TM

If I lived near you I could give you a good biff over the head like a big sister should and tell you to get yourself to the lawyer - information is empowering TM ... asap....LOL

I dont want you to divorce, but you may NEED to or be left no option. You should file only as a least resort or if there is a legal reason to do so - and most importantly ..that you want to..even if not ... having the right info cannot hurt ..in any event you can start separating everything & then do a great plan B ...nothing else has worked and the longer it goes on the more it is likely that your M will not recover.

If you ww is cool enough to tell you that if you file in TX SHE WILL FIGHT FOR VENUE, then do you REALLY think she is seriously considering coming to Tx for you????

HAve a good long think TM on this and yes be a bit selfish about it. MM, Gimble & JL have given great advice they have been through it all.... and your ww seems to be following the standard script for WW in a 'live in' PA.

Big sisterly hug [[[[[TM]]]]]

Hi, TM.

Quote:
======================================
Gimble - I have a bit of a quandry that I find myself in. She had filed on me in Feb. in CA. She won't know if she is definitely moving back to TX until about July 10th....when she gets her board exam scores back. If she doesn't pass the part 3 exam, she will stay in LA, and do another year of residency, since she will not be able to practice. She told me that if I file on her in TX, she will serve me the CA papers, and we will then have to contest the venue. So the one month difference isn't worth the extra stress and $ involved.
======================================

TM, MortarMan and JustLearning are giving you some great advice. So, let me do my thing and get it down to basics.

Crap or get off the pot.

Either do a real Plan B and attempt to rescue your wife, or file for divorce Monday morning in YOUR venue. Stop waffling. You are shortening your own life and dragging out your misery, meanwhile, your wife is still using you.

I don't want to beat you up, or be mean to you. Fact is, you are already pretty much - jello. If you were my friend and neighbor and a guy was picking on you, or using you like your wife is, I would beat him up, then I would teach you how to fight.

You simply must learn how to protect yourself. Learn how to fight so that you can rescue someone important to you. MM and JL are both telling you how to protect yourself, and what to do to attempt a rescue.

What in the world, could you possibly be waiting on?

All you have to do is ask for help with a plan. I know three guys right here, right now, that will jump in and help you until the battle is done.

God bless,
Gimble

Kind of off topic, but it's funny that you mentioned
Phantom of the Opera. I can no longer watch that as well.

The song, "All I ask of you" was played at our wedding instead of the traditional bride's walk. Whatever that song is called.

I was a little skeptical about using it at the time, but in the end it worked out beautifully. The music itself was on CD, but the words were sung by my BIL, who has a really good voice for that type of music.

I guess in the end, it's a bad thing, as I can no longer enjoy that play/movie again.

JL - you said
-------------
So you are saying if she fails the exam, she is NOT coming back and YOU still cannot file without her contesting the venue, right?......But, I thought she told you she recinded the divorce.....
--------------

If she fails the exam, and does not return to TX, I guess I will ask her to serve me the CA papers. I may be giving in too much here, but I really don't care anymore. I am starting to feel like I just want this done with.

And no, I never said she rescinded the divorce. She filed because of pressure from the OM, but never served me. I have dropped many a hint to her, suggesting that cancelling the papers would be evidence of her desire to save our M, but she has yet to do so. All the more reason to head to an attorney soon....

AW-

Thanks for the hug! Lord knows I need it right now. I can only guess why her hackles get raised so much when I suggest that the D papers get filed in TX. I almost think it is because she wants to still be in control. Maybe she wants to be the one to choose...I dunno. Keep in mind, "fight for venue" is my term, not hers. She has it in her head that no lawyers should be involved, that we can do this by ourselves, because of some book she read. She told me even if I hired a lawyer that she would do her side herself. More power to her.

There is more to the division of assets than I have shared thus far. You see, she bought her house from her parents - it was a previous rental property of theirs - and they gifted $50,0000 worth of equity to her in the process. This occurred before we were married, but about a year after we started living together. I moved out from my mother and in with her during my senior year in high school. Since my name is not on the title, and since our marriage was 8.5 years (short of the 10 year TX definition of "a marriage of length"), I will not be entitled to a full 50% of the equity of the house. I have asked her to come up with a dollar figure for the amount she is willing to offer me if we were to settle outside of court. If this figure is large enough, which I am sure it won't be, then I will settle, and move on.

There is more to our assets than this, but I will not go into further detail here. But this is the crux of the situation. She told me she is very busy over the next few weeks, so she will be unable to give me a figure until things slow down a bit. My guess is that I will never see a figure.

Go figure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And yes, I am starting to think more selfishly. It is a very unnatural emotion for me, but I am learning. It is sad to have to learn this, though.


Gimble -

Will you beat the OM up for me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, couldn't resist. The question is, is my wife important enough for me to rescue anymore. She has so many strikes against her, the A notwithstanding. I was so willing to do so much for her in times past, but now I feel like I deserve better. I am starting to see this not as a crisis, but an opportunity. I can walk away from this person with no guilt, no shame, no responsibility. I really think if she waits until she moves back to TX (assuming she passes all of her boards) that I will be walking the other way. There is a limit to the abuse a person can take. She has to chose me.

You want me to ask for a plan? You got it. I need help with a plan. I have some ideas of my own, but I will hold them until I hear what those here have in mind. Since there is always an outside chance my WW might be reading here, anyone with help on a plan can email me directly at [email]geckogoon@yahoo.com.[/email]

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.


TTSi-

Quite a powerful show, eh? I was so moved when I saw it live on Broadway, and have always gotten chills when I hear some of the songs. I can recite almost every word to the entire soundtrack....dubious distinction, huh? It is sad that you can no longer enjoy such an amazing piece of art.

----------------


So here I sit, on a Saturday night, 3:20 am, at home, by myself.....

I worked out this evening from 10pm-12am, at the 24hr fitness...my new daily stress reliever. I am getting in pretty good shape. I run about 2 miles at a good clip - eight or nine minute miles, then hit the weights. When the last reps are so painful, I just repeat to myself in my head, "Never again!" over and over to help me through the pain that my muscles are screaming at me. I wish I had a different motivator, but I am turning a negative into a positive...

I am still incredibly sad over the state of affairs, but am starting to picture myself in the future....single, on my way to an MD degree, and maybe, just maybe, happy again.

Boy, I hope this gets easier sometime soon.

On another note, I was supposed to go to LA this weekend to party and hang with some friends I met while living there, but my the plans fell through with two of the people....so I cancelled. Maybe it was for the best - one of the girls that I was going to see has been showing quite an interest in me as of late. Might have saved myself from more complications than I need right now. This is not to say I won't go there in the future, though.

Each day I feel more and more certain that I will be D'd in the coming months. Is this a typical phase of the rollercoaster? Or am I starting to lose all of the love out of my love bank for my WW. Is this because I keep screwing up my plan B?

Thanks to all that continue to help despite my obvious hard headedness. I am a slow learner sometime.


TM

TM,

Since she has NOT dropped the divorce papers on you. I would find out from a lawyer what the laws are here in CA, perhaps more generous that TX and in TX. I would prepare to defend yourself and make a quick end to this.

Doesn't sound much like marrige builders does it? Well, I have seen nothing in your posts that suggests that you are of much value to her. I have seen nothing that indicates she has any empathy for what she has done to the marriage. I have seen nothing that indicates that you have been much but a convenence (sp) to her for many years. You have been married 8.5 years and she has been in school how many years of that? You have moved for her schooling as well right?

You are very likely right that your love bank is getting low. You are also right that if you had planned B'd you would have more in the bank right now, but the withdrawals would have still continued but at a lower pace.

If I were to draw up a plan for you it would be to have you sit down and lay out what you want in the future, the steps you will have to take to get there, and start making a time table for the various steps. I would tell you to focus on that time table. I would tell you to plan on divorcing your W unless SHE does something to indicate that she would be willing to try and rebuild this marriage. You will KNOW when you are ready for divorce, only you can say when. But, from the sounds of it, it will be soon.

AS you do this, talk to us we will surely offer opinions. Ultimately this has to be your plan for your future. It seems your W doesn't really want to be part of it, unless it suits her purposes. Perhaps that will change.

Go see a lawyer and find out what your options are in TX and CA. Be prepared.

God Bless,

JL

Edited....somehow JL responded before I bumped it up....


JL-

I met with a CA attorney before I moved back. I also had a phone consultation with a TX attorney from CA. It seems the laws are fairly simmilar in the two states - no fault, etc...

I am going to meet with a few different lawyers here in town very soon to figure out what my options are. I will post the outcome of these meetings afterward.

And to answer your question - almost our entire married life my wife has been in school. I supported her throughout, and get little or no credit for doing so. I moved ourselves and my company twice - first to the east coast, then to CA. Just for her schooling/residency. Anytime I point out how all of our resources have been to further her future, her retort is always, "Well, I had to take out loans to pay for tuition and part of my living expenses..." As if she would have had the same exact living conditions, opportunities, and vacations if she were go the road completely solo....

This makes me so angry....and makes me feel completely unappreciated.

TM

TM,

Unappreciated...isn't that interesting. Sort of like disrespected isn't it. We could chaulk up her comments to the "fog" she is in, but it seems to me this woman is a user. She is using OM right now, and I think she will continue to use him IF it suits her. She has used you as well for many years. She will very likely use you again IF it suits her, and she has "time to get around to it."

TM, I have been here a long time. I am a lot older than you and your W. I am a strong very strong proponent in marriages and staying with them through tough times. But, in your case, with no children, and the history, and potential future, I think you need to be talking to your lawyers long and hard. I really hate to say this, but I also will not blow smoke up someone's *** on this site either. To much pain not to be honest here.

This baby is in her court, and she would need to step up and be the giver big time for this marriage to survive if it were me. She has been the taker for the whole time. I would even point that out to your MIL.

Just my thoughts TM, and I really hope I am wrong, but the data seems pretty clear. Oh, and those loans she has, make sure she keeps them out of the divorce, OR you seek a portion of her salary for the rest of your life because you bought her degrees for her. Women can and do do this to men, and if it is fair for them, it is fair for you. You will need the help in school and med school if you decide to go that way.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks, JL...

The loans are in her name, and her name only....and they will stay that way.

My MIL will always defend her little girl. The two of them owned a business together, and worked closely with each other for years. She will always think that my WW is in the right. I learned this the other day during a conversation with my MIL. I am planning on going dark on her, and my BIL & his wife, as well. All they will do is relay information back to my WW...

Thanks again for your time and advice...

TM

TM,

I just wish I could offer you real advice on how to actually solve this problem. But, I have confidence that you will figure out how to do that.

God Bless,

JL

Hi, TM.

Like JL, I too am a good bit older, but unlike JL, I am not over the hill yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As I see it, here is the real dilemma, but with an interesting resolution.

When you get serious about moving on, she is going to come running. The problem is, that won't happen unless you are really set on moving on. You can't pretend. Users don't buy pretend. We can spot it a thousand miles away.

The resolution is simple. You move on. Get your life together and decide what you are going to do. The sooner you start, the better the result for you and all concerned.

If after you are well on your way, you should hear a voice off in the distance, yelling and pleading for you to wait, don't do it. Let her catch up, or leave her behind, but don't you wait. If she does catch up, then and only then, do you decide if you want the drama and her control back in your life.

Until you really go the distance, your choices will always be second guessed by you, and by her.

If by some chance you do move on and never hear the yelling off in the distance, then you still win, hands down, your life will be better for it.

I mean this in all sincerity, not as a slam, it is time for you to grow up, and face the world for the first time - on your own. No crutches, no props, just you.

God bless,
Gimble

Hi TM

Gimble & JL have given you really really sage advice [I wouldn't dare say sage advice is age related heh heh] but you have received great advice.

Its so hard for you facing and accepting whats been going with your ww, I think everyone knows that TM. Sadly I do think it is more than an affair that is involved. Its her whole current attitude on life and using people.
From your posts it would appear its been around for a while, a long while.
And its not that she cannot change, we do that all the time throughtout our lives, I dont think she even wants to try.

I said to you before that once YOU start to move on and I agree no pretend move on, then she will come running wanting to give you a million excuses/reasons not to Dv just wait jast wait ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, TM you will be waiting until you collect a wooden overcoat.

Put the onus back on her, IF she REALLY wants you she will be willing to fight for you and .....if that happens and you make it easy you'll be back here 12 months after that.

You've got to get tough and create a hide like a rhino, or she'll just use you up.

But you KNOW all this don't you? Ya big mug! [[[[[TM]]]]]]

TM you just dont realise how many women are out there that would crawl over broken glass to have a kind hearted loyal man like you ... you deserve so much more and should not settle for what you are getting

Hey TravellinMan...

I understand you are in Houston. If you would like the name of the attorney I used who is absolutely GREAT you can e-mail me at [email]legalbeagle86@hotmail.com.[/email] He specializes in Family Law (in TX, you can only say you specialize in something if you have passed certain requirements)and is located on Hwy 6 between 290 and I-10.

Regards,

Brit's Brat/BS-44
XH-45
DS-3.5
Status: Divorced one year ago today. Moving forward....

JL, Gimble, and AW -

I guess not all marriages are worth saving. I am starting to feel negative feelings toward my WW...not just longing and pining for her like in the past, but a real sense of disrespect, to borrow a word.

I have been reading Bob Pure's thread, and think about all of the effort, struggles, and time he has to put in with his Squid, and cannot picture myself trying that hard for my WW. She no longer seems worth all of that effort. I feel so used by her. Used and discarded.

I have come to a decision on the date I will file. I will not reveal the specifics in the event my WW does read here, but suffice it to say that it is not very far in the future. I feel more empowered now that I have a plan, but also much more saddened since my decision. I guess its because I know I have to stand by my decisions, or else I will lose the final shreds of self-respect...I can't keep moving my boundaries.

I am sad. Sad, but resolute. I love my WW, but the love is changing. It was romantic, can't-live-without-her love, even need...now it is a pity type of love, seeing what she has allowed herself to become, and knowing her future pain.

She told me right around D-day, "I know I am taking the chance that I will spend the rest of my life alone by doing this...." How prophetic. The question now is, was it worth the risk, dear WW?

Angst/defiance/bitterness/pity is slowly replacing longing/sadness/lonliness/wallowing....

Maybe one day I will make it to happiness/anticipation/joy/love. I can't wait.

8 days NC thus far. Had to talk to MIL, though regarding $ matters, no R talk.


Brit's Brat - YGM.


Another late night - 3:27 am...and I have to get up by 9am. No rest for the wicked...or the $crewed over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


TM

TM,

Not much to add as you are in good hands, but I have been watching.

The thing about Bob & Squid (and other success stories, RH & NOW, chackler, etc) is the WS showed signs of effort that they wanted it to work too.

Not so with us.

"A marriage is like an empty bowl. It will remain empty so long as you take out more than you put in."

If that describes your WW, then you don't want her. What kind of person doesn't attempt to right a wrong?

NCW

NCW - Thanks for keeping an eye on me.

-------------

I have a funny story to share...

I was out carousing around until the wee hours of the morning this morning, and when I went to sleep, I guess I still had the cell phone in my hand. About 10am I awoke to my cell phone ringing....not ringing like there was an incoming call, but as if I had dialed out. I look down and my chin was resting on the keypad.....who did I happen to hit on my speed dial? You guessed it...my WW! Luckily, she didn't answer and I hung up quickly...but it will be in her call log as a missed call.

Does this count as a break in Plan B?

Is this the first time you have ever heard of someone breaking plan B involuntarily?

I need to keep my cell phone further away in the future, I guess.

TM

Hi, TM.

Quote:
===========================
Maybe one day I will make it to happiness/anticipation/joy/love. I can't wait.
===========================

Of course you will, and it will be real, not induced.

How are you holding up?

What have you been doing the past few days?

Gimble

Gimble -

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

Here I am again, 3am, sitting in the dark, wondering which direction I should head in my life.

I am holding up fairly, except had another wild weekend. I know I need to slow it down. I guess this is my "distraction" from reality. My friend in CA, whom I have mentioned before, goes on dates with other guys, as a distraction from her H's A...I go party, but purposely avoid interaction that could lead down the wrong path. I have had a fair number of opportunities, and even a couple of outright offers, but have resisted up to this point....well, except for the ONS I had months ago when I was still back in CA - my WW already knows about that one...

I am not sure I should resist anymore. Why should I be so chaste when my WW is living - and almost definately still sleeping - with her OM? Why shouldn't I use this time to "see what else is out there"?

I had a pretty rough weekend...went to sleep at about 6:30am on Saturday morning...didn't make it to bed until 11:30am on Sunday morning... I met a new friend who I can already tell is not going to be good for me. A rreal party animal. He co-owns an after hours club only open on Saturday nights - open 1-8am...and one of the only places in Houston that plays the type of music I prefer. I had been there before I met him, but now that we are buds, everything is free for me. So I may end up attending most every weekend for the forseeable future. I am just wondering if this is a can of worms I should even open up. Its just I feel so worry free during those times...it is such an escape for me, however temporary.

I am at a crossroads in so many different facets of my life right now...school, living situation, marriage, business opportunities...it is very overwhelming. I have had three seperate offers for partnerships in the last week and a half ...any of which would screw up my plan for schooling - at least for a little while.

I just don't know.


TM

After my own reflection, I believe that the initial feelings of a BS are not "love", but more an extreme desperation, a passionate desire to fix a perceived problem. As the "romantic passion" fuels the thoughts and actions of the WS, so does the "desperation" fuel the thoughts and actions of the WS. Both sides are guilty of "fog" and irrational thoughts, just motivated by different ends. Both groups are guilty of ignoring reality and logical reasoning during these phases, as witnessed by every BS who rationalizes their WS as a "victim" and not as a true perpetrator, who takes the words of their WS as "truth" and who ignores the experiences and advice provided by those who are more knowledgeable in such issues.

As the anxiety of this desperation subsides, the BS begins to think more clearly and critically analyzes the situation and its possible outcomes. If the BS is still in the relationship with a WS, who is still within an affair, the BS develops more bitterness and apathy towards the WS, due to the constant bombardment of disrespect from the WS. During this time, I believe that the BS becomes more accepting of the possibility of divorce and actually weighs more towards the idea of a future without the "damaged goods" that is the WS.

TM

If you feel it is time to end your M then ONLY you can decide that.
I do think for you though that you should do this BEFORE you start dating or sleeping with someone simply because YOU may not feel ok with that later on.... but again its not MY choice its entirely yours and what is right for YOU.

Did you get any info from your lawyer on your options??? If so then I suppose you have the info to make a decision thats best for you.

I'd be sorry for you that your M is past reovery BUT you have to know if it is that was not your actions.
Whatever you decide you know you have a lot of friends here hoping for your happiness .... oh and willing and able to give you a few 4x2's when you need it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[[[[[[[T man]]]]]]]

Maintain your integrity until you are D'd.

I think you are right that your new 'bud' may not be good for you. Sounds like the wrong path to me.

But, then again, I am old enough to be your mom...so I read your posts from that perspective.

Be safe. Proceed on the straight and narrow...toward achieving your goals and the desires of your true heart.