</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, I can definately add a third but then I draw a blank.
...
3) We must be honest and open to each other about our emotional needs. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay. remember, this is a negotiation for the end of the affair. What else needs to happen?

What are you bringing back to the marriage for your part?

Gimble

Foglight,

Sorry I couldn’t post to you earlier, things have been a little hectic lately! I have just finished reading this thread and updated myself on the latest progress (since Friday).

I’m glad you had a nice weekend with your family. This is good and I’m happy for you BUT I have to agree with Gimble that your W is not to be trusted yet. But you already know that – like you’ve said, your W IS still in an EA. As long as there is still contact with the OM, you and your W can’t start ‘real’ recovery. Recovery starts as soon as all contact between the WS and OP ends.

However, I really think you’ve made GREAT progress since you’ve move back home… As Gimble said, now you can start working on a plan to negotiate the end of your W’s A. Post your suggestions and we can help you with it.

I was just wondering - what happened with the ‘boundary’ in the bed? Is it still there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care (I will post again tomorrow from work).

Suzet

Hi Suzet, Boundry is gone and WW is now a cuddle queen!! At least for the last few days.

Gimble, I guess I'm ignorant when it comes to this, that's why I have relied so much on you, WAT and Suzet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Hi Suzet, Boundry is gone and WW is now a cuddle queen!! At least for the last few days.

Gimble, I guess I'm ignorant when it comes to this, that's why I have relied so much on you, WAT and Suzet. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, so let's get you educated.

What have you read book wise?

Have you read ALL the information/articles on the main Marriage Builders site?

You need to go into this with a plan. No offense meant, but your previous modus operandi in your marriage has likely been one of conflict avoidance. In order to facilitate your new strength, you need to be well versed with the subject at hand - affairs in this case.

This will help you feel strong and it will help you field whatever curve gets thrown your way.

You are still fighting for your marriage. The other man feels his grip lessening, he is going to start trying harder. Your wife is going to love the increased attention from BOTH of her 'men'. IF that bothers you, and I am sure that it does, then let's get on with the learning process and see about getting the other man the hell out of your relationship.

Gimble

Gimble I have listened to all of HNHN CD, have read 50% of LB and I am on chapter 5 in SAA. I will find more time to finish LB and SAA. I am reading MB site articles during lunch.

FL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble I have listened to all of HNHN CD, have read 50% of LB and I am on chapter 5 in SAA. I will find more time to finish LB and SAA. I am reading MB site articles during lunch.

FL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good deal. You might want to finish SAA first, along with the articles on this site.

Do make sure that the steely-eyed hero is the guy that goes home from the office tonight. The touchy/feely/grabby/needy guy has left the building, hopefully permanently.

Please be thinking about the negotiation. We can discuss it more tomorrow.

All the best,
Gimble

Just read this whole thread. What a turn around!
Nice job FL!!!! You payed attention to advice and executed most of it and it payed off big. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Keep up the good work.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: RacerX fka:SISF ]</small>

FogLight - time to report in, man!

How is it going?

Gimble

Hey Gimble, I'm here. Yesterday I didn't post was very busy at work. WW emailed me several times yesterday and called to ask me to lunch. We met for lunch and discussed going on a cruise in June. We have never been and WW has always wanted to go, but I was against it. Now I'm trying to put it together for us (changed man you know) She seems very upbeat about it. WW came home on time this week every day so far! Cell phone's key pad locked again however. We are still sleeping together, hugs & kisses & cuddling. I can still see that look off in the distance every now and then though. Have been able to read the next chapter in SAA and I am on the verge of discussing NC with OM but still reluctant.

Foglight, it’s good to hear from you – I also thought it was time for you to report back in again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Overall things sound very good between you and your W. Her e-mails, invitations to lunch, hugs, kisses, willingness to go on a cruise with you etc. are all VERY good signs and very promising! It’s also good that you’re planning this cruise for you and your W. You will certainly make a BIG deposit in her love bank with this! Good for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> However, its clear that she is still in contact with OM (locked key pad) and you still can’t trust her. The ‘look off in the distance’ every now and then is also an indicator that she is still very much attached and addicted to the OM mentally and emotionally. As long as she is still in contact with OM she can’t start the withdrawal process and begin her personal recovery to ‘get over’ OM and her addiction to him. Your reluctance to discuss this with you W is understandable, but it is a topic you need to raise one or other time.

What happened with the plan A letter? Did you give it to your W to read yet? I was thinking…maybe if you haven’t give that letter to your W yet, you can use it as an opportunity to address this issue on NC in the letter as well. Or maybe you can write your W a separate letter and explain your feelings regarding this in a letter. Maybe you can use a letter as a first step to raise this topic with her. Just a suggestion.

Blessings,
Suzet

Do you have access to the cell phone records? Will you be able to see the call list?

WAT

Suzet the letter is certainly a good idea at this point. I need to revise it now.

WAT - Cell phone records are only available for this month on the next billing cycle which will be the 1st of April. As long as WW doesn't change the password and login. WW doesn't know I have that info.

FL

REVISED LETTER TO WW:

Dear <WW>,

Please take the time to read this letter and understand that it comes from my heart.
I think of you often during the day and I am writing this to let you know how I feel.

As I've said before, I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship. I am painfully aware that I was not meeting your needs as a husband and I apologize for my part in creating an environment that facilitated the crisis we now face.

I have grown tremendously from this experience and I ask you to open your mind and see the changes for yourself. <SON> and I are closer than ever and I realize that I was not the best father that I could be and how much he needs me at this stage in his life. I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized my negative contributions as a husband. I am also working on my abilities to provide the emotional needs that you have. Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I feel much better about myself as a person and as an individual.

During this experience my efforts have been on changing me, not on blaming anyone else expecting them to change. I am the only person I can change. I know I have other improvements to make - an In short, I will avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and we can create a new life for the three of us that will meet all of our needs. It won't happen overnight and it'll take a lot of work, but we owe it to <SON> and ourselves to try hard to make it work.

<SON> and I are the two men who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories for the foundation of a family. You can make the two of us very, very happy. We want you and need you. I will do my uttermost best to support any need you have to the best of my ability and in a non-judgmental way. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you’re not sure, I will try to understand. In order for us to reconcile completely and begin to build a lasting relationship you will have to stop all contact with the other man completely.

Whenever you are ready to talk, I'll be ready to listen. I loved you when I married you and I love you to this day. I am willing to do whatever it takes to put our family back together. I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage so that we meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new relationship in which everything we do makes all three of us happy.

I am here for you and I love you,


<ME>

Comments?? Suzet, WAT, Gimble,

FL

Foglight,

I think the letter is perfect. You also touch the subject on NC with the OM short and to the point (perfect for the purpose of this letter) and now this will give you the opportunity to discuss this further with your W face-to-face (or in another letter if you’ll find it better/more comfortable at this point). Next time the issue on NC came up, you can start to express your feelings to your W and let her understand how painful and hurtful continuous contact with OM will be to you personally. At some stage she will also have to send a NC-letter to OM, but that's for the future... Let’s focus on the other things first.

Suzet

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Thanks Suzet

FL

ditto Suz and I'm not so sure contacting OM is still a good idea. A huge love buster and maybe not necessary depending on the extent of her further attitude shift - unless this plays out as merely a manipulation tactic on her part. That's why I asked about the phone records.

WAT

Hi, FogLight

I don't think that contacting the other man is a good idea. He gets some satisfaction thinking that he is powerful enough to warrant your attention. Don't feed that. The only contact you need with the other man is the 'No Contact' letter that you are going to send him, signed by your wife.

Quote:
========================
... I apologize for my part in creating an environment that facilitated the crisis we now face.
========================

I would change facilitated to "contributed to". Double check your grammar and spelling then fire it off :-)

Oh, and make sure that you call the other man "other man" in the letter. Nothing demeaning, Don't use his name.

Gimble

OK Gimble, I changed that word and its printed. Now:

1. Should I give this to her in person?

2. Put it in her car to find?

3. Email?

??

FL

What happened to her trip?

Consider giving her a printed copy in a touchy feely card?

This is where you need Suz'z input. Again, we guys can really screw this up.

WAT - the trip is still on. Detroit Mar 29th & 30th Pittsburg Mar 31 to April 3rd and this is legit. I checked reservations again and no OM so far.

Also, I have been giving her touchy feely cards off and on. I have been putting photos of us together inside of them. WW thanks me for them and it starts conversation about that period in time the photo was taken. Touch/Feel card is what I actually had in mind!

FL