So there it is."

Translation: And I hope you know that it is YOUR fault that I am having these chest pains. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I vote for Ploy...the man has reached desperation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

It's just another ploy designed to buy some more OW time. He says NOT A DAMN THING about doing what he needs to do get back into the marriage, and that is dump the ho-bag and demonstrate that his affair has ended. He says nothing about quitting his job.

Its a bunch of nothing, K. Hang tight.

Well, just so everyone can rest easy, WH called and left me a message saying that he was okay, that it just must have been stress.

He went on to say that he didn't know why he was calling me.....that I really didn't care about him anyway.

Then, he just called and left a teary message that he really needed to talk to me. Would I please call him.

Another method of manipulation.

I see it so clearly now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K

IMHO stay dark - night vision dark (as someone here once advised me)

It's not just a coincidence that he says he's promising nothing... and he failed to even mention breaking it off with the OW.

He's trying to bait you with hints of reform... without really conceding anything of substance.

Oh, and let me just say what you all are thinking...."Took me long enough!!!!"

Thank you all for your replies, your wisdom, and for being here for me!!!!!

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K, can I nominate your H for Drama King of the Year!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am so proud of you for not falling for his games!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>I choose to remain dark.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are doing the right thing too. I do, however want to suggest this...

I really liked noodle's letter. Not just the letter itself, but the idea of the letter.

Why?

Well, because men can be dumb, panicky animals. Particularily when things don't follow predictable patterns. And you are definitely upsetting paradigm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Which is good.

However, you want to make sure that as panicky as he gets, he's never unsure of where he stands or what he has to do to work things out. So he can fret, and stomp and try to draw you in, and when you don't budge, he will know why. You'd figure he'd know why by now, but he's acting dumb and panicky and I think it's a good idea to make sure that things are as clear for him as possible.

And yes, I know you already have made things clear... just think it can't hurt to lovingly reinforce your position.

Just my .02 cents.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>I choose to remain dark.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">men can be dumb, panicky animals. Particularily when things don't follow predictable patterns. And you are definitely upsetting paradigm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Which is good.

However, you want to make sure that as panicky as he gets, he's never unsure of where he stands or what he has to do to work things out. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dewt:

K7212's Wayward Husband KNOWS full well what needs to be done for possible recovery. There is no need to respond to him in any way, shape, or form. He does not need to know where "he stands". The co-dependancy that K continues have on her WH will take great therapy to recover from. It is my (admittedly amateur opinion) that she NOT TALK TO HIM AT ALL. If she does communicate with him, she sets up the GUARANTEED scenario that he "reels" her back in and starts the cycle back again. K1712 has shown that she DOES NOT have the ability to withstand his BS talk and false promises, the the ONLY solution is HARD CORE, ABSOLUTELY, PITCH BLACK darkness. ANything short of that is going to be a sure fire failure. That I can PROMISE.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

DITTO! The keyword for the day is PITCH BLACK! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Dewt, Lemonman, and Mel....

Yes, my word for the day WAS pitch black.

However, I was ambushed when I walked out the door from work. There was WH.

So, I DID talk to him. I tried to remember EVERYTHING that Noodle so eloquently said.

I'll make this a very short version.

WH continued to try and manipulate me with his words.

I countered everything he said with:

"You are going in the right direction. Stay in counseling. And I appreciate that, but I need to see some action."

"It's going to take a lot longer than 4 days to fix this."

"You are in the bed of your own making."

"I will not back down on this."

"You need to get over OW FIRST."

Etc, etc, etc.

I am very proud of myself for not giving in, and not being sucked in.

At one point, WH said "On one hand I have a loving place to go (OW), and on the other hand I have a place that keeps bashing me - but it's where I want to go."

Me: "I am not bashing you. If the other place is so loving, then go to your loving place. I will not go thru this again."

To me this was just a paraphrasing of his "I gave up a good relationship for us."

To end the whole conversation I said "I don't want a man who is a whipped dog. I want a man who will stand up and do the right thing."

I told him that I could either lay down (give in) and die, or I could stand up and live.

I STAND.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

K,

As long as OW's place looks anything good, your place s/b out of reach. He is hurting because he sees his family slipping away. Yea, you were already slipping away before you went into plan B but this is when he sees it.

Ok, so what t/d? Don't ignore the health or mental issues. Others can check up on him in your behalf. Set up and put your support groups on alert. This does include your children. I watched an Oprah show where 2 grown boys told both their parents they knew something was wrong but the mother tried t/b noble and hide it from her chlidren, relative and friends. She did such a good job but in the end her own sons suffered. The point is our children already know so they will want to help, let them. How much is within your control but any help they know they can give will help them heal also. Be wise and thoughtful in this matter. It will help both you and your family.

In the meantime, the WS will go through his acts. He is certainly groveling in hopes you will give in. You must stand strong, the message you can send via your support group is Ow and all remants (attitudes, habits, material things, etc.) of the A must be gone and not felt by you or your family. He must show he can provide a safe haven for you and your family. Only then will you even consider meeting his needs.

JMHO,
L.

P.S. Lemonman.....(First, please be advised that I am NOT letting you HAVE IT. I'm merely speaking -mostly to myself here - on the things I have learned about ME!)

I never saw myself as co-dependant. However, during the past 3.5 years I feel that I have become so.

I do not know how this happened. But I now am trying to free myself from this behavior.

I now know these things about myself:

I will survive.

I can make it on my own.

I do not mind being alone.

My rose colored glasses are off. I can see how my world really is now.

If WH doesn't like me any other way than flat, square, and laying in front of the door, then he can look somewhere else for a door mat.

I am better than that.

And, I really do want to thank you all (YES, REALLY) for telling me like it is, and what you see.

(((((Lemonman, Mel, bb, Noodle, Weaver, Stillhere, Committed, Dewt, MBers))))

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

YOU GO, GIRL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If WH doesn't like me any other way than flat, square, and laying in front of the door, then he can look somewhere else <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

love that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Hi Orchid and Mel....

Yes, I think WH has a LOT to think about now.

He knows that he has a lot of work to do on himself before I will talk.

As for the health issues, after having worked in the ER for many years, I know that a person does not call someone and leave a message like that when they are REALLY having chest pain.

There was no shortness of breath, no fear, and no pain in his voice.

I have seen too many people with real chest pain to know how they act and how they sound.

I did have DS call his father, but WH did not answer either of his cell phones.

Your advice on the matter is well taken, tho.

It appears for all intents and purposes, that WH is a small child having a tantrum to get his way.

And, even tho he doesn't think he is being manipulative, HE'S THE KING!!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K

ark^^....

AIN'T IT THE TRUTH?!?!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

K

Good Morning.........

Was just reading thru some posts here, and got a knock on the door.

It was WH.

He said he needed to get a few things. So I let him in.

He started talking about yesterday. Said he'd been driving around most of the night thinking.

He wanted to ask me a question "Is the only reason you want to work it out because of the house?"

I told him no. That the house didn't really mean anything to me without him here.

He continued talking.....saying he wants his wife back, his life back. That he is going to continue with IC. That hopefully I will consent to going to MC with him.

He said that he realized all the wrong things he has done. That he will give me all of his passwords. Make his e-mail available to me. He will do everything that I have wanted him to do.

He wants to spend time with me. Live the rest of his life with me.

He said he doesn't want anyone else but me.

I told him that he is going in the right direction, and that is what I wish. That I do want to work things out with him.

He said he was sorry about all of the promises he made and broke. He doesn't want to be like that any more.

So, I feel some hope that he is turning things around for himself.

He said he won't call me, because that is what I want right now. I told him that he needs to work some things out for himself right now.

He agrees.

This sounds much more promising to me than everything that has gone before. But he is still going to have to show me some action before I move any direction toward reconciliation.

Any thoughts? (Of course, this is a very shortened version of what was said)

K

K, it is really important for you to go dark. All this talk means nothing. He has not withdrawn from the OW or quit his job. Do not settle for crumbs. He is desperately trying to get you back on board so he won't have to dump the OW. You realise that, don't you?

Tell him that he needs to send the OW a letter of no contact and leave his job, THEN you will consider taking him back. But until you have seen that happen along with a long term DEMONSTRATION of fidelity, he is just talking CRAP.

Sounds good what about NC letter. Did that come up? If he does stick with this it could work -just wait for his actions. Mine is still sitting there with his thumb up his a$$. I have not seen alot of action -he does treat me nice says ice things. But I am not sure if it is a cover or not. When he talks about his A then I will know he is recovering. He will answer but does not offer you know what I mean ? So I wait -I think I'll be 90 sitting inrocker still waiting.

Deja vu for me here! I remember my H being just like that, especially after I had reinforced my boundaries and he could see that I was getting tougher. My advice is this: every time he can talk to you and give you soothing WORDS and SEE that that gives you some relief and hope, he feels that he can keep walking that fence. He can see that it will take a lot more work to do it than before, but until ACTION happens, it is STILL just TALK.

You know deep down your H wants you and your M, it is just he still wants to cake eat. Your H and mine in that respect are remarkably similar. The feel good fix they get from the desperate OW kissing their a** and telling them how great they are is a stark contrast with the realities of growing up, realizing their own fallibility and making the changes they need to make in themselves and in the M. You represent what he wants, but it will take a lot of work. She is easy and a temporary fix. You wait and see if he will be a MAN or a BOY.

You need to stop being so available to his dropping by etc. You are doing well keeping your boundaries of what you want from the M and him, but he KNOWS it and what he must do. Don't keep going over this ground.

K, this will all work out I truly believe, but it is a very, very long road and he is just ABOUT to step onto the road--you are further ahead.