She is looking for a good excuse to blow at you and walk off. Don't give it to her.

Please don't give it to her.

I am on the verge of Plan B. The best my wife can come up with to throw at me know is how I was acting during her affair when she wouldn't give me the time of day.

That is behavior that went on prior to 5 months ago and was when she was her angriest with me (and I had not idea why).

She really can't come up with anything I did wrong the last 5 months except for exposure.

P.S. My wife likes the back-of-the-neck kiss. Hope it works for you. Seems to be less intrusive.

My anticpated results from the exposure have been very far of the mark thus far. I spoke with a SIL today, and she said she didn't think my claim was valid. She did not give any direct answers, but said that she would discuss the matter with the other sisters. I realize that they are all conflict avoiders. I anticipate a storm from W, but I may be wrong there as well, I may be met with total indifference. I would take the storm anyday. Time will tell. I am hopeful that I haven't blown the Thursday MC session. I am hopeful that W will pull back from the edge. I am done making predictions.

Hi, Forged.

Define valid.

She doesn't consider your wife as in an affair?

Don't forget the whole 'blood is thicker than water' deal. Sister in law may actually be a facilitator, no way to know for sure right now.

I would rather see your wife blow a gasket than be indifferent right now. Time will tell, Forged.

Hang in there.
Gimble

I agree that sil could be a facilitator. She doen not think it an affair. She was the first person I told of my suspicions. She was upset initially. W was upset with her for tallking to me. SIL is now off my list of possible help.

I am hopeful for a blow out. I am fearful of indifference. W has avoided my call twice today. SOOO no dinner for her. I am going to the gym instead.

I had an ugly realization today. W does not need to squirrel funds for a love nest. FIL has several furnished model homes in the neighborhoods where she works. Free nest. I suppose that is why OM is never ever ever ever home when I drive by. Not once. (not that I drive by that much, but it is on the main road into town.)

I will aly off the exposure tactics with SILs. They are all probably facilitating the R. I will end up looking like a desperate loser if I try any harder to show them the facts. I am certainly not a loser, and am not desperate. I am firmly committed to fixing M, but as you said, Gimble, that is a two person job. I am in the meantime 100% commited to eliminating LBs and getting my ducks in a row.

So far my exposure has been met with casual indifference. Not what I ahd hoped for. W backed out of MC Thusday, citing work reasons. She said next week would be OK, but I am not holding my breath. She didn't get home until 10:00, and said about three words to me. Fun Fun

OK, she said more than three words now, but I wish she hadn't. I now know that the exposure was a bust. I now know that W's entire family knows about All of our issues. W told them I had no sex drive, which is untrue. She said that no one she talked to has EVER heard of a man rejecting a woman. I have now been painted as a freak of nature.

She said that she is more angry at herself for letting things go on for as long as she did than she is at me for the role I played in our probs. She said that she does not want the M because she doesn't want to end up regretting another attempt.

I don't know how I can face her family at this point. I am beginning to wonder if W isn't just sick of me, and is talking to OM to get me to leave or throw her out.

I don't wish to tie her down ar make her suffer in this marriage. I have been told many times that I can't change her mind for her. I am changing me, and she has made it clear that it doesn't matter.

I told her that I had no intention of giving her a divorce. I requested several more MC sessions before making any decisions. I am not giving up, but I feel beaten down.

and is talking to OM to get me to leave or throw her out.

<bites tongue>

How can a person be so cruel as to force another person into making a decision instead of being and adult and choosing their own way.

I am there with you bro. Please share the answer if you find it.

{{FORGED}}

Hi, forged.

So you got a bloody nose. Big deal.

You didn't expect that she wouldn't paint you as some freak of nature and herself pure as fresh fallen snow did you? Maybe your in laws are stupid enough to believe that anything she says justifies her actions. Some people may be that stupid, but I bet you that her whole family is NOT.

What she told her relatives is text book.

So, what are you going to do? Give up? Or are you going to continue to fight for your marriage. You told me at the start that you wanted to fight.

Forget the marriage counselor. She may go, but she is not going to work on your marriage until the other man is history, she will go so that the marriage counselor can 'help prepare you for divorce'. I will bet the farm that those are her intentions for counseling.

I want you to go and read other posts here. There are a lot of successes, back from the brink of divorce, some even after a divorce.

This game is in the first quarter. It is a bit early to throw in the towel.

I want to tell you something. If you are going to do this thing, don't you let her see you waver on your goal to save your marriage. You may let her see you angry, or hurt, but you don't let her see you waver from your conviction.

If you need to whine or vent, do it here, not at home.

Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FORGED:
<strong> I don't know how I can face her family at this point. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You face them with your chin up and empowered by the fact that you told them, the TRUTH. That is something that your wife is sorely lacking in her life right now.

Your sex drive is not the issue here, her affair is. If she should for some unfathomable reason bring up your sex drive with relatives in front of you, then you will need to give her and THEM the standard script.

You have told her that you are willing to work on your marriage and address any issue, as soon as the other man is out of your marriage. She doesn't like that. She will try to convince anyone that will listen that EVERYTHING, including the weather, is your fault.

She is squirming. That means that your exposure has had an effect.

This is good.

Gimble

Gimble, you are correct, as usual. She certainly did squirm some more this morning. It hasn't brought her home any earlier today, I may see her after 9:00, we will see. I had a lovely day, nonetheless.

Hi Forged
(this is take two-the first was lost in cyber space grrr)


"IMO the help should come from someone who isn't emmotionaly involved." Any ideas?
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What I ment was that friends and family will always be biased and even though they are well meaning they really do not know what is best for you. That is why working closely with an MFC will help the two of you clarify the messages you are trying to convey with each other.
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"It seems as though(to me) you are smothering her...That isn't what a plan A is." Could you elaborate on this statement?
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I said this based more on a feeling, rather than something more objective, that I have gotten from what you have written here. If she fills out the questionaire you will have something more tangible to work with. If she doesn't fill it out you will have to ask her what her needs are. I would only ask once and give her the time she needs to respond. This is an area where the MFC can be of assistance to you.
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I am seeing an IC, and am working my way through this muddy mess. I don't care about the house or anything material at this point. All I can do is offer my willingness to work on M, be as strong as I can be, show her that my changes are real, and pray.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have nailed it with this statement. You can only hope that she will repond to the "new and improved" you. It has taken time to get where you are today and it will take longer to change your situation.

I am fortunate that my W wanted our M. She continued to love inspite of my betrayl,lies,fog,more lies depression and other assorted BULLS***. This saved me from being alone and on the streets.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your clarification on the above points may enable my understanding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope there is some claification for you in this.
H

The more attampts at this post I make, the shorter the post gets. I am down to the patience to only put up a recap opf the last week.

Easter: Discovered W took off her wedding ring. She took it off a week ago, and had kept it with her eyeglass cleaner in the glove box of her car. In the ensuing conversation, W admitted to meeting with OM on several occaisions for "walks" I put the ring on my pinky, and kept it despite her prostests " Don't keep it, I want it, I'll put it back on, don't make a scene" I said, " I do not intend to keep the ring, it is your ring. I made it for you, to fit only your finger, as a symbol of my undying love for you. I have no desire to keep your ring, nor will I make any sort of scene. I will not let you disrespect this symbol by leaving it in your GB. I will give it back when you want to wear it, or when you leave me for good."
This was all on the way to church, before her family easter brunch. At first I said I would drop her off, but decided to attend, and held my head up the whole day.

Monday: MC with my IC. Uneventful. W said she wanted D. C said ti may be time to throw in the towel. I received test results for a Testosterone test. They came bak low, offering a solution to my low drive issue. W gave no response to news. I returned ring to W. She thanked me, and said she wanted it. I told her I want her to have it, but would prefer that she wore it

Tue: I played racquetball with a friend, and then went kayaking with another friend. W was very PO'd when she came home. I pointed out that i asked her if she would be able to go yaking this week, and offered to help her with her job in order to make time, she refused. She didn't return my three calls on Monday, yet she had the nerve to be mad that I didn't call on Tue to see if she could go.

Wed: MC with her IC. My first time seeing him. The first five minutes were essentially an attack on me, wtin him insinuating that I knew the depth of W's M probs, yet did nothing about them. He also insinuated that I am scrambling to make these changes as a last ditch effort. My hackles raised, and I let him know that i felt attacked, and would sit through it. He backed down, apologized, ands aid that was his style, and W was used to it. W said she was done, and pushed again for D. I said I was willing and able to fight for our M. I said that W's claim to be "trying to find herself" was not believable, since she was spending so much time with OM, she was as wrapped in his probs as ours. I again sought NC. When W got home, I asked if she talked to OM. She first made a joke about it, and pretended that I was referring to someone she worked with that had the same first name. I let her know that it was hurtful for her to joke about a serious question. She said her called her. I asked if she mentioned NC to him. She said she had, and he told her it was her choice.

Her chice, to be sure, and it is apparent that her choice is to continue contact with OM. My hands are tied at this point. I continue to make improvements and have remained strong throughout the new revelations. I am preparing my Plan B letter. I am not ready to use it, but I need to be soon.

Hi, FORGED.

You said that your parents came down hard on you after talking to your wayward wife, and that your parents didn't know she is involved in an affair.

You need to expose to your parents immediately. They need to know the truth.

It is also time to widen your circle of exposure.

Gimble

I believed I had exposed to my folks, but clearly they did not recieve the message as I intended. I will talk to them today.

When do I go to plan B? W has taken every precaution since MC not to send any mixed signals. I hugged her when she got home from work last night, and she said, "Is this a mixed signal?" I said, no, it is a hug.

If I go to plan B, will she percieve it as me scrambling to control the split, when she is the one to initiate the split? She made me realize today that I have been controlling in our relationship. When we met, she was a very independent and strong willed person. I don't know how things changed so much. I suspect that my overwhelming compulsion to "help" people has caused much of this change. I never directly degraded her or the results of her actions, nor belittled her efforts or ideas. But I am beginning to see that in my efforts to "help", I was doing just that. I am too quick with the help, too eager to offer "an easier" way or a "better" way to do things. Many times, the offered solutions were better or easier, but I suppose my point is, the other ways were fine.

I never even imagined that I was a controlling person. I always pictured a controlling person as someone who uses insult, degradation, and guilt to get their way. I seem to have smothered her with my desire to help. I seem to have caused her to turn her independence into resentment, her joie de vivre into misery.

I am not taking all of the blame. I am merely coming to terms with the fact that I embody characteristics that I truly detest. Throughout my life, I would help my father with projects. I would be the part shuffler, the wrench hander, the gopher. I would offer ideas, and would be summarily ignored. I have taken on that persona. I have become that man, and I have driven the love of my life to seek love elsewhere.

Hi, Forged.

I don't know if you are controlling or not, but you can't let her alter your plan of action because your wayward wife tried to blame you for her bad choices.

Look at it this way, anything she says to you until she is committed to the marriage, has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Simply put, most everything that she says is to justify her actions and assuage her guilt. It has little to nothing to do with you.

I wouldn't take much to heart until you are in recovery, then you need to really hear what she has to say.

This why your response to hear needs to stick to the lines of the default script for plan A'rs that are negotiating an end to the affair.

"Wife, I am ready and willing to do whatever it takes to repair our marriage. We can't do that with a third person in our marriage. We can start just as soon as the other person is out of our marriage and you agree to never contact him again."

Or whatever your version is.

Plan A, your plan, is about negotiating an end to the affair. You have read SAA and know what is expected of you during Plan A.

Stick to the plan.

It is WORKING, don't mess it up.

God bless,
Gimble

W was not home when I returned from workout, so I showered, ate dinner, and left again, meeting a friend for a pint. W had not returned my call for the day, so she had no idea where I was when I returned. She had left two messages on my cell, wondering where I was.

This morning she told me she didn't want me to go to NJ with her next weekend for the christening of our neice. I would prefer to go, as I am close with the NJ inlaws, but I will respect her request. I will continue on my GAL path.

W asked what I got out of the MC w/ her IC. I told her that after the attck, I didn't get much, beyond the fact that she saw me using my low test results as an excuse. I told her that it was no excuse, and I look forward to healthy SF, whether with her or my next wife. I said I would very much prefer that it be with her, provided she ceases contact with OM, but that her choice would not affect my quest for health and happiness.

As she was preparig to leave I slipped behind her and gave her a big hug, kissed her neck, and told her that I wanted her. It felt nice, but I think it made her uncomfortable. I need my squeezin', so I gave one.

I feel like everday she gets a little more secretive, a little sneakier. It is an unsettling feeling, to be sure. SHe can't look me in the eyes without getting squemish or shifting her gaze. If she does look into my eyes for any length of time, when she looks away she seems to struggle to recompose. I wish I knew what was really going on in her head.

When I ask about OM(by last name), every time, her reply is, I have a mind of my own. I told her this morning that I am well aware of that fact, and she is using her mind to make the decision to remain in contact with OM. I said I didn't think he was brainwashing her, but rather she was conciously choosing him over me. That pretty much ended our R talk, thankfully. W seems to like bringing up R talk right before she leaves. I would much prefer it if she brouht it up after she gets home for the evening, but since she never seems to get home before 10, and last night it was nearly 11, it leaves little energy to talk.

I need to work on my plans. I am a poor planner by nature. I am sure that is what got me into this sitch. I am working to develop those skills.

I decided to drive by the Model Home W cleans every Sat, for several hours before her yoga class. OM's car was in the drive. I refrained from approaching the house. I went to the corner market, called OM's W, who suggested pictures. I bought a kwiky cam and shot a few somewhat distant pics. I don't know what good they are. This sucks.

Hi, Forged.

I think I covered most of your other points in email.

As for the photos, hang on to them. They may help out later on.

You are right, all this does suck.

Please reread this article by Dr. Harley.

Hang in there Forged.

Gimble

Forged,

I have just started following your thread. I have nothing to offer which isn't already being covered except what WAT has said regarding his wife leaving him for a good friend.

WAT said that the OM's wife reacted so badly to the affair that she may have pushed OM off the fence into his WW's arms.

Try to get your friends wife to come here and learn of Plan A, so she can handle things well from her end.

Bless you Forged, and keep on hanging on.

And I hate that you keep blaming yourself for this, even though you say you are not, it seems like you are a bit.

YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME for other peoples bad choices!

Thanks for the replies, Gimble & Weaver.

I am sure OM's W has pushed OM. She dumped my cell phone evidence on him right after I told her, despite my request for a little time first. OM told my W, who cancelled my access. He moved out over a month ago, and has become a monster, snooping through all of his W's paperwork, and marking on her legal documents. She is considering a restraining order if he goes back again unannounced.

I think it is too late for OM's W to Plan A, as she is well on the way to D. I will make the rec for her to check out the BB.

I appreciate the shoulder shake. I do have a hard time stopping my self blame. I am using her ammo against myself, STS. I am working on it.

W will not let me meet any of her EN's. NONE. What am I supposed to do in that case. I do smell nice, and am working out. I am trying very hard to avoid LBs. I am not sure how I can meet her needs if she is absent. No affection, no SF, no conversation, no RC, etc.
As it stands, I am honest and open, but that is not a characteristics she places much value in right now. I am attractive <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> , but her eyes are diverted. I have been paying all of the bills this year, including the balance carrying credit card in her name. I have done all of the DS since OCT. I have shown her admiration. I have tried to validate her feelings and avoid the DJs, for the most part I have been successful.

DO I confront her with this discovery? DO I ask her if she saw him first, or tell her I know she saw him? Do I ignore it?

Her father won't care that she had a visitor. They won't believe she is doing anything iomproper unless I had pics of them in the act, at the least.

I was not directly invited to the christening. Perhaps inadvertantly by another BIL, who asked if I was going. I won't go, It is not in the cards. It would become to adversarial. I don't want to be trapped in jersey with a family that wants me gone. They ignored my exposure, and ceased communication with me.

I will keep my chin up, lest I get kicked in the teeth. I will keep on the PMA, and try every possible way to meet her needs.