Hi, TM.

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As to the ........
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So, let me give you a hard time for a minute. I'm not trying to be mean.

Here is how I understand your plan. You are going to put your life on hold until the end of June when your wife promised she would break it off with other man, and come to live with you. Does that sum it up?

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I am working through the book "Boundaries" - and starting to try implementing new boundaries with my mother...I have always had a very hard time saying "no" to her...a great cause of strife between my wife and I occurred over this very fact.
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I am glad that you are learning about boundaries, but you are practicing on the wrong person. It seems to me that your wife is upset about your mother controlling you, when she wanted that position to be exclusively hers. Your wife is the person you need to learn to say "no" to, and in very short order.

TM, please consider moving on with your life. If your wife comes to her senses and decides to catch up, then you can cross that bridge if and when it comes up.

If your wife senses you slipping away, I believe she will come running, running to try and get you back under control. Once that is done, she will return to whatever she wants to do. Until you break out of that behavior loop, your relationship with her can never improve. It will continue on until she gets tired of using you, or you blow a gasket.

She has no respect for you, TM. None.

For your sake, take a stable job, in one place, rent an apartment, and settle in - alone.

One last thing; your mother's church issues are not an excuse for you to step away from your faith. Your faith is between you and God. Please make sure that you are not using that for an excuse.

Settle down, prioritize your life, and begin to live again. Losing one monkey doesn't stop the show.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble-

Again, I really do appreciate your posts, even if they aren't what I want to hear.

As to my wife moving immediately back in with me....I am not so sure that is how it will happen....I am thinking I would not want her to move in with me immediately...

Why do you say she is/has been controlling me? I do allow her to make many of the decisions in our lives, but I do put my foot down on issues that I feel strongly about. I chose my battles as it were...

I am not sure you have the full picture of our sitch...have you gone back and read my story? There are some extenuating circumstances that caused my wife a great amount of pain...and no, it does not justify her actions in any way...

If I am going to move on with my life as if I were unattached, I would not take a job, I would return to Austin to complete my bachelor's, and then on to Med School afterwards. I have always dreamed of being a surgeon, but gave that particular dream up, so that my wife could persue her dream of becoming a Podiatrist. And, if the truth be known, I am a good deal smarter than she, so I really should have been the one to be a physician.

Gimble, your post saddens me. I have been in the mindset that I would have the chance to at least start the process of MC, and then, based on the progress, or lack thereof, make a rational, well thought out decision to reconcile or not. Now it seems you think I should just go ahead and start my life over, and file on her.

I don't know what to say, think, or do right now....

I haven't slept in over 40 hours, so I guess it is time for a little shut-eye.

If anyone else wants to chime in here, feel free....even if it is to say Gimble is right, and I should just move on....


TM

I'll bite.
Gimble is right.
I have said similar things to you when you were still in L.A. but you didn't want to hear them then either.

It sounds like a great idea to pursue your medical education.

I believe you can do better than remain hitched to your current wife...given all your history and the fact that you have no children. You do not seem capable of being a 'real' man as long as you are tied to her. I still believe that she continues to lie to you to suit her own selfish desires. She wants you in her back pocket. She is stringing you along for her own purposes. She is a cake eater. I still believe she is in her A...roommates! Yeah right.

Hi, TM.

I surely don't want to hurt your feelings or make you sad. The truth is, the things I said to you have mostly been said to you by people here, before. Trix also points this out in her post.

I have kept up with your situation from the start. I know how you feel about your wife. It is very obvious.

It is just as obvious that she has no respect for you. It appears to me that she has lost her respect because of your inability to set firm boundaries with her.

If you want to go to med school, then go. I have a friend that started med school when he was 35. Go get settled, take two months to get your head in order, and start learning again. Use your brain for something constructive.

Please get some sleep. Lots of it. If you have an interest in medicine, then you already have an idea of what you are doing to yourself with your current lifestyle.

I want you to know, that I think you are a good guy, and I bet most folks here do as well.

I can't tell you to divorce your wife, but haven't you put your life on hold for her long enough? I didn't say that you need to dump her. I said, that YOU need to move on with YOUR LIFE. If she catches up, then you deal with that. If she doesn't, then you deal with that. Let the problem return to its originator.

If she were to come back to you, it would require extraordinary measures for her to offer up an accounting of her actions. How do you deal with being used? I have a fair understand of most forms of adultery, but I know users. I am not saying that her soul is lost or she can't change, but I am saying that her change will have to be extraordinary to have any validity. So, if she returns, how are you going to deal with recovery? What is your plan for recovery? Are you going to wait longer while she settles into a practice? How long do you wait for it to get better so that you can start living again?

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If I am going to move on with my life as if I were unattached, I would not take a job, I would return to Austin to complete my bachelor's, and then on to Med School afterwards. I have always dreamed of being a surgeon, but gave that particular dream up, so that my wife could persue her dream of becoming a Podiatrist. And, if the truth be known, I am a good deal smarter than she, so I really should have been the one to be a physician.
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Now THAT is a plan.

I don't want to make you feel hopeless, TM. What I do want you to do is learn how to fish.

Have you ever heard the old adage, "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

You have to learn to be a stand alone entity again, TM. That is attractive to most women, even your wife.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble & Trix -

Thank you both for the posts....

Trix - I know I shouldn't, but I believe the A is more or less dead. Not because my strong faith in my W, but because of the type of weak man that the OM is. He has few redeeming qualities, if any. My WW demands much more than he will be ever able to deliver.

Gimble -

They say we men marry someone just like our mother, and women like their father. I guess it is so. I have dated some passive women eons ago back in high school, and found them unappealing. I have always wanted a motivated, take-charge kind of gal. Now it looks like I have chosen badly. Maybe my mother and wife can make an agreement - my wife gets to control me during the week, and my mom on the weekends... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Although I think you are on track on most of my sitch, I think you have missed one part of the equation, Gimble. My wife used to love me more than life itself...she almost worshipped the ground I walked upon. I really don't think someone who is as usury, and hence evil, as you described above would be capable of such depths of loving.

Is she selfish? You bet. But I knew that going into the marriage. And, I love her for her strengths as well as her weaknesses. We both knew that the past 6 or 7 years were going to have to be all about her. I really think she fell prey to the "God complex" - especially considering the geographical location of the DPM's that she worked under - Beverly Hills.

I do plan on returning to school. I see no good reason, though, to move there until just before the fall semester starts. I have a number of irons in the fire in Houston with my company, and I am able to live for virtually nothing, so staying in Houston seems to make the best fiduciary choice. I can suffer for a few more months...God knows, I have done it for long enough...

My mother has offered to finance my studies....but I am very reticent to accept her invitation. Once bitten, twice shy, you know. It seems everything she offers comes with strings attached. I would feel much better standing completely independently.


You asked what my plans were for recovery. Honestly, I have not even considered developling a plan yet. I cannot see past the point in which she leaves the OM, and agrees to MC with me. I guess I will need to start formulating a plan for recovery, so it will be ready if I ever need it.


One thing I think most who have read my story here just can't understand. I met my wife when I was a junior, aka 11th grade, aka I was 17 years old. I never developed true independence, true sense of self. Most people get to go through the process, and know who they are long before they chose a mate. I did not have that experience, so I tend to define myself as a part of my WW, and she a part of me.

Gimble, there is also one issue that I haven't discussed widely here that played a part in our marital collapse...I will discuss it via email with you if you would like.

geckogoon@yahoo.com

Thanks again for your help....

TM

TM,

Reading your last post, I will have to chime in and say that I know exactly what you are talking about, regarding being with your WW from an early age. I too met my W back in the 11th grade. Married right after HS.
While I know the exact feelings you are talking about, being a part of each other in that way. I don't really know what I can say about it, except that I do think it makes things just that much harder. Harder to deal with, harder to let go.

But, at least you now know you have someone else here who can identify with that aspect...

Hi, TM.

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Gimble, there is also one issue that I haven't discussed widely here that played a part in our marital collapse...I will discuss it via email with you if you would like.
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You have mail.

Gimble

TM,

I think you should start to plan your future. If college and then Med school is where you want to go, then it is time to get going. If you don't want to move to Austin yet, but your Mom is driving you a little bats, then get a place of your own. I know you are saving money, but I also realize it won't help you if you are living in an environment that is hurting you.

As for your W, there seems to be no evidence that the A is over or will be over. I would NOT count on her coming back and even if she does there is going to be some major damage to heal and recover from. You will do better recovering from it, IF you are on to your life's goals and if school is it, then get with it NOW.

I know they have summer courses at UT, and it will hasten your graduation date. If you decide to not go back to school, then get yourself a place to stay. Sign a six month lease if necessary, and start your life.

I too would like to chime in with Gimble and say, stay away from the late nights, the "X factor", and other things as it inhibits your ability to make good decisions or handle the stress you are under.

Take care of yourself TM. I realize at your age there is a tendency for us guys to be a little self-destructive, but right now you have all of the destruction in your life you need, so don't add to it.

Must go, get some sleep, get a plan and get with the plan.

God Bless,

JL

TTSi -

Thanks for the post...you know how hard it is. The interesting part back then was that I was a Jr. in high school, and she was a Sr. in college when we met....boy was I the envy of my friends! She could buy beer, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gimble -

I responded to your mail...


JL-

I am most likely going to stay in Houston for a while, just try to be scarce when my mother is home in the evenings. Like right now, instead of checking email/posting from home, I am at Kinko's....then I am going to work out.

I would like to be able to say that I will refrain from partying from now on, but that would be a lie. I know I will still go out and drink, dance, etc. I am also aware that it solves nothing, and may complicate my life further. I am just not ready to give it up yet. I work very hard when I am working, and therefore I play very hard when it is time to play. I am thankfully young enough (or stupid enough?) that I feel I can handle it.

I am fairly certain that I am moving to Austin within the next three months regardless....so I am going to save up right now, and plan for that.



I really wanted to call my WW the other night....but I kept myself from it. I instead have found someone else to chat with. I have developed a really close friendship with a female that I knew back in LA....we were pretty good friends when I left, but have become closer since. We talk almost every day. I know that all kinds of warnings are going to come my way from many here, and I understand how vunerable I am right now. I also know I am married, and intend to act as such a man. I am still prepared to reconcile with my wife if that option is available to me....and if that happens, I would have to end my friendship with this woman, it would then become inappropriate.

Things are starting to pick up locally with work, so I am looking forward to being productive and keeping my mind busy with things other than my WW and my dying marriage.

TM

TM,

I think you missed my point. I didn't say don't party. I am saying do it in moderation, not back to back nights, stay away from the drugs and cut back on the booze. Dance your fool head off, just don't soak it in the extraneous stuff.

As for the woman you are talking to, let me ask you something where does she fit in this picture? I don't see her fitting into your marriage do you? I don't see her fitting in during your schooling and certainly medical school. In short, while she may be facinating right now, she can do you little good and a great deal of harm. Further, she doesn't fit in your life at all. So why go through all of the trauma of developing a deep and close friendship only to have to end it.

You are doing her no favors and sure not yourself. I won't even mention what this can do to your marriage, YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT FIRST HAND.

TM, do a little risk/reward analysis on this and think you will find this is a non-starter. Put the fire out, and move on.

I'm telling you, your time to howl is coming no matter what your W does, make darned sure ALL of your options are open at the right time, another woman in your life will mess up those options and your decisions. You know what they say about "good luck" it is the confluence of preparation and opportunity. Prepare yourself to take advantage of any opportunity TM.

God Bless,

JL

Hi, TM.

I have your email and I will get back with you later tonight.

Gimble

JL-

I understand your point about my friend, but I left a little out. She most likely won't ever "fit" into my life at all. The way we met was responding to a Craigslist ad looking for a group of people in the LA area who were young and either seperated or divorced. We would go out - as a group - and have drinks and share/comiserate. So....she is married, and her H is having an affair on her.

She refuses to read any of the books or follow the Harvey method...she has filled her void right now with new men...I am just the confidante that gets to hear the details. Sorta like a big brother. We are so similar in personality that we both know we could never have a future. So I am not sure there is a problem with me being close friends with her. Am I being naive? I mean, I hear details of her escapades, and I feel no jealousy...


---

From all the advice coming my way from people here whom I see as having so much more wisdom and experience than I do, I am starting to think my M is over. That seems to be the prevailing sentiment. I know I don't have to rush to court, and I will have to have some interaction with my WW in June, to arrange a complete division of our things, but I am thinking that we may end up being a MB failure story. I know- not all marriages are worth saving.

It's funny, I used to define happiness by the lack of negative things happening in my life. I guess I have compromised and been controlled by others for so long that I have long given up on my dreams. And with the loss of dreams comes the loss of enthusiasm. My spark had faded.

I am trying to give myself something to look forward to...a veritable "light at the end of the tunnel"....and becoming a surgeon is it. I had always reasoned away my not persuing this long time dream..."I would be a absentee father" and "You would never see me - what kind of marriage is that?" I guess I will have to persue this dream for now, and if another marriage is in my future down the road, then I will figure out a way to make my time work.

There are a number of things that I would do now if I knew I was going to give up on my M. Property sold, equipment repaired to be sold, etc. Do ya'll think I should start to work on these things? The only reason I may not want to is because it will get back to my WW and she will know I am moving in the D direction. I almost see this as a manipulation - one of the resons I have purposely just let things lie.

TM

TM,

I don't think anyone is recommending divorce. But, unless there is something else going on, there are no signs that your W is serious about being married to you. She is out here, doing her thing and the marriage is NOT a concern right now. That may change, but TM you are a fool if you don't follow your dreams NOW.

It may not work out that you will become a surgeon. It may not work out that you become a physician, but it should fail on its own weight of circumstances NOT because you did NOT give it a shot. You will regret not going for this NO matter what the status of your marriage.

So start preparing to sell stuff, get rid of stuff, so that you can go to school. You have put your W through school, the least you should do is put yourself through it.

TM, this is NOT marriage advice, this is life advice. Seek your future. Only you can do it. Don't wait for permission from your W, your friends, your mother, your family. If this is your dream and you have the means to seek it, then darn it man: GO FOR IT. You will never regret trying and failing. You will regret NOT TRYING.

That is sort of what we are saying about your marriage. It may make it, it may fail, but YOU have tried your best. That is why you are NOT an MB failure. MB is not about success or failure, it is about giving the marriage the best chance to survive and be a marriage you both thrive in. You have done that, you are doing that. Son, you have to get your head screwed on straight. You have been looking through the wrong end of the telescope here.

Things are supposed to be closer to you not further away when you look through those darned things. Especially, when you look into the future. GO FOR IT TM. You will not regret it. Heck, if the marriage ends I know for a fact, that Austin has some very very nice women in it. I know I married one when I was 31 years old.

Your future is bright, seek it. Ok, I'll put the 2x4 down now, but don't make me pick it up again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

JL-



There is no way for you to know me well enough from just my posts here....but if I decide to do it, and I set my mind to it, then I will become a surgeon. I rarely, if ever, fail. I will push myself until I either succeed, or break in the process.

A nice little gift from my very dysfunctional upbringing. I am a perfectionist, and am hardest on myself. But I get things done when I decide to do them.



TM

Well, to second JL, please do not think of yourself as an "MB failure." We are simply people who didn't get what we "wanted", only to find out what we "wanted" may not be big enough for a bigger plan.

Here is a quote from -- of all unlikely sources -- Jane Fonda: “The failures are what deliver us to ourselves. You don't get Real by playing it safe.”

And when you gamble big and don't get what you want...well, I know about the "loss of spark." You have to trust it will come back, with a different dream, and in a different direction. What you've learned maybe is something about big gambles -- many people are afraid to make them, and even more afraid of losing. To lose big and know you can survive is one of life's bigger lessons.

This isn't to say anything or predict anything about WW and what she's going to do. At this point, it's about you moving towards the future. Whatever she does -- you do have a future.

Travellin-

I saw a thread a while back where you were asking if anyone had talked to me, etc. Just wanted to let you know I am still among the living. Thanks for caring <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My FWH and I are back together, and it's a daily fight to keep it that way.

So, just wanted to let you know that I'm still fighting the good fight, and that I'm praying for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

TM,

You said
So take that gift and use it. Time to focus on you, rather than W right now.

God Bless,

JL

A.M.Martin -

Great quote from Jane...at least she had something good to say for once. As to gambling & winning...well, it really wasn't mine to win or lose....I gambled on my WW, and she will be the one to lose.


Caren -

I am very happy to hear from you. It is also great to hear you are in the begining stages of recovery. Keep us posted.


JL-

I do plan on using it. My plan is just a little more paced out. I am in no rush to move and start summer school. Unfortunately, I have been out of school so long, that I am a little rusty I am sure. So to start back into UT during the summer session may be a bit too intense. I plan on waiting until fall. Once I get back from Singapore next week, I intend on starting the application process for the fall semester.

I am both sad and excited about what the future may hold.


----


I am still wavering on whether to start to seperate my life from my WW's in all ways. You see, she and I, my MIL and (now deceased) FIL, and her brother and SIL, all bought a 50 acre parcel of land out in the countryside that we were going to develop...the first part of which would have been a restaurant. So amongst other things, we have a bulldozer, backhoe, grills, a vent hood, ovens, deep-fryers, chairs, tables, etc, etc, etc, stored on the property. Because I was a central part of the impetus behind the project, I know if I leave, the development will never come to fruition. So that I might get my money back out of it, we would have to sell most, if not all of the property we have been acquiring over the previous 4 years. We would also have to have a re-appraisal of the land so that the fair market value could be determined, and I could be bought out.

I am just not sure how much of this I should start into right away, as it might be seen as a pressure tactic by my WW. I do not want to manipulate her in any way. I want her to make her decisions on her schedule, so I will know what is real.

TM

TM,

No hurry to sell. AS John Madden has said on his show. "you should never roll out the hose until you know where the fire is." I don't think you know that part yet.

As for the summer school, I went back to graduate school after 5 years on active duty, and it takes a bit of a adjustment to get back into the school role. That is why taking a course during the summer might help you get your feet on the ground so that you can roll when the fall starts.

It is after all your call, but think about it. Doesn't even have to be at UT. It could be there, so it doesn't interfer much with your life, but it gets you back into the habits.

TM, don't worry about one thing with regard to your marriage. It has been my observation that all major decisions in my life have ultimately been made for me. I don't mean I didn't have a choice in things, it was that once most if not all of the data was in, the direction to go was obvious even if it was painful. I believe you will find this will be the case for you. So don't worry about it so much OK?

You'll do fine. You have the "horsepower" to handle this mess.

God Bless,

JL

Hi, TM.

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I am just not sure how much of this I should start into right away, as it might be seen as a pressure tactic by my WW. I do not want to manipulate her in any way. I want her to make her decisions on her schedule, so I will know what is real.
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What difference does it make what she sees? If YOU decide you want to pull out of the investment, then YOU do it. That is not manipulation. That is living YOUR life.

You work on YOUR schedule. she can catch up if she decides to. Stop waiting on her, TM. Even if you can't stand the thought of life without her, and are desperate to win her back, waiting on her is still the wrong thing to do.

It is a different kind of strength, TM.

All the best,
Gimble