Hi All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. My weekend was spent putting up Christmas decorations, something I hadn't done before. Now maybe I can get in the Christmas shopping mood.

Avondale

You showed strength by not letting your H help you during the ice storm. He is probably still scratching his head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> And not used to you showing strength. I'm proud of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If the storm gets too bad, just jump on a plane to Southern California and we can not Christmas shop together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

You may want to catch that plane as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet

I try to be a well rounded person. During my marriage, my H spent most of his time in a recliner and I being the 'dutiful wife' wouldn't go without him. He would only go after much nagging! So, now I have no one to consult, I get my ticket and I go.

How are things with your son? Is he better at the new school?

EC

You're handling your situation well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think I would try to get younger daughter to visit you and after she realized she can have a better life instead of running here and there, changing schools, etc. She may just convince OD? What do you think? Is your YD open to visiting you for the Holidays?

RMA

Would you kindly sent some of your Holiday cheer this way and don't forget the cookies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With me... I was glad that I had not received any bad news from exW, but I hated just existing in a state of limbo... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me, it doesn't feel like limbo, my strength comes from knowing that things will happen in God's perfect timing. There are very few days that go by that I don't think of him. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I'm just plain angry. I could contact him tomorrow if I choose too. But if I haven't heard clearly from God to do this, then my H's heart would not be in the right place and it would be like opening an old wound. He's made it obvious where we stand, it's not necessary to verbalize it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He hasn't called me because he doesn't want to hear what he thinks would be my questions, nagging etc.

Little does he know, I am realizing who I am in Christ and I don't care why he left, he said enough before he left to ring in my ears for a lifetime, if I allowed it to. I could no longer be satisfied with nuggets he would throw at me to keep me 'under control'. I deserve better.

Somebody play the 'Superwoman' theme song, I feel strong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady

Well I'm back home with electricity after 4 glorious nights at the Sheraton Hotel. LOTS of cleanup to do, especially with the yard. Tree branches are everywhere! DavePR probably has it worse, because there were people from his town at my hotel...evidently even the hotels where he is in Raleigh didn't have power and it sent people here (60 miles away) just to find a room!

Wallace, if you gain weight with the flu then I hope that's one bug I don't get! Can you call directory assistance to get your OD's phone number?

EC , I agree with the others. Send a plane ticket, maybe even to each daughter separately, addressed in separate envelopes (assuming you can send them w/o ExW interfering). That way they can each decide independantly what to do. Obviously you want them both, but just in case the older one might influence the younger negatively, doing it that way may help. Or just send to YD and see what the OD says...

Relady, I will be glad to join you in SoCal...maybe that should be where the next MB reunion is, LOL.

RMA, I'm not sure of your timeline. How many holidays have you been through w/o your husband (and before you met your "guy friend")? Any words of wisdom?

Petvet , I've re-read the Tough Love posts from last year, so it appears this is also your first Christmas actually without your wife. So that makes several of us "first timers". I think this is a great group of people to go through it with. Open up and share what you're feeling, I know you're out there!

I have put up outside decorations (nothing new, I did it myself most other years too since hubby was busy playing - June and Dec. are busy musician months). But haven't quite decided on a tree yet. Hope y'all have a good week!

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Petvet,

What a thing about the couple in the park. I hatew that you have to have such frequent remninders of something so hurtful to you. Doing alot of thinking, huh? Well, introspect is a good thing I think. The holidays are really tough, Petvet, as the emphasis is so much on family. I remember how lonely and hurt I was. This will likely be a tough time for you and your son, too. Just know that no matter how bad things are this year, things will eventually get better. Look at me...I am a living example that things can and will eventually get better. We can all only pray for relady's faith. Her faith springs strength and courage in the face of pain and adversity. It only shows that if we truly put our trust in God, he will deliver us from even the most painful of situations. Petvet, you have become a dear friend. I know your "quietness" is significant. You have moved a bit further down the line in processing your grief. Methinks you are moving more into the acceptance mode. It tends to leave one feeling pretty "flat". Please know that I care very much.

relady,

You little ball of fire, you! I admire you TREMENDOUSLY fror your great faith and your great attitude. I wish I had one-half of your great trust and faith. You are truly a special person, relady. God is using you as a witness to amny people here. This may be one of those cases where something wonderful is bon from tragedy. You are reminding me of a butterfly breaking free of the cocoon. You spread your wings, little one, and fly as high as you'd like!

Wallace,

Glad you are gonna make it! Honestly, I had to crack up - Petvet really had your situation plugged! And here I was warming soup for ya. Oh well, I'll just bet you perked right up when your lady friend came to see about you! Aw...isn't it great to have someone to care so much!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale,

Ugh! I do not envy you all that cleanup. Just take a little at a time, and eventually it does all get cleared up. I have been without my exH for 4 Christmases, counting this one. The first was the very hardest. It hurt me to the very caore. I had bought and wrapped all thesde gifts for him. He came over a few days before Christmas and accepted all my gifts. I had gone to a lot of trouble - picked very thoughtful and personalized gifts. He opened them all and took them and thanked me. He gave me nothing and not evena phone call to me or the kids. He just was so uncaring. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and New Year's were the worst days of my life, other than the original discovery day. I never felt so alone or so unworthy. I really felt unworthy and worthless - my own H didn't even care. You know, somehow this was the beginning of the end of my aloneness. I asked my exH on a date a couple weeks later. We wnet to dinner and it was a huge deal to me. I shopped for a killer new outfit and we went to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse - a real fav of his. We were having a good time, and I just had this "feeling". I asked a couple questions and got the "wrong" answers. It was like that night I saw my thenH in a whole different light. I saw him as a man who was totally using me. Here he was telling me he had just bought this houseboat and the OW was moving from FL here to live with him, and here he was on a date with me! Honestly, I just saw him in a whole different light. The cheating was there all along, but something inside of me told me to walk away from this man. I do belieeve it was God telling me it was time to give it up. You know, I finally had to be the one to file for the divorce. You know, I wonder if he would have ever filed??? I think he was happy using me and her. I see it that way, and perhaps I am wrong. I finally came to see him as a person using me for his own gain and really not caring about me at all. I believe that night was the turning point and that God gave me permission to move on that night. I just felt totally different about him from that night on. Doesn't mean I didn't still hurt and didn't grieve, because I surely still did. I hope this made sense to you.

EC,

Yes, plane tickets are a great idea. I hope you can be more of an influence on your girls. I pray they keep in close contact with you.

Davepr,

How is the new job going? How are you and your W doing? You haven't really mentioned anything lately other than about the incident with the other couple. Are you two reconnecting?

Take care, all. The holidays are really tough. I just remember saying to my sons that first year that the NEXT year my holidays would be soooo much better, because I couldn't possibly feel any worse. You know what, the next year's were 1000% better.

This too shall pass....

RMA

I have just BRIEFLY scanned this thread & I am amazed! relady posted on another thread that she normally posts here cuz it's the best thread on the board. Now I know where you guys come from when you swoop down and post. I hadn't seen many posts that you orgiginated cuz y'all are here !

In the near future, I'm going to read this whole thing as it looks like there are some valuable insites here!

D.

Hi Gang,

I greet you this morning with Hot Chocolate and Bagels......

All those that are snowed in I pray that you stay encouraged things will work out. I went through that at the beginning of 2002, most of the city out for 1-2 weeks, but the people recovered can hardly tell anything happened.

Glad to see everyone preparing for the holiday and living life to its fullest...

Just to answer some questions...When exww first left in Feb 2001 knowing she was living a lie in all her A's and for the fear of my 2 D's I tried to convince them to come stay with me and told them the hard times they were about to face and that I was thinking about fighting for custody of them but they bucked and screamed and said they would not come and they wanted to be with there mom. At that time exww had already begun the brainwash, she would talk to them like she was there age, telling all her dirty work and creeping. She would make deals with them such as " If you do something that's wrong with a boy, I'll let you slide and no punishment if you don't say anything to me about what I'm doing and keep quite", After I caught exww in one of her many A's and I told OD/YD why I was crying, later she approached OD with, You remember what you did at the mall the other day? remember i'm letting that slide, remember our deal, she had them sworn to secrecy... I was fumming when I found this out...So them being 15,16 at the time there thoughts were...Why stay with Dad and risk getting in trouble while we can stay with Mom and do our own thing and get away with mom? That's why YD had boys in the house when exww went out of town and YD told me to get out, exww did nothing to YD for her actions, they agreed, no punishment.....Therefore Dad is the bad guy, mr police who's presence in the home was considered wrong according to exww.

So custody was considered at the start but they resisted and wanted to stay with there mom. YD wants to visit me, I was told by exw back in Aug or Sept OD hasn't made up her mind if she's ready, she still has anger feelings she still trying to overcome but was close, so I haven't pushed OD, so as you say YD will have to make an impression on OD.

I asked OD about her driving skills, she said she hasn't got her DL yet, nobody will teach her. I was so taken back because at the time when I was teaching her is when all Exww affairs were discovered and we stopped. We would go out just me and her and I simulated a teenagers atmosphere, I said ok, let's change the car into how it's going to be when you get down the street away from Dad and the house, so I cranked up the radio loud to her station rolled the windows down, looked for all my friends and started waving at everybody and pretended to be on a cellphone, Oh I know, bad trainer, hummm? No, I was just trying to relate with her but I showed her what accidents all those things can cause, but she had fun....After she told me nobody was available to teach her I wanted so bad to finish what we started but we're so far apart, I know she can go to a driving school but our family tradition has been you're taught by another family member and pass it down.

I try to get behind them and support there life and career issues, Exww is more interested how she can endure with OD till she become independent and live on her own while going to college ,she's also waiting for YD to get 18 and out of HS, then they're all parting ways...exw plans to move to Calif in 2004 and leave YD/OD on there own...Exw has no vision for them or concerned about there mental well being how they're going to deal with future circumstances, her focus is all on her of how she can jump into the next bed with whoever, always with the attitude of "Next"!......

I'm sure she's still sneaking and cheating, my YD asked me to get her, her own private line because exw is always on the Internet, nothing wrong with that but exw does her dirty work with it, I just can imagine all the activity, it was horrible when I was in the house. I considered getting YD her own phoneline problem with that is exw will cut the house line off and use YD's line, I'll be paying the bill, exw is sneaky, I have no trust for her.

If I get YD/OD here one time its going to make a strong impact on them because I learned and studied my kids Love language, I know what makes them feel good, what brings out the best in them, what they expect.....Example: one of OD is spending quality time, she loves to watch old movies together, ,hugs,setting the table, I was her biggest fan when she was in band. YD's is service, she loves to serve and baby you, thats why she's stuck on being a baby doctor. But she likes being served also, she loved when I would go all out for her, because she was doing the same in her own way...I miss all that from both of them...

Exw knows none of this, I tried to tell her this kinda stuff but she could care less, she says learning from a book is for the birds, thats why she continues in her ignorance and her A's this day...Thats why ALL of her relationships will end in disaster because information dealing with relationships is pure junk in her book, still don't care to learn about men and there emotional needs.

Sorry I know this post was long, guess I'm making up for lost time...Thanks Everyone for your input, oneday I'm going to have a celebration story about my kids I've only seen them both for 5 mins in 1 1/2 years....you would to be a family guy to understand the pain.

PS: I had this thought, have you ever wondered if your WS or ex was reading your post or thread and knew or didn't know it was you? Wouldn't that be something? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Good Morning All,

I hope you're all staying warm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RMA

First of all let me say thank you for your most kind words, I give all honor to God.

I didn't just arrive in my strength overnight. For the past five months, I have studied the Word and literally applied it to my life. I internalized verses that showed me who I was in Christ, when the enemy bombarded me with negative thoughts, I replaced them with the Word. Otherwise, the pain would have been unbearable. God was the only one that could help me. Through that I came to depend on Him completely. He has a way of getting us into a position where we have no where else to turn.

In my journey, I discovered the following truths:

I could call on Him in the middle of the night instead of being told, "talk to me tomorrow, go to sleep!"

I can tell Him my darkest secret and He won't save it for future reference!

He loves me unconditionally, not just when I'm looking or feeling my best.

He will never leave me or forsake me.

He encourages me to be the best that I can be, and not discourage me when I make a mistake!

I can cry and whine all day and He won't consider it a weakness.

I finally know what it means to build your foundation on a rock!

I could go on, and on but in my book it says,
God-10 H-0 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

That's funny, I thought the same thing, what if our Ws's were reading this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But, do you really think they are that smart? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless
relady

Hi Everyone,
I hope everyone has a good day today... I'm going to continue my trek into the land of shopping for Christmas presents tonight... so wish me luck.
WGTT...
Welcome to Petvet's thread! We do gather here quite frequently, and every once in awhile I'll jump out, and post something elsewhere. I have to agree with relady and echo her statement that this is one of the best threads on the boards in IMHO. How have you been doing?
relady...
"Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, no it's relady... you are truly doing super, and you are an inspiration. With the Lord at your side you can't go wrong.
We checked with directory assistance to see if they had a listing of my "OD" new telephone number and at this point they show no listing. She may have had it placed in her "BF's" name. We are still checking though.
RMA...
When your under the weather, their is nothing like a good old bowl of hot soup. Homemade chicken noodle soup... hmmmmmm... chicken noodle soup.
I'm going to have to borrow Petvet's crystal ball... it seems to work very well.
Petvet...
As much as I'm dreading going through this Christmas... I have decided to put on a happy face and grin and bear it. I'll let you know how I'm making out.
avondale and Dave...
Hope you don't have too much of a mess to clean up. I don't envy you... I have had to deal with that before.
EC...
Did you give that any thought, as far as paying the airfare to have your "YD" and "OD" come out and visit with you?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi All,

Wallace - Mr Loverboy, hummm, warm soup from warm hands, hummm?...Feelings starting to heat up hummm? Wallace are you being sweet on her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you sly dog you..I'm happy for you.....I plan to send YD/OD plane tickets this spring.

Relady, You're right about are WS's able to read our post and understand...As my exw said to my sister "You mind your own business you big bunch of gossipers!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I cooked a turkey last night, it almost turned into a crispy critter, its been awile. I pulled out a cookbook later and looked at all the pictures and my mouth watered,I said oohwee! I can have this and this and that, then I looked at the ingredients and work involved and said Oh well maybe next year closed the book pulled out the hotdogs, I guess if I get married at least she'll have a cookbook waiting on her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll just stick to the Bar-B-que grill, each time I cook outside the neighboors push there faces against the glass, I turn around and look and they close the curtain only to return when I go back in the house, thats because it smells so good.

Hi Petvet,RMA,Dave,Avondale,Relady,Wallace and our new guest WGTT.

Wallace I am doing very well considering the circumstances. Reading others posting in dispair makes me realize that I am in a good place. Actually I am seriously considering filing for DV. (After the Holidays) Originally it was cuz Steve H suggested it based on WH's activities but I'm feeling more and more that it's for me. Bramble Rose talks about the peace she felt the 2nd time she filed for dv. That is where I am right now. Alanon is really helping me (only took me 17 years to get this program and that it is for me) Life is getting exciting again, there are things that I look forward to and when I do things I have fun living in the moment. God is good.

Also comments on GQII about recent Dr Phil show saying that if you will never trust him/her then be honest and move on. For me to trust would take action and time on the part of WH. He still is in heavy fog and denial. It's hard to let go for lots of reasons, and I am working on the ones I can change and really praying about the situation.

To all the rest on this thread, I havn't gone back to read even the recent postings to get a feel for where everyone is at the moment.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

Hi all!

Avondale: I can't believe how bad that storm was. That was a smart thing for you to stay in the hotel for a couple of days. Going forward, you may want to consider options for getting things done around the house in case of emergencies or just regular house stuff.

Wallace: I hope you are doing much better. It's a good feeling to know that you have someone who cares about you. I think I am coming down with something.

EC: Based on what you have said, with your daugthers age, the problems may fix themselves once they become of age, but I would recommend what someone else said earlier about inviting them to visit you and show them what it's like to live in a good environment; maybe, they will want to live with you.

RMA: Thanks for your kind words. I am going to get through this stuff. I'm still talking on the phone with the buddy. It is good to have a good conversation with someone of the opposite gender. I have to put this D mess behind me. I am seriously thinking about going to the Sugar Bowl to see my Bulldogs. I need to start planning for the holidays now. I cannot bare spending the holidays alone again. I may take kid out of town. I may take him to the Sugar Bowl with me.

Relady: California,uh! Cold weather, warm weather, hmmmmmm? I hate cold weather. California here I come! Here in the city to busy to hate, we just missed that ice storm that hit the Carolinas and NE.

Has everyone decided what they are going to do over the holidays? Let everyone start thinking about the holidays, so that none of us are alone and feeling pitiful for ourselves.

Later.

Hello,

I read the last few pages of this thread and have a better idea of EC & his story. I cracked up when I read that you were put in jail for praying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It's sounds as if xww & kids used to live in Jax. Did you live there too? My OS lives there & I visit from time to time. I am headed to Jax then up 95 to Penna for the Holidays. If you need me to check on anything I will. Xww & kids must have moved further north & not liking the cold!

I live in Fl & WH moved 1200 miles from home. MY D is 16. d's friend (parents are DV & lives with her dad now) is always over at our house & she calls me mommy2. I think that as your D's get older and have more contact with you that they will have more insite as to what they really mean to you.

D.

Good morning everyone,
WGTT...
I read your post about your "YD" being in the "ER".
Sometimes the effects that a "D" or soon to be "D" can lead children to do some things that they normally would never ever consider. It can and does have as much of a crippling effect on them as it does us.
If your "YD" is open to it, I would try to get her into see an "IC" if she is not all ready seeing one. Try and find out what her feelings at this point truly are... I'm sure she is feeling just as bad as we all are when all of this wonderfulness rears it's ugly head.
((((((WGTT)))))
Prayers for you and your "YD".
EC...
Glad to hear that your going to get your daughters some plane tickets to come and visit with you. I believe it's a great first step in rebuilding your relationship with your girls.
"Hot soup"! Get your "Hot soup here"! Hmmmmm... soup... LOL.
You cracked me up... Sly Dog? LOL... I am however starting to take a keen interest in my "lady friend". There is nothing like tender loving care when your down with the flu bug. "Hot chicken noodle soup"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Petvet...
RMA was getting ready to break out the soup for me when I was going down. I'm sure she could make a very tasty bowl of "hot chicken noodle soup" for you as well.
Personally, I think when we are stressed (especially during the holiday season) it lowers our resistance to all the viruses that are out there. Being around many different people (shopping malls, etc.) doesn't help either.
Hope you start feeling better, get yourself some "hot soup" (worked wonders for me).
CHRISTMAS SHOPPING UPDATE: It didn't go well last night at all. I am going to attempt it again tonight.
relady...
I'm not too concerned about my exW reading any of my posts. I don't think she would take the time... she is too busy playing the "party girl", I'm sure.
avondale and Dave...
Hope you don't have too much of a clean-up to deal with. Let us know how you are making out.
RMA...
I think we are going to need some soup for Petvet.
Hope you all have a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi All

Hope everyone is staying warm where its cold and those where its hot staying cool.

WGTT - When we were married we stayed in Polk County (Central FL) for 5 years it was always warm, I'm back in Mo now. Exw and kids just moved to Jax...It gets cold at night this time of year thats new territory. I don't have anything for you to drop off or do, I don't even know where they live but thanks for the offer. I only have a Po Box in OD name and a Yahoo phone number to reach them so far, thats all exw will give me at this time, I have no restraint or no contact order issues going on, her OM is the dividing line between us....At this point if she had a new guy I'd be more than happy to meet him and befriend him, she's not obligated to me, thats his boatload of problems to deal with now.

Growing up I always had this fear about being behind bars, I never been in a police car or handcuffs, so while in the police car I didn't know what to expect but I knew the Lord was with me. What was interesting was the officer was sorry I was going to jail he said he was in the middle of a Dv because his WW was cheating on him, so he was trying to be nice but obey the law to. On my way to the jail I said this ride is no fun the handcuffs hurt, he said ok hang on I'll hurry so he floored the pedal to about 90-100 we got there quick. I had those thoughts of eating bread and water in a dark wet cell, only to get there in a bright cold concrete cell had to sleep on the floor no pillow or blanket 20 people in there. At first they all were telling jokes and laughing then they went around the room and asked what everybody was there for? My turn came and I mumbled my reason, they said what because you prayed? they said no way, then they all laughed? That was the first time, then it happened again in the large cell in the bed area about 80 people, I was there only 1 day that was enough. I remember this one guy was so down he stayed in bed wouldn't eat breakfast lunch or dinner, everybody would grab the food off his plate coming from all cells around if he said he wasn't eating, it was like a feeding frenzy....I marvelled at the activity...some guys been there for months...

Despite it all some miracle moments took place, I count it all joy, I walked out of there victorious! One Miracle was I called the bondsmen he came in 30 min. The guys marvelled because some been there for 2-5 days before there's responded on top of that I had no money, only my word, God moved for me. Paid the bondsmen 2 weeks later. I knew I was passing through but I was glad to see the oppression people go through there.

Hello,

Can you believe it's only 2 weeks to Christmas!?! D and I walked this afternoon & she asked if I had any presents yet. I have a few bought & most of the rest figured out - except WH. I'm not sure what to get him. Lately, I have taken old pictures that were in his family & had them framed or something special done to them.

This year, I just don't feel like doing it, yet I know I will do something. Someone on another thread suggested a cemetary plot but thats not in my plan.

Wallace I/C is not covered by insurance so I am looking for an alateen group. Tonight I go to Alanon so I will ask about it. Thanks for the concern. She's pretty good at talking to me about her feelings. I think cuz WH was just home over Thanksgiving something he said got to her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

EC Just know that if you ever need anything in Jax, my OS lives there & would help out in a heartbeat. I really like Jax & will be there next week for a short visit. We are going down to St Augustine to see the Christmas lights.

That is unreal about the bail bondsman, then again God is good. It never ceases to amaze me the things that God pulls off.

D.

Hi all!

WGTT: I have heard about Analon by name? I know it's some sort of counseling center. What does it specialize in? Saint Augustine is my favorite city. I was just there last summer. I would love to have a second home there.

Wallace: I think I am going to do most of my shopping on the internet. I hate the crowds. I am feeling better, but my energy level has been down lately. I hate cold weather. I'm tired of my life
being on hold.

EC: Try this: Tell your daughters that you are coming during the holidays to visit them? If you stay at a hotel, they can come to visit you there without you knowing where they live, but at least you can see them. Even if you went for a weekend, I know they would be happy to see you. If you ex prevents them from seeing you, that would be further grounds for you to get custody of them. What do you think?

Later.

Hi Y'all
We still have snow on the ground, making some yard clean up difficult. I filed my insurance claim today for all the lost food from freezer & fridge, totalled almost $500! My deductible for that is $100 so I should make out OK. Will file claim on trees later on.

I've started Christmas shopping a little bit. Wasn't sure what to get WH but I am thinking of something not personal, like baking bread or something. I feel that if I didn't do anything, that would be wrong (since we're not divorced yet), but also that anything I put thought into would not be appropriate under the circumstances either. So bread is something I'd make for acquaintances but not people who are close to me. WGTT , your idea about family pics is a good one. Maybe that would give him a subtle message about family, legacy, etc...

EC , I like Petvet 's idea about staying in a hotel and seeing if your girls would visit you there. It's a non-threatening environment. Could you handle that even if they chose to not visit you there, or would that be hard emotionally?

Wallace , what are you going to get your lady friend for Christmas? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My daughter wants me to go w/her and her husband to visit his family 4 hrs away Dec. 24-26. (Remember, its their first Christmas together.) She and I are dancing around the issue of the holidays and where/when to spend it and with whom. I don't want to go with them; I'd feel like the "odd man out" and feel they were all pitying me anyway (in a nice way). This will be the last holiday with my dad in the house I grew up in before he moves to SC in the spring. And I don't want to leave him alone since there are no other relatives on our side of the family. So I think I'll stay here with him and just miss both my kids. I know she's torn because she wants to be with us too, after all we've gone through this year. I'm glad she has a new family to interact with, though. I think this is one of those sacrifices parents have to make for their kids. We both definitely don't want to be around her father or his family, even though they have invited us to their usual Christmas Eve family event.

Hi All,

I hope you're all having a wonderful day. I brought a few Christmas gifts yesterday, purely out of obligation!

Check out this dream I had last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> :

My H I were going away for the weekend, but after he consulted with friends, he decided he wanted to go alone. At this point I almost reverted back to my clingy, whiney self!(yes, even in a dream) I could see the same look of disgust on his face as he always did when he was preparing for my tears. Then all of a sudden I said, "If you leave, take your stuff and don't come back. His look turned to surprise and with that I turned, clicked my heels and went back into the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then I woke up! I sure did feel good!/B]
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I choose to believe that God is showing me that I am becoming stronger, and that He is truly trading my weakness for strength.

[B]Avondale

You are very kind to think of a present for your H. I'm not going to even send a card! But you two have a lot of history together. Do you think he'll do the same?

EC,

That is a great idea to visit your D's. Would your stbx allow them to tell you where they are? Teenagers are so strange, why would they want to stay one step ahead of the police with her when they know they could be safe with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

Oh yeah, RULES

Wallace

Just a 'keen interest' in your lady friend, ha, ha, ha. LOL

Davepr, Rma, EC, WGTT

Hope all is well with you.

God Bless,
relady

Hi Gang!

Petvet, Avondale, Relady,

I had thought about visiting OD/YD months ago but at the same time they weren't communicating, so that wasn't possible. Only until now have they both started opening up a little more. Meeting them at a Hotel is a good idea if I did go. I can't go for christmas since time is so short maybe in coming weeks or months. I'm sending them a computer for Christmas so that should tear down some walls also. They're slowly coming out of exw's influence so things are looking better. How much they see, I don't know, but they must see something.

I would like for OD to come here for her 19th B-day in Feb to have a big party but we'll see.

Take Care

Hi All,

Well I went Christmas shopping last night... eck!
My "lady friend wanted to go with me,and I thought it might be nice to have her go and we could Christmas shop together.

Well while we were in the Mall, a song started playing (background music). I didn't really take notice of this song that was playing, but all of a sudden... she started crying.
The song evidently was a trigger for her, and she had a very hard time of it. She said she was sorry for becoming so emotional.
I tried to comfort her as best I could... but all of a sudden, I started thinking about my exW, and I started having triggers go off as well.
Long story short... I took her home, and called her this morning and told her that I thought we should stop seeing each other since we were still emotional wrecks (I didn't actually say it that way, but in so many words) and she started crying, and said she didn't want to stop seeing me.
Well my walls are back up again, way up... and I'm still trying to sort this all out in my mind. I know I need to continue moving forward, but last night just shook me. I'm not sure if I should continue seeing her, or if I should just put some space in between us (which she said she would give me space if I wanted it) and maybe let the holidays pass by and try it again.
Anyone have any advice on this one?

I told her I was having a hard time dealing with the holidays and she accepted it, but then she starts breaking down... I'm not sure who is in worse shape at the moment her, or me.

O.K., now that I got that out there... I'm sending my exW a contempt of court motion for CS for Christmas... bread would be out of the question from my end. I wouldn't know where to deliver it anyway.

EC...

I think what you may be planning for your daughter's birthday would be a great move.

Computer for Christmas? That's a nice Christmas present.

In time... if your exW continues in the mode she is, your daughters will eventually see her for what she is truly worth. It took my kids awhile, but they figured it out. Give it some time... it will work itself out.

avondale...

As you can see, bread or anything thereof is out of the question for a Christmas present for my exW. Your situation is however different than mine, and I think it's a nice gesture by you that your willing to give him a Christmas gift.

Is he getting you or your children anything for Christmas?

Does your daughter know how you feel (being the fifth wheel) as far as Christmas goes?

How much clean-up do you still have to do?

relady...

That was quite the dream... I've had a few like that. Haven't had any recently though.

I do believe that through adversity the Lord does indeed give us the strength we need to improve ourselves. I know I've come a long way... sounds like you have too.

I'm not sure if I'm keen on my lady friend or what at this stage. It's a crap shoot at this point.
I have heard that the first relationship that you have is usually a throw away relationship... they don't work or last... but I don't know how true that is. It's starting to appear that way. Of course it's not what I had intended.

Petvet...

Are you getting into the Holiday spirit or are you having as much trouble with it as I am? I know I can't wait for this to be over with... it's a bad time of year for me. Too many triggers.

Dave...

Hope your damage isn't as bad as what I had seen on the TV. let us know how your making out when you get time.

RMA...

Are you ready for Christmas? I may need that soup in the not to distant future if you still have it.

WGTT...

have you had a chance to read anymore on this thread? I hope your doing well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Wallace,

Man what an ordeal (triggers)......I appeciate your honesty to share you're personal experience with us...In looking at what you said, I just wonder if she has given herself enough time to be single and heal? and is this to deep of a level relationship for you right now?

If she was overwhelmed by emotions, was it because she is still in love with her ex or was it the pain of the loss...

A song has never affected me to remind me of my exw only the holidays...so I consider that normal...if I was affected by a song I would examine what was I feeling love or loss?

If she is feeling love still for her ex then she could be in a rebound with you. I'm sorry I forgot but how long has she been DV'd? I know people can be seperated for years before divorce..

The only thing I would be concerned about as I said before is she is meeting your needs now, you are meeting her needs now, people change and grow over time, will you both not need each other later the way you see each other now? Will you meet someone else after you realize you are still single and decide not to date seclusive? did both of you give each other time to explore life a little before getting somewhat serious?

Just my thoughts...Keep the faith.