Harley recommends 6 months for Plan A and then 18 months for Plan B.<P>Some people here seem to think if enough crap is built up, then just get it over with now.<P>There are reasons behind the timeframes he sets out.<P>Affairs die. They are based on lies and deceit. Once they are in the open and the affairees see each other in the true light and the damage they have done to all, it will finish. Yes, it's true sometimes they don't end. The reason for Plan A/Plan B is to give them the time to die. They are also for you to look at yourself and the relationship & to see what you/spouse were doing wrong. these are things you need to fix whether you get back together or not. Any relationship needs to follow the MB principles in order to survive & thrive. Sure, some people don't follow all of them all the time and other don't even know about MB, but they still do the correct things in the relationship.<P>Plan A is to assess what you have been doing wrong and for you to try to meet the needs of your spouse you have been neglecting. When the pain of an affair is too much to take, then you switch to Plan B.<P>Plan B is for you. You concentrate on yourself and keep learning the MB principles. This will be essential should your spouse decide to return. If they don't return and you have reached the end of Plan B, then you can end the relationship without causing yourself much of trauma associated with divorce.<P>While doing these plans, you are learning techniques which you apply to your current or future relationships. If you learn nothing by following these except wishing for your spouse to get hit by a train, then you will have a much more difficult time dealing with reconciliation, divorce or future relationships. The main point to following Surviving An Affair is to survive an affair. It is no guarantee it will save the marriage, however it is a pretty solid plan to ensure YOU can recover from whatever path the relationship takes.<P>Plan A/Plan B are by no means easy to do, but neither is divorce. I you follow them to the best of your ability, then you will come out of this crap much better than if you didn't have any plans except to "dump the bum".<P>How's that K?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 30, 1999).]

Chris you read my mind!!!<P>I was thinking of posting something similar - glad you did because you put it so well and make it that much more understandable.<P><BR>THANK YOU!!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Chris:<P>If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were Cliff Note... <P>Excellent summary of the plans. As I've said before, these plans helped me save my marriage; but I could tell that I was going to Surivive the Affair, regardless of the outcome.

That was really good! How about some other principles? - Ones that we've learned by talking to others in the same situation?<P>After discovery, quit snooping!<P>Quit thinking about HIM/HER in plan B - and making decisions based on what the betrayer did!<P>Thanks Chris, you are always ON TARGET.

Chris,<P>Normally in everyday situations I have the patience of a saint. Whenever I think of my W going out with someone else sharing personal time and intimate feelings with another man, I could spit nails.<P>I tip my hat, if I wore one, to anyone who could wait 2 years for a S to regain their senses. I am not one of these people.<P>I appreciate your response on my previous thread regarding divorce, but, I feel that divorce papers are the only solution that may bring W back to reality. I don't believe that I would be able physically or mentally to wait anything close to that time period. It's killing me now and it's only been 6 months since discovery.<P>Val is not even close to thinking that this is an affair. "He's just a friend". I feel in my heart that I absolutely must travel this path.<P>I am familiar with your story and certainly wish your the best. Your must be partly the Rock of Gilbralter. I can simply not do it.<P>Wishing US all the best.<P>Medic

Chris:<P>It is so great to see you post this so soon after that call with your wife. Your head is really in the right place! Good for you.<P>The "right answer" to your wife's question of why you wait, when she lives with another man and says she's happy, is what you wrote. Regardless of her current state of mind, nearly all affairs die out within 2 years of exposure and then people can evaluate what needs to be done without the convenient escape route. Of course, you can't tell her that. Furthermore, as noted in Private Lies, the differences/difficulties that exist between the affairees are intriguing during the romantic phase, but leave them completely baseless for a relationship when inevitably romance fades. Your wife and this guy have little in common, and look at her sacrifice.<P>Really, what all of us long-term waiters are saying is that our spouses are irrational during the affair and making consistently bad decisions. Nothing is more indicative of bad decision making than what your wife is doing to your kids, and my husband to mine. Even if they can't stand us, there's no need to abandon the kids. More effective arrangements can be made. To me, that is the clearest indication of their insanity and the short-term orientation of their thinking.<P>I am so proud of you.

Medic<P>Papers as a means to bring a spouse back to reality? Rethink your motives there, friend, lest they come back to bite you. If you're planning to file you'd best be certain you are ready to live with the outcome. It's one thing to file as a means of taking control of your own life, quite another to do it in an attempt to wake somebody up. A person has to find for his/herself where their own line between being a martyr and taking that control is. Granted that line lies in a different place for each of us. I don't mean to sound harsh; I'd just hate to imagine someone take that route for that reason.<P>------------------<BR>Bobbie

Not really an answer to the post but it is related. Regarding the time frames.<BR>When I found about my H's affair, I had no idea this forum existed. I found it much later when already in recovery. The interesting thing is that I followed what I see now called plan A, and decided ond a time frame of 6 months to see if I could find any signs of improvment. After the six months and depending on how things had progressed, I decided I would reasses the whole situation and decided on something like what plan B is now, or continue the way I was. This time frame made sense to me, so I followed it. I happy to see that it coincided with Dr. Harleys sugestions.<BR>Kat

Brought this back to the top for a reason.<P>Seems quite a few people here are just "waiting" for the spouse to come back and expecting miracles for following the MB principles. When it doesn't pan out & the spouse really dumps on us, then we get totally discouraged (me too, I'm not immune from pain & hurt ), then we jump up and say, "THAT'S IT, I'VE HAD IT!. It's been 4 months and I quit!" Is that all your relationship is worth? A few months (or years in some cases)? Yes there is a time to call it quits, but you gotta look at why you wanna quit. Don't overreact to an argument or a few bad words thrown at you.<P>MB principles are not designed to just "wait" for the spouse to return. We are actively looking at ourselves, our attitudes, relationship & communication skills and changing how we interact with others, not just the wayward spouse. We are not doing this solely for our spouses. We can use a bunch of the techniques with friends and family, coworkers and such, to our benefit ala' "How to Win Friends & Influence People".<P>If we do make necessary changes, then it will come back to us from others.<P>Also, while "waiting" for our spouses to wake up, please realize they may end the affair and still not return to the marriage! Really sucks, yeah, but it's a possibility. This time is used to help us adjust to this possibilty. The changes we are making are going to be very valuable in "surviving the affair".<P>Harley NEVER says these plans will save the marriage. He does say these plans WILL help us to cope with the loss and enable us to have a better relationship with ourselves and with our future partners, whether it be our current spouse, a future spouse, or future "friends".<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 17, 1999).]

I must have missed this post the first time. It is a great summary. Now if only I could actually feel like I am doing Plan A. Even though my wife and I talk almost daily it is basically about our daughter and other taking care of business things. It usually lasts under 10 minutes. I have tried to find non threatening subjects, but she does not want to talk to much all that much. K, has said she probably feels like she can't have any relationship with me other than as the Father. That makes this plan A so uncertain. Chris, I know your wife moved out, is that when you went to Plan B, or did you try long distance Plan A? And how did it go or what did you try? I have send cards letting her know I am thinking of her and that I love her. I guess what you are saying is that it needs more time. My wife's affair I guess is only about 12 weeks in. I am planning on going about 5 months in Plan A, because it is still hurting me and I almost wish I could do Plan B now, but I have been advised that I need to show more of my changes to her and be there for her in any way. Any thoughts on what else to do in plan A?

The problem I face is that when I don't see H for a while, I really start to miss him and want to go to a Plan A type deal when I'm around him. Then we are together for a bit and he starts to "let his guard down" and reverts back to being sarcastic and hateful over little things. At that point I don't want to be around him and have a Plan B in my mind until I start missing him. Then about that time he'll call and want to get together and I'm ready to see him again. Thus the cycle starts again.<P>I guess the best way to deal with it is when he starts being sarcastic and hateful, gracefully avoid talking to him etc. until the hurt feelings and resentment disappear. I have caller ID and when I'm feeling that way I don't answer phone. I figure if there is an emergency he can leave a message. Most times he just hangs up.<P>I have made my mind up I still don't want divorce. If he wants a divorce, he will have to file. I merely protected myself and my son financially by have papers drawn up to begin with.<P>Do any of you have this type of situation? In the event he ever wants a reconciliation, I will not go back without intense joint therapy to address his verbal abuse and sarcasm towards me. He also needs some individual therapy to address some issues he needs to face -- whether he moves forward with another relationship or continues the one he has with me.

This one again, hits home, Chris. <P>Thanks

Hey Chris, this wouldn't have anything to do with my post "I QUIT" , would it? <BR>Sometimes I get so discouraged, I feel like I don't even know what love is anymore ... that I wouldn't know what it was if it hit me in the face. Sometimes I feel like I just want to run away from life .... What if you do all the looking at yourself, and addressing problems etc, and It's still not enough? Can you quit then? <p>[This message has been edited by sosad (edited September 17, 1999).]

izzy, You should be learning to control your lovebusters (get the book if you don’t have it). She most likely won’t comment on the little changes you are making, but she’ll notice.<BR>I never went to Plan B. ( I think my Wife is in it now though ) I haven’t really tried anything with her, ‘cause we only talk for about 2-3 minutes a week. When she left she told me not to call her and I haven’t.<BR>Give Plan A as much time as you can! Don’t just quit at 5 months because that is the time you set. See how you feel then & go on if you can. Don’t overdo it with the cards & letters. Don’t beg her and try to smother her with love. Just let her know you’re waiting for her & point out that you are working on understanding/changing your realtionship/communication skills. Again, nothing too long.<P>Janie, Good idea that you don’t let him return unless he agrees to counseling. Him going back and forth over what he wants and the verbal abuse is going to take its toll on you and you’ll build up resentment towards him. Don’t point out that he will need counseling even if you two don’t work it out (disrespectful judgement). Don’t try to educate him.<P>sosad, I posted to you on your thread.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Brought this to the top for anyone who missed this. <P>Thanks Chris, this is a good thread.<P>TNT

You beat me to it tnt. I was gonna do it because of Nellie’s thread.

Thanks Chris,<BR>I've been gone camping for a week.... I did miss it the first time and to read it now was just perfect.... Thanks again<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

back up

Chris,<P>You're a gem! Your W sure better wise up, because you are what any woman would call A GREAT CATCH! For her sake, I hope she wakes up so that she can reap the benefits of your tremendous growth and deep insight. If not, it'll be her loss and another lucky woman's gain.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

<- Me blushing!<P>Seriously though, OF COURSE I'D BE A GREAT CATCH! LOL! I haven't been wasting the last nine months (has it been that long? Seems like only 10 years ago...). I do beleive I have learned a great deal about how to make a relationship work. Someday (hopefully before Christmas ) I'll be able to practice it with my Wife!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>