for this weeks counseling... she is to bring up how she wants this separation to go... Controlled Separation...

She is going to do it... but she says she is pretty much ready to take her lot in life and accept that she will pretty much have to stay because of the kids and die to herself... and give up her new found self... which I know is not true... but she will not hear that...

And then she asked me what she HAD to do considering her talking to her counselor about the OM... last night when we had a long conversation... heated on her part... I asked her if our counselors can chat about the OM... that if we were to move forward she needed to tell her counselor the real truth about him... so she could see why I have been the way I have been the last few years... and also see why my wife is in denial... and in a fog...

So it sounds like she is going to tell her counselor about OM. and then agree to let our counselors talk...

She is doing this because I said either we talk to counselors to see what is right to do concerning telling others about the affair... people that should no... or I just go and talk to them on my own terms... I said if I had wrong motive then they would tell us... and if they tell you that what you did improper... then they can counsel us and tell us how we should go about handling things

I don't think that they would have us sit on these things and bring them back up after a month of separation... I think they would say things need to put out on the table now instead of later...

Then you will know it is not just me...


Stormy... the answer to all your questions is yes... that is what baffles me... she is just not wanting to hear things... and she is letting lies twist things... like God is punishing her for marrying me... and she will be punished from here on out... if she stays with me or not... because if she leaves she will have new punishment... like having to work... low income... single mother type of stuff... so now she is trying to decide between the lesser of her two evils... even though they are warped twisted views...

I think that this is the first time that I know of that she thinks God will not help her... maybe because she feels that she has been abandoned by him for not fixing her and I along time ago...

The funny thing is that up till now... she has been a stronger spiritual person... not a good thing that I wasn't the S leader in my house... but she is now fading... and she is mad at me for clinging and pulling on God to help me through this... and counting on him to make this marriage right...

Gotta run

I'm curious about how she got so mixed up about God's involvement in this.

Of course she's not happy. God gave us a perfectly good set of clear rules to live by as married people and she is not following them. She apparently has put those aside? And expects God to bless her?

Ummmm....

dewt

posted March 02, 2005 04:37 PM                     
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I will try to take your words... my wife just called me and asked if it would be a big deal if she went out to finish her assignment for this weeks counseling... she is to bring up how she wants this separation to go... Controlled Separation...
She is going to do it... but she says she is pretty much ready to take her lot in life and accept that she will pretty much have to stay because of the kids and die to herself... and give up her new found self... which I know is not true... but she will not hear that...
And then she asked me what she HAD to do considering her talking to her counselor about the OM... last night when we had a long conversation... heated on her part... I asked her if our counselors can chat about the OM... that if we were to move forward she needed to tell her counselor the real truth about him... so she could see why I have been the way I have been the last few years... and also see why my wife is in denial... and in a fog...
So it sounds like she is going to tell her counselor about OM. and then agree to let our counselors talk...
She is doing this because I said either we talk to counselors to see what is right to do concerning telling others about the affair... people that should no... or I just go and talk to them on my own terms... I said if I had wrong motive then they would tell us... and if they tell you that what you did improper... then they can counsel us and tell us how we should go about handling things
I don't think that they would have us sit on these things and bring them back up after a month of separation... I think they would say things need to put out on the table now instead of later...
"she is letting lies twist things... like God is punishing her for marrying me... and she will be punished from here on out... if she stays with me or not... because if she leaves she will have new punishment... like having to work... low income... single mother type of stuff."

That is very warped. God wants to bless her marriage. She is blocking his blessings by refusing to follow his ways. She is suppose to treat you with respect and diginity regardless if she thinks she loved you or not.

This may sound harsh, but soem women want a man that they see as a "manly" man. And there view of a "manly" man is twisted. To me a "manly" man is a Godly man who will go to all ends to save his marriage. To her maybe a "manly" man is one who won't put up with her ,excuse my language, crap. She is wallowing in a fog of selfishness and self pity. You should work your marriage out. Let no man put asunder want God has brought together, but in my opinion (I could easily be wrong because my marriage is not working) you should not let her live with you until she is ready to show you some respect. Do not let her use you for your money and laziness of not wanting to work. Maybe let her try it on her own, while still praying God will convict her heart to be a Godly wife. Only provide the financial support you are legally suppose to. While she is gone go out and have fun. Maybe join a gym and get a trainer, or buy a boat and start fishing, start a Bible Study for Godly Fathers, buy some paint guns and get into paintball shooting, etc. Just find soemthings that interest you and try them out. Let her see that even though you love her and wish it would work that you can survive without her. You love her, but you have grown to love God first and regardless of your circumsttances you will not let the Devil still all of your joy. She is a women and she has to realize how many singlw women out there would do almost anything to find a good single man who values commitment. Let her see what she has to lose. She admits at one point she liked you. Even if she says it I very seriously doubt she would want to lose a man that she liked and invested so much into to another women. Start ,in a Godly , kind way standing up for yourself. Let her know you expect to be treated with diginity. If she sees you valuong and respecting yourself she might start doing the same. My gut tells me that she keeps half way holding on to you because soemwhere deep down she is afraid to completely lose you.

Stormy we are thinking on the same page...

Believe me I have plenty of hobbies... I play pool on tuesday nights... I race motorcycles... in the dirt and street... I used to build Hot Rods... I used to play paintball on a team... I play ping pong... I have my own bowling ball... I played darts for a while... I play video games... I build home theaters on the side for money so she can be a stay home mother.... I build things... like our house, furniture, etc :-) I go to the Gym 3 days a week at lunch... I can come up with more if you like...

I can keep myself busy... but not at her expense... I will never again put things or activities before her if we work these things out...

She knows I can make it on my own no problem... that is a sore subject... she tells me it is so unfair that I can just go on in life without her because I am so independent and can do anything... and she feels she can do nothing... she doesn't know how to live by herself and take care of life... she feels less than and stupid because she never had to live on her own and learn to live life...

I know she knows what is right... but is not easy for her to come to terms on where she has been... how I have been and where we need to go...

She is angry at Me, others that tell her she needs to make it work... and the scariest to me... God...

She feels trapped and betrayed by all i believe and has very low self esteem and self worth at this point... she is at the lowest of lows... and I feel for her I really do... but I am not going to roll over for her and do what I know is wrong and let this marriage fail... I will everything I can... if that means living separate for a while so she can feel independent and let some steam off... then I will do that...

I am at the point that I am pretty much going to go along with the CS for whatever time we agree upon... and then tell her she can come back when she chooses our marriage and to treat me with respect... and the little love that she can find....

We will see!

You have a kind and generous heart. God will bless you for that. You can tell in your writing that you really love her. I wish she would wake out of the fog soon and realize how lucky she is to be so deeply loved by her Husband. I wish and pray so badly that my Husband would truly love me. Yes, you have made miistakes in the past, buy you are sorry and willing to change your ways. That is what counts.

Thank you very much for the kind words... sometimes when I don't get reassurance I start to believe the lies that are hitting her...

I hope that God and Love can keep this marriage going and make it better than ever...

A friend said something like this... the devil must really think that your marriage has so much potential to hit you guys this hard...

I feel he may be right...

I just hope she will come to see these things soon... before she makes some half thought out decision.. based on lies from the devil.

"A friend said something like this... the devil must really think that your marriage has so much potential to hit you guys this hard..."

I like that a lot!!!!!!!! I have told my Husband before (he had a very difficult/hard/unfair childhood) something similar. The devil must know that your life is meant for greatness and that you will help bring many others to God. For that reason he has tried to attack and destroy you so much. Do not let the devil win. I do not know if it helps him or not, but I honestly believe it.

Minor update...

Thursday she went to counseling and spilled the beans... to her counselor... and said that I am forcing her to address the OM issue... and she told her counselor her side of things... and I could tell that she did not fully explain the situation... and she said her counselor said she understood why she felt the way she does.. that I am spying on her and invading her privacy and such... and that I am prolly not the kind of guy that can change that...

I said *&%^$... I did not want to do this stuff.. I saw something wrong that you were doing that was effecting me and the family and did what I had to do...

I asked her how I SHOULD have handled her and this situatiuon and she looked with a blank stare... and said I do not want to tell you...

I moved on... I know there is no other logical way I could have done things... I tried to ask her to stop it and she told me I was crazy... so I had to keep my eye on things and call a spade a spade...

She said again... what she did was wrong only because she was/is married... and right now she is deciding if she is going to stay married or not...

She also said that she will come back from CO and all four of us...her, I , counselors... will talk out the OM issue and talk about seperation...

She said one of the deciding factors will be how I have treated her about the OM issue... that she will not be told that she can not relate to him as a friend... that she cannot live under that kind of control...

She said she is thinking that she needs to leave without the kids (even though that will kill her) and go make her decision... if she wants to live for herself... or to die to herself and life a life of torment for her kids...

I don't even know what to say to her on that...

Have you tried Tough Love in your situation. I really think if you tried it and stuck to it (if she had a fear of losing you or a fear that you are losing interest in her) that she would do a huge turn around.