Hi, TM.

Quote:
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I am not sure I should resist anymore. Why should I be so chaste when my WW is living - and almost definately still sleeping - with her OM? Why shouldn't I use this time to "see what else is out there"?
===============================

You are not really going to try and pull that crap with me are you?

You already know what is out there.

Haven't you figured it out yet, TM?

You can't fill the hole in your heart with empty things.

You can do all the drugs you want, have all the sex you want, and you will still be empty. Surely you don't still believe that if you shop around long enough, you will find the perfect woman for you. You can't get there from here.

First things first. Here is what you need to do, the short version.

1)Get your life in order.
Prove that you can do more than one thing for more than a week at a time. Prove that you can stay away from raves and drugs and illicit sex for more than a year. Learn to be faithful to yourself.

Get your head clear. You can't possibly decide much of anything until you get your head straight.

As for the business opportunities, see #1 on the short list above.

God bless,
Gimble

catandbj -

Thanks for the post, and welcome to MB....

---------------
I believe that the BS becomes more accepting of the possibility of divorce and actually weighs more towards the idea of a future without the "damaged goods" that is the WS.
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Yes, I do believe she is now damaged goods. How can I look her in the eye and respect her like a H should respect his W, if she has done what she has done...continued to have the A despite knowing the damage to our M and my emotional state...been a facilitator to a child having to split his time between D'd parents...and then tried to justify it all?

I just don't think it is possible.

Your post was very insightful and spot on, IMHO...


AW-

I have yet to sit down with a lwayer. I am planning on it sometime next week. Business has picked up a bit, so time is becoming more and more scarce. I will post my options - or at least as much as I feel is prudent - once I meet with him...

I used to think there was a 50/50 chance I would end up D'd...now it feel more like 70/30 in favor of it. With no children, and her age, and her family's opinion...things are sure stacking up against her.

I haven't given up yet, but I am closer than ever.


Trix & Gimble -

I do want to do what's right, but I somewhat feel like I have missed out on many experiences that everyone else gets. I grew up so fast that I didn't get to be carefree and reckless. I didn't get to learn these lessons personally. I know there are pitfalls and downsides to these activities, but I wonder if I will feel incomplete without running the gauntlet that is the process of maturing. If my wife had remained faithful, I could have, and would have, accepted my place in life and lived without. But now that I am presented with this crisis/opportunity, I am wondering if it isn't time to catch up with the general populous.

Most people don't learn very well from others instructions...they have to go out an make the very mistakes they were warned about. Then they look back and say, "If only I had listened..." But would they have ever listened?

Keep in mind these are all just thoughts for the most part at this time. Things I am contemplating. I have a plan for my marriage, and am working on my direction for my work/school/whatever.... I just don't know if I should refrain from dating anymore. At least casually dating - dinner, movie, outdoor activities, whatever.

All I have ever really known is my WW...maybe I am selling myself short...

TM

In my opinion, this is an example of irrational thinking. Analyze the logic behind this paragraph: you moved rapidly from youth to adulthood and in this transition you reasonably acted with responsibility and good principles. But you believe that what is really good for you is to act in a more impulsive and emotionally driven manner as opposed to actions guided by principles and morals, simply because others have gone this route.

You state that you didn't get to "learn these lessons personally". But you are making this statement on the foundation that what you did was correct, you simply think that you reached the correct end in a less than flamboyant manner. So, you believe that it is better to reach the correct end in a convoluted manner rather than a direct path?

Personally I think you are using a collectivist mentality to justify your emotional desires; essentially the idea that the "group" knows better than the "individual". Instead of being proud and accepting that what you did was good, you are looking at others to determine your actions. Would this be the best path into medical school? Because many have not applied themselves, gotten bad grades, struggled to be accepted into medical school, would you choose this route simply because you "feel" that such struggles may give them a "better" appreciation of the end goal compared to the person who gave up immediate gratification, studied hard and was quickly admited?


"A stupid man does not learn from his mistakes. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

Because it's never about 'just sex', especially for women, and you know it. Unmarried sex often clouds a man's judgement and makes him more susceptible to make unwise decisions that are not in his, or the woman he's physically intimate with, best interests.

There is a huge difference between having sex and making love. The former will leave you feeling empty while the latter will fill your life with joy. And only the woman you love and becomes your W can give you that joy that goes beyond the pleasure of lust.

TMCM

Hi, TM.

Quote:
=======================================
I do want to do what's right, but I somewhat feel like I have missed out on many experiences that everyone else gets. I grew up so fast that I didn't get to be carefree and reckless. I didn't get to learn these lessons personally. I know there are pitfalls and downsides to these activities, but I wonder if I will feel incomplete without running the gauntlet that is the process of maturing. If my wife had remained faithful, I could have, and would have, accepted my place in life and lived without. But now that I am presented with this crisis/opportunity, I am wondering if it isn't time to catch up with the general populous.
=======================================

Oh, I see. Maybe you want a life like mine. It was reckless and carefree for about 3 minutes.

I will tell you how I started feeding my 14 year old entitlement. The first step for me was leaving home. I was putting needles in my arms at 14, TM. Is that what you want to aspire to. Is that solid enough experience for the "general populous"?

Maybe you just want the sex. I think I stick up heads and shoulders above the rest on that one too. Is that what you think you want; lots of sexual experience?

How many mistakes do you want to make before you think you have arrived your idea of the 'just like everyone else quotient'? Maybe you want to work up to my status.

I tried to make sure that I didn't 'miss anything', just like you are wanting to do. I survived it. Some of my friends didn't. How much is enough? How far do you want to take it?

You say that you want to "learn these lessons personally". Exactly how do you plan to do destructive things to yourself in measure? When will you know you have gone far enough? What in the world makes you think that you can control it?

You say: "I wonder if I will feel incomplete without running the gauntlet that is the process of maturing."

I can't answer that because I have run the gauntlet and survived. I can tell you from the other side, that because of my past, I live with crap that you can simply not imagine. I can also tell you this - you don't want to go there. If you think that affairs are painful, you keep thinking and acting the way you are, and you will discover that there really are monsters under your bed, just waiting to eat your guts out for breakfast.

The very first step for you, is to lose the drinking, clubbing, raves (and x), and give your brain a chance to heal.

If you want honest opinions about improving your life, I will be glad to help. If you want me to play at your pity party, you will have to find another clown - Homey don't play that.

Gimble

Ouch, my head....

I didn't realize the amount of 2x4's that were inbound when I posted my last post. I need to get an air raid siren installed I guess... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



catjandbj -

Again a very insightful post, and I agree that my thinking is flawed...keep in mind these are things that are going through my head, not that I personally agree with the underlying concepts. It may be my sense of revenge, or loss of innocence, or even BS fog that still affects my otherwise clear thinking mind. Or, like Gimble believes, it could be my extracurricular activities....


TMCM -

Thanks for chiming in on my thread...

I don't know the difference between the two very well, as my WW "plucked me off the vine" at avery young age, and I had very limited sexual experience leading up to meeting my wife. I guess she was somewhat of my sexual "sherpa". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't believe that I will persue massive amounts of casual sex - it is just not who I am. But I am receiving a huge amount of advice from multiple friends to, "go out and meet aother women, and have a good time...forget about your wife, and move on..." etc, etc. It is hard to remain alone since I have never really been alone.


Gimble -

Thank you for sharing more of your history. I do not intend on immersing myself in all that is evil. I just wonder sometime if I have been so responsible, so mature, so grown up...that I never found out how to have fun. I tied my identity to my performance - in school, in work, in everything I did. I am, and have been, my own worse critic. I am a perfectionist.

I don't want any of the things that you listed in your post...but I do want to find a way to be content, and.....happy.

I have always been driven by an "I'll show them" mentality...now I am afraid that this life experience will only intensify this drive. I know I will want to go out and get an MD - a track I was originally on earlier in my life - just to one-up my WW. A poor motivator, I know.

I would like to discuss some other things with you off of the boards...I will send you an email.

------------------


I am very sore (physically and emotionally) today. I ran into my MIL last night - I was walking into the gym, and her and my BIL were walking out. Incidentally, this is the first time I have seen him face to face since moving back from CA over two months ago.

The three of us discussed issues just a bit, and my MIL immediately returned to her, "Well, WW was just sooooo lonely...well, WW was just soooo unhappy....." Blah, blah, blah.....

I got very angry, and told her that this was yet another reason that I did not see my WW and I ever reconciling. The fact that she continues to defend her daughter, when her daughter's actions are indefensable...and then justifies those actions as acceptable! AAARRRRGGGGGGHHHH!

And this is a woman with whom I was very close. No longer.

So I about killed myself at the gym...worked out longer and harder than regularly....and this morning had to be at work a bit earlier than normal. What fun.

I thought this would get easier as time went on. Sure doesn't seem like it to me.


TM

Hi, TM.

Quote:
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I have always been driven by an "I'll show them" mentality...now I am afraid that this life experience will only intensify this drive. I know I will want to go out and get an MD - a track I was originally on earlier in my life - just to one-up my WW. A poor motivator, I know.
===========================

I don't think it is necessarily a poor motivator. A swift kick in the [censored], or a gentle nudge from behind; both will often get you moving forward. It is all in how you decide to respond.

Quote:
===========================
I would like to discuss some other things with you off of the boards...I will send you an email.
===========================

You are welcome to email me anytime.

Quote:
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So I about killed myself at the gym...worked out longer and harder than regularly....and this morning had to be at work a bit earlier than normal. What fun.
===========================

That is what you do. Get serious with the free weights. Take it out on the steel. It will build your body, clear your mind, and strengthen your character.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble -

I have been getting serious with the free weights...probably too serious. I went to the Dr this week for a full check-up and oil change <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and I am down about 34 lbs. since my last visit, albeit almost two years ago. I work out anywhere from 4-7 days a week. I am told this may be too much. A great stress reliever, though.

Now if I could just keep myself out of the nightclubs...

I will work on that.

-------------

Day before yeststerday was an anniversary of sorts. Six months to the day that my WW asked me for a D and moved out.

She is now in Central America on a surgery trip - headed by the OM. You know, the one she said she just HAD to go on...so she had better not make any waves - like throwing the OM out of her house - until the trip was over...no matter how much it tore my heart to shreds.

Its funny, though...I am actually not hurting as much as in weeks and months past. I am not sure if it is just part of the rollercoaster, or that I am actually letting go.

I should also get all my STD test results today.

I am hoping for at least a B+ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


TM

Hey TM,

Those feelings of not really caring are the fruits of Plan B. This is why you go to Plan B. When I went to Plan B, a little while after, I found out my wife went to Florida to meet his family. Did it hurt? Sure. But was I better able to handle it? Yep. I had my kids, they were living with me. I did not need to be a part of that messed up world that they had created. The one devoid of God.

So, this is one of the blessings of Plan B. Enjoy it. But I would caution you with taking these feelings and saying that means you are done. I thought the same thing...and then my wife showed up on my door a month later wanting to reconcile.

And it was funny what I actually felt immediately. Feelings I thought were dead, but were instead only dormant.

You are doign fine. Just stay dark and keep working out. You want to look your best for whatever lady ends up with you right? Even if that is your WW.

In His arms

Got a call from my Dr. yesterday - all clear! I wasn't that worried, but it sure gives one peace of mind to know one is disease free. And he went on to say that my cholesterol is better than normal, my BP was down, sugars were perfect, etc, etc....I guess I get an A+!

I think my torture chamber - AKA the gym - is starting to show some results.

I am also eating much healthier than ever...thanks, in part, to my mother's cooking. So I guess it is not all bad living at home temporarily.



I had a very eventful weekend (yet again).

Yes, I beat the [email]cr@p[/email] out of myself with late nights (early mornings?), very little sleep (actually stayed up from Sunday at 2pm to about midnight Monday), and partying way too much. I am not going out this Friday, and considering staying in Saturday night as well.

I know everyone here will be chastising me for my extracurricular activities, but know this: I have purposely avoided any sexual contact - even kissing. Even if I am raging against myself right now, I am not furthering the destruction of my marriage. This will be in her lap, not mine.

I also can feel the end of this period of my life nearing. Maybe this time period was my final protest, my last salvo of anger....before acceptance.

I had some experiences this past weekend that were of the kind that one remembers for a lifetime. An epiphany, a turning point, a discovery....actually discoveries. Something that has bothered me for years, I settled this weekend.

I am sorry to be so vague, but I am not prepared to share some of my issues in a public forum. Just be happy for me that I have finally laid to rest something that has disturbed me for literally most of my life. I also was able to be a beacon of light to someone else - not in the A sense, but the spiritual sense.

All in all, it was a great weekend. Now back to real life....


TM

Hi, TM.

I am glad that the doc gave you an 'all clear'.

Give us an update when you can.

Be good,
Gimble

Mortarman -

Thanks for keep your eye on me. I trust your advice, even if I am a poor plan B student.

Gimble -

I still haven't sent you that email I told you about earlier...I will soon.


---------------

Tomorrow is a bit of an anniversary for me - ONE MONTH N/C with my WW. She should have returned stateside on Saturday or Sunday from her trip that included the OM. Not a peep from her - even on my b-day - which she could have done via her mother and been respectful of my wishes.

I am not surprised, though.


I am still having too much fun on the weekends. I went to sleep on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday mornings at 8am, 11 am, and 5:30am respectively. My best friend is really p-o'ed at me right now because of my irresponsible treatment of myself and my health. And she's right.

I just am going out of my mind right now being in such limbo. This almost seems worse to me than knowing I was going to be D'd for certain. I am just too goal oriented.

But y'all would be proud of me today...I turned down an invitation to go with some of these party friends down to South Padre for a week or so...who knows what kind of trouble I would find there and in Mexico. I really have too much to do, that I have allowed to fall by the wayside.

Maybe I will stay in next weekend. Definately at least not go out Sunday night. That is too much for me.

I haven't met with a lawyer yet, but it should happen soon. I need to know exactly what all my options are fairly quickly. My date is approaching soon.

Thanks for everyone's help thus far, and feel free to chime in at will. I can use all the help I can get - time is short for my M.


TM

Hi TM!
Sounds like you are on the downside of the coaster right now. I, like you have been there before and very well might be there again. If you have kept up with my other thread you will know that I have put the brakes on this D train. Something that I believe God has led me to do. Thats where I am at and I feel very strongly about it.
I wanted to shout out to you to let you know that you have had a positive effect on me. No....I am not going out doing the rave thing! :-) On several occassions you had mentioned about getting in the gym and hitting the weights. Well, I have been running and lifting like a madman! I feel great! I am sleeping even better than I was before. Just wanted to know that you inspired me indirectly to do this! Kinda funny.....you were sowing a positive seed and didnt even know it!

Thanks!

WCNT -

Thanks for letting me know that I am helping at least one person. I feel like such a drain on all those around me right now.

---------------

I have been considering going back on Zoloft, but have held off because I partially blame my 2 years on the drug for hastening the destruction of my marriage. I originally took it for anxiety, and I believe it caused me to fall into a low grade depression.

But I am no doctor, so who knows...

I really need to start relying on God more, so I can again have peace in my life. I feel angry at Him right now, for allowing such betrayal, such pain, such unfairness to take place in my life. I know He didn't cause it, but he sure allowed it. And I was, for the most part, a very good person. I always put my needs last...to the point of resentment.

I am down a bit, but stabilzing I think. The gym really does help...

I also have a question. Those of you that have followed my story know that my WW is due back in Houston - supposedly - around mid July, when her residency ends. The OM is moving to San Francisco around the same time, for the same reason. Again, this is all in theory, based on what my WW has told me in the past. I take it all very lightly because we all know what WS's do best, that is, LIE.

So I have set a date in my mind, before her alleged departure date, when I am to file for D. I am thinking this would be best, because if I took her back, just because she couldn't be with the OM due to geography, the victory would ring hollow. In fact, I wouldn't view it as a victory at all. So the way I see it, at least presently, is that she must chose me prior to the end of her residency, or lose me forever. I have suffered enough, and we have no children or other obligations to give me any extra reasons to work any more for this.

Am I being premature?

I know in "Not Just Friends" Dr. Glass refrences a couple where the wife came back only because her lover dumped her first. Glass mentioned that it made the reconciliation that much harder. I am not sure we would survive reconciliation already, due to how my WW has used me previously....much less so if she does something that will make reconciliation "that much harder..."

Does that make sense?

These are just some things that have been crusing through my mind lately.

TM

"I really need to start relying on God more, so I can again have peace in my life. I feel angry at Him right now, for allowing such betrayal, such pain, such unfairness to take place in my life. I know He didn't cause it, but he sure allowed it. And I was, for the most part, a very good person. I always put my needs last...to the point of resentment."

TM,
God will give you peace but it may come slowly. Remember, we are doing this on His timetable and not ours. What God can give you right now is hope. I believe that with hope, we can also gain happiness. Yes God did allow this to happen in our lives. Why? Well, in my case because I believe that I wasnt the man he intended for me to be. So, Satan being the opportunist that he is came right through the front door of my home and wreaked havoc upon my life and the life of my WW. So, now I have come to realize that I must turn the evil around for good. That is God's plan. This is how we win our battles and the battle for God. Remember, God does win this battle. It is inevitable.
You are not a drain on others, just as I believe I am not a drain either. Others want to help. Again, turning evil into good. Whether we save our marriages or not, we can all come out better men and women for this. Its our choice.
As far as the timing goes......maybe God has put these circumstances, if they turn out this way, into place for a reason. I recall the scripture of when Satan attempted to tempt Christ. Christ's response was "thou shall not put the Lord, to a test." Or something to that effect. So, in a sense, when we put time limitations into effect in our situations, it is just another case of our will versus His will. I would urge you to be careful about that.

Any others have a take on my plan to file? Am I being to hasty?

I feel certain that once my WW is back in TX, and away from the OM, she will want to work on our M. I just think I will feel like leftovers by then...she never really chose me.

I was considering moving on with my life - school, etc - without filing, but as Gimble said, "...users can smell pretend from a mile away..." and this wouldn't be a full "moving on" without begining the D process.

Thoughts?


TM

"I feel certain that once my WW is back in TX, and away from the OM, she will want to work on our M."

TM,
and the problem with this scenario is............? What? As long as you insist that the "work" is done under the guiding principles of MB, I dont understand why you would not give it an effort.
I am sure that some of my friends and family might be questioning as to why I would still accept WW back. In reality, if the reconciliation attempt was done under MB principles, I would do it. I dont believe I could try under any other circumstances.
This a hard road we have chosen. But ultimately it is one that gives us and our WW's a chance at true happiness. To me it is worth it if we are given the opportunity.
Just my opinion. Others know much more than I do though. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

Hi, TM.

I thought that the plan was for you to move on, and if wife wants to, she can catch up. Let her do the work instead of playing you again.

Here is the deal. She has played you to get what she wants for years. The only way to test her sincerity, is for her to prove herself to you while operating 'stand alone'. That means no props, crutches (you). Just her doing what she has to do to win you back. That does NOT mean her making more empty promises to you.

Anything less than that, and you get back the same entitlement package that you have now. Do you want someone that dumped you for a career?

She has major character issues, TM. They have to be addressed, and you are NOT the one that can fix them.

Go file and stop looking back. That's pretending too.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble -

Yes, that was the plan...my feet are just getting slightly nippy as my decided upon date nears.

Do you think I should file even if she comes to her senses, kicks the OM out, and wants to start working on our M before my deadline? (Not that this will happen, but let's think in the hypothetical here)


WCNT-

I just don't know if I would have any self-respect left. I feel like I may end up going the rest of my life a beaten-down shell of a man, always the one to acquiesce to her every desire, and getting little, if anything, in return.

Sounds grim, I know, but the two years previous to my WW's A were more or less that way. I just worked, and furthered her goals in life. Mine didn't exist in our world.

TM

TM,
Divorce her and do it now. Do not pass go, do not collect $100 do not look back. Do not allow this woman anywhere near your life never mind in your life.

Is this definative enough for you? No...then how about this?

She is toxic to your health and welfare. Bad medicine, bad karma, just bad! Stop jerking around with this and get yourself gone from anywhere she is.

Have I made my feeling clear?
Coach