Pep,

I just now saw your post. Geez! Lucky for me, I am NOT feeling weak and sensitive...

Fact is, I didn't find MB until after I got married. Fact is, I'm already married - mistake or no. IS IT a mistake??? If it turns out to be wonderful - THEN is it a mistake? Might have been risky, but only time will truly tell if it was a mistake or not.

I am not PISSED at myself for getting married! I'm PISSED at myself for being so blind to what was going on before I got married and for being so damn "in love" and naive! I'm PISSED at him for being so damn immature! I AM PISSED AT OW for preying upon him to get her own worthless needs met.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask yourself " Who is responsible for my current situation?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HE is responsible! OW is responsible! Being married or not has nothing to do with it. I would be hurting just as much either way.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trying to compare your adoptive roots to this situation where you volunteered for this misery is pissing me off</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you can save your piss and vinegar for someone else...I was making no comparison - they were two separate issues and both were on my mind. There is no comparison between the two issues. Searching for my roots has nothing to with evading "today". It is a part of me that has always been missing. I can't search for "happiness roots". There ARE NO ROOTS! Sure, maybe I could achieve happiness from today forward. But you can't make your own roots. They are either there or they aren't. They aren't. I have a RIGHT to know where the hell I came from and the fact that the law says that a lady sitting behind a desk has a right to be privvy to this information and I don't, is just plain wrong. I'm not laying blame for my current unhappiness at my birth parents' feet, nor am I laying it at the feet of my adoptive parents. The blame for my current unhappiness lies at the feet of Patriot and OW - again, these are two SEPARATE issues.

I know I said "I do" - trying to make the best of it.

You got more? I can take it.

Froz

((((FROZ))))

Are you going to be ok? I hope so. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I hope things get better for you and Patriot.

P.S. I DIDN'T volunteer for this misery. As stated, I would be hurting just as badly, regardless of my marital status.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Frozen

I am not going to be nice. If you are feeling weak and sensitive, stop reading NOW.

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If you had posted on MB before you got married ... we MBers would have universally advised you NOT to marry Patriot. Not yet anyway. I would have said you need to wait 2 or 3 YEARS to decide to marry him after discovery of his betrayal.

BUT .... you came to MB after deciding to marry a man who you KNEW betrayed you during courtship.

BIG MISTAKE!

Now you are stuck with your own mistake, not just Patriots affair-mistake.

And it is actually YOURSELF you are pissed off at .... not OW. So just drop all that "nair shampoo" crap.

Ask yourself " Who is responsible for my current situation?"

Answer ---> Frozen made this decision.

So, I for one, am ready for you to take on the responsibility of fixing your mistake.

Trying to compare your adoptive roots to this situation where you volunteered for this misery is pissing me off (I am certain you know my sensitivity for this subject)

Searching for you "roots"???? Why not stand and deal with that which is today and search for you own happiness roots? I guarantee you will NOT be content EVER ... if you continually lay blame for your current unhappiness at the feet of others who may have wronged you in your past.

Powerlessness is currently your garment of choice. And it is ill-fitting on you!

You are married to a man because you said "I do".

NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT FACT?

Are you willing to be married and to make the best of it, or not?

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep:

I find myself disagreeing with you more and more now these days........BUT you slammed this post out of the park. I think one of the things that has been hammered home to me during my recovery is the concept of 100% ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY for one's own life.
I think you Frozen have a lot of misguided anger here. WHile ofcourse your WW is partly responsible for your situation, in the END, it is you Frozen who is 100% responsible for where your life is today. There is no other way around it. You actively CHOSE to marry your WH knowing he was unfaithful. For lack of a nicer way to say it, you now have to deal with those consequences. You can get divorced and move your life on...OR....you can go to MC and try and build a new marriage that is based on trust, faith and love. I think untill you accept 100% responsibility for your life and decisions, you will be "stuck".

I get a lot of $hit on here for not being compassionate enough with people. Well, I just have a tough time doing so nowdays. If a BS KNOWINGLY chooses to reconcile with their WS, they are knowingly accepting the fact that there may be false recoveries, other children, etc....that come about b/c of the affair. While it sucks to be betrayed, how we deal with that betrayal is what is the important thing in life.

I am by no means perfect, and I make mistakes, but I am learning now that my happiness and my life's outcomes are a direct 100% responsibility of what I CHOOSE to do. When you realize this, you gain back all of the power and strength that you may have lost along the way during this infidelity nightmare. If there is one thing that I have learned during this mess, it is that concept of 100% RESPONSIBILITY.

Goodluck to you.

LM

I don't think you guys are hearing me. I do accept full responsibility for being MARRIED in this siutation. I do not, however accept responsibility for the situation (the betrayal). My anger is not misguided. I AM NOT ANGRY THAT I AM MARRIED! I AM ANGRY THAT I WAS BETRAYED! You guys can sit around all day long and discuss my marriage and say "She made a big mistake". Sit in judgement of my decision if you wish. Sure, if my marriage fails, I'll have no one but myself to blame - after all, I did marry him knowing of the betrayal. Don't worry, I won't be looking for sympathy from any of you. But the simple fact remains that I AM married now. I am interested in building a better marriage - not discussing what I should or should not have done.

This situation would exist (the pain of betrayal) whether I were married or not. I chose to stay with him. It hurts sometimes. I don't feel I have anyone to talk to and sometimes the pain is difficult to bear. If it makes me feel better to post about my feelings, I have every right to.

Thanks for your "support".

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

Froz

I think it's good for you to vent here.

I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better but I don't. All I can do is cry and pray for your pain to go away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RHM:
<strong> Froz

I think it's good for you to vent here.

I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better but I don't. All I can do is cry and pray for your pain to go away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RHM:

With all due respect to you (and I know that you mean well), but ***I think*** all the crying and praying for Frozen's pain to go away will not likely chnage anything for her. If what Frozen wants is pity and "support" for people to say they feel sad for her, then she should say so. There is a lot of support for that kind of thinking here. I guess the kind of "support" that Frozen wants is not likely to come from me.

Froz, I am sorry if my posts made you feel even worse. I clearly misinterpreted what you were looking for.

Goodluck.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If it makes me feel better to post about my feelings, I have every right to.

Thanks for your "support".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With all due respect, people that respond to you have as much right to comment in the way that they perceive as being "supportive". You don't get to dictate what type of responses you get.
I think that people are trying to get you to understand that you didn't go into this blind.

You would almost have to expect it.

He was doing this before you got married...you still married him...what makes it different now?

Why do you want to change him when it's obvious this type of behavior is typical of him.

You married him in acceptance of this.

Why do you expect more from him now?

The entire MB concept is not about changing your Husband...it's about changing YOU.

Your happiness is NOT dependent on what he does or doesn't do. Your happiness is dependent on YOU...and the choices or changes that YOU make.

Don't look to him for YOUR happiness.

JMHO
committed

Frozen,
Don't forget to breath!!!
First off, sorry about the 38 thing, I missread sorry,LOL.
--------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry about your 40th birthday. When was it? Interesting that our children are the same ages. We may have to compare notes sometime.
__________________________________________________

In January. It wasn't all bad, just after everyone left. W issues.
I thought it was interesting as well. Are your kids good kids? my oldest (SD) is a very bright, artsy type. she is 10th in her class of 1200 or so, my youngest is into sports, school is just a means to play sports for him.LOL normal teenagers, S goes in to get his driving permit this summer YIKES!!

My sitch is different from most in the fact, I saw it comming and confronted her the day after. And she has gone through the normal stuff I guess, but is working on M together, MC,books, The only real issue I have is her lack of wanting to talk in depth of A. But we are finding ways through MC. I still have my days, but,like I keep saying, I Chose to do this. So whatever it takes.
And as long as she works too, we will be ok.

I have to go, kids wanting to go somewhere, I will post later.

Lemonman,

Your posts did not make me feel worse. They were irrelevant to me because you misunderstood my words.

Whoever defined seeking "support" as seeking pity or sympathy????

The dictionary defines "support" as this:
to aid the cause, policy, or interests of and to strengthen

That's the type of "support" I'm interested in and seeking.

NOT:

-Character assassinations

-Judgements of decisions that have already been made.

-Belittling comments

The kind of "support" I AM interested in receiving is

-Useful ideas and suggestions to help make my marriage better and to help me be a better person and a better wife

-Ideas and suggestions based on MB principles rather than judgemental opinions

-Empathy and understanding (This is a painful situation and sometimes having another's understanding of what I'm going through is helpful - certainly more helpful than unkind and uncaring attitudes)

Lemonman, if another human being wants to pray for me in any capacity, what right do YOU have to tell them it's useless?

I am interested in being happy and strengthening my marriage. It's hard work. Sometimes I feel pretty beat down in the process. Sometimes I need comfort - I'm fairly new here and this situation is pretty damn painful. What right do you have to belittle me for seeking answers or comfort? I was drawn to this forum because I wanted to BUILD my marriage - not tear it down. What words or advice have you offered me that might enable me to do a better job of building my marriage?

Committed,

You sound as though you don't know the full extent of our story. Patriot had an A before we got married. I did choose to marry him. From D-Day on we have both been working hard to rebuild our relationship. There have been no affairs during the time we've been married, to the best of my knowledge. I DO have a right to expect fidelity. I may not have the right to be shocked if it happens again, but this man made vows to me and I do expect him to uphold his vows.

Do you deem me less worthy of fidelity because I made what some here consider a "bad decision"? If another MB'er who chose to stay in a marriage with a spouse who'd been unfaithful experienced a second A, would you then tell them "you would have to almost expect it, so you get no sympathy from me"?

You say this behavior is typical of him? Wow, that's a bit judgemental, isn't it? How do you presume to know what is typical behavior of someone you don't know? I guess you subscribe to the "once a cheater, always a cheater" theory?

I did not marry him in acceptance of his affair. I married him DESPITE it. I took a pretty big risk, admittedly. I believe that if we come out of this having a strong marriage it will have been worth taking the risk. He is a wonderful person with many fine qualities (though obviously not perfect) and he is worth taking a risk on. The message that you and some others are sending me is that he WAS or ISN'T worth the risk. If that's true, then why is anyone here trying to save their marriage? Their WS's have already proven themselves to be a "poor risk". Regardless, whether I should or should not have married him is moot - it's already done. THAT is what I accept. No, I did not go into this blind, nor does any BS on this forum. They go into this fighting for their marriage, and hoping they can make it - just like me.

I came here seeking support and answers. Sure, anyone has the right to respond to my posts in any manner they see fit. I also have a right to defend myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your happiness is NOT dependent on what he does or doesn't do. Your happiness is dependent on YOU...and the choices or changes that YOU make.

Don't look to him for YOUR happiness.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds like pretty constructive advice, and something worth exploration on my part. Any thoughts or ideas you have concerning steps I could take to achieve this would be greatly appreciated.

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> Lemonman,

Your posts did not make me feel worse. They were irrelevant to me because you misunderstood my words.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nahhh Frozen, I think I understand where you are coming from 1000%. I really do. I didn't misunderstand anything. I think actually you did, but we should leave it at that.

Goodluck in your struggles to recover.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There have been no affairs during the time we've been married, to the best of my knowledge.

Then I'm confused... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Your posts read like someone who is still dealing with infidelity.

I apologize for not knowing the entire story. All I have to go on is the place that you are "at" right now...and your posts reflect to me someone that is still dealing with it.

Have you not forgiven him?
Is he still "paying" for it?

When do YOU plan on letting it go?

If he is actively trying to make amends...and is no longer doing it...why are YOU still hanging onto it. A person can only pay so much before it begins to take its toll.

It does not seem fair to him IMHO. You either let it go and move on...or you let him go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You say this behavior is typical of him? Wow, that's a bit judgemental, isn't it? How do you presume to know what is typical behavior of someone you don't know? I guess you subscribe to the "once a cheater, always a cheater" theory? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I assumed that it must be active because of the degree that is bothering you and prompting posts from you. You are living it...in some fashion. It makes me think that you might subscribe to that theory yourself...if you have not let it go yet.

I might be the person that differs from the way alot of people feel here. I think that you can only make the WS "pay" for so long...especially when they are doing their hardest to make amends...to stay on the straight and narrow...and to assure their BS of their fidelity. You cannot live it forever...nor can you make him pay forever.

Now...before you think I am accusing you of that, I will say that I am speaking generally. Only YOU know if that is what you are doing.

committed

Again, I apologize for not knowing the entire story. I was reading your posts and seeing that you were still living it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Do you deem me less worthy of fidelity because I made what some here consider a "bad decision"? If another MB'er who chose to stay in a marriage with a spouse who'd been unfaithful experienced a second A, would you then tell them "you would have to almost expect it, so you get no sympathy from me"?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sympathy is not the topic I am discussing. The topic is ---> moving forward and making the best of your life, dealing with what you've got.

To illustrate my point, I'd like to change Patriot's pre-marital infidelity to ---> pre-marital physical abuse. (to make a point)

Let's pretend for the sake of arguement that you were hit (HARD, like a black eye) by Patriot a month prior to your wedding, and you married him anyway because he had not hit you since.

Now that you ARE married , you complain and hold a grudge about what he did to you (the hitting) prior to your wedding.

Does this make sense to you?

Pep

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Committed,

I don't believe I have forgiven him, though I'm desperately trying to arrive at that point.

I hope I'm not still trying to make him pay for it. I don't think I am, but maybe he would say otherwise - I don't know.

What I do know is that I want to heal. I want to have a strong marriage. Sometimes I know where I need to be, but am struggling to deal with my emotions and have no idea HOW to get there. I post to find answers, I read to find them, and I continue to try to meet his needs and be open and honest with him about everything. I will continue to try to do this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You either let it go and move on...or you let him go.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure am trying to let it go. This week, I've not done such a great job. It's pretty hard sometimes and I falter. During these low points, I experience a lot of self-doubt as to whether I possess the strength to do that and I wonder if maybe I shouldn't just let him go (you know, "run - save yourself because I feel like I'm drowning and I don't want to take you down with me"). He won't go. So I'll continue to try to read, learn and apply and hope.

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I sure am trying to let it go. This week, I've not done such a great job. It's pretty hard sometimes and I falter. During these low points, I experience a lot of self-doubt as to whether I possess the strentgth to do that and I wonder if maybe I shouldn't just let him go (you know, "run - save yourself because I feel like I'm drowning and I don't want to take you down with me"). He won't go. So I'll continue to try to read, learn and apply and hope. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">frozen,

What is "it" that you have trouble letting go of?

That he did it to you? (ego)
Or that you fear that he will do it again?(untrusting)

You are either going to let your ego ruin your life and your marriage...

Or you are letting your inability to trust him ruin your life and your marriage.

Is he giving you reason to NOT trust him?

I hope I am not antagonizing...I am just throwing some questions out there.

AND....that analogy of pepper's is pretty good...and accurate ya know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

committed

Committed,

Yes, I am having trouble letting go of ALL the things you stated, but most of all I am having trouble letting go of the pain. It is so enormous at times that it is stifling - most of the time.

No, I don't want any of those things to ruin my marriage.

At the moment, he is not giving me reason to not trust him, but there have been reasons since D-Day - mostly due to continued lying about the A.

Sure, I get the analogy. A black eye might have been a lot easier to heal.

<small>[ March 13, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

Interesting. I sit in the wings and watch and then I decide I have had enough of the watching and I will get in here. Probably too late, but here we go.

Frozen has "stalked" OW for one reason. To understand how this could happen. People operate on methods, typically. Such interesting terms like modus operandi have been coined for just such an occasion. I still have not satisfied her desire for knowledge of how and why. So, in the interim, she has taken it upon herself to find out some answers. I am not trying to hide anything anymore but life does come with a large number of interruptions. Work, teenagers, social commitments, etc. She and I have devised plans to deal with this. Thus far, they have not failed, so that must be something.

Honesty. Such a key factor in a relationship. She does need to accept full responsibility for her happiness. However, with the facts I have given her, she is inclined to stay with me and work this out. Therefore, I find it completely justified for her to make expectations of me in reference to her happiness. Like boundaries. If I am honest and say I want to work everything out, and she says ok, then she has the right to observe me, course correct and any other method she feels she needs to apply to the situation to ensure the safety of herself and her children. She is not being destructive. She is being hurt. Everyone on here says recovery is measured in years. So, why the rush. All told, the strides she and I have made have been staggering in my opinion. Within a 4 month timeframe, she and I have gotten immediately into recovery and have a number of things learned about each other to show for it. Things we needed to learn anyway, and yet this knowledge of each other comes in the wake of my A. Actually, I think some of this is great because I know her better than I ever did, and I love her more for it. Also, I have earned some maturity and patience in the process.. things I was lacking. I am a better person today for just 4 months of time. Some people go a lifetime without ever trying to be better. But I am not them and they are not me. So I will not judge.

In every post I have ever read from Frozen(granted, my wife so I might be biased) I have yet to see a woman who only wants your sympathy. She wants your understanding and borne from that, your help in guiding her to the better than ever marriage. She has stated as much several times. If people infer she wants pity, then I think something is being read into posts made by an emotional woman. She is hurt. She is afraid I will do this again. She wants to trust me again, but you can't just make the leap overnight. I told her that I will not do this again. She made a decision to risk it. I have made decisions to risk things and still been a little apprehensive about it even while it was going well. I think something as colossal as your marriage might warrant a little extra look over, lets say, a bet placed at a casino. Maybe I am rambling and not making a point.

Here is the reason for my post. To protect my wife. I won't sit here and watch her have to explain herself without helping. She and I are a team. Yes... even against you people trying to help us if need be. So, she is trying to make this work. Forgiveness really doesn't have a timeline, I think. I believe she will get there.... my risk. But I don't think I can "expect" it from her. She can expect that I will uphold NC. That is a defined boundary. But her forgiving me? I can't make that a boundary. Unless someone can find in the bible for me where I can force her to forgive me and/or place a timeline on it... then I will feel I am right. My wager is that she will forgive me. She has lead me to believe it is possible simply by her actions(posting here, talking to me, continuing our marriage... etc.) However, the only guaranties I have are what choices I make and will I be willing to deal with it or not. Fact is... I better be prepared to deal with it. Period.

So, I thank the folks that have posted support and ask questions to either gain more insight into her or to get her to think of new ideas. For others who have misunderstood and/or posted sarcastic remarks(read: lacked compassion) I would emplore you to consider what you say to folks on this board. This is serious stuff to some folks. A matter of life or death, or the desiring of it. And it might be the one thing you say in a moment of minimal or no compassion that catches someone when they have no one else to turn to, or when the moment in life seems to bleak... and then they stop posting. Of course that will not matter to you because when people fall off the face of the earth in the internet, no one really notices. Anonimity protects you from the reality of things like tireman never posts anymore. I for one have not forgotten him and was truly careful in any discussion with him.

But, he doesn't post anymore. So, toss constructive remarks and 2x4s all day. We are looking for them. Grasping for recovery. But please be careful to drop a grenade in someone elses area as you roll by, knowing that it won't effect you one way or the other. That at best seems a little reckless. If you followed our story, the MC that "fired" us would be an outstanding example of this idea.

good day

Frozen,

This cycle, it's unpleasant..feels unending..and when you are in the throes of the undertoe..it seems so consuming.

You aren't alone. The anger, the hurt and confusion..all par for the course. One day things are going well..love letters, small affections, then a week later you wonder how life may be different if you just opted out. I know, most here know.

The sticking point of Peps and a few others that have posted to you..which seems to have an element of misunderstanding [from here anyway]..is the premarital part of Patriots infidelity.

See..he is emphatically not guilty of adultery. He is not a Former Wandering Husband. He is a former unfaithfull boyfriend. So, how is that different?

What is the difference between married and not? Ask yourself that question. Is betrayal diminished? I don't think so..I think betrayal is betrayal..in any guise..at any time.

What is different, is that ..you knew before marrying him [ie investing years of life..having children with him..merging finances..becoming legally bound..etc] that he was unfaithfull. That truly..the majority of your relationship was a lie. The only thing that bound you to him was affection..and yet you chose to marry him anyway.

That is the area that Pep believes houses the anger Froz has for Froz..and I agree.

It is true that had you come here prior to the marriage..the majority of the posters here..perhaps unanimously..would have advised that you NOT marry him.

Dating is the period of time when you sort of..try on the future offered. I can guarantee you that had I known that *this* was the future, I would have handed the boy his hat and thanked him for a nice time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, you had the foreknowledge that what marriage offered to you, was infidelity recovery, and you chose it anyway. Doesn't make the betrayal sting any less..but it does demonstrate a refusal to accept personal responsibility for your decision to have a marriage that failed before it began.

You are trying to build a city out of ashes. You knew it. Anyone who promised you a rose garden lied.

So, you have this other choice as well. You can choose to walk away from it. To make a decision that this is not what you want to spend years of your life doing. You can make that choice, you really can. There are no bindings on you Frozen..not even anyone at all to consider beside yourself..no children to miss him and require that you have him in your life any firther..no financial situations hopelessly entwined. You can sever all ties very neatly if that is your choice.

What isn't fair..is this game of go away come back here. This willfull sabatoge of what you claim to be your own choice. As though..you wish it to fail [by your actions] but don't want to openly claim responsibility.

Yes, there is a process both long and painfull..yes, your FOO issues are being dredged up and filled with all new broken glass then shoved down your throat..yes, it sucks.. yes, it isn't fair.

So, what is stopping Frozen, from being brutally..ruthlessly honest about what she wants from life..assuming that having THIS man free of infidelity recovery is not an option..of course I already know that is what you want..what I would wish..what most here would wish if they had one free for the granting.

Out of the viable selections..what do you WANT.

Honestly, realisticly.

I have asked you this before..and what you claimed to want was THIS marriage..yet you destroy your own efforts.

Surely you realize that there is a difference between telling someone that you are nauseated..and puking on their feet?

The LB fest..the I hate you/I love you/Damn you will wear on any person no matter how well intentioned..there is no man or woman living who can tolerate that indefinitely. Eventually self preservation kicks in and withdrawl occurs. If that is the end you insist on, why not save time and harm and just end it now?

We all must be responsible for the end to the actions we choose. The first step is as important as the last. It determines your direction. So saying "I want my marriage" while doing "I want out"..puts me..the bystander..in a postition of trying to decide..whether what you say is what is true..or what you do. Guess which one I pick?

This applies to stalking [yes, that's what it is] the OW as well.

Noodle


******************************************

Patriot,

I well understand your desire to protect your wife..but as one who has personally walked this road..who has felt and thought as she does..please, I entreat you..allow her to defend her own assertions, or if they are indefensible allow her to face that.

Anything less just prolongs the suffering..she must reach her conclusions. She must chose unhindered..with nothing to soften the blow of reality.

Noodle

Noodle,

You, of course, are right on target about so many things...

But some, you are not - and maybe that's where some of the misunderstandings are coming in to play.

Nothing binding me to this man? We were already married, save for the rings and the legal document. We had already merged households, finances, and lives. We lived together for 2 1/2 years before we got married. While we don't have children together, I have two teenagers who love him and love where they live. He has a six-year-old son, whom I dearly love. Sure, we weren't legally married, but we had made promises to each other and there were certain expectations that come with it. It was by no means just a "dating relationshp" and then I chose to marry him despite everything. It was a lot more complicated than that. His betrayal feels no less to me than adultery as we had already built a life together.

So maybe, had I found this forum before marrying him, you guys would have advised me against it, still...but the result would have been just the same as a divorce. I guess we could have continued living together and working on our relationship without being married, but his impending deployment made the situation even more complicated. If not for the deployment, I probably would have put the wedding on hold. Of course, now the deployment issue is moot, but we had no way of forseeing that. That rarely happens. I'm not angry with myself for marrying him. I accept full responsibility for that decision.

I just had a discussion with Patriot because I wanted to honestly assess the situation and take a hard look and see if you guys are right - if my actions are sabotaging our marriage and if I, in fact, am playing a game of "go away, come back here". I think, again, I have been misunderstood. I am in this marriage because I want to be and because I choose to be. Recovery is challenging, to say the least, and it is a rollercoaster. Some days I'm up, and some days I'm pretty down.

My venting is simply sharing my emotions in hopes that others who are in the same boat with the same paddle can understand or relate. That is, specifically, the support I was seeking at that time. I just wanted to feel understood. I'm not playing any games, I still know what I want...I'm just like anyone else here in that I'm fighting a battle (sometimes uphill) and I'm seeking support, answers, and understanding. I'm not seeking to destroy my own efforts. I'm seeking to learn and grow because I know there is much room for improvement and because I do want to recover WITH HIM.

Frozen