Deja vu for me here! I remember my H being just like that, especially after I had reinforced my boundaries and he could see that I was getting tougher. My advice is this: every time he can talk to you and give you soothing WORDS and SEE that that gives you some relief and hope, he feels that he can keep walking that fence. He can see that it will take a lot more work to do it than before, but until ACTION happens, it is STILL just TALK.

You know deep down your H wants you and your M, it is just he still wants to cake eat. Your H and mine in that respect are remarkably similar. The feel good fix they get from the desperate OW kissing their a** and telling them how great they are is a stark contrast with the realities of growing up, realizing their own fallibility and making the changes they need to make in themselves and in the M. You represent what he wants, but it will take a lot of work. She is easy and a temporary fix. You wait and see if he will be a MAN or a BOY.

You need to stop being so available to his dropping by etc. You are doing well keeping your boundaries of what you want from the M and him, but he KNOWS it and what he must do. Don't keep going over this ground.

K, this will all work out I truly believe, but it is a very, very long road and he is just ABOUT to step onto the road--you are further ahead.

K,

Your H fits into the category of spouse..who want inequality in the marriage.

He wants to be selectively single, while you remain completely married.

He picked single though when at the point of choice. This is single. Take it or leave it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Noodle

I agree with Anne, because my Wh also has this same routine down pat.

It is not appropriate for your WH to be showing up to talk to you when you've made it clear what he needs to DO (not SAY) in order for you to have contact with him.

IMHO you are making a mistake to speak to him when he shows up. He gets his fix, his assurance that you are still waiting for him, that he still has time to cake-eat.

He is definitely trying to get you to feel sorry for him. This clearly indicates he's not anywhere near ready to grow up AND that he feels he's ENTITLED to getting his needs met by both you and the OW. No doubt he feels anxious about his ability to continue to get his needs met by two women. Too bad, let him squirm.

EVERY time you talk to him he is going think YOU are getting closer to caving in to HIS agenda! STOP giving him false hope that YOU are about to back down!!! I don't think he's even listening to what you're saying to him. And you shouldn't be giving him an audience for the fog he's puffing your way. WHAT is being said really doesn't matter much. The fact that you are talking to him and listening to him feels like a victory to him, like he's going to get his way.

I think you should stay away from home a lot, refuse to answer the door if he comes by, walk right past him without speaking to him if he's standing there in front of you when you walk out your front door.

You could send him another copy of the Plan B letter if you want, and have one on hand at all times to hand it to him when he shows up, but do NOT discuss it any further. Maybe you could circle the part about the no contact letter to the OW in red ink?

He's not in a position to negotiate with you, to dangle promises in front of you to see how much (or little) he has to promise to keep you around. And don't believe for a nanosecond that he plans to actually follow through on any of those promises.

Just stay dark and wait (but don't wait forever).

Oh, and the part about the OW's place being so nice and inviting... Whatever. So she's dumb enough to play doormat for him so he thinks you will too? I'd just let her win that who's a better doormat contest LOL. He's trying to get you to compete with the OW, trying to scare you into backing down. I'd be tempted to call the OW and tell her to come get her 'boyfriend' off of my front porch, that his beggin is getting annoying! Not sure if that's advised but that's what I'd feel like doing LOL.

Thanks all for your replies.....

I have had a very busy day, and couldn't reply until now.

Yes, I agree with what you are all saying. And I do NOT plan on caving, or backing down on my Plan B letter. Or getting sucked into his mess.

The only thing I think I did by talking to him this morning was to let him know, again, that I did want to work things out with him, but he had to do most of that work on his own first.

I don't want to lead him on. I remain firm on my boundaries, and I let him know that.

Just to let you all know that I KNOW that his words mean nothing. Only actions will suffice in this situation.

I will NOT go thru this again. I've had my fill of lies, and empty promises.

Keep me on the straight and narrow, tho. I still need your support. (And, I'm going to have to find ways, and things to do so that I am not accessible to him).

I STAND.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K, here is my biggest concern right now. He keeps imposing himself on your life on a DAILY BASIS so that you get no reprieve from him at all. You will never detach from him at this rate and he will never take you seriously if you continue to engage him.

I think you are going to have to start doing everything to avoid him and discourage him from contacting you. You have asked him continually to not contact you and he has no respect for your wishes.

It is then up to you to cut off contact. And that means DO NOT TALK TO HIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. If he comes to the door, don't answer. If he calls, don't answer. If he shows up at work, WALK ON BY. Every time you engage him after you has asked for NO CONTACT, only emboldens him.

You MUST show him that you are serious so he will go away.

He must understand that you are serious about contacting you or he can't won't understand that you are serious about the rest of your conditions! If you cave on this, then you will cave on the other things.

Hi Mel....

I understand what you are saying.

I do want him to take me and my conditions seriously. I want him to have respect for what I am asking of him. And I know, unless I have respect for my own boundaries, he will have none either.

Thanks for pointing this out to me....the disengaging. He needs to feel seriously alone....and know what I have felt like being alone these past years.

Thank you for your continued support. I hope that I don't appear to be a "Bozo" when it comes to this stuff.....I want to do the right thing, even tho Lemonman may not agree, to save my M.

K

K,

your husband is seeing you on a daily basis and therefore I think that Plan B will not have the affect it should have.

What I suggest: avoid all calls.....

if he comes to your home, you RUN!!!!! You keep him from seeing you!
No conversations!

His reaction will surely be "anger". But it's because you are not reacting the way he wants you to.

Keep all "relationship talking" away from your children, when possible. Ask no questions.

Therefore when your kids do talk with their father and "he" asks them something, they will not know.

GO DARK K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get him thinking!!!! Get him CONFUSED!!!
Make yourself "Mysterious!"

This might sound like "Drama" but I think it's the way it works.

It will not make sence to him. He will feel the "detachment" and he will be questioning what you are up to.

If you can stick to Plan B the right way, it's going to "HIT" him within time. (this is just the beginning!)

Right now, he might be confused but he hasn't got the feeling that you would possibly choose a life without him. He has thought that the choice was in his hands. This is what must be turned around.

The choice is "YOURS!"

He knows that you will not take a 3rd person in your relationship. He's bounced back and forth plenty times.

Break this cycle!!!!

Your husband is confused and he has NO plan whatsoever.

Stay on track!!!!!!!
take care
bb

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>

Thank you for your continued support. I hope that I don't appear to be a "Bozo" when it comes to this stuff.....I want to do the right thing, even tho Lemonman may not agree, to save my M.

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K, I think you are doing a fabulous job! Your H is trying so hard to wear you down, though! He is a persistent bugger, isn't he? Well, I guess he is going to have to learn the hard way that you are more persistent. You are doing great, K! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

p.s. you are proving that old LemonMan wrong! KEEP IT UP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Mel.....

Thought a lot about "plans" for evading contact with WH should he show up at home, or at work.

I think I have come up with some good ones.

And I also think everyone is right.....WH got his K fix, and now doesn't call.

I give him (looking at past performance) about 4 days, then he will start in again, and I will have to put my plan for NC with WH into action.

I have to work today (half of the day). I guess that's good.....more money, and keeping busy and away from home.

Thanks for your suppport, and guidance, Mel.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

bb.....

Thank you for your reply. I think you are absolultely right.

WH has no plan. And I know for a fact that he doesn't "get it" yet.

I plan to stay on track, and go just as dark as I can (even if I have to hide out).

Oh, and when WH ambushed me the other night, he told me that he had changed his passwords on all of his voice mails.

All it makes me think, is that he STILL has something to hide, or it's just some kind of retaliation.

Probably all of the above! Oh, Look! I think my eyes just opened a little bit more!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks bb.....always appreciate hearing from you.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey K,

How's it going?

Still got those night vision dark shades on I hope.

Had a bit of a WH stalking problem myself last weekend. WH just pulled up right next to us at a rest stop along the highway... Then proceeded to hang around us the rest of the weekend - AS IF we were still just one happy family.

I ended up having more contact with him over the weekend than I was happy with (he went to our daughters' skating competition). He was around us a lot but I avoided talking to him as much as possible. Unfortunately our youngest daughter (and one of the other skating moms) interpreted this as my being *****y with him when he was being "so nice" to me... Whatever. WH was even starting to slip back into old routine of inspecting and criticizing... until I told him to back way off. Of course this meant that I had to spend less time with my daughters so he could see them without having contact with me. I stayed in the hotel while they went out to dinner (admiring skating mom and her kid went along...)

But enough about me.

What have you been up to?

Hopefully you've been absent here because you've been staying away from home to avoid your WH's uninvited visits?

Just don't go dark on us LOL

Hi MereMortal....

No, I haven't been staying away. This place is my lifeline.

I haven't gotten one voice mail or call from WH since Saturday.

However, in the mail today I received WH's NC letter to OW. When he wrote it at his sister's house, he made comments like "she owes me big for this", and "does she want me to get a knife and cut my hand so I can sign it in blood?".

I do not think I should send it. Mainly because WH didn't do it "joyfully". He thinks he is having to do this because I am "punishing" him.

Yeah, RIGHT!!!! He has an A for 3.5 years, and I'm punishing HIM!!!! He makes promises, tells me lies, and resumes contact with OW 4 times, and I'm punishing HIM!!!!

I'm thinking.....WHATEVER!

What do you all think I should do with this NC letter?

K

k,

I'd put the letter "away" until his mind clears up.

If this is not coming from his heart and because he means it seriously, it means nothing.

You owe him nothing...............if he wants you and if he wants your relationship.......it's what "must" be done in order to make it work.

From what he is saying, I'd say: Stay Dark!!! He is still "foggy"!!!

It's strange but you read it here alot of times. The WS react angry and demanding.

My husband was very angry towards me after d-d. I still don't really get it. He demanded so many things from me.
It was as if he had given up something that meant the world to him and I felt so low about myself.
When he stopped the affair (immediately) it was as if I owed him so much.

Now many years later, he doesn't understand himself. Nothing makes sence to him. He tells me that he was not clear in his mind and that he was insane. He told me that what he had said was BS (not betrayed spouse).

Btw, can you talk to Steve Harley about your situation??? I think it would be a good idea.

take care
bb

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> Thank you for your continued support. I hope that I don't appear to be a "Bozo" when it comes to this stuff.....I want to do the right thing, even tho Lemonman may not agree, to save my M.

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K:

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO WHAT PART OF "DO THE RIGHT THING" I HAVE NOT BEEN AGREEING WITH with respects to saving your marriage. I don't think I have ever questioned your "motives" just your actions. I am usually calling you out and I can see why that would get "annoying", but even though you may not se that as "support" in the usual sense of this message board, it is way more supportive then you will ever know. Trust me on this. I hate to always be "right" about your situation. Please do not think I find any perverse "pleasure" in your continued struggles with your serially cheating WH.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> p.s. you are proving that old LemonMan wrong! KEEP IT UP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, please tell me how I am being proven "wrong". I think you and K are kind of funny in finding me as an outlet for the struggles she is facing. If "proving" me wrong helps K stay DARK, then I am more than happy to be the catalyst for that. Sign me up right away.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S...."old"............now that is funny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> p.s. you are proving that old LemonMan wrong! KEEP IT UP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, please tell me how I am being proven "wrong". I think you and K are kind of funny in finding me as an outlet for the struggles she is facing. If "proving" me wrong helps K stay DARK, then I am more than happy to be the catalyst for that. Sign me up right away.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S...."old"............now that is funny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are "proving you wrong" that she won't get sucked back into the same old BS as she did before. You don't mind, do ya? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> p.s. you are proving that old LemonMan wrong! KEEP IT UP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, please tell me how I am being proven "wrong". I think you and K are kind of funny in finding me as an outlet for the struggles she is facing. If "proving" me wrong helps K stay DARK, then I am more than happy to be the catalyst for that. Sign me up right away.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S...."old"............now that is funny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are "proving you wrong" that she won't get sucked back into the same old BS as she did before. You don't mind, do ya? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nah, I don't mind at all. I am a big boy, I can handle it. Hopefully I am "proven wrong" and the insanity stops for K7112. I think "actions" will speal volumes here and I am hoping that I am the goat here. Lets all hope for this.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nah, I don't mind at all. I am a big boy, I can handle it. Hopefully I am "proven wrong" and the insanity stops for K7112. I think "actions" will speal volumes here and I am hoping that I am the goat here. Lets all hope for this.

LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We love ya, LM!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

However, in the mail today I received WH's NC letter to OW. When he wrote it at his sister's house, he made comments like "she owes me big for this", and "does she want me to get a knife and cut my hand so I can sign it in blood?".

I do not think I should send it. Mainly because WH didn't do it "joyfully". He thinks he is having to do this because I am "punishing" him.

Yeah, RIGHT!!!! He has an A for 3.5 years, and I'm punishing HIM!!!! He makes promises, tells me lies, and resumes contact with OW 4 times, and I'm punishing HIM!!!!

I'm thinking.....WHATEVER!

What do you all think I should do with this NC letter?


Boy does this sound familiar! Ironic how the WH's and OW think they are doing something so fresh and new... but they all follow the same silly script LOL

My WH sent a no contact letter to the OW before last. I insisted, even though I had never heard of MB yet! But over the years he pretended that I had "made him do it" and that I had "dictated" it to him. The truth is he did it to win me back, but didn't really feel he should have had to. If I had known that at the time, we never would have reconciled then.

This needs to be something that he WANTS to do, that he understands the need for it, and is in joint agreement over.

Behind the WS reluctance over this is an attitude of entitlement, that they should get to keep the BS in their life without having to make the BS feel happy and safe.

There might also be a problem with WS ego - not wanting OP to know the truth because it makes the WS look bad.

And IMHO if the WS is hung up on protecting the feelings of the OP, and that's why they don't want to send the OP the no contact letter, the WS is STILL choosing the OP's feelings/needs over the BS's feelings/needs so no deal.

This was one of the deal-breaker issues that prevented reconciliation with my WXH.

My WXH actually expected me to let him tell the OW and his friends/family that I was forcing him to come back home! I told him if he was more interested in saving face than in saving his marriage, then so be it.

IMHO your WH isn't ready yet. He needs to want you back enough to WANT to do whatever it takes to win you back.

Stay in Plan B until that happens.
What he's offering so far is pathetic and will not provide what you need to feel safe and happy.
He will not respect you if you accept this treatment. And you won't resepct yourself either.